OT: And the case for atheism gets stronger every day...

[Arnold]

Once you have accepted Him, you are saved. And then you follow His teachings, not to earn heaven, but because you want to do as He instructed ... because you realize He is the alpha and omega ...

Right, like you always follow his teachings because you want to, not because you force yourself. Don't you ever look at women in a sinful way? All I'm saying is nothing "magical" happens when you "accept" Jesus. You are still the same person, and any personal changes are done by your own effort, not some higher power from above. And then, the only reason to force yourself is just to make sure you're going to heaven. There is no other reason. Because, of course, if you don't follow the teaching, you haven't really accepted Jesus. It's simple.

[topcat]

I definitely see the irony in the story. As for fanatics, they're in every religion.

i i totaly agree,they are fanaticcs in every religion.the fact that pat robertson ,an jerry farwel,said people deserved getting killed in katrina,and the twin towers.they said people were living sinful lives.the senator of alabamaclaims to be a religious man] said that new orleans got destroyed,because of their sinning.priest of the catholic church molesting kids,and covevering it up,and relocating the priest at other churches.the children meanwhile are scared for life.the obama preacher ,and farican[spelled wrong] are nothing but white haters.
oral roberts demanding money,saying if he didnt get it god would kill him.jhis son spending money from the colleage living big.jim,and tammy faye baker milking poor people,living like kings..jimmy swagert having adultrty.they are still good preachers out there like joel olsten,t.d jakes,and billy graham.god created us,and god loves us.he wants the best for us eventhough we have bad things that happen to us.i hurt my back,and say cuse words,and say why me.i guess instead of god healing me he gave people the ability to make medicine so i can deal with the pain.my parting words are this,believe in god not in man.

[swede96]

Not an imaginary friend -- your Creator, whether you choose to believe in Him or not. And Swede, look at your posts in this thread. For someone who is close to believing in Him, you sure do take some pot shots at His existence along the way.

Just sayin' (or thereabouts)

You call them pot shots. I call them questioning Him in an attempt to better understand Him and throwing some humor in along the way.

[swede96]

Yes, Swede, quotes like this certainly do show you are thisclose to accepting God. C'mon, who are you kidding?

I'm sure God would want you to spend at leats a little time on this world He created enjoying a little humor. If He created us and gave us free will, then I'm sure He realizes how silly it is to expect us to blindly believe in Him. OIn any case, I don't have to justify my faith to you. It is between me and whatever force it is driving us.

[moneyline]

Humor at the Lord's expense? Swede, surely you are smarter than that. And Swede, it would be hard to justify your faith because you have none. "Whatever force that is driving us" is about as ambiguous as it gets ...

[moneyline]

Right, like you always follow his teachings because you want to, not because you force yourself. Don't you ever look at women in a sinful way? All I'm saying is nothing "magical" happens when you "accept" Jesus.

Actually, it does. You are still a sinner by nature, but by asking the Lord into your heart and to take over your life. He does make a tangible difference. It's not something you would understand since you've never made the choice to do so. For those who have, they have seen a major difference in their lives.

Here's the deal. Your ego doesn't allow you to accept that the Lord can make changes in you if you ask Him. You believe everything good you do is ALL because of you. Ego run amok.

[Arnold]

Actually, it does.

No, it doesn't.

You are still a sinner by nature, but by asking the Lord into your heart and to take over your life. He does make a tangible difference.

He doesn't. It's a too common lie.

It's not something you would understand since you've never made the choice to do so. For those who have, they have seen a major difference in their lives.

What difference? You are still you. Only now you go to church, read the Bible and pray...and judge others. But inside you're still you, with some new views, that are useless by themselves to make a difference. You just don't stop getting horny when you accept Jesus.

Here's the deal. Your ego doesn't allow you to accept that the Lord can make changes in you if you ask Him. You believe everything good you do is ALL because of you. Ego run amok.

That's right, everything I do is all because of me. That makes me responsible for my actions. Christians, on the other hand, have no responsibility whatsoever, because everything is done for them by God. If God can do changes, then great, I have no problem with that. Can anyone forbid God to do something he wants? Of course not. Who am I to stand in his way? Don't be silly, moneyline.

