Horse Racing questions and answers

[str]

In case you folks wonder if horses know it’s game time.

https://www.facebook.com/share/r/1Cz2Qkacaf/

[str]

I had a harsh “what if” thought about the one minute cutoff for CAW rapid fire betting when I heard it. I feel it should be more like 2-3 minutes for rapid fire bets. But that’s not the point.
From my limited understanding, I see NYRA making a move to help the everyday fan. Those everyday fans make the game go. Without them, the game is over.

Is any other track doing that? Honest question. I don’t follow the game well enough anymore to know.
But if the answer is pretty much no, then what every fan should consider is taking their business to the track that is showing an effort to help them. What a loud and clear message that would be.
Don’t think every jurisdiction won’t be paying close attention because they will.

Support this change and stop supporting places that don’t and your voice will be heard loud and clear.

Something for everyone to consider. In many businesses money talks but no more so than in horse racing parimutuel.

I hope everyone considers this.
Good Luck.

[str]

Just a heads up to those that might play at Oaklawn.

Like I said in Pigpens thread, watch the days where all inside or all outside horses seem to dominate the day.

When those that ran poorly , especially when expected to run well, run back, you might want to give them a 2nd look.

Consider it info that most do NOT have.

Any questions about that, fire AWAY.

gl.

[str]

yes I took what you said as there's a real future for this horse beyond just being a flashy debut winner .. took a while (which I guess means there were some issues) but certainly showing the talent level you thought she might

my guess would be gulfstream is her next stop and will keep an eye out .. be another good one to follow through the new year

I think she would be great to follow.

Thanks JBEX.

[JBEX]

Yeah JBEX, I think she showed that she was going to be a real player in her first race. When I say something like that, it kind if code for, good luck beating her anytime soon. She is super talented. And sitting outside and a clear right eye in 49 and change, made that race easy peasy. Not a big filly at all but not too small I don't think. Seems a filly can get away with that more than a boy can in the long run.
She is a ultra nice horse with most likely a big upside next year. She is smooth.
Thanks JBEX.

yes I took what you said as there's a real future for this horse beyond just being a flashy debut winner .. took a while (which I guess means there were some issues) but certainly showing the talent level you thought she might

my guess would be gulfstream is her next stop and will keep an eye out .. be another good one to follow through the new year

[str]

hey str

this was your comment after watching fully subscribe break her maiden in debut last October (2024) at aqueduct as a 2yo ..was on the shelf for over 10 months and i missed her first 2 starts as a 3yo which were both good efforts in allowance races. won the comely stakes at aqueduct yesterday (4th off layoff) and took the mother goose stakes the race before that and both were accomplished in easy fashion at 9 furlongs (which I like even more) .. think she will be a real player as a 4yo next year

Yeah JBEX, I think she showed that she was going to be a real player in her first race. When I say something like that, it kind if code for, good luck beating her anytime soon. She is super talented. And sitting outside and a clear right eye in 49 and change, made that race easy peasy. Not a big filly at all but not too small I don't think. Seems a filly can get away with that more than a boy can in the long run.
She is a ultra nice horse with most likely a big upside next year. She is smooth.
Thanks JBEX.

[ProSportsEdge]

This is where I might be behind in the times. There is soooo much info out there today that did not exist 10 years ago that I do not want to tell you the wrong thing. To my knowledge DRF.com ( Daily Racing Form) is still the leader in info. But be aware that their is SO much for you to learn and so many variables involved that if you bet more than 2.00 dollars a race at this point , I would say you are crazy. Probably best served to watch as many races as possible and just start to get a feel for the game.
So, with that said, please do me 2 favors.
1st. READ THE CHARTS of the races you watch the next day and review what you think you saw.
2nd. Learn to watch replays of every race you witness. Both angles. Even if you do not know what you are watching yet, you will see things along the way and become a better handicapper for it.
Most handicappers are only as good as there routine. Make sure that yours is better than the guys you are playing against , namely all the other bettors out there.
Keep me posted.

Thanks for the advice, really appreciate you breaking it down. You’re right, there’s so much info now that it can get overwhelming, so I’m keeping the bets small and focusing on the basics. I’ll start watching more races, checking the charts the next day, and going through replays like you suggested. I’m going to work on building a solid routine and learning things the right way. I’ll keep you posted, and thanks again for the guidance.

