Horse Racing questions and answers

[str]

Some prominent track operators own the betting platforms used by CAW players, with The Stronach Group and the New York Racing Association owning one such company, Elite Turf Club, and Churchill Downs Inc. owning another known as Velocity. A Sept. 5, 2024, document outlining Elite Turf Club for the California Horse Racing Board said TSG owns 80% of Elite and NYRA 20%. Elite Turf Club is responsible for the bulk of CAW play on California racing, while Velocity is primarily focused on CDI-owned tracks.

Speaking last summer before the CHRB, Scott Daruty, president of TSG's Monarch Content Management and Elite Turf Club, acknowledged that the effectiveness of CAW teams raises the effective takeout for retail players. The aforementioned 2024 document estimated Elite's wagering results in a 2.5% increase in effective takeout for retail players.

Yes. It does. And while they have every right to be able to bet that money, the other 80% of the handle should have more consideration than the CAW’s IMO.

[str]

CAW teams bet vast sums of money—accounting for 20% or more of the handle at some racetracks. Usually, CAW wagers are sent in the final moments before a race's start through sophisticated wagering technologies. Sometimes the amounts of money wagered and the timing of those wagers results in dramatic odds changes. The information on those odds changes often isn't fully available until after the gates open.

It really is unfair to the public IMO. At least with two minutes, some fans will have a chance to adjust their plays.

[str]

Hey STR: Did you hear that Del Mar decided to shut down computerized whale wagering 2 minutes till post. on win bets. I guess they were receiving some complaints from regular betting folk on the fluctuations of the odds late. what do you know if anything about CAW's.

I would hope that every jurisdiction would follow this. Fans just cannot be expected to have this stuff take place. It is totally unacceptable in my book.

[Easy-Rider 66]

Some prominent track operators own the betting platforms used by CAW players, with The Stronach Group and the New York Racing Association owning one such company, Elite Turf Club, and Churchill Downs Inc. owning another known as Velocity. A Sept. 5, 2024, document outlining Elite Turf Club for the California Horse Racing Board said TSG owns 80% of Elite and NYRA 20%. Elite Turf Club is responsible for the bulk of CAW play on California racing, while Velocity is primarily focused on CDI-owned tracks.

Speaking last summer before the CHRB, Scott Daruty, president of TSG's Monarch Content Management and Elite Turf Club, acknowledged that the effectiveness of CAW teams raises the effective takeout for retail players. The aforementioned 2024 document estimated Elite's wagering results in a 2.5% increase in effective takeout for retail players.

[Easy-Rider 66]

CAW teams bet vast sums of money—accounting for 20% or more of the handle at some racetracks. Usually, CAW wagers are sent in the final moments before a race's start through sophisticated wagering technologies. Sometimes the amounts of money wagered and the timing of those wagers results in dramatic odds changes. The information on those odds changes often isn't fully available until after the gates open.

[Easy-Rider 66]

Hey STR: Did you hear that Del Mar decided to shut down computerized whale wagering 2 minutes till post. on win bets. I guess they were receiving some complaints from regular betting folk on the fluctuations of the odds late. what do you know if anything about CAW's.

[JBEX]

only two of the tracks going .. posted lone entry

[JBEX]

results for today and entries for tomorrow posted

[JBEX]

parx 11 scratched

[JBEX]

previous weeks

10959/10994/10999/11026/11063/11108/11134


week 8 .. 8/18-8/24

opening day sar to last day dmr (mid sept)
ARMY MULE progeny at ...

saratoga/del mar/monmouth/ellis/colonial

monday and tuesday will look at all tracks ..weds to sunday the 5 above

everything for this week will be in this post
will be a notification when I post




8/18 monday ****

parx 9 (4:18)
#1 amy mule (15-1)
4th @ 12-1 .. 11 horse field

parx 11 (5:14)
#5 mission first (10-1)
scratched

prarie meadows 10 (8:51)
#2 come on mulitch (10-1)
3rd @ 3-2 .. 5 horse field w/ 2 scratches


8/19 tuesday ****

parx 1 (12:40)
#10 forward move (8-1)
last @ 17-1 ..never involved at any point

parx 12 (5:41)
#8 mission first (8-1)
out @ 6-1

8/20 wednesday ****

colonial 3 @ 1:28
#1 splash of jack (8-1)


forwarded next page

[batt33]

I think they are out of touch with the customer base. Sad.

well not the result I wanted..... a bunch a little quicker out of the gate.....

