Horse Racing questions and answers

[Pigpen]

I saw that. The reaction from what I’ve seen is pretty odd IMO. Apparently this is the 3rd time it has happened in NY in the last decade or less.
I find that mind blowing!
I don’t know who’s fault this is but I was told that the head Steward has been there for all three incidents.
That is not at all cool.

I do not recall that ever happening while I was training. So whose fault is it?

Well the job to get this correct must lie first and foremost with the Starter. He runs the gate crew . Now, along the way there are many other people that have a duty to notice this IMO. Among the top people after the starter would be the Stewards. Don’t they glance down with about 4-5 minutes to post and see where it has been placed ? Next the patrol judges who are stationed around the track at various spots. They are there to patrol and view the running of the race. Honestly, the jocks could notice it but they are in sync at that point with their horse and it is not their job.

So far it IS the starters job and the Stewards job. Next for me are the trainers. I mean, what the heck are they looking for pre race other than their horse and the setting of the gate ? Game time starts for the trainer when the horse is walking over pre race. That is how I was taught and that is where all my attention was focused on.
Even the grooms. They have no responsibility but aren’t they paying attention to their horse?

The list thins out from there but that should be more than enough eyes and attention to notice the mistake prior to the race starting.

But had anyone fans included, noticed this all they had to do was tell a guard, employee or whoever. Even tell the mutual people taking bets. They all have radios that can relay info to the Stewards within 15 seconds if necessary.

Honestly I am blown away by this happening 3 times in recent years in NY. It is beyond belief in my book.

To make things worse, NY has done or said very little to explain what happened. They had 2 stewards on with Andy Serling to explain to the viewers that it is inexcusable and basically took blame. But… where was the head Steward who has been the head Steward for all 3 of these blunders? Nowhere to be seen or heard of. THAT is not at all good.

Its one thing to make the mistake and another to make the race official and pay out the prices leaving no recourse for refunding the tickets .

it is mistake after mistake and a head Steward nowhere to be found. It’s a real bad look.

Safe to say that NY made matters worse by their actions immediately following the incident.

I think NY racing has taken a bad mistake and turned it into something bigger than it is.
IMO they have really screwed up. The most important entity that a racetrack has is its fan base. You lose that trust and you have a real problem far larger than a gate placement. That’s my take.

NYRA just sticks it to their customers and says oops, and we move on. This is one of many reasons the industry is losing customers and gaining very few.

[str]

Did you guys see the race over the weekend at Saratoga where they ran a race at a mile and a sixteenth that was carded for a mile and one eighth? They put the gate in the wrong starting position. I had no skin in the race but if I would have had the 10 on the nose I would be pissed.

I saw that. The reaction from what I’ve seen is pretty odd IMO. Apparently this is the 3rd time it has happened in NY in the last decade or less.
I find that mind blowing!
I don’t know who’s fault this is but I was told that the head Steward has been there for all three incidents.
That is not at all cool.

I do not recall that ever happening while I was training. So whose fault is it?

Well the job to get this correct must lie first and foremost with the Starter. He runs the gate crew . Now, along the way there are many other people that have a duty to notice this IMO. Among the top people after the starter would be the Stewards. Don’t they glance down with about 4-5 minutes to post and see where it has been placed ? Next the patrol judges who are stationed around the track at various spots. They are there to patrol and view the running of the race. Honestly, the jocks could notice it but they are in sync at that point with their horse and it is not their job.

So far it IS the starters job and the Stewards job. Next for me are the trainers. I mean, what the heck are they looking for pre race other than their horse and the setting of the gate ? Game time starts for the trainer when the horse is walking over pre race. That is how I was taught and that is where all my attention was focused on.
Even the grooms. They have no responsibility but aren’t they paying attention to their horse?

The list thins out from there but that should be more than enough eyes and attention to notice the mistake prior to the race starting.

But had anyone fans included, noticed this all they had to do was tell a guard, employee or whoever. Even tell the mutual people taking bets. They all have radios that can relay info to the Stewards within 15 seconds if necessary.