[JBEX]

if you do watch the replay see if you agree that this horse is really small .. usually don't notice things like this but thought it really stood out here

[JBEX]

So professional. So impressive. At no point in the race was she anything but the winner.

The 1 post presented no problems whatsoever.

hey str

this was your comment after watching fully subscribe break her maiden in debut last October (2024) at aqueduct as a 2yo ..was on the shelf for over 10 months and i missed her first 2 starts as a 3yo which were both good efforts in allowance races..won the comely stakes at aqueduct yesterday (4th off layoff) and took the mother goose stakes the race before that and both were accomplished in easy fashion at 9 furlongs (which I like even more) .. think she will be a real player as a 4yo next year

[str]

I need to, point something out to fans that do not have the opportunity to see how the sausage is made at the racetrack.

Please read this short statement in regards to the fiasco that happened last week in New York when the jocks refused to ride.

"Additionally, NYRA plans to install surveillance cameras to record the weigh-in and weight-out process for every race at all NYRA facilities. The cameras at Aqueduct are expected to be in place by year’s end".


OK?? By YEARS END.

If this was something deemed even the least bit important, management would have them installed overnight !!! They had 3 days after this fiasco. Whose installing them, Mack and Meyer for hire or the three stooges ?

This is exactly the crap I put up with in Maryland which led to me walking away from the game I had dedicated my life to, when all trainers were notified in BOLD print, everywhere we went, that starting in 2 weeks , the drug blah, blah, blah, would be tested for and be a positive if found. IT WAS ALREADY A POSITIVE !!

So they give every friggin cheating SOB, 2 weeks notice so they can stop giving the illegal drug they built their reputations with. On to the next drug !

What a slap in the face to every trainer and by extension, owner, who abided by the rules and never took advantage of the inept , underfunded, test lab that tested all blood and urine samples or in this case, the weigh ins and outs.

Memo to all the people that are cheating their asses off, "stop using a certain drug so you don't get caught. Here is 2 weeks notice. Find as new drug to cheat with and if we come up with a test for it, we will give all you cheating pricks 2 weeks notice. again.


And in the case of the riders, we are giving everyone 3 weeks to drop a few pounds that have gone unreported so you won't look bad when the cameras are installed. And we won't look bad either !!

And that's the REST of the story. Do I know that for sure? NO. Hope that's not the case this time. But it has been in the past. And everyone knows that that is true.

[str]

Yeah, that makes sense. Some charts are super helpful, but others… you can tell they were thrown together. The big tracks usually give you solid info, but with the smaller ones you really have to use your own judgment. After a while you can spot which charts are actually worth your time.

In most cases, these smaller tracks just don’t spend enough money for the chart calling position.
I always thought of it as yet another example of how the public is an after thought . And while it is a big edge for players that spend the time to monitor trips, I always thought it was wrong of tracks to not provide better information to the players.
But, having never had to deal with a racetrack budget, it’s probably unfair for me to judge. I know it’s easy to take the betting public for granted. Just doesn’t seem like a solid business model too me.

[ProSportsEdge]

As a follow up to reading the charts in my previous post, not all racetrack charts will be worthy of reading. The major tracks will probably be fine, some even better than fine. Very informative. But I have seen charts from secondary tracks and in some cases, a monkey with a keyboard would have been more informative.
You will know the difference.

Yeah, that makes sense. Some charts are super helpful, but others… you can tell they were thrown together. The big tracks usually give you solid info, but with the smaller ones you really have to use your own judgment. After a while you can spot which charts are actually worth your time.

[str]

Thanks for the advice, really appreciate it. You’re right, there’s so much info out there now and it can get overwhelming. I’ll keep the bets small for now and focus on watching races, checking the charts the next day, and going through replays. Building a good routine makes sense, and I’m going to work on that. I’ll keep you posted.

As a follow up to reading the charts in my previous post, not all racetrack charts will be worthy of reading. The major tracks will probably be fine, some even better than fine. Very informative. But I have seen charts from secondary tracks and in some cases, a monkey with a keyboard would have been more informative.
You will know the difference.