[JBEX]

nothing sunday .. today's results posted 11134

[JBEX]

“It’s Our Time”

Saratoga first time starter.

That might be the most impressive first start by any 2 year old horse I have ever seen.

That time and the way he did it was unbelievable .

crushed them with ease

[batt33]

“It’s Our Time”

Saratoga first time starter.

That might be the most impressive first start by any 2 year old horse I have ever seen.

That time and the way he did it was unbelievable .

Yes it was !

[str]

“It’s Our Time”

Saratoga first time starter.

That might be the most impressive first start by any 2 year old horse I have ever seen.

That time and the way he did it was unbelievable .

[batt33]

I will get to previous posts for sure.

Just wanted to say one thing:

If the NY stewards don’t get their heads screwed on right quickly, and I’m being kind, this stuff they have decided to allow to happen leaving the gate at Saratoga will end tragically.

For Gods sake, what the hell is going on up there !

Dad and I watched and wondered why the stewards didn't even look at the 7th race( I believe) yesterday .. or at least put the sign up...

[str]

I will get to previous posts for sure.

Just wanted to say one thing:

If the NY stewards don’t get their heads screwed on right quickly, and I’m being kind, this stuff they have decided to allow to happen leaving the gate at Saratoga will end tragically.

For Gods sake, what the hell is going on up there !

[JBEX]

added saturday's .. army mule

post 11134

[batt33]

Have a horse in the 9th race on Sunday at saratoga.... won his maiden race impressively last fall .... shut down for the winter ( pretty much a turf only horse. )He started getting back into training and then needed the tie back surgery( STR and I chatted about the surgery in earlier post... because another horse that I was involved with had it... well she moved on to better things!) so any way here we go!

Real Savvy Race Overview

Real Savvy makes his return to the races in the ninth race on Sunday, Aug. 17 at Saratoga. He’ll be the #5 among a full field of 10. Miguel Clement has tabbed rider Flavien Prat, who piloted your son of Authentic to his maiden-breaking victory last fall. Post time is 5:45 p.m. ET.

Real Savvy will be making his first start of the year, as well as his first since having throat surgery. Up to this point, all indications suggest that the procedure has been successful. He stacks up well with this bunch, especially if he can take the step forward from his freshman to sophomore year. Best of luck to all owners.



More on the competition:

#1 Zapruder: A 5-year-old gelding who has spent much of his career thus far in the claiming ranks . He will be making his first start for the Todd Pletcher barn, which typically does not get many new additions that look like this guy.

#2 Annexperience: Was an open-length winner last time out as he stretched out to two turns and earned a 90 Beyer for the effort. Will be facing winners for the first time in this spot.

#3 Detail Oriented: Not much turf pedigree for this colt, but they will give him a go in this spot. Was eased last time out in an off-the-turf event at this same level.

#4 Just for Luck: Has been competitive against open company and will get a touch of class relief as he switches to state-bred company for this race. A deep closer who will need some pace to close in to.

#6 The Paddock Pastor: Gets back in against state-bred company where he has been competitive in prior starts. Runs back fairly quickly here off of a fading effort going 1 3/8 miles.

#7 Van Vollenhoven: Won an off-the-turf maiden event two back before posting a runner-up finish in another rained-off race at this level. Will try to get back to the lawn here where he has only ran over on on occasion. Figures will need to improve for this one to be a factor.

#8 Li’l Lang: Will go two turns on the turf for the first time. He should appreciate the added ground and has run well at this level in multiple previous occasions.

#9 Royal Browne: Will have to send to the lead from this outside post. Steps up from the claiming ranks into allowance company for this race. Looks to be up against it in here.

#10 Sounds Like a Plan: Another who will likely attempt to send to the lead from this outside post. Was loose on the lead against state-bred stakes company last time out where he was caught late finishing third. Looks to be a stakes-caliber horse, but has a very tough draw in this race.

[Pigpen]

I think they are out of touch with the customer base. Sad.

[JBEX]

1 army mule today .. 11134

[batt33]

Did you guys see the race over the weekend at Saratoga where they ran a race at a mile and a sixteenth that was carded for a mile and one eighth? They put the gate in the wrong starting position. I had no skin in the race but if I would have had the 10 on the nose I would be pissed.

