Horse Racing questions and answers

[JBEX]

thursday by army mule @
baq/gulfstream/laurel/del mar

nothing

[JBEX]

***

[JBEX]

pretty much in line! I cannot complain!

Seize the Grey '26 Stud Fee Set

Gainesway Farm has announced its stud fees for the 2026 breeding season, and Seize the Grey’s fee has been set at $25,000. That slight decrease from year one to two is the industry standard and absolutely to be expected as it tends to be easier to attract mares to a stallion’s book in their first year at stud vs. their second when breeders have shifted focus to the next crop of first-year stallions.

makes sense why fees often go down for a stallion's 2nd season

[batt33]

see what your saying about deals and the logic behind them
..will be interesting to see what they decide to do .. with yesterday's poor result ,and being it's late in the year, have to think they might consider breeding her next year

I saw army mule's fee went up $5k which is back to what it was in 2024..nice perspective you gave of how it might have a positive meaning considering the market level he's at ..AM fee dropped from 10 to $7.5k in his second season so we'll see what happens with STG

pretty much in line! I cannot complain!

Seize the Grey '26 Stud Fee Set

Gainesway Farm has announced its stud fees for the 2026 breeding season, and Seize the Grey’s fee has been set at $25,000. That slight decrease from year one to two is the industry standard and absolutely to be expected as it tends to be easier to attract mares to a stallion’s book in their first year at stud vs. their second when breeders have shifted focus to the next crop of first-year stallions.

[batt33]

Sovereignty scratched and Fierceness with a post that most likely gets him pinned early which he has hated in the past gives this Classic a chance to pay off well.
Got the pp’s for Saturday and will try to start looking at Saturdays card tonight. Going to Laurel with 7 friends from back in the day. Going to be a blast and need to find those guys and you guys some winners.

It's going to be fun!

Have an awesome time this Saturday! sounds like a great time!

[batt33]

etwe
Really interesting insight, especially about spotting horses coming off long layoffs and the fitness angle. That “third time off a layoff” tip makes a lot of sense, and you’re right, economics definitely plays a big role for smaller trainers. Appreciate you sharing that experience, not something you hear explained that clearly very often.

One of my favorite angles was at the Fresno Fair for this exact reason. TBH when you get to the top races all the horses look good. The Fresno Fair was part of the summer fair circuit but there was about 6-8 weeks between the last stop and the Fresno meet. You could most definitely so who brought fit horses and were ready to fire right off the bat.

[batt33]

Good luck Batt. I get the bitter sweet thought. Time to reflect on all that he has brought the ownership and stable and not worry too much about winning but emphasizing the overall appreciation of the horse and all he has brought you. Of course you want to win, but if you don’t, it’s a tip of the cap and a big thank you for all he has brought to everyone involved.
You mentioned how much your parents got out of his races and success. You can’t buy that. All you can do is appreciate the heck out of it and realize the rare air he and others have brought you. It’s a part of the game that many never feel. And while I felt plenty of it in my time there, it was never near that level.
Glad you and your family have enjoyed it. It’s great stuff, as you know.

Good luck on Saturday. We will be rooting for you.

Thanks STR yes getting to enjoy the ride with my parents has been pretty cool and surreal as with Seize the Grey. The cool thing is get to watch the babies down the road,,, a bunch of mares in foal by STG are selling next weekend at keenland ..

and speaking of SNC here is a morning video.... looking better in the paddock schooling " he tends to get excited" and kinda watching what they re doing around the mouth. When I was down at his last race it looked like both Blacker and the assistant were not happy with something in that regards when saddling him.

https://cdnb-media.myracehorse.com/b...1771119764.mp4

[JBEX]

Sovereignty scratched and Fierceness with a post that most likely gets him pinned early which he has hated in the past gives this Classic a chance to pay off well.
Got the pp’s for Saturday and will try to start looking at Saturdays card tonight. Going to Laurel with 7 friends from back in the day. Going to be a blast and need to find those guys and you guys some winners.

yes a good scenario for a nice price hit .. sounds like a nice afternoon with your buddies on saturday

[str]

Sovereignty scratched and Fierceness with a post that most likely gets him pinned early which he has hated in the past gives this Classic a chance to pay off well.
Got the pp’s for Saturday and will try to start looking at Saturdays card tonight. Going to Laurel with 7 friends from back in the day. Going to be a blast and need to find those guys and you guys some winners.

