OT: And the case for atheism gets stronger every day...

[moneyline]

God is your legs. And arms. And soul. You choose not to believe in Him. He still believes in you.

People say they choose not to believe in God, others say they do ... believe me when I say you are close to unique with the argument "I don't have a choice."

Why don't we post the ? here to see how many people think they have a choice to believe or not to believe OR how many people believe they don't have a choice in the first place?

You'll find you're pretty close to alone when it comes to your excuse for not accepting God ...

[Arnold]

God is your legs.

Tell it to the legless man and then see if he walks.

People say they choose not to believe in God, others say they do ... believe me when I say you are close to unique with the argument "I don't have a choice."

Why don't we post the ? here to see how many people think they have a choice to believe or not to believe OR how many people believe they don't have a choice in the first place?

You'll find you're pretty close to alone when it comes to your excuse for not accepting God ...

There are 3 choices, if you will:

A) Believe that God exists
B) Believe that God doesn't exist
C) Have no opinion/belief (not literally a choice)

Any of the 2 first answers make you a believer. Most non-Christians will take C. I'm surprised this is news to you. Maybe you've been talking to 5 year old kids during your 38 years, I don't know.

[moneyline]

You never heard the phrase "Choosing not to choose" ... I don't want to belittle 5 year olds by saying that they bought the fact you didn't make a choice and, therefore, have no accountability for that lack of a choice. They are above that, I think ...

I like the way you think, though ...

1) Believe in God = believing in Santa
2) Don't believe in God = opening yourself up to the consequences of that choice
3) Have no opinion/belief = being the equivalent of an inanimate object, like a rock for example

[Arnold]

You never heard the phrase "Choosing not to choose"

You never saw a legless man that chose not to walk?

1) Believe in God = believing in Santa

There is no reason to believe in both, so in a sense it doesn't really matter.

2) Don't believe in God = opening yourself up to the consequences of that choice

Not true. There is no reason to believe in inexistence of God. Either A or B has no basis for belief. Same as when handicapping and all your reasons favoring team A over team B have no real meaning on the outcome of the bet. You just get lucky or unlucky.

3) Have no opinion/belief = being the equivalent of an inanimate object, like a rock for example

OK, so the legless person is an inanimate object, like a rock. Solid logic once again.

Do you always have an opinion? If not, then you're a rock when you don't have an opinion?

I don't know how much more simpler it can be put into your head so you understand. Christians, for some (apparent) reason, have always being dumber than the average public.

[moneyline]

Actually, legless people can walk. They have a choice to do so, Arnold, not to bring it up so late in the conversation. They can choose to get prosthetics. It is the 21st century, after all.

Hiding behind not having an opinion and then hoping your lack of a choice won't have consequences puts you in the same category as an ostrich. If he sees the lion, choose not to run and chooses not to fight, but instead puts his head in the sand and hopes that is enough, does it work out for him?

Your head is in the sand. You hope it works out.

(It won't)

... and name calling, once again the last resort for those who are not faring too well in a debate, is beneath you, Arnold ... instead of placing a group's intelligence into question, why don't you question why your intelligence prohibits you from making a choice ...

[Arnold]

Actually, legless people can walk. They have a choice to do so, Arnold, not to bring it up so late in the conversation. They can choose to get prosthetics. It is the 21st century, after all.

Ah, OK. You've been to 70 different countries and haven't realized yet, that this technology is not affordable to 3rd world countries? I'm beginning to doubt that you've being even to Canada. And even the rich, they haven't lived in the 21st century always. Maybe in the future we'll have such technology that will be able to tell us whether or not there is a God. Right now we can't answer this question.

Hiding behind not having an opinion and then hoping your lack of a choice won't have consequences puts you in the same category as an ostrich. If he sees the lion, choose not to run and chooses not to fight, but instead puts his head in the sand and hopes that is enough, does it work out for him?

Your head is in the sand. You hope it works out.

(It won't)

It's a legless ostrich. He can't run. Lets kill the easy prey!