[ProSportsEdge]

This is where I might be behind in the times. There is soooo much info out there today that did not exist 10 years ago that I do not want to tell you the wrong thing. To my knowledge DRF.com ( Daily Racing Form) is still the leader in info. But be aware that their is SO much for you to learn and so many variables involved that if you bet more than 2.00 dollars a race at this point , I would say you are crazy. Probably best served to watch as many races as possible and just start to get a feel for the game.
So, with that said, please do me 2 favors.
1st. READ THE CHARTS of the races you watch the next day and review what you think you saw.
2nd. Learn to watch replays of every race you witness. Both angles. Even if you do not know what you are watching yet, you will see things along the way and become a better handicapper for it.
Most handicappers are only as good as there routine. Make sure that yours is better than the guys you are playing against , namely all the other bettors out there.
Keep me posted.

Thanks for the advice, really appreciate it. You’re right, there’s so much info out there now and it can get overwhelming. I’ll keep the bets small for now and focus on watching races, checking the charts the next day, and going through replays. Building a good routine makes sense, and I’m going to work on that. I’ll keep you posted.

[str]

There is a YouTube short floating around of Tony Dutrow being asked a question last summer at Saratoga. The question was:

"If you could change one thing about racing, what would it be ?"

He gave a one word answer.

Without hesitation, Tony said, CHEATERS.

I love it !

[Optional]

“They don’t respect us, they don’t care about our feelings, they don’t care about making us feel like we’re the head of the sport

And other jockeys voted in support of that argument??

You'd think horse racing was in a boom time to see that sort of wrong headed thinking spoken out loud.

[str]

On Sunday, the riders decided to shut down racing after the first race at Aqueduct. They cited "a lack of respect".

“They don’t respect us, they don’t care about our feelings, they don’t care about making us feel like we’re the head of the sport because we are the jocks. We do make the show go on,” Carmouche said Sunday. “It’s the jockeys and the valets standing up for what’s right.”

Somebody might want to point out to Kendrick and all the riders that without fans, there is no game.

Without management, owners, trainers, grooms, hot walkers, exercise riders, betting tellers, gate crew, the parking lot people, track maintenance, medical staff, Stewards, racing officials and and many more, jockey's have nothing.

The game is made up of a hundred different groups and races cannot be run and bets cannot be made without all of them .

After Sunday, they had three dark days to resolve this but decided to screw everyone involved for an ego trip.

Sorry Kendrick, and every jockey who voted with him, you were WRONG.

Let's hope the fans don't decide to have an ego trip of their own, much less any of the other groups.

One would think that someone might point that out to the jockey's who might think they make the show go, but don't.

It takes a village Kendrick.

[str]

A follow up. I have another meeting next Friday with the VP and whoever else she is bringing in.

THIS WILL HAPPEN !

The question is... to what extent.

People that I have witnessed work their asses off for decades and might not have much money, more than make up for it with the class, and dignity I saw.

They will NOT be forgotten. Not if I have anything to say about it.

I'll let everyone know, and thanks for the support.

We are making headway with Race Horse Heroes. Had a nice talk with the President of the MTHA ( Maryland Thoroughbred Horseman's Assn.)
In the meantime, the help has already started with a few people in need.

It is my wish to grow this thing to something special. Might as well use my connections I formed many years ago for a deeply needed cause. I saw where Mike Smith just signed for a movie deal that will benefit riders, etc.
I don't have his rep but with any luck, I can work out a conversation with him or his reps once we are up and running.

Stay tuned.

[str]

Happy Thanksgiving to everyone that reads this thread.

When some days seem to remind us of what we dislike, today should be used to remind us of what is right in each of our worlds.

Be thankful. I know I am.

Enjoy the day !

[str]

I just answered a post in PT about an out of control gambler who will lose everything.
If anyone reading this is even considering making reckless bets , you need to stop and get professional help immediately.
This should be fun and recreational, not all in and reckless.
Check yourself while you still can. Don’t wait until it’s too late.
Good luck.

[str]

Str, thanks for sharing. Great to hear about his stuff straight from the trainer's mouth.