[S0BRiquet]

As for Gulfstream Park, I have always thought, having listened to some Hall of Fame names from the 60’s 70’s etc. that running at post time was as important to not only the integrity of the game but it gave off the perception that things were professional. Some of the biggest names in the business would talk about that back then and I was like a kid in a candy shop just listening and learning.
Gulfstream Park does what they do for personnel gain ONLY. I have to be honest. I would not be caught betting into that pool if my life depended on it.
it is the ultimate slap in the face to any fan who wagers or attends there.
It might sound petty but when I trained my horse ( again, how I was taught), and it was prepped to run at 1 pm. That didn’t mean 1:15 pm it meant 1 pm sharp.

Dick Dutrow’s daily schedule was as on time as a German subway schedule. Not 1 minute off. Attention to detail.
This 10 minutes late crap is not just to squeeze every nickel out of the handle but to give the CAW’s more time to analyze the pools. But we aren’t supposed to realize that. What an inefficient shit hole that place is. I can’t believe people actually bet money there.

Does it show that I am as full to the brim as I can be from all the Bull crap that race tracks are doing to the fan base?

So much about this sport keeps you shaking your head right? As I sit here with the rainy day blues (even have Dylan going in the background)I'm thinking of doing another self-imposed moratorium after the Breeders Cup. I love the BC too much and already have too much invested but it does feel good to come back at it with renewed spirit. Meanwhile, I say the "blues" because of yesterdays news re: Sovereignty and now we no longer have the "Race of the Century" to look forward to. It really is agonizing but what can you do... like Bill Mott said "you don't see it coming and there's nothing you can do about it". True. And you had to know he prob was not going to run come Sat. Mr Mott has that reputation so in my mind yest I counted him out and this mornings confirmation sealed all that.
So hang in there and let's hope the bad guys go away one day. But I'll be like Han Solo and ask you to not tell me the odds on that one.

[JBEX]

wednesday by army mule @
baq/gulfstream/laurel/keeneland/santa anita


keeneland and santa anita are done ..if any are running at dmr tomorrow,friday or saturday will mention (latter two days the breeders cup)

nothing today

[ProSportsEdge]

The only reason I can think of that would be a 0% chance of winning would be if a horse simply is not fit enough to win. That would have to be a horse that has not run in maybe a year or more. Even then , they certainly can win but every now and then you get a horse that just will not work fast enough in the morning to get the lung capacity up to where it needs to be to win. Galloping a horse to get fit only goes so far. In these cases, seeing the horse carrying a lot of extra weight in the post parade is a clear sign. If they are fat , they will rarely be able to run well enough too win. But if you meant did I ever try to not win a race the answer is NO! At Charlestown , many trainers run there horses fit. A great angle there is to bet a horse 3rd time off an extended layoff.Especially if the trainer only has a few horses. It is simple economics.It costs money per day to train a horse up to a race. Ronnie Brown, Runco, Walters etc. can do this . But some of the old timers there can not. They will run 4 1/2 for fitness . Are they trying to win? Probably. But after 2 starts they can run that distance no problem.Pay attention to that . It will happen.

The claiming game was my strength . It is very hard but I loved it. Leatherbury , Dutrow, and Tammaro were masters at it in Maryland when I was learning and when I competed against them. Not so much Bud Delp. Don't get me wrong , he was a brilliant horseman and the job he did with Spectacular Bid was tremendous but when I started out , he was predictable with his placement of claimers and I had plenty of success cherry picking him in the claim box. He let me know about it too.Those 4 guys were as good as claiming trainers get!

Really interesting insight, especially about spotting horses coming off long layoffs and the fitness angle. That “third time off a layoff” tip makes a lot of sense, and you’re right, economics definitely plays a big role for smaller trainers. Appreciate you sharing that experience, not something you hear explained that clearly very often.

