OT: And the case for atheism gets stronger every day...

[Panic]

What's funny is people believing in a structure and CONTAINMENT of religion. There is an old scripture that they wont push in today's religion, that is very clear. It is this: God says, "There will NEVER be a building made by man that can contain me." Anotherwords, people who think church, synagogues, ect.. is the answer and ridicule people who dont go are WRONG. There are people more devoted to God outside that building than the money fake icons and followers inside it. Believe that.

[moneyline]

But there is certainly nothing wrong with believers gathering for worship, either in a church or anywhere else for that matter. The Bible speaks in favor of that OVER AND OVER again. Why someone who believes in the Lord would not want to go and be with other believers to share, and learn more, about their faith is truly baffling.

[Panic]

No problem at all. But does the church ridicule people for not going to church or vice versa? The church makes it clear that you are not accepted unless you stay within their building consistently and give what they want.

[Arnold]

"I don't believe anything."

That about sums it up. There is a right answer, but since you choose not to choose any answer, you have no chance of being right.

That's the problem with Christians, because they think must always be right. When someone asks you a question to which you don't know the answer, do you just make a guess and give that for an answer? I just say "I don't know".

It'd be like taking a multiple choice test and choosing not to fill in any of the blanks.

Exactly, because I am responsible for what I fill out. When I don't know something, I just admit it. Not knowing is not a crime. Making guesses and wrapping them in "truth" is a crime.

Good luck with that strategy. Seems a bit hopeless, but what do I know? I believe this world was created by someone much greater than me.

A Creator and Christian God don't necessarily have to be one. There can be a Creator for sure, but it doesn't automatically prove Christianity true. It can very well disprove it if the Creator happens to be not-Jehovah.

All one has to do is look at the Himalayan mountains to see that ...

What about them? Is God still resides on Mt Everest?

[Arnold]

But there is certainly nothing wrong with believers gathering for worship, either in a church or anywhere else for that matter. The Bible speaks in favor of that OVER AND OVER again. Why someone who believes in the Lord would not want to go and be with other believers to share, and learn more, about their faith is truly baffling.

The Bible doesn't promote church-going as Christians do it today. The church had a different meaning/purpose in the Bible. Also, Jesus never promoted church at all. He came to preach the eternal life, the Kingdom of Heaven, not church-going.

[kingstar]

Dumbass post

[moneyline]

You are not only responsible for what you fill out, but, just as important, you are responsible for what you do not fill out. For some reason, people seem to believe if they make no choices and if God does end up existing, He'll give them a free pass ... interesting concept, especially for those who deal in logic. Because logically it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

And the Bible DOES promote believers gathering together for worship. It always has and it always will. Church happens to be one of the places that this occurs.

[Arnold]

No problem at all. But does the church ridicule people for not going to church or vice versa? The church makes it clear that you are not accepted unless you stay within their building consistently and give what they want.

Yes, they do. You're an outcast if you don't go to church. Simple as that. Church is their idol, which is one of the sins from the 10 commandments.

[Arnold]

You are not only responsible for what you fill out, but, just as important, you are responsible for what you do not fill out. For some reason, people seem to believe if they make no choices and if God does end up existing, He'll give them a free pass ... interesting concept, especially for those who deal in logic. Because logically it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

Oh, so if he does exist and you guessed it right, then he'll give you a free pass just for a lucky guess? That really does not make any sense. What even more makes no sense, is the idea of spending eternity in hell. I thought God was the all loving God. If that's his love (hell), then I'd rather pass.

And the Bible DOES promote believers gathering together for worship. It always has and it always will. Church happens to be one of the places that this occurs.

In that day there was no internet for Christians to talk to each other. Obviously, it was a good idea to have a gathering place. But this is far from what church has become today. Church happens to be the decisive factor, a ticket machine, that sends you either to heaven, or hell (if you don't go).

[Panic]

Here's one for all of you that take the teachings and structure of religion to heart: In the bible, Jesus never, EVER, ate meat. Why do you?

[Arnold]

Here's one for all of you that take the teachings and structure of religion to heart: In the bible, Jesus never, EVER, ate meat. Why do you?

He never said you can't. I also don't see Jesus brush his teeth or go to a toilet. Why should anyone then?