I missed that also... and for it to fly under the radar.... well.... the industry struggles enough now days as it is.... and then this happens

[Pigpen]

Also, you are correct this should have been corrected before the start. I went back to watch a replay of Saratoga Live and they never brought it up before or after the race. It is not their job but I would think they were watching the splits and the final time. Nothing.

[Pigpen]

I saw that. The reaction from what I’ve seen is pretty odd IMO. Apparently this is the 3rd time it has happened in NY in the last decade or less.
I find that mind blowing!
I don’t know who’s fault this is but I was told that the head Steward has been there for all three incidents.
That is not at all cool.

I do not recall that ever happening while I was training. So whose fault is it?

Well the job to get this correct must lie first and foremost with the Starter. He runs the gate crew . Now, along the way there are many other people that have a duty to notice this IMO. Among the top people after the starter would be the Stewards. Don’t they glance down with about 4-5 minutes to post and see where it has been placed ? Next the patrol judges who are stationed around the track at various spots. They are there to patrol and view the running of the race. Honestly, the jocks could notice it but they are in sync at that point with their horse and it is not their job.

So far it IS the starters job and the Stewards job. Next for me are the trainers. I mean, what the heck are they looking for pre race other than their horse and the setting of the gate ? Game time starts for the trainer when the horse is walking over pre race. That is how I was taught and that is where all my attention was focused on.
Even the grooms. They have no responsibility but aren’t they paying attention to their horse?

The list thins out from there but that should be more than enough eyes and attention to notice the mistake prior to the race starting.

But had anyone fans included, noticed this all they had to do was tell a guard, employee or whoever. Even tell the mutual people taking bets. They all have radios that can relay info to the Stewards within 15 seconds if necessary.

Honestly I am blown away by this happening 3 times in recent years in NY. It is beyond belief in my book.

To make things worse, NY has done or said very little to explain what happened. They had 2 stewards on with Andy Serling to explain to the viewers that it is inexcusable and basically took blame. But… where was the head Steward who has been the head Steward for all 3 of these blunders? Nowhere to be seen or heard of. THAT is not at all good.

Its one thing to make the mistake and another to make the race official and pay out the prices leaving no recourse for refunding the tickets .

it is mistake after mistake and a head Steward nowhere to be found. It’s a real bad look.

Safe to say that NY made matters worse by their actions immediately following the incident.

I think NY racing has taken a bad mistake and turned it into something bigger than it is.
IMO they have really screwed up. The most important entity that a racetrack has is its fan base. You lose that trust and you have a real problem far larger than a gate placement. That’s my take.

NYRA just sticks it to their customers and says oops, and we move on. This is one of many reasons the industry is losing customers and gaining very few.

[str]

Did you guys see the race over the weekend at Saratoga where they ran a race at a mile and a sixteenth that was carded for a mile and one eighth? They put the gate in the wrong starting position. I had no skin in the race but if I would have had the 10 on the nose I would be pissed.

I saw that. The reaction from what I’ve seen is pretty odd IMO. Apparently this is the 3rd time it has happened in NY in the last decade or less.
I find that mind blowing!
I don’t know who’s fault this is but I was told that the head Steward has been there for all three incidents.
That is not at all cool.

I do not recall that ever happening while I was training. So whose fault is it?

Well the job to get this correct must lie first and foremost with the Starter. He runs the gate crew . Now, along the way there are many other people that have a duty to notice this IMO. Among the top people after the starter would be the Stewards. Don’t they glance down with about 4-5 minutes to post and see where it has been placed ? Next the patrol judges who are stationed around the track at various spots. They are there to patrol and view the running of the race. Honestly, the jocks could notice it but they are in sync at that point with their horse and it is not their job.

So far it IS the starters job and the Stewards job. Next for me are the trainers. I mean, what the heck are they looking for pre race other than their horse and the setting of the gate ? Game time starts for the trainer when the horse is walking over pre race. That is how I was taught and that is where all my attention was focused on.
Even the grooms. They have no responsibility but aren’t they paying attention to their horse?

The list thins out from there but that should be more than enough eyes and attention to notice the mistake prior to the race starting.