[str]

KInda bittersweet " straight no chaser "makes his last start in the breeders cup sprint....
Blacker with some thoughts

https://cdnb-media.myracehorse.com/b...1500113345.mp4

The final workout....
Straight No Chaser had his final breeze this morning at Santa Anita Park, covering four furlongs in :49 flat while under a very tight hold. finding company was unintentional, but assistant trainer and rider Juan Landeros did everything in his power to keep him from doing more than we wanted.

This was no doubt a bittersweet moment being the final work of Straight No Chaser's career, but there will be plenty of excitement this week as our champ gets to defend his title in the Breeders’ Cup Sprint.

Good luck Batt. I get the bitter sweet thought. Time to reflect on all that he has brought the ownership and stable and not worry too much about winning but emphasizing the overall appreciation of the horse and all he has brought you. Of course you want to win, but if you don’t, it’s a tip of the cap and a big thank you for all he has brought to everyone involved.
You mentioned how much your parents got out of his races and success. You can’t buy that. All you can do is appreciate the heck out of it and realize the rare air he and others have brought you. It’s a part of the game that many never feel. And while I felt plenty of it in my time there, it was never near that level.
Glad you and your family have enjoyed it. It’s great stuff, as you know.

Good luck on Saturday. We will be rooting for you.

[batt33]

KInda bittersweet " straight no chaser "makes his last start in the breeders cup sprint....
Blacker with some thoughts

https://cdnb-media.myracehorse.com/b...1500113345.mp4

The final workout....
Straight No Chaser had his final breeze this morning at Santa Anita Park, covering four furlongs in :49 flat while under a very tight hold. finding company was unintentional, but assistant trainer and rider Juan Landeros did everything in his power to keep him from doing more than we wanted.

This was no doubt a bittersweet moment being the final work of Straight No Chaser's career, but there will be plenty of excitement this week as our champ gets to defend his title in the Breeders’ Cup Sprint.

[batt33]

I wanted to be sure and give a BIG shoutout to the Stronach group who has not only done their best to destroy California racing, Maryland racing, and currently working on destroying Florida racing, but have now landed in court by way of a class action suit for joining and participating in the CAW betting. Of course, they are not in court alone but let's give credit where credit is due.

The CAW betting groups are doing everything they can to chase fans away in droves with their unethical betting behavior and rebates for the chosen few. Under their savvy guidance, they are working diligently to destroy horse racing in the United States. They have information that other bettors do not have access to. I should say allegedly although there is clear evidence of that apparently.

With talk of betting after the race has started as well as manipulating the pools, I would think that everyone would want to go to the race track and spend a day getting screwed. You know, bet a 6-1 shot and when it goes into the 1st turn with the lead it flashes down to 9-5. Oh what fun.
Maybe catch an NBA game afterwards for the full body experience.

It makes me second guess ( NOT !)why I left the track after 25 years of playing the game straight while watching cheaters prosper at every turn starting in the very late 80's when the lab testing for racing was so far behind and so underfunded to try and keep up with the influx of new drugs and cocktails that appeared almost monthly.
People that rarely won, were winning bigly. Those that were regular winners, some how all slumped at the same time. AMAZING !

In all seriousness, I'm sickened by what is happening to racing. It hurts to see it. For the longest time I was proud to say that I participated in a game that was much more honest than it was ever given credit for. As of now, I cannot defend it and quite frankly, cringe when it is mentioned to me.

What a crying shame.

I couldn't agree more STR.... stronach especially the daughter has torpedoed ca racing.....

[str]

Thanks for posting this str. I just went over to Bloodhorse to get a clue - - sad to see this but I'm not shocked based on the many drops in odds halfway thru a given race. I've had a few winners this past year that were - let's say - ML 12-1, down to 10-1 as they load, and halfway thru race they take the lead and now 3-1... or 9/5 in one case. So maybe that is the reason but I'll never know. FWIW, I've never liked or trusted Frank Stronach. Strictly about the bottom-line and nothing but,, at least that is my view of him. I don't like to beat-up on the powers that be within HorseRacing because they make the sport happen but this guy is one of the few that I just can't get behind (I will refrain from my short list)for his dubious dealings since I've been aware of him.
Last comment = I am sad to see NYRA listed in there as they seem to be the most organized out of the whole bunch - e.g. - if they post that R5 will go off at 3:12 then dammit it goes off at 3:12! By comparison the Gulfstreams and all others are casually late by 6,7,8 minutes and as a rule end up going off at the exact moment of another track. Just coincidence I'm sure, right? ... imo it is games being played between tracks who may not like each other but any which way you cut it, it stinks!