I've ran a 'few' times into a horse that looked great, only to find out too late that the trainer was using the race as exercise, because the horse's next race was the real deal. Is there a way to weed out these type of efforts, and (probably not) is there a way to know the horse's next planned race? Thanks.

I found the quote. It's # 34.

I will stand by my answer but... I do need to add a certain situation.

The situation would be, for an extremely nice horse. A horse that is running because the main objective is NOT the race today, but the next race.

For instance, a horse who is prepping for the Ky. Derby . That horse already has enough points to be a Derby starter for sure and most likely the favorite. But, there is too much time between it's last race and the Derby. The horse needs to stay on schedule for the next race, it's most important in it's life.

In that case, the rider would most likely be reminded that the main objective is the next race. Now that does NOT mean that the trainer wants to lose. What it does mean is if another horse is running the race of it's life, try not to empty the tank because the main focus is the NEXT race, not the race that day. In no way, shape or form is that trying to lose IMO. And, I would recommend if that situation would come up, to try as a handicapper to be aware of that situation and try, if you see something, to maybe take a swing on another horse that DOES need to win to get into the Ky. Derby.

As a handicapper you must be aware of the circumstances and ask yourself, what trainer with the obvious best horse, would want to have his horse have to run as hard as it possibly can with the Derby on deck? No trainer would. Hope that makes sense.



When I read this, I assume my mind went to the old "pull the horse thing", that did exist way back and probably still does at those very low purse tracks where almost everyone is broke. Of course, that is my opinion and not a fact every time the situation appears.

I hope that clears that up. If not, please let me know.

[str]

Yeah, I get what you’re saying. That kind of thing might happen at a small harness track, but at places like Pimlico, Del Park, or Parx, I’ve never heard anything like it. If you can share who said it or where it happened, it’d be a lot easier to get a clear picture.

I’m pretty sure this quote is from many years ago. Not sure where it is in here. If you can provide me with a page number I hopefully can give you more details.

[ProSportsEdge]

Honestly I think this might happen to some degree in harness racing, but I do not know for sure, but if it is happening anywhere in flat racing other than some rinky dink track as small and backwards as Charlestown at least and probably less than that , I would be stunned. For a trainer to say something like that at let's say Pimlico , Del. Park , Parx. is simply unheard of. In my time it did not exist. If you could give me more info as to who would do this or where the race took place I could better speak too it. Please let me know.

Yeah, I get what you’re saying. That kind of thing might happen at a small harness track, but at places like Pimlico, Del Park, or Parx, I’ve never heard anything like it. If you can share who said it or where it happened, it’d be a lot easier to get a clear picture.

[ProSportsEdge]

Not hijacking at all. My expertise as to the betting end is limited and outdated . It is the training end that I am best suited. I certainly expect plenty of betting questions and some of those I am not best suited for especially with the newer information that did not exist unless you created it yourself back in the day.
I have to think that people get confused as to why a trainer might do or not do things and why a horse did or did not do certain things.Understanding that pace is so important, etc.
Thanks for the help.

No worries at all. Your perspective from the training side is really valuable. Most of us only see it from the betting angle, so hearing why trainers do certain things definitely helps. Appreciate you sharing your experience.

[ProSportsEdge]

Just read where the head of Team Valor said on national T.V. that trainers lied to him all the time. But when pressed as to if he meant Pletcher or Catalano he said "no not them".
Sounds like he got caught up in the moment too me. That was a terrible accusation he went with at exactly the wrong time.
As for Graham Motion , I can say without hesitation that he is one of the nicest guys I have ever met in my life. We shared a barn for a couple of years at Laurel and I could not be happier for him and his wife. A very solid horseman and I feel privileged to have gotten to know him. Good for him!

Yeah, that comment seemed totally off the cuff. And couldn’t agree more about Graham Motion — such a solid, genuine guy.

[ProSportsEdge]

Honestly I think this might happen to some degree in harness racing, but I do not know for sure, but if it is happening anywhere in flat racing other than some rinky dink track as small and backwards as Charlestown at least and probably less than that , I would be stunned. For a trainer to say something like that at let's say Pimlico , Del. Park , Parx. is simply unheard of. In my time it did not exist. If you could give me more info as to who would do this or where the race took place I could better speak too it. Please let me know.