[Panic]

He never said you can't. I also don't see Jesus brush his teeth or go to a toilet. Why should anyone then?

He never said you could either. He taught the disciples to fish, he changed everything for the wedding festival into wine, bread and fish, and his last supper...bread and wine. Most of his teachings were outside instead of in a church setting, right? Believe what you want, structure and containment religion is a joke.

[moneyline]

Having faith does not qualify as a lucky guess. And going to church has nothing to do with salvation. God's love revolves around the fact He sacrificed His son for us and gives us every opportunity to accept Him. He knows we can't earn heaven, but loves us enough to give us a gift, along with the gift of free will.

If you choose not to accept His gift, does that make Him unloving or uncaring to attach consequences to your choices?

I thought a logical thinker would understand and accept the concept that for each choice you make, there are concrete consequences that follow?

Peter, you are the rock that I will build my church upon ...

[Arnold]

He never said you could either.

So what does it mean? If he didn't tell you, you can wipe your rear with toilet paper, then you really can't?

He taught the disciples to fish

Doesn't fish has meat?

[Panic]

A logical thinker looks at the iniquities in the world and questions a supreme being...and rightfully so. If there is a God that allows children to be molested and to suffer and die a painful and cruel death at the hands of disease and starvation, then damn right I'm gonna question him and if doesn't like it, then I dont want no part of him. Simple as that. Because there will be no logical explanation for why that happens. None.

[Panic]

So what does it mean? If he didn't tell you, you can wipe your rear with toilet paper, then you really can't?



Doesn't fish has meat?

Is it a "meat"? Sure. In a general sense. A red meat? No. Lamb? No. Beef? No. Swine? No.

[Arnold]

Having faith does not qualify as a lucky guess.

Lets put it this way, it is a blind answer. If you say you believe in God because the Bible says so, then why do you believe the Bible? Because it's God's word? It's a circular relationship, dead-end, absurd.

And going to church has nothing to do with salvation.

Most Christians think otherwise.

God's love revolves around the fact He sacrificed His son

Why would he need to sacrifice his son? He's so blood thirsty, just like the ancient people. That hints us that Christianity as all other religions is a man-made religion, created in man's likeness and image.

for us and gives us every opportunity to accept Him. He knows we can't earn heaven, but loves us enough to give us a gift, along with the gift of free will.

If you choose not to accept His gift, does that make Him unloving or uncaring to attach consequences to your choices?

When I place a bet at Pinnacle, it asks me to confirm my selection. I have a real proposition to which I have a free choice to answer yes or no. When Christians talk about "gifts", these aren't really gifts, but just empty words of no meaning in the real world. Remember, most people don't live in an imaginary world. If God really wanted to give someone a gift, he would come down to earth and deliver it himself, or whatever. How about a gift of eternal life from Santa? How does that sound to you? Why wouldn't you accept it?

I thought a logical thinker would understand and accept the concept that for each choice you make, there are concrete consequences that follow?

It depends. If there is nothing after death, then obviously no consequences can follow.

Peter, you are the rock that I will build my church upon ...

If you substitute "church" for "Christianity", then it becomes clear what Jesus was talking about. Jesus doesn't need churches, he needs followers. He didn't come to apostles and said "hey, lets go to church, brothas!!". He said, "leave everything and follow me".

[Arnold]

[QUOTE=Panic;696927]

So what does it mean? If he didn't tell you, you can wipe your rear with toilet paper, then you really can't?



Doesn't fish has meat?[/QUOTE]


Is it a "meat"? Sure. In a general sense. A red meat? No. Lamb? No. Beef? No. Swine? No.

So now you're making exceptions? Jesus didn't preach anything new to the jews. It was mostly the Torah law with some new revelations about eternal life. Torah doesn't forbid eating meat (except filthy animals).

[Panic]

[QUOTE=Arnold;696948]

So now you're making exceptions? Jesus didn't preach anything new to the jews. It was mostly the Torah law with some new revelations about eternal life. Torah doesn't forbid eating meat (except filthy animals).

And what filthy animals would those be? Swine?....What about shellfish? Anything there?

[Arnold]

[QUOTE=Panic;696950]

And what filthy animals would those be? Swine?....What about shellfish? Anything there?