... and name calling, once again the last resort for those who are not faring too well in a debate, is beneath you, Arnold ... instead of placing a group's intelligence into question, why don't you question why your intelligence prohibits you from making a choice ...

Ah, maybe because it's impossible to prove or disprove God? Again, you show how intelligent Christians are, that think their faith can prove something. Extremely convincing.

[moneyline]

I guess you are legless (in the intellectual sense) Arnold. Seems to be what you are saying. I'll stop taking advantage of someone as helpless as you make yourself out to be. It just wouldn't be right. If you don't have the mental capacity to make a choice when it comes to the existence of God, I believe He will take that into consideration ...

[Arnold]

I guess you are legless (in the intellectual sense) Arnold.

We all are. You're a fool if you think you can prove God solely based on your faith in him. I can prove Santa this way, if you like. Even the pink elephants on the dark side of the moon will be proven if someone has faith in them. It's so easy. I can even prove that you're gay, if only I believe you are gay. Huh, why do they waste so much time in court? Just blindly believe that the guy is guilty and put him in the chair!

Seems to be what you are saying. I'll stop taking advantage of someone as helpless as you make yourself out to be. It just wouldn't be right. If you don't have the mental capacity to make a choice when it comes to the existence of God, I believe He will take that into consideration ...

Right, just because you believe, he certainly will. But finally you understood at least something.

[donjuan]

Let me guess how this thread has gone since I really don't feel like reading 6 pages of garbage:

Logical people: Organized religion is a bunch of garbage.

Illogical people: OMG ur going to hellz if you don't believe!!!

[moneyline]

The proof will be upon death. Either all will go blank (roll final credits) or I'll be a pretty happy guy and you will not ...

Or if you are right ... wait, you can't be right ... you never made a choice ...

[donjuan]

Ah, the scare tactic. Hilarious.

[moneyline]

What do you believe in, Juan? Besides the horror of small sample sizes, of course.

[durito]

The proof will be upon death. Either all will go blank (roll final credits) or I'll be a pretty happy guy and you will not ...

Or if you are right ... wait, you can't be right ... you never made a choice ...

why don't you try it and find out

[moneyline]

We all will soon enough, doritos ...

[Arnold]

Let me guess how this thread has gone since I really don't feel like reading 6 pages of garbage:

Logical people: Organized religion is a bunch of garbage.

Illogical people: OMG ur going to hellz if you don't believe!!!

Wow! You're right on the money! That's exactly how this thread went. Although, the logical people did try and still try to explain it to the illogical people how to read the alphabet and count 2+2...patiently.

[moneyline]

Nowhere near God's patience with you, Arnold. Your patience pales in comparison ...

[Arnold]

The proof will be upon death. Either all will go blank (roll final credits) or I'll be a pretty happy guy and you will not ...

Or if you are right ... wait, you can't be right ... you never made a choice ...

Oh boy, just admit that you believe in God just because of the "what if" argument. What if God exists and I'm not saved????!?!?!?! Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!!!!!! Better be a believer!!!!

[Arnold]

Nowhere near God's patience with you, Arnold. Your patience pales in comparison ...

And why are you saying that? Did I ever say that I am more patient than God? But then, if you read the Old Testament...you see lots of patience! Blood, slaughter, and more blood. Where did the patience and love go? Oh, right, Jesus hasn't come yet!

[moneyline]

Patience hoping you will make a choice eventually. He created you, gave His Son for you and will be patient with you throughout your life hoping you accept the gift He is offering.

Of course, you can keep choosing not to choose and refering to His existence in the same breath with Santa ... you have free will ... that is your choice.

(and there are consequences to every choice -- both as we live our lives here and beyond here ...)

You've had bad experiences with God and the Bible. Anybody can see that from this thread. I'm sorry for that. Doesn't mean you have to shut yourself off to Him, but if you choose to, the only thing I can hope is that you do not procreate and bring others with you ...

[donjuan]

What do you believe in, Juan? Besides the horror of small sample sizes, of course.

Logic, reason and enjoying life.

[donjuan]

But if forced to choose a belief system, I'd go with this one.

[Arnold]

Patience hoping you will make a choice eventually.