Yeah, totally get what you’re saying. At places like Pimlico or Parx, you’d never hear a trainer say that. Smaller tracks are a different story though. If you can share which track it was, that might help clear things up.

[str]

• Laurel Race Course . Understanding the surface at certain times of the year.
• This time of year at Laurel, they add dirt to the cushion almost daily so as to build up the depth so they have more to work with than in the warmer months. This is needed for the cold months.
• And because of the pitch of the track, the added dirt tends to settle more inside than outside. ,Thus, the deadish rail in November. That will clean itself up soon when it gets into the upper 30's at night. They will start grading the track everyday and especially when rain is in the forecast. Look for a nice rail on off tracks into December.
• And if you keep notes on those inside deep track trips now and use them next month , you will find horses coming from against the bias to with the bias, which as we know, is the closest thing to stealing that you can get as a handicapper.
• Hope that helps.

[str]

I have a meeting today with the VP of Md. racing to discuss my plan. Amazing that if you live long enough, you know many of the top shelf people at the track. She and I have been friends for 40+ years. I'll keep you posted.

Guess I'm finally connected ! LOLOL

A follow up. I have another meeting next Friday with the VP and whoever else she is bringing in.

THIS WILL HAPPEN !

The question is... to what extent.

People that I have witnessed work their asses off for decades and might not have much money, more than make up for it with the class, and dignity I saw.

They will NOT be forgotten. Not if I have anything to say about it.

I'll let everyone know, and thanks for the support.

[str]

national Commissioner? str, I think YOU might have the qualifications.

Props on looking out for the former workers. You are correct. If they made contributions to the industry, they deserve something on the back-end.

I have a meeting today with the VP of Md. racing to discuss my plan. Amazing that if you live long enough, you know many of the top shelf people at the track. She and I have been friends for 40+ years. I'll keep you posted.

Guess I'm finally connected ! LOLOL

[ChuckyTheGoat]

national Commissioner? str, I think YOU might have the qualifications.

Props on looking out for the former workers. You are correct. If they made contributions to the industry, they deserve something on the back-end.

[str]

In the past few months it has come to my attention that some former jockey's, grooms, trainers, jock agents, or whatever the job description, are living in what I would classify as deplorable conditions.

IMO, this has to be addressed.

I am in the beginning stages of trying my best to form an opportunity for former and I suppose still current backstretch workers to reset their finances in such a way that they can be more comfortable in their retirement or older years. I did not realize the deplorable living conditions that some of these people, who if you met, I guarantee you you would like, are currently living under. It seems that by helping educate these people to the rights and wrongs of finances, as well as look into each condition on a case by case basis to find a way forward for them to upgrade their lives through using what they have but do not know how to properly use the tools that are out there. It seems many are just not aware of their options.
The reason for posting this in here is two fold. First, I think that some readers actually know who I am and most likely worked or followed Maryland racing. And if so, they probably know of someone who is in need of help. Maybe they are to some degree. There are so many programs out there that are not necessarily charity, but programs that can look at each persons situation and show them how to best utilize what is available for them. Sometimes, charitable help is indeed necessary. I hope to form that phase but my main goal is to help people utilize what they already process to their maximum benefit.

There are plenty of people that have plenty of money and would like to help but don't know exactly how. And of course, there are many out there who do not know how to utilize what is available to them. There are also cases that simply need monetary help. My goal will be to help individuals find the necessary path to become comfortable and not worried about day to day living and feel there is no hope.

Not even sure why I am posting this here but if one person that is in need can be helped, that seems like a win too me. This is in it's infancy at this point but I am all in on getting this up and running as soon as I possibly can.
I'll post more as I know it.

Thank you.

[str]

A couple of Breeders Cup thoughts:

With the CAW's doing their greedy best to destroy horse racing, let's look at two things that mattered other than the greed of track management, (at some tracks not all), last Saturday.

1. White Arbarrio was scratched during warmups.
OK, the vets on site have a duty to protect the horse as well as the betting public. That is a tough job. They are right way more than they are wrong. BUT... Why the secret squirrel lack of transparency with the vets? What the hell? They won't even discuss it with the trainer or ownership of the horse much less the last one to ever be considered, the fans.

