Horse Racing questions and answers

[JBEX]

For me (from a handicap perspective) It's would be a toss out race..... wasn't happy from the beginning.... didn't use alot of energy( unlike the turf paradise army mule for instance)and Jockey change coming.

Finishing 3rd or 4th indicates energy being used up..... maybe we are saying the same thing lol

I look at it as a sub 1:12 workout if you feel that it's a toss race and he could run well in the bluegrass..he wasn't used hard for about the final 3/8ths and yes if he was competitive through the whole race don't think he'd be back in 2 weeks..if it was 40 years ago maybe

[batt33]

but would you agree str that this is a different situation than if he had finished 3rd or 4th within 3-5 lengths and needed the points to get to the derby ; than coming back so soon might be more of a strain ? just trying to look at this from a handicapping perspective

For me (from a handicap perspective) It's would be a toss out race..... wasn't happy from the beginning.... didn't use alot of energy( unlike the turf paradise army mule for instance)and Jockey change coming.

Finishing 3rd or 4th indicates energy being used up..... maybe we are saying the same thing lol

[JBEX]

Hey, it's Wayne friggin Lukas. It's what he has done for decades.

For me... it's Watch and learn.

but would you agree str that this is a different situation than if he had finished 3rd or 4th within 3-5 lengths and needed the points to get to the derby ; than coming back so soon might be more of a strain ? just trying to look at this from a handicapping perspective

[batt33]

Munny Problem Breeze Report

https://cdnb-media.myracehorse.com/blog/video/MunnyProblemMalibuBonnie2023MunningsOutside0327251_1743171766763/MP4/MunnyProblemMalibuBonnie2023MunningsOutside0327251_1743171766763.mp4

Munny Problem was back at it breezing yesterday, working his first 3/8 at Wavertree. Farm trainer Ciaran Dunne noted that he put him on the inside this week to give him that experience of being in tight on the rail after having been on the outside in recent breezes. He seemed to handle being inside just fine.

Interesting to see the position of the jockeys arms on both horses as they go around the far turn...

[batt33]

Black Tie Optional Breeze Report

https://cdnb-media.myracehorse.com/blog/video/BlackTieOptionalStylishly2023NotThisTimeChestnutNativeBrewSpanxamillion2023YauponBay032725_1743170857953/MP4/BlackTieOptionalStylishly2023NotThisTimeChestnutNativeBrewSpanxamillion2023YauponBay032725_1743170857953.mp4

Black Tie Optional and Native Brew worked in company again yesterday at Wavertree Stables, breezing their first 3/8. Enjoy the above video with commentary from farm trainer Ciaran Dunne.

[batt33]

by army mule .. friday

aqu R7 #2 army gal (5-2)
@ 4:25

linda rice horse we looked at..returned in 6 days and stretched out off a huge win to finish distant 4th of 7.. won her debut the race before the huge win so was 2 for 2 going into that stakes..favorite here in a 6 horse field where the highest ml is 6-1 ..can't get any more balanced than that

Dang it scratched....

[batt33]

Hey, it's Wayne friggin Lukas. It's what he has done for decades.

For me... it's Watch and learn.

For sure! I know he caught some heat from the way he trained STG last year.... and that kinda turned out okay!!

[batt33]

With horses that have trouble at the gate , the vast majority of the time it is nerves and the horse just not liking the gate or a lasting memory of something the horse really hated. Working out of the gate especially with the bell, in most cases, makes the horse worse. Basically, it scares the living crap out of them.

What you want to do is take them back to the gate in as quiet a stetting as possible, typically late in the morning when a lot of the action and noise has settled down, and let the gate crew work with the horse by handling it, rubbing it's head, gently talking to it and lightly petting it. Preferably a female rider if you employ one ( which I always made it a point to do). Then quietly load the horse with the doors open for a couple of days, back it in and out and finally, back it out and let it walk away from the side of the gate. After a couple of successful trips doing that, you take the next step and slowly hand close the gate with the horse in it, all the while talking softly and reassuring the horse. Once that is acceptable to the horse, you hand open the doors, NO BELL, and back it out and let it go home happy and more confident. This can take 2-3-4 weeks but it means everything so it in my mind was priority # 1.
When I did that, I did not consider when to run back until we were all satisfied the horse was much better in the gate. You can still be training the horse with workouts but never from the gate. Also, switch grooms to a girl groom if possible. That works almost every time.
Softer voice, softer hands, softer demeanor. It can work miracles Batt. If you can get all that accomplished, the horse will gain weight, have a better attitude, etc. Then, fix the workouts to let this horse win a workout a couple of times. Maybe from behind and close inside, or split horses, whatever the horses strengths are. Then, if the form allows, and it usually does, double drop , or more if necessary, the horse in class and if there is a competent girl rider, use her. Of course, she will have worked the horse a couple of times prior in those fixed workouts. Then, enter and hope everything goes as planned. If it does, positive results typically follow.
You can even go further by getting a radio and put it on a mellow channel and hang it on the horses stall and let it play every morning. Nice calm, relaxing music. Preferably a female singer. Joanie Mitchell, Lulu, etc. was big back in the day. Not my thing but the necrotic horses loved it. Sorry Janis, you music was to be played around the other side of the barn to some bad ass horse that wanted to hear that.