[moneyline]

You can't forbid God to do what He wants, but He gave us free will, Arnold. And that free will allows folks like yourself to refuse Him access into your heart. I know you don't understand the difference -- you've chosen not to experience it and, therefore, not to understand it.

God would love it if everyone would believe in Him, but He won't force anyone to. It is actually a sign of His greatness -- and of many human's weaknesses. Your ego gets in the way of your development.

Sadly, you are far from the only one.

Oh, and Christians certainly do have responsibility for their negative actions. And I would never think to blame anyone but myself when I do something wrong. But whenever I do something good, all of the praise and thanks and credit goes to the Lord. This would be impossible for someone like yourself to do, with your ego and all, but it is easy for those who have accepted Him.

[Arnold]

You can't forbid God to do what He wants, but He gave us free will, Arnold. And that free will allows folks like yourself to refuse Him access into your heart..

If he wants to, then go ahead, he can come in. Did I ever say that he can't? He's always welcome! Why would I refuse entrance to good people/gods? I'm still sane.

I know you don't understand the difference -- you've chosen not to experience it and, therefore, not to understand it.

You always twist my words to your own benefit. This is to put me in a "wrong" position, and yourself in the "right" position, so you could continue "saving" me.

God would love it if everyone would believe in Him, but He won't force anyone to. It is actually a sign of His greatness -- and of many human's weaknesses.

Lol, lol! This is correct, Christians like you just can't seem to stop "saving" everyone. Lol, again.

Your ego gets in the way of your development.

I'm fairly well developed, physically, mentally and psychologically.

Oh, and Christians certainly do have responsibility for their negative actions. And I would never think to blame anyone but myself when I do something wrong.

So now you agree that Christians are just people, regardless of their acceptance of Jesus.

But whenever I do something good, all of the praise and thanks and credit goes to the Lord.

That's exactly why I think Christians are retarded. Your statement is absurd.

This would be impossible for someone like yourself to do, with your ego and all, but it is easy for those who have accepted Him

It is impossible to do when you have a logical set of mind. It is probably better for me not to talk about Christians' mental abilities, because I can go forever without an end

PS. If I were God, I would be embarrassed to have followers like that. Maybe that's why he's hiding his face in shame from us

[moneyline]

But He's not hiding, Arnold. You are the one with your head in the sand. You are hiding from Him. And much like people don't just walk into your home uninvited, the Lord is the same way. He'd like to enter your heart. Unfortunately, you haven't been able to put the ego aside long enough to invite Him in ...

[Arnold]

But He's not hiding, Arnold. You are the one with your head in the sand. You are hiding from Him.

I'm hiding from God? He knows where I live, don't be ridiculous. I'm not the one who is all knowing. I think you mixed some things up.

And much like people don't just walk into your home uninvited, the Lord is the same way.

I don't invite many people, but they just knock and I open the door. Does God need some special invitation? He can come in for crying out loud! God, come in! I'm waiting for you! Where are you?! You're welcome to my home, I invite you!!!!!

Here, I hope he's not on vacation right now, or I guess he'll get the message on his answering machine once he comes back.

He'd like to enter your heart. Unfortunately, you haven't been able to put the ego aside long enough to invite Him in ...

I just did! Now lets wait and see when God shows up at the door

[Panic]

I'm hiding from God? He knows where I live, don't be ridiculous. I'm not the one who is all knowing. I think you mixed some things up.

I don't invite many people, but they just knock and I open the door. Does God need some special invitation? He can come in for crying out loud! God, come in! I'm waiting for you! Where are you?! You're welcome to my home, I invite you!!!!!

Here, I hope he's not on vacation right now, or I guess he'll get the message on his answering machine once he comes back.

I just did! Now lets wait and see when God shows up at the door

You're so special, Arnold. Knowing you're bigger than God must be a huge burden......but then again you play it off like its nothing. Unreal.

[operaman]

Two quotes from great minds.

Man will never be free, until the last king is strangled by the
entrails of the last priest.

As to the belief in God, the common man says yes, the wise man says no, the leader says useful.