I have no idea why in 2025 the vets are allowed to act like it was 1972. I use that year because that is when I started at the track full time and could witness first hand the secrecy that took place and still does. This is totally unacceptable in todays world.

I realize the racetrack is always the last to change as it loves to linger in the last century but you got to be kidding me. Unbelievable !

Did White Albarrio look off when we got a glimpse of him being ponied back to the paddock with 2 minutes to post on TV? Yes, he did look somewhat off in his left front if memory serves ... BUT.. that was while being held by a ponyboy with his head cocked to the left. A full decision and opinion should have been presented to the owners and trainers and , the public, but instead, silence. C'mon man, wake up !!! 1960 called and they want their authoritative ways of conducting horse racing back. Get in the game horse racing.

"May I have your attention please"...Paging for a national Commissioner please, will a national commissioner please stand up!
Heck, I'd take Slim Shady at this point. At least he owns it.

2. Horse of the Year. IMO, this crap about whoever wins the Classic is horse of the year is complete nonsense. Give that horse, horse of the day, the Classic, whatever, but you don't become a horse of the year in one day. It says in the title, horse of the year.

So look at every horses body of work "for the entire year."

And if you do that, my vote would be Sovereignty.

I can't think of who would be 2nd. I guess someone is and I'm missing it but did they really do more than Sovereignty did for the year?

My two cents.

[batt33]

Looks good Batt.

That first set out in the morning!!


Oh my," I can almost feel that wind".

Everyone is in a good mood, horses included. That time in the morning is something I will NEVER forget.

It reminded me of one of my favorite songs.

I remember how it used to feel
Riding down old two mile hill
Tennis shoes up on the handle bars
Paying no mind to the passing cars
No doubts, no fears, just like when you are here
No chains, no strings, no fences, no walls
No net, just you to catch me when I fall
Look heart, no hands
It took a little time to get up to speed
To find the confidence and strength I need
To just let go and reach for the sky
You Know sometimes it felt I could fly
No doubts, no fears, just like when you are here
No chains, no strings, no fences, no walls
No net, just you to catch me when I fall
Look heart, no hands
It doesn't take much, just a smile or a touch
And I'm a kid again, I can almost feel that wind
No chains, no strings, no fences, no walls
No net, just you to catch me when I fall
Look heart, no hands
Look heart, no hands

Randy Travis


Thanks Batt

Very cool song! I have to admit you got me.... the first set of the day going out..... that also brought back good memories STR!

[batt33]

Oh My !

22.36
22.28
11.70

56.38

Lolol.

This could be fun! Wesley Ward giving him some time off now before gearing up for the spring! I loved the way he galloped out!

[str]

Caldera Update



We checked in on Caldera yesterday morning at Highlander Training Center and your son of Liam’s Map could not have looked any better. He now has eight days of galloping under him and started yesterday galloping twice around the Highlander track. “He’s engaged in his training, always willing to do more,” said Jeff Hooper.

While time does most horses some good, this break from the racetrack has really done this colt well, allowing him to finally fill out into that big frame of his. We're excited to see how he progresses from here.

https://cdnb-media.myracehorse.com/b...0716952831.mp4

Looks good Batt.

That first set out in the morning!!


Oh my," I can almost feel that wind".

Everyone is in a good mood, horses included. That time in the morning is something I will NEVER forget.

It reminded me of one of my favorite songs.

I remember how it used to feel
Riding down old two mile hill
Tennis shoes up on the handle bars
Paying no mind to the passing cars
No doubts, no fears, just like when you are here
No chains, no strings, no fences, no walls
No net, just you to catch me when I fall
Look heart, no hands
It took a little time to get up to speed
To find the confidence and strength I need
To just let go and reach for the sky
You Know sometimes it felt I could fly
No doubts, no fears, just like when you are here
No chains, no strings, no fences, no walls
No net, just you to catch me when I fall
Look heart, no hands
It doesn't take much, just a smile or a touch
And I'm a kid again, I can almost feel that wind
No chains, no strings, no fences, no walls
No net, just you to catch me when I fall
Look heart, no hands
Look heart, no hands

Randy Travis


Thanks Batt