There is nothing in the Bible that says you can't eat normal fish.

[Panic]

Thats what I thought. Torah, also says, dont eat sea animals that arent fish with fins and scales.

[Panic]

[QUOTE=Arnold;696966]

There is nothing in the Bible that says you can't eat normal fish.

Nice runaround. I made that point a few posts ago.

[Panic]

Getting tired, have a good day.

[Arnold]

Thats what I thought. Torah, also says, dont eat sea animals that arent fish with fins and scales.

Not sure how this benefits your argument.

[swede96]

Wow,de ja vu all over again.I listen to Coast to Coast when I sleep and Ian Punditt the weekend minister talk host talked alot about atheism last night.He's a cool guy and not a real bible belter and can relate well to just about any person from any sect of religion or non religion.

A devout former Christian old geezer called in saying he was now an atheist because his beloved wife just died.The guy was really biblically versed and now was on a crusade to debunk Christianity as a total myth.He even claimed there was no such a person as Jesus.

I can see why people turn against religion when so much goes wrong in their life and you see so much termoil and injustice in society.But why not have an insurance policy in the form of at least being an agnostic instead of an atheist where you are just uncertain if there is life after death.I wouldn't want to piss off the big guy upstairs just in case there is a big guy upstairs by bashing Christianity.

Brent, I think a lot of people mistake "agonist" for "athiest". Most don't understand that "athiest" doesn't mean that you simply aren't religious, it means that you firmly believe there is no god. If you talk to most people who say they are athiests, they are really agonistic.

[swede96]

Yeah, I can see how hitting somebody with a palm fronds or kicking them is exactly equal to cutting off someone's head or killing 3000 people in the WTC's.

Try to remember that Christians have murdered plenty of people in their day. There are fanatics in every religion. There are also good people in every religion...unfortunately, the fanatics get more attention.

[swede96]

Have your own faith and practice it alone and be a good person.

That, Brent, is exactly what I do.

[swede96]

Part of Christianity is sharing the word with others. Both with your words and your deeds. People here think it is admirable to share winning picks with others so they can make money. How much more valuable to share the word of the Lord with others so that they can be given the gift of eternal salvation?

(I don't think you can compare the value of the two, do you?)

But what if that person doesn't feel they need salvation? "Sharing" is one thing. Shoving your beliefs down someone else's throat is another. I used to work with a youth minister (I can't recall which denomination). He was always kind to me even though I made it clear that I don't believe in God. He let me know that I could always come to him for advice or with questions and that he wished I would participate in his church. He never once made me feel like a bad person for my beliefs or my faith. Then I've had people basically tell me I'm going to hell if I don't get to a church and repent asap....or leave me a prayer card as my tip. Umm...lady...I've tried praying for my rent to magically be paid. It doesn't work. I guess I won't be able to look over that prayer card since my electricity is getting shut off.

[swede96]

Your life is but a blink of an eye. That you believe this is all there is without having the faith to believe in more is quite depressing. But God will not give up on you until your dying breath -- always time for you to open your heart to Him.

Doubting Thomas of Biblical fame. Your attitude mimics his.

Moneyline, how does God feel about you being so hateful and nasty to the rest of his children? The fact that you seem so devout just pushes me farther away from God...if there even is one. You are exactly the type of Christian I have to laugh at. You're an asshole, but it's okay because you go to church on Sundays and you were baptized tlike a good boy?

[RageWizard]

Brent, I think a lot of people mistake "agonist" for "athiest". Most don't understand that "athiest" doesn't mean that you simply aren't religious, it means that you firmly believe there is no god. If you talk to most people who say they are athiests, they are really agonistic.

So which category am I in? I pay ab solutely no attention to the imaginary friend industry but I still believe that something put all the ingredients (namely Hydrogen and gravity) together and let it go. He, she, or it is now laying back and enjoying some godly margaritas or something like that. So what should I consider myself when the "witnesses" come over to the Casa de Wizard this summer?

[moneyline]

Church and baptism have nothing to do with salvation ... accepting the Lord does. It is nice when a youth minister treats you well and tells you believing in anything you want is wonderful. Ultimately, it is doing you a disservice. Once this blink of an eye life ends, his acceptance of you believing in anything will not cause God to take the same approach.