Girl groom, hot walker, exercise rider, and jockey. What was there not to like. See ya in the winners circle.

Thanks for the detailed explanation STR! I kinda knew some of the details from just watching the training video's from MRH.... but you opened my eyes to more!

[batt33]

2nd time .. got it

Right on! glad you could decipher my tip!

[Easy-Rider 66]

Didn't know that. Sorry EZ.

my bad I should have mentioned that in my question. THX again

[str]

I looked at the Army mule tonight race 8 turfway.... it seems to always have gate trouble.... with just one work out of the gate .... just wondering why there isn't more..... an STR question for sure!

With horses that have trouble at the gate , the vast majority of the time it is nerves and the horse just not liking the gate or a lasting memory of something the horse really hated. Working out of the gate especially with the bell, in most cases, makes the horse worse. Basically, it scares the living crap out of them.

What you want to do is take them back to the gate in as quiet a stetting as possible, typically late in the morning when a lot of the action and noise has settled down, and let the gate crew work with the horse by handling it, rubbing it's head, gently talking to it and lightly petting it. Preferably a female rider if you employ one ( which I always made it a point to do). Then quietly load the horse with the doors open for a couple of days, back it in and out and finally, back it out and let it walk away from the side of the gate. After a couple of successful trips doing that, you take the next step and slowly hand close the gate with the horse in it, all the while talking softly and reassuring the horse. Once that is acceptable to the horse, you hand open the doors, NO BELL, and back it out and let it go home happy and more confident. This can take 2-3-4 weeks but it means everything so it in my mind was priority # 1.
When I did that, I did not consider when to run back until we were all satisfied the horse was much better in the gate. You can still be training the horse with workouts but never from the gate. Also, switch grooms to a girl groom if possible. That works almost every time.
Softer voice, softer hands, softer demeanor. It can work miracles Batt. If you can get all that accomplished, the horse will gain weight, have a better attitude, etc. Then, fix the workouts to let this horse win a workout a couple of times. Maybe from behind and close inside, or split horses, whatever the horses strengths are. Then, if the form allows, and it usually does, double drop , or more if necessary, the horse in class and if there is a competent girl rider, use her. Of course, she will have worked the horse a couple of times prior in those fixed workouts. Then, enter and hope everything goes as planned. If it does, positive results typically follow.
You can even go further by getting a radio and put it on a mellow channel and hang it on the horses stall and let it play every morning. Nice calm, relaxing music. Preferably a female singer. Joanie Mitchell, Lulu, etc. was big back in the day. Not my thing but the necrotic horses loved it. Sorry Janis, you music was to be played around the other side of the barn to some bad ass horse that wanted to hear that.

Girl groom, hot walker, exercise rider, and jockey. What was there not to like. See ya in the winners circle.

[str]

OK STR race was run on the tapeta so off the turf. THX for your take.

Didn't know that. Sorry EZ.

[str]

good to hear batt..was thinking with him being about 3 lengths off the pace at the first 3 calls and them going 1:11 through 6f in his last race maybe could be looked at as a nice workout..he's got 1 less race (if you view his last that way) as the typical horse going to a final leg derby prep..obviously they were looking for a big effort in the la derby but a return in 2 weeks from a fitness perspective doesn't seem crazy to me under these circumstances

Hey, it's Wayne friggin Lukas. It's what he has done for decades.

For me... it's Watch and learn.