But had anyone fans included, noticed this all they had to do was tell a guard, employee or whoever. Even tell the mutual people taking bets. They all have radios that can relay info to the Stewards within 15 seconds if necessary.

Honestly I am blown away by this happening 3 times in recent years in NY. It is beyond belief in my book.

To make things worse, NY has done or said very little to explain what happened. They had 2 stewards on with Andy Serling to explain to the viewers that it is inexcusable and basically took blame. But… where was the head Steward who has been the head Steward for all 3 of these blunders? Nowhere to be seen or heard of. THAT is not at all good.

Its one thing to make the mistake and another to make the race official and pay out the prices leaving no recourse for refunding the tickets .

it is mistake after mistake and a head Steward nowhere to be found. It’s a real bad look.

Safe to say that NY made matters worse by their actions immediately following the incident.

I think NY racing has taken a bad mistake and turned it into something bigger than it is.
IMO they have really screwed up. The most important entity that a racetrack has is its fan base. You lose that trust and you have a real problem far larger than a gate placement. That’s my take.

[JBEX]

just one AM today (11134)

[JBEX]

Did you guys see the race over the weekend at Saratoga where they ran a race at a mile and a sixteenth that was carded for a mile and one eighth? They put the gate in the wrong starting position. I had no skin in the race but if I would have had the 10 on the nose I would be pissed.

I missed it pigpen .. can certainly understand a bettor being annoyed at that..kind of surprised a jockey wouldn't realize that or maybe they did and figured too late to change things now

[JBEX]

It was a shame EZ but the vast majority of trainers there were as honest as the day is long. I was young enough to be able to have a choice. Many did not .

I want to emphasize that I don’t want anyone to feel bad for me. As tough as that was to deal with, I would not have traded one minute of any of it. I was so incredibly fortunate to be able to learn and participate in, a game that I loved. I learned more than I could possibly have imagined during my time there. I met a million people including some of my heroes. I met Friggin Mickey Mantle!!! My hero growing up. I mean… WHAT???
So many of the things I learned I took with me into the building business. And the added time I was able to spend with my kids has been a gift. I even got to coach my youngest son for his high school years and a county travel team through high school.
That extra family time still exists and is now into grandchildren ranging from 9-22. My life has been fabulous.
My incredible wife of 45 years not including high school and before we got married is the greatest. And the friends I made along the way at the track still exist today with both men and women. Some of those friends I still stay in touch with more so than others but it’s all special. A few of them, a true gift to have as friends.
And of course, those that read this thread , it is because of the track. So everything is as good as it gets for me.
No regrets, and so lucky to have won the races I did and been part of the game that I found when I really needed something to focus on. I mean seriously, the youngest trainer to ever win a trainers title in Md. in at least the last 60 years ? Who knows before then.
And only 6 1/2 years removed from my first day as the greenest hot walker to ever be on the backside. That’s stuff you just can’t make up.

So all good here EZ. No doubt about it.

Thanks my friend. Now let’s pick a winner.

although the reason you decided to give it up is unfortunate it certainly seems to have worked out well for you ..to be able to spend many years doing something you love but ultimately wind up doing something that is more practical and family friendly is the best of both worlds.. to have gained skills carried forward ,made many lifelong friends , had the opportunity to learn from someone who is a master of his craft and have success with it so early on in your life I'd be very happy with all those things

[Pigpen]

Did you guys see the race over the weekend at Saratoga where they ran a race at a mile and a sixteenth that was carded for a mile and one eighth? They put the gate in the wrong starting position. I had no skin in the race but if I would have had the 10 on the nose I would be pissed.

[batt33]

It was a shame EZ but the vast majority of trainers there were as honest as the day is long. I was young enough to be able to have a choice. Many did not .

