Are People actually Dumb enough to believe the NBA is Rigged?

[stevenash]

I've made my points, and I've backd them with facts.

Show me where I'm wrong.

[KVB]

lol creates an account today just to comment on this

I know bob, I just couldn't take the banter anymore. I tried, but just couldn't.
When I saw my post, I felt like a tool...look at the font a spacing, just screams "new to SBR"

[James Marques]

Nice rigged under by 1 point. WHAT the fukk...

Which I hit by a 1/2 point, btw. Good thing I'm in on it.....

[Courtesywipe]

Nice rigged under by 1 point. WHAT the fukk...

Need 39 total points for over in 4th qrt. By 2 of the highest scoring teams in league. Mysteriously the brown jigs are unable to get that single point. Need some white folks on the court to keep things honest.

[KVB]

Burden of proof is on the whacko theorists.... not the status quo. You make the accusation, you bear the burden.

The accusation in the very first post is that the NBA is not "rigged." I am awaiting the proof.

[akphidelt]

After years of browsing I’ve decided to make my first post.I, like most other winning bettors, either read posts for information and opinions to use in novel, unconventional, and “out of the box” ways OR we simply don’t waste time if these type of forums, we are too busy winning. To the few true winners here…we are a rare breed indeed.

Now, I wanted my first post to name all the classic posters here from JJGOLD to leetreaper and everyone in between. There is no way to name all of you but most of you know who you are. I wanted to give the props where props are due, but that won’t happen today.
akphidelt…you have written many things, provided your reasoning and logic called other posters names and ages (which, regardless of age, shows your immaturity [I’m guessing fraternity boy]) when they provided their logic, and most of all criticized all responders for not proving that the NBA is rigged.
akphidelt…there is one thing you have not done. For someone who’s reality so relies on others to prove their points, you have proven nothing.
You started this post; you called people out for lack of proof in their evidence but, akphidelt, the burden of proof is on you. Why would you think all sports aren’t scripted? Legal statements, copyright notices and the words from the executives of the league all leave open the possibility that the whole thing is a soap opera.
I do know you have been wrong in your posts. What makes you think the NBA predetermining the outcome of a game is illegal? That is an incorrect notion.
There are two laws regarding the fixing of events in the USA.
1) You can’t bribe a player to fix a sporting event. That would be illegal.
2) You can’t fix a televised intellectual event (the famous quiz show of 60’s)
If the commissioner of the league wanted his ENTERTAINMENT product to reach a scripted outcome, it would be no different than a television show’s writers doing their jobs…and it would not be illegal…no players are “bribed” and the NBA sure as hell isn’t Jeopardy.
If you are so certain that sporting events can’t be rigged, then prove it.
I’ll make it easy, find an NBA representative (commissioner, legal counsel, player or ref, ANYONE) who claims it is not scripted…that would be a start for you. Remember, the posts above show a referee who claims that it is.
Just because you can’t imagine a situation, possibility, or reality in which all sports that are bet on are scripted does not mean that they aren’t.
The burden of proof akphidelt, is on YOU.
If you are so certain sports aren’t scripted, so certain that other people are “dumb enough”, then PROVE IT!
This should be interesting…

Lol, first off I can't prove something that doesn't exist. I can't prove to you the NBA is not fixing games, I can only prove that the evidence being brought forth is not proof they are. That is why conspiracy theorists are impossible to argue with. They take something like the video from the 2002 WCF's and point out the bad calls by the refs and say the game was rigged. There's literally nothing I can say to prove it wasn't rigged. All I can say is the evidence you have is circumstantial and there is no source connecting your view of the refs calls with an actual attempt to rig the game, for whatever reason.

Like I said earlier, the NBA can change rules, encourage refs to focus on a certain part of the game, etc. They cannot legally tell refs that they want one team to win over the other. That would be a federal crime that would result in serious repercussions. Such serious repercussions that the thought of them even trying it would be absolutely retarded. Even Silver or Stern mentioning to a ref or anyone in the organization that they should favor one team or the other would be a billion dollar liability.

They can do things to make some teams have an edge, like allowing zone, calling defensive 3 seconds, extending the 3 pt line, telling refs to call less charges, etc. That's just part of the game. As long as it applies to all teams, there is no rigging of a game.

Like I have said, there has been absolutely no real evidence presented that the NBA fixes games because if that evidence actually existed the entire NBA would come crumbling down. Some dude is losing his billion dollar team for saying racist comments in private and you think NBA officials are just telling refs to fix a game?? Get outta here. That's delusional. If you think you have evidence that the NBA fixes games, you are a conspiracy theorist and quite frankly an out of touch nut job because you are accusing them of a serious offense that if the evidence were actually available the feds would tear the NBA apart.