Wait until the legless ostrich runs. He'll die before that happens. And then you'll defend Christians' intelligence level. Hm, you probably will wait for him to run even after he dies

He created you, gave His Son for you and will be patient with you throughout your life hoping you accept the gift He is offering.

I didn't need his son to die for me. It was his own problem. He's the boss, he makes the rules.

How's that gift from Santa? Did you accept it already?

Of course, you can keep choosing not to choose and refering to His existence in the same breath with Santa ... you have free will ... that is your choice.

What's your proof of God? There is none, same as there is none for Santa. Therefore, believing in God isn't any different, than believing in Santa.

You've had bad experiences with God and the Bible. Anybody can see that from this thread. I'm sorry for that. Doesn't mean you have to shut yourself off to Him, but if you choose to, the only thing I can hope is that you do not procreate and bring others with you ...

That's exactly what I'm hoping to do. The more people I can turn away from God, the better it is.

[moneyline]

Good for you, Arnold. Everyone should have a goal in life. Good to see you weren't afraid to make a choice when coming up with one.

And Juan, this life is an extremely small sample size when compared to eternity. How can you actually know if you are having a good time? Won't you need a few more lifetimes to come to that determination?

[donjuan]

And Juan, this life is an extremely small sample size when compared to eternity. How can you actually know if you are having a good time? Won't you need a few more lifetimes to come to that determination?

Um, no. This is not clever, either.

[HedgeHog]

For me, belief in God is a +Ev bet. If I'm wrong, how much have I really lost? But if I'm right, I just collected my biggest future bet ever!

[Arnold]

For me, belief in God is a +Ev bet. If I'm wrong, how much have I really lost? But if I'm right, I just collected my biggest future bet ever!

It's a trap. Don't do it.

[Panic]

It's a trap. Don't do it.

Whats the downside?

[Panic]

Very interested to hear this from, Arnold.

[Ganchrow]

For me, belief in God is a +Ev bet. If I'm wrong, how much have I really lost? But if I'm right, I just collected my biggest future bet ever!

This is known as Pascal's Wager.

[Arnold]

Whats the downside?

You're not replying to me. Goodbye.

[Panic]

You're not replying to me. Goodbye.

You're so special.

[moneyline]

Um, no. This is not clever, either.

Actually, yes it was. Otherwise you wouldn't have made the comment. And you still haven't taken the time to comment in the Jeter thread what the difference is between "means nothing and almost nothing."

You are a funny joke. Made all the fiunnier because you won't admit you are, Billy C ...

[Dazzez]

This is known as Pascal's Wager.

Richard Dawkins:

Suppose there is a God who is watching us and choosing which souls of the deceased to bring to heaven, and this god really does want only the morally good to populate heaven. He will probably select from only those who made a significant and responsible effort to discover the truth. For all others are untrustworthy, being cognitively or morally inferior, or both. They will also be less likely ever to discover and commit to true beliefs about right and wrong. That is, if they have a significant and trustworthy concern for doing right and avoiding wrong, it follows necessarily that they must have a significant and trustworthy concern for knowing right and wrong.

Since this knowledge requires knowledge about many fundamental facts of the universe (such as whether there is a god), it follows necessarily that such people must have a significant and trustworthy concern for always seeking out, testing, and confirming that their beliefs about such things are probably correct. Therefore, only such people can be sufficiently moral and trustworthy to deserve a place in heaven — unless god wishes to fill heaven with the morally lazy, irresponsible, or untrustworthy.

Your last, best hope, moneyline, is that this is exactly what your god is looking to do. Oh yes, in the land of the intellectually vapid, morally obtuse, and cognitively obsequious, your Christ is indeed King of Kings.

[Arnold]

But if forced to choose a belief system, I'd go with this one.

Or this guy...

[donjuan]

Actually, yes it was. Otherwise you wouldn't have made the comment. And you still haven't taken the time to comment in the Jeter thread what the difference is between "means nothing and almost nothing."

Um, you were obviously trying to be cute and make some kind of analogy. The only problem is that it was a false analogy. Back to the drawing board, mate.