I want to emphasize that I don’t want anyone to feel bad for me. As tough as that was to deal with, I would not have traded one minute of any of it. I was so incredibly fortunate to be able to learn and participate in, a game that I loved. I learned more than I could possibly have imagined during my time there. I met a million people including some of my heroes. I met Friggin Mickey Mantle!!! My hero growing up. I mean… WHAT???
So many of the things I learned I took with me into the building business. And the added time I was able to spend with my kids has been a gift. I even got to coach my youngest son for his high school years and a county travel team through high school.
That extra family time still exists and is now into grandchildren ranging from 9-22. My life has been fabulous.
My incredible wife of 45 years not including high school and before we got married is the greatest. And the friends I made along the way at the track still exist today with both men and women. Some of those friends I still stay in touch with more so than others but it’s all special. A few of them, a true gift to have as friends.
And of course, those that read this thread , it is because of the track. So everything is as good as it gets for me.
No regrets, and so lucky to have won the races I did and been part of the game that I found when I really needed something to focus on. I mean seriously, the youngest trainer to ever win a trainers title in Md. in at least the last 60 years ? Who knows before then.
And only 6 1/2 years removed from my first day as the greenest hot walker to ever be on the backside. That’s stuff you just can’t make up.

So all good here EZ. No doubt about it

Thanks my friend. Now let’s pick a winner.

Thats pretty cool STR! you made me chuckle about being the "greenest hotwalker" brings back good times for me as I was that person..... but so many people in the barn watching out for me....." shake the shank shake the shank!!!"

[Easy-Rider 66]

^ Good deal STR. I am glad you can see the positives of your time spent as a trainer and beyond. THX for your insights here in this thread as well. The fact that you give free advice to people you never have met speaks volumes. Stay safe

[str]

sorry to read that STR. It's a shame that an honest trainer like you was at a competitive disadvantage. I guess when there is $$$ involved shady things can and do go on. THX

It was a shame EZ but the vast majority of trainers there were as honest as the day is long. I was young enough to be able to have a choice. Many did not .

I want to emphasize that I don’t want anyone to feel bad for me. As tough as that was to deal with, I would not have traded one minute of any of it. I was so incredibly fortunate to be able to learn and participate in, a game that I loved. I learned more than I could possibly have imagined during my time there. I met a million people including some of my heroes. I met Friggin Mickey Mantle!!! My hero growing up. I mean… WHAT???
So many of the things I learned I took with me into the building business. And the added time I was able to spend with my kids has been a gift. I even got to coach my youngest son for his high school years and a county travel team through high school.
That extra family time still exists and is now into grandchildren ranging from 9-22. My life has been fabulous.
My incredible wife of 45 years not including high school and before we got married is the greatest. And the friends I made along the way at the track still exist today with both men and women. Some of those friends I still stay in touch with more so than others but it’s all special. A few of them, a true gift to have as friends.
And of course, those that read this thread , it is because of the track. So everything is as good as it gets for me.
No regrets, and so lucky to have won the races I did and been part of the game that I found when I really needed something to focus on. I mean seriously, the youngest trainer to ever win a trainers title in Md. in at least the last 60 years ? Who knows before then.
And only 6 1/2 years removed from my first day as the greenest hot walker to ever be on the backside. That’s stuff you just can’t make up.

So all good here EZ. No doubt about it.

Thanks my friend. Now let’s pick a winner.

[JBEX]

posted tuesday's result .. nothing weds

[JBEX]

put up tuesday's entry and today's results

[JBEX]

previous weeks

10959/10994/10999/11026/11063/11108


week 7 .. 8/11-8/17

opening day sar to last day dmr (mid sept)
ARMY MULE progeny at ...

saratoga/del mar/monmouth/ellis/colonial

monday and tuesday will look at all tracks ..weds to sunday the 5 above

everything for this week will be in this post
will be a notification when I post



8/11 monday ****

drought (entries) is over

ellis 6 @ 3:12
#2 wonder of you (10-1)
out @ 11-1

finger lakes 6 @ 3:25
#5 trojan mule (8-1)
WON $15.20


8/12 tuesday ****

fairmount 7 @ 5pm
#8 alto rd (6-1)
out @ 2-1

8/13 wednesday ****

nothing

8/14 thursday ****

colonial 1 @ 12:30
#4 colonel tully (6-1)
3rd @ 5-1 .. < 1 length off winner


8/15 friday ****

prarie meadows 10 @ 10:52 .. 2yo stakes
#2 double l's army (6-1)
scratched


8/16 saturday ****


saratoga 1 @ 12:35
#2 airborne elite (9-2)
out @ 5-1

ellis 3 @ 1:48
#4 brooklyn drew (7-2)
out @ 9-5

monmouth 8 @ 4:15
#5 ceepeegee (10-1)
out @ 10-1

8/17 sunday ****

nothing