[jtoler]

Well Jtoler, I took a page from the "riggers" and presented circumstantial evidence as to why the NBA isn't rigged. I figured surely two can play at that game, right? Why let the riggers have all the fun?

But you said it's all about stretching a series out, which points to my earlier complaint about the riggers being all over the place. If I'm going to controvert their claims, it's like trying to hit a moving target because they're here one minute, and over there the next.

But let's say it's about stretching a series out. First of all, that disqualifies the entire regular season. Secondly, I posted earlier about recent series that failed to reach their potential, but I'll defer to Mr. Marques on this, as he makes some very good points in this regard.

Ive long since thought about that, those arnt good points, its pointing at exclusiveness as an ending point. For purposes of revenue I think we can all agree, 5 games is better than 4, 6 games is better than 5, and so on. Now let him go dig all of the 6 AND 7 game series and then find the percentage of those. It would be more suspicious if every series went to 7 games.

[akphidelt]

I've made my points, and I've backd them with facts.

Show me where I'm wrong.

Lol, you aren't wrong about the events that happened, you are wrong that those are considered evidence that the game is rigged. None of what you provided is actual evidence of games being rigged. Just simply results of games and people complaining about refs.

[jtoler]

Rasheed Wallace and Chris Webber are two that come to mind instantly and there's countless more who've made similar comments. Paul George was just fined 25k yesterday for talking about it after game 3.

And thats the whole point to keep players and coaches silent, whenever they sniff at talking about officiating they are hit in the wallet, doesnt matter who you are. They will always try and keep any kind of commentary away from refs officiating a game partially and or extending a series.

[akphidelt]

Ive long since thought about that, those arnt good points, its pointing at exclusiveness as an ending point. For purposes of revenue I think we can all agree, 5 games is better than 4, 6 games is better than 5, and so on. Now let him go dig all of the 6 AND 7 game series and then find the percentage of those. It would be more suspicious if every series went to 7 games.

There's no winning with conspiracy theorists, lmao!!!

[akphidelt]

And thats the whole point to keep players and coaches silent, whenever they sniff at talking about officiating they are hit in the wallet, doesnt matter who you are.

Hahaha, yea because accusing refs of rigging a game is a serious accusation and the NBA does not take that lightly because of how much trouble they would get in if they were actually rigging games.

[bob6199]

I've made my points, and I've backd them with facts.

Show me where I'm wrong.

what facts? all you did was show that the 4th QTR was foul heavy and had comments from a lot of people "thinking" it's rigged. That's not a fact, you don't have and never will have viable proof that the NBA is rigged, nor will the OP have proof it isn't, it is something ppl either believe or don't. Just because a lot of fouls were called in 1 QTR doesn't mean it's rigged, i have seen games go the complete opposite way. The term fact means you can't argue against it. It's pointless to argue this on either side because either side can't provide concert proof. You could give examples of games that might have been rigged then the OP can give examples of games that "weren't". You made your points, but don't say what you brought up is fact because it's not, it's an assumption.

[James Marques]

The accusation in the very first post is that the NBA is not "rigged." I am awaiting the proof.

I won't even dignify that statement with a rebuttal. It stands on its own idiocy.

[jtoler]

what facts? all you did was show that the 4th QTR was foul heavy and had comments from a lot of people "thinking" it's rigged. That's not a fact, you don't have and never will have viable proof that the NBA is rigged, nor will the OP have proof it isn't, it is something ppl either believe or don't. Just because a lot of fouls were called in 1 QTR doesn't mean it's rigged, i have seen games go the complete opposite way. The term fact means you can't argue against it. It's pointless to argue this on either side because either side can't provide concert proof. You could give examples of games that might have been rigged then the OP can give examples of games that "weren't". You made your points, but don't say what you brought up is fact because it's not, it's an assumption.

Like nobody believed Canseco at the time and called him crazy when he said certain people were juicing, I believed him at the time. Now everyone believes him, go figure, nevermind a former ref has commented on such, but nope dont take his word for it, he's just mad he isnt reffing anymore right?

[Eddy Munny]

Ive long since thought about that, those arnt good points, its pointing at exclusiveness as an ending point. For purposes of revenue I think we can all agree, 5 games is better than 4, 6 games is better than 5, and so on. Now let him go dig all of the 6 AND 7 game series and then find the percentage of those. It would be more suspicious if every series went to 7 games.

Fukk's sake dude... are you serious? So now you're basically stating that any series that isn't a sweep opens itself up to questions of a possible fix. Nevermind a tinfoil hat. You're wearing a tinfoil suit of armor.

[James Marques]

I've made my points, and I've backd them with facts.

Show me where I'm wrong.

I also have a pretty good job, and an engineering degree from Georgia Tech. Show me one semblance of rational thought in your argument... just one. Let me ask you this: does that game fall outside of two standard deviations of free throw disparity in NBA history? You do remember hypothesis testing and the 95% confidence interval, right? Or did they only teach statistical analysis in quarters at your "tech school?"