[JBEX]

yes it is...ah yes that's the trainer!

ok batt figured it out ..thanks for the help

hopefully won't forget what I did ..may try one more to reinforce

2nd time .. got it

[JBEX]

wired field and won by 10 lengths @ 3-5 ..hand ridden near the end

while I wouldn't play #1 on top could play him underneath..like the post and he gets back in about 1/3 the time of his short layoff ..seems to always put in an effort with wide and bad trips mixed in..other for me would be #6..war front dam sire and jock good on turf..for turf paradise cost a decent amount and not up for sale with the optional condition ..jock a decent turf rider..regular works since late january and guess they may have been considering dmr for him as a 2yo which is certainly a positive in my eyes



.

ok batt figured it out ..thanks for the help

hopefully won't forget what I did ..may try one more to reinforce

[JBEX]

by army mule .. friday

aqu R7 #2 army gal (5-2)
@ 4:25

linda rice horse we looked at..returned in 6 days and stretched out off a huge win to finish distant 4th of 7.. won her debut the race before the huge win so was 2 for 2 going into that stakes..favorite here in a 6 horse field where the highest ml is 6-1 ..can't get any more balanced than that

[batt33]

incredible and sad at the same time about the derby bound horse considering how long he's ridden for..think I've passed that name (trainer) along the way ..his name is jon arnett (had to look it up)

yes it is...ah yes that's the trainer!

[JBEX]

I remember watching Kenny Tohill at Bay Meadows and Golden gate...... uhm I was still in High school... I remember a few years back he had his one chance for the derby ..but the horse passed away....... I was so so bummed for all the connections..... for a journeyman jockey to have the one chance for the dance still gets me....
I see he is at Tampa Bay right now basically riding for one trainer... James ardnt? (sp)

incredible and sad at the same time about the derby bound horse considering how long he's ridden for..think I've passed that name (trainer) along the way ..his name is jon arnett (had to look it up)

[batt33]

that's probably about 100 years of riding experience with those 3 lol ..sure they'll find a good match and hopefully he gets a shot

I remember watching Kenny Tohill at Bay Meadows and Golden gate...... uhm I was still in High school... I remember a few years back he had his one chance for the derby ..but the horse passed away....... I was so so bummed for all the connections..... for a journeyman jockey to have the one chance for the dance still gets me....
I see he is at Tampa Bay right now basically riding for one trainer... James ardnt? (sp)

[batt33]

I looked at the Army mule tonight race 8 turfway.... it seems to always have gate trouble.... with just one work out of the gate .... just wondering why there isn't more..... an STR question for sure!

[JBEX]

Probably what Lukas is thinking, With Tyler out with the ankle injury I hope they find a older gentler jockey... rafi, Mike Smith et al.... okay give Kenny Tohill a shot!!

that's probably about 100 years of riding experience with those 3 lol ..sure they'll find a good match and hopefully he gets a shot

[JBEX]

It would be awesome if there was an "Army Mule" who fit the bill for the race!

haven't tried the double quote but thanks for the tip will give it a shot later ..would've been the perfect opportunity here

finished his 3 race career with the carter handicap so appropriate distance for sure..believe his first two starts (w/o looking) were at gulfstream but will double check later..good fit for the name

didn't look at the race yet..be a pick on it for sure regardless of opinion level

[batt33]

good to hear batt..was thinking with him being about 3 lengths off the pace at the first 3 calls and them going 1:11 through 6f in his last race maybe could be looked at as a nice workout..he's got 1 less race (if you view his last that way) as the typical horse going to a final leg derby prep..obviously they were looking for a big effort in the la derby but a return in 2 weeks from a fitness perspective doesn't seem crazy to me under these circumstances

Probably what Lukas is thinking, With Tyler out with the ankle injury I hope they find a older gentler jockey... rafi, Mike Smith et al.... okay give Kenny Tohill a shot!!

[batt33]

they have the "army mule stakes " on the undercard of florida derby day ..7f listed for 4up ..pretty cool he's thought of that way

It would be awesome if there was an "Army Mule" who fit the bill for the race!

[JBEX]

they have the "army mule stakes " on the undercard of florida derby day ..7f listed for 4up ..pretty cool he's thought of that way

[JBEX]

well this is interesting.....
Caldera Update

We just got off the phone with trainer D. Wayne Lukas, who confirmed that he would like to try Caldera in next Saturday’s $1.25-million G1 Blue Grass S.at Keeneland.

He reports that Caldera looked good jogging this morning at Oaklawn Park, and it does not appear that the Louisiana Derby took much out of him. The Coach has chalked up last week’s disappointing performance to the poor start, and feels Caldera deserves one more chance to earn his way into the Kentucky Derby.

This is admittedly an unorthodox approach, but not one that surprises us—Lukas is known for running horses back on short rest. His similar handling of Seize the Grey last year obviously served us well (STG ran in the Jeff Ruby Steaks on Mar. 23 and the Blue Grass on Apr. 6 before taking the G2 Pat Day Mile on Derby Day).