[Panic]

Two quotes from great minds before the birth of Jesus:

Man will never be free, until the last king is strangled by the
entrails of the last priest.

As to the belief in God, the common man says yes, the wise man says no, the leader says useful.

Who quoted that? What book? What year?

[moneyline]

And the saved man says "I accept you into my heart, Lord Jesus," with no ego, rancor or mocking in his words ..

[Panic]

LOL. You guys crack me up.

[operaman]

Who quoted that? What book? What year?

Sorry, my recollect was wrong.

Seneca born 4 bc
Denis Diderot 1700s

[Panic]

Sorry, my recollect was wrong.

Seneca born 4 bc
Denis Diderot 1700s

I'm sorry....what book?

[operaman]

What does the book have to do with anything?

I have given you ample information for searching the quotes.
These are both very famous men.

[Panic]

What does the book have to do with anything?

I have given you ample information for searching the quotes.

LOL. Obviously nothing. I can give you quotes as well, without substance. Here's a quote:God said" anyone that will go by operaman will perish in eternal damnation"...how about that? I dont have anything(book, ect...) to back it up, but what does that matter? Its true, right?

[moneyline]

Yes, the Lord is no match for mere mortals. Oh, what's the difference when a person is famous, as compared to being infamous? Aren't both groups well known and quotable?

[Panic]

Yes, the Lord is no match for mere mortals. Oh, what's the difference when a person is famous, as compared to being infamous? Aren't both groups well known and quotable?

Must be nice to have an ego that puts you on his level. How do you get that?

[moneyline]

Huh? I hold the Lord well above all others. Don't you???

[operaman]

I will help.


Step:

1) put your pointer right after the t in priest and drag your mouse to right before M in man.
2) right click on your mouse.
3) select copy
4) go to google (Google.com)
5) left click your mouse at the search window
6) right click and select paste
7) press the enter button

Man will never be free, until the last king is strangled by the
entrails of the last priest

The second quote is harder to find , but i'll give you a hint.
(Seneca the younger)


On a serious note, please don't add useless posts for the express intention of getting to a 1000 post count.

[Panic]

Huh? I hold the Lord well above all others. Don't you???

I'm with you, moneyline. Just watch what happens.

[Panic]

I will help.


Step:

1) put your pointer right after the t in priest and drag your mouse to right before M in man.
2) right click on your mouse.
3) select copy
4) go to google (Google.com)
5) left click your mouse at the search window
6) right click and select paste
7) press the enter button

Man will never be free, until the last king is strangled by the
entrails of the last priest

The second quote is harder to find , but i'll give you a hint.
(Seneca the younger)


On a serious note, please don't add useless posts for the express intention of getting to a 1000 post count.

LOL. There it is, moneyline. Look at the damaged. Gotta love the naive. They preach nothing, but when in trouble pray. Gotta love it.

[moneyline]

Yep. They choose to follow man. Either themselves or dead philosophers/great minds of the past ... funny how they are willing to embrace their own words, or the words of others, but so unwilling to embrace the word of God.

Oh, well, there's no accounting for taste.

[pavyracer]

I love when Christians try to say that radical muslims are savage and/or insane. Not to say that they aren't, but c'mon, look in your mirrors people!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080420/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_clashing_christians

Christians clash at Jesus' tomb on Orthodox Palm Sunday

By SARAH EL DEEB, Associated Press Writer Sun Apr 20, 3:49 PM ET

JERUSALEM - Dozens of Greek and Armenian priests and worshippers exchanged blows at one of Christianity's holiest shrines on Orthodox Palm Sunday, and used palm fronds to pummel police who tried to break up the brawl.

The fight came amid growing rivalry over religious rights at the Church of the Holy Sepulcher, built over the site in Jerusalem where tradition says Jesus was buried and resurrected.

It erupted when Armenian clergy kicked out a Greek priest from their midst, pushed him to the ground and kicked him, according to witnesses.

When police intervened, some worshippers hit them with the palm fronds they were holding for the religious holiday. The Eastern Orthodox churches, including the Armenians and Greek Orthodox, follow a different calendar from Western Christians and celebrate Easter next Sunday.