As for Gulfstream Park, I have always thought, having listened to some Hall of Fame names from the 60’s 70’s etc. that running at post time was as important to not only the integrity of the game but it gave off the perception that things were professional. Some of the biggest names in the business would talk about that back then and I was like a kid in a candy shop just listening and learning.
Gulfstream Park does what they do for personnel gain ONLY. I have to be honest. I would not be caught betting into that pool if my life depended on it.
it is the ultimate slap in the face to any fan who wagers or attends there.
It might sound petty but when I trained my horse ( again, how I was taught), and it was prepped to run at 1 pm. That didn’t mean 1:15 pm it meant 1 pm sharp.

Dick Dutrow’s daily schedule was as on time as a German subway schedule. Not 1 minute off. Attention to detail.
This 10 minutes late crap is not just to squeeze every nickel out of the handle but to give the CAW’s more time to analyze the pools. But we aren’t supposed to realize that. What an inefficient shit hole that place is. I can’t believe people actually bet money there.

Does it show that I am as full to the brim as I can be from all the Bull crap that race tracks are doing to the fan base?

[str]

Thanks for posting this str. I just went over to Bloodhorse to get a clue - - sad to see this but I'm not shocked based on the many drops in odds halfway thru a given race. I've had a few winners this past year that were - let's say - ML 12-1, down to 10-1 as they load, and halfway thru race they take the lead and now 3-1... or 9/5 in one case. So maybe that is the reason but I'll never know. FWIW, I've never liked or trusted Frank Stronach. Strictly about the bottom-line and nothing but,, at least that is my view of him. I don't like to beat-up on the powers that be within HorseRacing because they make the sport happen but this guy is one of the few that I just can't get behind (I will refrain from my short list)for his dubious dealings since I've been aware of him.
Last comment = I am sad to see NYRA listed in there as they seem to be the most organized out of the whole bunch - e.g. - if they post that R5 will go off at 3:12 then dammit it goes off at 3:12! By comparison the Gulfstreams and all others are casually late by 6,7,8 minutes and as a rule end up going off at the exact moment of another track. Just coincidence I'm sure, right? ... imo it is games being played between tracks who may not like each other but any which way you cut it, it stinks!

The game has never needed a commissioner more than it does now. Won't happen unless the only people that hold ALL the power revolt. That would be the FANS.

The greed is off the charts and no one is held accountable.

Maybe if the fan base wins this case against the CAW's and some ownership, they will finally realize that they have always held all the power but never believed they did. That would create a need for track solidarity and would create a management commissioner that would be there to build the game, the brand, and share profits similar to the NFL which would help everyone, especially the fan base.
But until then, this every man to himself attitude with state to state racing that has existed forever will remain. It's a dog eat dog atmosphere that helps the few, hurts the majority and the fans are the recipient of all the downfall.

I don't claim to know much, but what I do know, I really know. Horse racing and all it's moving parts are one of those things I do understand. Basically spent my life in it or around it.

[JBEX]

sunday by army mule @
baq/gulfstream/laurel/santa anita

boldface running


nothing

[S0BRiquet]

Thanks for posting this str. I just went over to Bloodhorse to get a clue - - sad to see this but I'm not shocked based on the many drops in odds halfway thru a given race. I've had a few winners this past year that were - let's say - ML 12-1, down to 10-1 as they load, and halfway thru race they take the lead and now 3-1... or 9/5 in one case. So maybe that is the reason but I'll never know. FWIW, I've never liked or trusted Frank Stronach. Strictly about the bottom-line and nothing but,, at least that is my view of him. I don't like to beat-up on the powers that be within HorseRacing because they make the sport happen but this guy is one of the few that I just can't get behind (I will refrain from my short list)for his dubious dealings since I've been aware of him.
Last comment = I am sad to see NYRA listed in there as they seem to be the most organized out of the whole bunch - e.g. - if they post that R5 will go off at 3:12 then dammit it goes off at 3:12! By comparison the Gulfstreams and all others are casually late by 6,7,8 minutes and as a rule end up going off at the exact moment of another track. Just coincidence I'm sure, right? ... imo it is games being played between tracks who may not like each other but any which way you cut it, it stinks!