[KVB]

Lol, first off I can't prove something that doesn't exist. I can't prove to you the NBA is not fixing games, I can only prove that the evidence being brought forth is not proof they are. That is why conspiracy theorists are impossible to argue with. They take something like the video from the 2002 WCF's and point out the bad calls by the refs and say the game was rigged. There's literally nothing I can say to prove it wasn't rigged. All I can say is the evidence you have is circumstantial and there is no source connecting your view of the refs calls with an actual attempt to rig the game, for whatever reason.

Like I said earlier, the NBA can change rules, encourage refs to focus on a certain part of the game, etc. They cannot legally tell refs that they want one team to win over the other. That would be a federal crime that would result in serious repercussions. Such serious repercussions that the thought of them even trying it would be absolutely retarded. Even Silver or Stern mentioning to a ref or anyone in the organization that they should favor one team or the other would be a billion dollar liability.

They can do things to make some teams have an edge, like allowing zone, calling defensive 3 seconds, extending the 3 pt line, telling refs to call less charges, etc. That's just part of the game. As long as it applies to all teams, there is no rigging of a game.

Like I have said, there has been absolutely no real evidence presented that the NBA fixes games because if that evidence actually existed the entire NBA would come crumbling down. Some dude is losing his billion dollar team for saying racist comments in private and you think NBA officials are just telling refs to fix a game?? Get outta here. That's delusional. If you think you have evidence that the NBA fixes games, you are a conspiracy theorist and quite frankly an out of touch nut job because you are accusing them of a serious offense that if the evidence were actually available the feds would tear the NBA apart.

You do not know where I stand on this issue. I have educated you on the law, since you did not know it. You still don't understand the correct law. You have stated it wrong again.
I did ask you to find a NBA representative that says games are NOT scripted...only fans say that.
Unless you have some kind of inside information...

I ask you to prove it is NOT scripted, you say "I can't prove something that does not exist"...so now you think it's rigged. Nice change of heart.

[sballen]

You did not provide a single piece of evidence the league is fixed. Cuban running his mouth or how many fouls Wade got is not proof it is fixed, lol. Just more logical fallacies.

Exactly. He can provide 30 examples? He provided 3? The same 3 that every rigger theorist states. Lmao

[akphidelt]

You do not know where I stand on this issue. I have educated you on the law, since you did not know it. You still don't understand the correct law. You have stated it wrong again.
I did ask you to find a NBA representative that says games are NOT scripted...only fans say that.
Unless you have some kind of inside information...

I ask you to prove it is NOT scripted, you say "I can't prove something that does not exist"...so now you think it's rigged. Nice change of heart.

You didn't educate me on any laws, lol. Match fixing is a federal offense. If anyone in the NBA even hinted at having one team favored over the other it would be a serious crime. They cannot script games. That's illegal. You are really dumb.

[bob6199]

Like nobody believed Canseco at the time and called him crazy when he said certain people were juicing, I believed him at the time. Now everyone believes him, go figure, nevermind a former ref has commented on such, but nope dont take his word for it, he's just mad he isnt reffing anymore right?

That isn't proof, he was a ref who did his own thing, should we believe all manages bet on baseball because Pete Rose did it? O and with Canseco they actually had proof others were juicing, no proof what so ever that the NBA is or isn't...

[SharpAngles]

Hahaha, yea because accusing refs of rigging a game is a serious accusation and the NBA does not take that lightly because of how much trouble they would get in if they were actually rigging games.

Please show us the law you keep referencing that prevents the NBA or any other league from manipulating games. You might have a hard time because the federal appeals court couldn't in the spygate lawsuit. That judge said the ticket simply gave you a seat to a game, not the right to a fair game and the only recourse for fans who don't like it is to not attend.

[jtoler]

That isn't proof, he was a ref who did his own thing, should we believe all manages bet on baseball because Pete Rose did it? O and with Canseco they actually had proof others were juicing, no proof what so ever that the NBA is or isn't...

Did Rose SAY other managers bet on baseball? Apples and oranges.

[Eddy Munny]

I've made my points, and I've backd them with facts.

Show me where I'm wrong.

You posted a chart depicting calls/non-calls late in game six of the 2002 WCF. If you read the column labeled "Right Call?," it's 14-1 in favor of the right call being made. In other words, according to the chart that you posted, if I disregard the "maybes" and the "intentional" foul calls, there were 14 judgment calls by the officials deemed accurate and only 1 cited as wrong.

What exactly do you want me to say?

[KVB]

You didn't educate me on any laws, lol. Match fixing is a federal offense. If anyone in the NBA even hinted at having one team favored over the other it would be a serious crime. They cannot script games. That's illegal. You are really dumb.