Two Armenian worshippers who attacked the Greek Orthodox clergy were briefly detained by Israeli police. Scores of Armenian supporters then protested outside the police station during the questioning of the two, beating drums and chanting.

The Holy Sepulcher is shared by several Christian denominations according to a centuries-old arrangement known as the "status quo."

Each denomination jealously guards its share of the basilica, and fights over rights at the church have intensified in recent years, particularly between the Armenians and Greeks.

Father Pakrad, an Armenian priest, said the presence of the Greek priest during the Armenian observances violated the status quo. "Our priests entered the tomb. They kicked the Greek monk out of the Edicule," he said, referring to the tomb area.

Pakrad accused the Greek Orthodox Christians of trying to step on the Armenians' rights. "We are the weak ones, persecuted by them for many centuries."

The Greek Orthodox Patriarch in the Holy Land, Theofilos III, told The Associated Press that the Armenians are pushing to change the rules, challenging what he said was the dominance of the Greek church in the Holy Land.

"This behavior is criminal and unacceptable by all means," he said. "They wanted to trespass on the status quo concerning the order that regulates the services between the various communities."

The Church of the Nativity in nearby Bethlehem — where Jesus is said to have been born — also falls under the status quo arrangement. Last year, pre-Christmas cleaning in that church turned ugly when robed Greek Orthodox and Armenian priests went at each other with brooms and stones.

What this article doesn't say is that after the brawl the Greek and Armenian priests celebrated at the local taverna eating gyros, saganaki, kibbi and lahmajoun with a couple shots of raki. Opa!

[moneyline]

(tzatsiki is the best)

[Arnold]

So I come back home today and what do I find out? Jesus isn't there! Woah, what a surprise!!!

[moneyline]

It's going to be a much bigger surprise for you when you discover He was there all along and you chose to ignore Him. Now, that's a surprise of epic proportions.

[Arnold]

It's going to be a much bigger surprise for you when you discover He was there all along and you chose to ignore Him. Now, that's a surprise of epic proportions.

No, man. I'm not convinced in one thing or another. You in contrary, just asking for a huge heartbreak

[moneyline]

Actually, you couldn't be further from the truth. My belief in the Lord has made my life so much better on this earth and if I end up being wrong, my only penalty will be going into darkness and not even knowing I am there.

You, on the other hand -- your life is worse without the Lord here on earth and, on the off chance I am right, your afterlife isn't going to be all that good either.

(but try to explain that you just couldn't choose because God didn't do His job properly -- I'm sure He'll understand)

[Arnold]

Actually, you couldn't be further from the truth. My belief in the Lord has made my life so much better on this earth and if I end up being wrong, my only penalty will be going into darkness and not even knowing I am there.

That's all you care about - getting to heaven. Now lets ask you a question...would you give up your spot in heaven for a monstrous sinner like me?

You, on the other hand -- your life is worse without the Lord here on earth

My life is great here on earth, whichever way I live it now. I'm not the one who only can see the bad in life!

and, on the off chance I am right, your afterlife isn't going to be all that good either.

That's the only reason you're a "Christian".

(but try to explain that you just couldn't choose because God didn't do His job properly -- I'm sure He'll understand)

Of course he will. He's a loving God, right? And if he's not, then there is no difference where you spend your eternity. Devil may end up nicer than God afterall.

[moneyline]

You choose to believe heaven is the reason I believe. I believe because God exists and because I always want to be in His presence, both in this life and the afterlife. You turn Him away with your apathetic behavior and expect that, if He is loving, there will be no consequences for your actions.

For such an intelligent sort, it is amazing that you can't grasp the concept that your actions will have consequences. If you choose to ignore your father here on earth and then he doesn't want to embrace you as a result, I guess that means he is not a loving person either?

Or maybe it just makes you a very intelligent fool.

(as for giving up my spot in heaven for you, it's an irrelevant question, as everyone has access to heaven -- it's not set up for one person to give up a spot for another ... but, of course, you know that may or may not be true, just like everything else in your life you can't decide upon)