The Blue Grass draws next Tuesday, Apr. 1—and Caldera will have to continue to train perfectly from now until then for us to go ahead and enter. For now, that is the plan

good to hear batt..was thinking with him being about 3 lengths off the pace at the first 3 calls and them going 1:11 through 6f in his last race maybe could be looked at as a nice workout..he's got 1 less race (if you view his last that way) as the typical horse going to a final leg derby prep..obviously they were looking for a big effort in the la derby but a return in 2 weeks from a fitness perspective doesn't seem crazy to me under these circumstances

[batt33]

well this is interesting.....
Caldera Update

We just got off the phone with trainer D. Wayne Lukas, who confirmed that he would like to try Caldera in next Saturday’s $1.25-million G1 Blue Grass S.at Keeneland.

He reports that Caldera looked good jogging this morning at Oaklawn Park, and it does not appear that the Louisiana Derby took much out of him. The Coach has chalked up last week’s disappointing performance to the poor start, and feels Caldera deserves one more chance to earn his way into the Kentucky Derby.

This is admittedly an unorthodox approach, but not one that surprises us—Lukas is known for running horses back on short rest. His similar handling of Seize the Grey last year obviously served us well (STG ran in the Jeff Ruby Steaks on Mar. 23 and the Blue Grass on Apr. 6 before taking the G2 Pat Day Mile on Derby Day).

The Blue Grass draws next Tuesday, Apr. 1—and Caldera will have to continue to train perfectly from now until then for us to go ahead and enter. For now, that is the plan

[batt33]

OK STR race was run on the tapeta so off the turf. THX for your take.

One thing I have noticed( just casual) is that the "candy ride" offspring like the tapeta....

[Easy-Rider 66]

I see what Casse or his owner paid for her, which says she is nice from that angle but I doubt I would have landed on her. She is well bred for the turf but have to think I would have not used her. JBEX is right about the turf but as he said, the current connections would probably have chased me off her especially off that last race even though not on turf.
She ran well so expect that next out as well if she stays on the grass.
Anyone who had her, a tip of the cap is deserved.

OK STR race was run on the tapeta so off the turf. THX for your take.

[str]

Hey STR when you get a chance take a look at GP R2: #6 Wellness. You can access PP's by More than ready. 15/1 ML sent off at 24/1. The Horse placed nailed at the wire by the fav. Do you see potential there or should he have been sent off at that price in your opinion? THX in advance.

I see what Casse or his owner paid for her, which says she is nice from that angle but I doubt I would have landed on her. She is well bred for the turf but have to think I would have not used her. JBEX is right about the turf but as he said, the current connections would probably have chased me off her especially off that last race even though not on turf.
She ran well so expect that next out as well if she stays on the grass.
Anyone who had her, a tip of the cap is deserved.

[Easy-Rider 66]

want to be clear on above race is was a 50K MDN CLM edits not working

[Easy-Rider 66]

if you excuse the break last out the pp line isn't bad ..figure progression first 3,a 5f turf sprint @ gulfstream is a different animal than what she'd done at woodbine ..didn't run badly in the race she was claimed out of,actually very good when you look at the bad trip she had..it's a very classy either surface pedigree geared more for distance ..sire is gun runner's sire and the dam's sire is curlin's sire..realize most won't factor that in to capping but interesting to know..trainer/jock combo a large part of why she went off that high imo

THX for your take JBEX. what jumped out to me was the work she did at MSW at WO. Now running in a 50K MDN claiming. I thew out last race as she regressed on the dirt. she ran above par for this ace in several other attempts. Good point about the sire info. thx again.

[JBEX]

Hey STR when you get a chance take a look at GP R2: #6 Wellness. You can access PP's by More than ready. 15/1 ML sent off at 24/1. The Horse placed nailed at the wire by the fav. Do you see potential there or should he have been sent off at that price in your opinion? THX in advance.

if you excuse the break last out the pp line isn't bad ..figure progression first 3,a 5f turf sprint @ gulfstream is a different animal than what she'd done at woodbine ..didn't run badly in the race she was claimed out of,actually very good when you look at the bad trip she had..it's a very classy either surface pedigree geared more for distance ..sire is gun runner's sire and the dam's sire is curlin's sire..realize most won't factor that in to capping but interesting to know..trainer/jock combo a large part of why she went off that high imo

[str]

Great points STR, one other thing I noticed was the jockey went to the whip on the far turn IDK just an all and all funky race for both,
Yes A horse to watch JBEX!

By the time the jock hit that horse, the horse was toast. He felt it ,but the energy was empty.

It was a waste of time. It had no effect except visually IMO.

[Easy-Rider 66]

Hey STR when you get a chance take a look at GP R2: #6 Wellness. You can access PP's by More than ready. 15/1 ML sent off at 24/1. The Horse placed nailed at the wire by the fav. Do you see potential there or should he have been sent off at that price in your opinion? THX in advance.