You still don't understand the law. What you are writing here is NOT true. You're right, I didn't educate you on any laws, you failed to learn.

[SharpAngles]

You didn't educate me on any laws, lol. Match fixing is a federal offense. If anyone in the NBA even hinted at having one team favored over the other it would be a serious crime. They cannot script games. That's illegal. You are really dumb.

Again, please give us the law that prevents a game being manipulated by the league.

[James Marques]

You do not know where I stand on this issue. I have educated you on the law, since you did not know it. You still don't understand the correct law. You have stated it wrong again.
I did ask you to find a NBA representative that says games are NOT scripted...only fans say that.
Unless you have some kind of inside information...

I ask you to prove it is NOT scripted, you say "I can't prove something that does not exist"...so now you think it's rigged. Nice change of heart.

So your argument is to shift the burden of proof from those who believe sports are rigged (an underwhelming minority of the population) to those who don't believe they are rigged? Yet another Occam's Razor fail.

[KVB]

Again, please give us the law that prevents a game being manipulated by the league.

[James Marques]

Everyone believes the Sun is the center of our solar system. It's been measured, illustrated, and proven scientifically. Virtually everyone agrees. If I wake up tomorrow and say the Earth is the center of the solar system, the burden of proof is on ME... not everyone else.

[KVB]

So your argument is to shift the burden of proof from those who believe sports are rigged (an underwhelming minority of the population) to those who don't believe they are rigged? Yet another Occam's Razor fail.

No, the burden of proof is on YOU!
So if the majority of people think one way, that makes it true? We have a winner folks!!!!!

Sorry James, no burden on you, but I may have stand by the majority of people line.

[SharpAngles]

Pretty sure if AK is saying there is a United States law that prevents the NBA from manipulating games, the burden of proof is on him. Should not be a hard task for someone so educated to look that up and provide a link since all of us who know the real story are "retarded" "dumbasses" and "uneducated". Oh yeah we all lose at gambling too and have miserable low paying jobs so please help us.

[greenhippo]

Nasher, I expect a lot better of a response to this thread from you then the one I saw. Those facts you listed don't back up the claim you're making and you know it doesn't.

Spurs won by 28 and I think that means Pops is a Nazi sympathizer. That has to be correct because the Spurs did indeed win by 28, show me how my facts are wrong. Simply ridiculous.

[jtoler]

Pretty sure if AK is saying there is a United States law that prevents the NBA from manipulating games, the burden of proof is on him. Should not be a hard task for someone so educated to look that up and provide a link since all of us who know the real story are "retarded" "dumbasses" and "uneducated". Oh yeah we all lose at gambling too and have miserable low paying jobs so please help us.

I havent read through the whole thread, did he actually say that? A law huh.

[KVB]

Everyone believes the Sun is the center of our solar system. It's been measured, illustrated, and proven scientifically. Virtually everyone agrees. If I wake up tomorrow and say the Earth is the center of the solar system, the burden of proof is on ME... not everyone else.

Not relevant, one side of the "sun argument" has a body of knowledge, that doesn't apply here. Here evidence has only been presented by the "rigged" side (scanty evidence at best, not repeatable) . The "not fixed" crew has provided no evidence whatsoever.

[KVB]

I havent read through the whole thread, did he actually say that? A law huh.

He did, then he insulted a ton of posters.

[James Marques]

Not relevant, one side of the "sun argument" has a body of knowledge, that doesn't apply here. Here evidence has only been presented by the "rigged" side (scanty evidence at best, not repeatable) . The "not fixed" crew has provided no evidence whatsoever.

Let's operate under the assumption that prolonging each series is in the NBA's best interest, for ratings sake. So let's assume that is the NBA's endgame.

Since 2003 (when the NBA moved to all "Best of 7" series), there have been 36 game 7's... including the 5 this year in the first round. Over that same span, 155 playoff series have been played. That means 23% of the NBA Playoff Series' since 2003 have gone 7 games. Theoretically, that number should be around 30%. However, one could argue (rightly so, IMO) that the first round is not nearly as competitive as the later rounds because of the obvious talent gap in the 1-8 and 2-7 seed games. So let's throw those out. So we're left with 18 game 7's in 81 series, including this year's second round (but not conference finals obviously, as they're not finished yet). The result is even lower at 22%, again significantly down from that 30% expected value. But we'll assume there's still a great deal of parity in the second round, so we'll throw that one out too. Now we're down to 6 7-gamers in 33 series total. That's a whopping 18%. But we'll keep throwing out data, let's just talk the Finals. Absolute closest thing we can get to an even matchup, right? A grand total of 3 Game Seven's out of 11 Finals played. That hits just over 27%, pretty close to what it should be. End result: our null hypothesis is bullshit.

Those damn numbers again.....