[str]

I wanted to be sure and give a BIG shoutout to the Stronach group who has not only done their best to destroy California racing, Maryland racing, and currently working on destroying Florida racing, but have now landed in court by way of a class action suit for joining and participating in the CAW betting. Of course, they are not in court alone but let's give credit where credit is due.

The CAW betting groups are doing everything they can to chase fans away in droves with their unethical betting behavior and rebates for the chosen few. Under their savvy guidance, they are working diligently to destroy horse racing in the United States. They have information that other bettors do not have access to. I should say allegedly although there is clear evidence of that apparently.

With talk of betting after the race has started as well as manipulating the pools, I would think that everyone would want to go to the race track and spend a day getting screwed. You know, bet a 6-1 shot and when it goes into the 1st turn with the lead it flashes down to 9-5. Oh what fun.
Maybe catch an NBA game afterwards for the full body experience.

It makes me second guess ( NOT !)why I left the track after 25 years of playing the game straight while watching cheaters prosper at every turn starting in the very late 80's when the lab testing for racing was so far behind and so underfunded to try and keep up with the influx of new drugs and cocktails that appeared almost monthly.
People that rarely won, were winning bigly. Those that were regular winners, some how all slumped at the same time. AMAZING !

In all seriousness, I'm sickened by what is happening to racing. It hurts to see it. For the longest time I was proud to say that I participated in a game that was much more honest than it was ever given credit for. As of now, I cannot defend it and quite frankly, cringe when it is mentioned to me.

What a crying shame.

[JBEX]

saturday by army mule @
baq/gulfstream/laurel/keeneland/santa anita

boldface running

keeneland 1 (1pm)
1 backstretch rose (10-1)

lot of 1's ..maybe a good omen

[JBEX]

ARMY MULE-J LA TACHE, CH C
BLAKE-ALBINA THOROUGHBRED SERVICES LLC, AGENT II
KY
11
Video


KENNETH MCPEEK, AGT.
$370,000.
Half to Pam Pam. Pretty good ROI on this colt!

yeah I agree .. for the info fetched a lot imo

[batt33]

Pretty interesting so far from one sold at 4 and the other at 60.. with 3 RNA's. Except for the first hip, Most of the others have been light on the dam's side. I haven't looked at the later hips yet.

2023 was the first year they raised his fee (7.5>12.5)
so he figures to have gotten a better bunch of mares..next year will be interesting to see how his 2yo's fare

ARMY MULE-J LA TACHE, CH C
BLAKE-ALBINA THOROUGHBRED SERVICES LLC, AGENT II
KY
11
Video


KENNETH MCPEEK, AGT.
$370,000.
Half to Pam Pam. Pretty good ROI on this colt!

[JBEX]

friday by army mule @
baq/gulfstream/laurel/keeneland/santa anita

boldface running

nothing

[JBEX]

thursday army mule @
baq/gulfstream/laurel/keeneland/

nothing

[JBEX]

wednesday by army mule @
baq/gulfstream/laurel/keeneland/santa anita

boldface tracks running


keeneland 3 (2:04)
4 colonel caliente (5-2)

[JBEX]

Pretty interesting so far from one sold at 4 and the other at 60.. with 3 RNA's. Except for the first hip, Most of the others have been light on the dam's side. I haven't looked at the later hips yet.

2023 was the first year they raised his fee (7.5>12.5)
so he figures to have gotten a better bunch of mares..next year will be interesting to see how his 2yo's fare

[batt33]

wasn't aware and saw what you said on their sales page .. interesting to see what they go for over the next few days

Pretty interesting so far from one sold at 4 and the other at 60.. with 3 RNA's. Except for the first hip, Most of the others have been light on the dam's side. I haven't looked at the later hips yet.