Imagine if you go to the airport and say you want a flight to Rome. The attendant says "all flights go to Rome." You rightly respond by saying "There is no way every plane in this airport is going to Rome." But the attendant replies, "They all do."

Wouldn't make much sense, would it? But that is what people here on earth want to believe. It doesn't matter what I put my faith into, or don't put my faith into -- IF there is a God and IF He is loving, everyone will get the same treatment upon death no matter what.

Highly illogical argument, wouldn't you agree?

-- as for the prayer card instead of $2, if you believe a few sawbucks is more vauable, in the long run, than eternal salvation, there is something conceptually missing in your evaluation ...

[Arnold]

Church and baptism have nothing to do with salvation ... accepting the Lord does.

And what exactly does "accepting the Lord" mean? It means church and baptism, etc.

It is nice when a youth minister treats you well and tells you believing in anything you want is wonderful. Ultimately, it is doing you a disservice. Once this blink of an eye life ends, his acceptance of you believing in anything will not cause God to take the same approach.

Imagine if you go to the airport and say you want a flight to Rome. The attendant says "all flights go to Rome." You rightly respond by saying "There is no way every plane in this airport is going to Rome." But the attendant replies, "They all do."

Wouldn't make much sense, would it? But that is what people here on earth want to believe. It doesn't matter what I put my faith into, or don't put my faith into -- IF there is a God and IF He is loving, everyone will get the same treatment upon death no matter what.

God doesn't need someone's faith. It's useless to him, if he's really God. It is good for politicians, because they want your vote and support, but God doesn't need all that...his divine afterall, his above all that, right?

Highly illogical argument, wouldn't you agree?

I don't agree. Faith has nothing to do with how good of a person you are.

-- as for the prayer card instead of $2, if you believe a few sawbucks is more vauable, in the long run, than eternal salvation, there is something conceptually missing in your evaluation ...

You have to realize, that there is no real salvation - it is imaginary. Come down to earth from your imaginary world.

[swede96]

Church and baptism have nothing to do with salvation ... accepting the Lord does. It is nice when a youth minister treats you well and tells you believing in anything you want is wonderful. Ultimately, it is doing you a disservice. Once this blink of an eye life ends, his acceptance of you believing in anything will not cause God to take the same approach.

He was kind and open minded enough to realize that shoving God down my throat wouldn't make me believe any more. Read the bible. You can't get into heaven wothout being baptised AND accepting the lord as your savior.

Imagine if you go to the airport and say you want a flight to Rome. The attendant says "all flights go to Rome." You rightly respond by saying "There is no way every plane in this airport is going to Rome." But the attendant replies, "They all do."

Wouldn't make much sense, would it? But that is what people here on earth want to believe. It doesn't matter what I put my faith into, or don't put my faith into -- IF there is a God and IF He is loving, everyone will get the same treatment upon death no matter what.

I'm not saying that.

Highly illogical argument, wouldn't you agree?

Highly illogical metephor, yes.

-- as for the prayer card instead of $2, if you believe a few sawbucks is more vauable, in the long run, than eternal salvation, there is something conceptually missing in your evaluation ...

That's the typical Christian thinking of: "I'm right, you're wrong. If you don't agree with me, there is something wrong with YOU." Give me a fvcking break. Do you really think a mass produced card with a common prayer printed on in is going to get me any closer to God? If anything, it makes me never want to be one of those people. We're not talking about $2. I distinctly remember one being a $50 tab which would be a $10 tip. Maybe that doesn't seem like much, but it adds up. People do this under the claim of wanting to "save" me, when you and I both know it is punishment for not believing. Like I said, I could pray all day...it won't get my rent paid. It won't keep the heat on in my house. Furthermore, I find it VERY offensive that people even think they have the right to ask me as their waitress if I've "found Jesus". That's none of their damn business. My faith is my business. I may not have the same faith as you, but I have plenty.

Now, again I ask...what do you think your God would say about you being such a nasty, mean-spirited person?

[swede96]

P.S. I think I love Arnold. He is one smart dude.

[Arnold]

P.S. I think I love Arnold. He is one smart dude.

Thanks for the compliment