[batt33]

I would hope so. Some of those prices were way higher than anticipated.
Unbelievable.

Yes for sure, I saw around 5 PS horses for a variety of prices. Interesting to see some of the big name consignors do some post sale sales at the lower end. I think the owners of the horses were expecting an active market.

[str]

I saw 15 "army mules with 2 outs at the " Fasig tipton sale that started today. Market looks a little soft so far compared to the last few sales.

I would hope so. Some of those prices were way higher than anticipated.
Unbelievable.

[JBEX]

I saw 15 "army mules with 2 outs at the " Fasig tipton sale that started today. Market looks a little soft so far compared to the last few sales.

wasn't aware and saw what you said on their sales page .. interesting to see what they go for over the next few days

[JBEX]

JBEX, all kinds of agreements are made..... Here are a couple of more,
A person has a quality mare.... but no farm. They make a deal with the farm... in return for board and care they will split the profits of the foal.

A farm with a lower stud fee for their horse is trying to drum up interest ( the more offspring, the better chance of getting a nice runner)so they make a deal for an even lower price or "free" ...based on quality of the mare.

sometimes the "elite studs" are just out of reach so they will look along the same"blood lines" or "Nick's" to find a sire that is more affordable.
On a side note just looking at the stud fees for next year "army mule" is one of the few "mid level sires" to have his stud fee go up
from 20,000 to 25,000. most have remained the same or gone down. Alot of the farms have reported out already kinda interested to see where "Sieze the Grey " ends up. Gainsway has not reported yet. He was at 30,000 last season I suspect it will go to 20 to 25.

I agree it would be awesome for her to go to a top flight stallion!

see what your saying about deals and the logic behind them
..will be interesting to see what they decide to do .. with yesterday's poor result ,and being it's late in the year, have to think they might consider breeding her next year

I saw army mule's fee went up $5k which is back to what it was in 2024..nice perspective you gave of how it might have a positive meaning considering the market level he's at ..AM fee dropped from 10 to $7.5k in his second season so we'll see what happens with STG

[batt33]

I saw 15 "army mules with 2 outs at the " Fasig tipton sale that started today. Market looks a little soft so far compared to the last few sales.

[batt33]

I'm a little confused with this batt and str..I guess if the mare is owned by multiple partners that's an issue also ..but if that's not the case you are saying a couple of possibilities are two seasons with a coin flip or some % split of both or the only foal(s) by the farm and mare owner .. didn't think of it before but now that you linked the secretariat story (which is pretty cool and believe I may have heard at some point) it really does make sense to try two matings..I'm sure a lot of thought and science goes into deciding which elite sire might fit best and then of course they have to be willing to make a deal.. maybe they just land on a $50-100k (or possibly less than that ) stallion but I would think with her race record an elite stallion would be appealing ..how cool would it be for gun runner,justify,into mischief or curlin to be the daddy of her first foal

JBEX, all kinds of agreements are made..... Here are a couple of more,
A person has a quality mare.... but no farm. They make a deal with the farm... in return for board and care they will split the profits of the foal.

A farm with a lower stud fee for their horse is trying to drum up interest ( the more offspring, the better chance of getting a nice runner)so they make a deal for an even lower price or "free" ...based on quality of the mare.

sometimes the "elite studs" are just out of reach so they will look along the same"blood lines" or "Nick's" to find a sire that is more affordable.
On a side note just looking at the stud fees for next year "army mule" is one of the few "mid level sires" to have his stud fee go up
from 20,000 to 25,000. most have remained the same or gone down. Alot of the farms have reported out already kinda interested to see where "Sieze the Grey " ends up. Gainsway has not reported yet. He was at 30,000 last season I suspect it will go to 20 to 25.

I agree it would be awesome for her to go to a top flight stallion!

[batt33]

I saw Batt's response. He is right about what he said.

So deals are made more often than you might think. It can be an equity stake in a foal, It can be two people saying, we breed them 2 years in a row. Flip a coin on who gets year one and year two. All sorts of stuff like that.

BTW, there was a deal like that coin flip years ago .

Check this one out.

https://www.secretariat.com/the-toss...f-secretariat/

cool story!