Honestly I am blown away by this happening 3 times in recent years in NY. It is beyond belief in my book.

To make things worse, NY has done or said very little to explain what happened. They had 2 stewards on with Andy Serling to explain to the viewers that it is inexcusable and basically took blame. But… where was the head Steward who has been the head Steward for all 3 of these blunders? Nowhere to be seen or heard of. THAT is not at all good.

Its one thing to make the mistake and another to make the race official and pay out the prices leaving no recourse for refunding the tickets .

it is mistake after mistake and a head Steward nowhere to be found. It’s a real bad look.

Safe to say that NY made matters worse by their actions immediately following the incident.

I think NY racing has taken a bad mistake and turned it into something bigger than it is.
IMO they have really screwed up. The most important entity that a racetrack has is its fan base. You lose that trust and you have a real problem far larger than a gate placement. That’s my take.

[JBEX]

just one AM today (11134)

[JBEX]

Did you guys see the race over the weekend at Saratoga where they ran a race at a mile and a sixteenth that was carded for a mile and one eighth? They put the gate in the wrong starting position. I had no skin in the race but if I would have had the 10 on the nose I would be pissed.

I missed it pigpen .. can certainly understand a bettor being annoyed at that..kind of surprised a jockey wouldn't realize that or maybe they did and figured too late to change things now

[JBEX]

It was a shame EZ but the vast majority of trainers there were as honest as the day is long. I was young enough to be able to have a choice. Many did not .

I want to emphasize that I don’t want anyone to feel bad for me. As tough as that was to deal with, I would not have traded one minute of any of it. I was so incredibly fortunate to be able to learn and participate in, a game that I loved. I learned more than I could possibly have imagined during my time there. I met a million people including some of my heroes. I met Friggin Mickey Mantle!!! My hero growing up. I mean… WHAT???
So many of the things I learned I took with me into the building business. And the added time I was able to spend with my kids has been a gift. I even got to coach my youngest son for his high school years and a county travel team through high school.
That extra family time still exists and is now into grandchildren ranging from 9-22. My life has been fabulous.
My incredible wife of 45 years not including high school and before we got married is the greatest. And the friends I made along the way at the track still exist today with both men and women. Some of those friends I still stay in touch with more so than others but it’s all special. A few of them, a true gift to have as friends.
And of course, those that read this thread , it is because of the track. So everything is as good as it gets for me.
No regrets, and so lucky to have won the races I did and been part of the game that I found when I really needed something to focus on. I mean seriously, the youngest trainer to ever win a trainers title in Md. in at least the last 60 years ? Who knows before then.
And only 6 1/2 years removed from my first day as the greenest hot walker to ever be on the backside. That’s stuff you just can’t make up.

So all good here EZ. No doubt about it.

Thanks my friend. Now let’s pick a winner.

although the reason you decided to give it up is unfortunate it certainly seems to have worked out well for you ..to be able to spend many years doing something you love but ultimately wind up doing something that is more practical and family friendly is the best of both worlds.. to have gained skills carried forward ,made many lifelong friends , had the opportunity to learn from someone who is a master of his craft and have success with it so early on in your life I'd be very happy with all those things

[Pigpen]

Did you guys see the race over the weekend at Saratoga where they ran a race at a mile and a sixteenth that was carded for a mile and one eighth? They put the gate in the wrong starting position. I had no skin in the race but if I would have had the 10 on the nose I would be pissed.

[batt33]

It was a shame EZ but the vast majority of trainers there were as honest as the day is long. I was young enough to be able to have a choice. Many did not .

I want to emphasize that I don’t want anyone to feel bad for me. As tough as that was to deal with, I would not have traded one minute of any of it. I was so incredibly fortunate to be able to learn and participate in, a game that I loved. I learned more than I could possibly have imagined during my time there. I met a million people including some of my heroes. I met Friggin Mickey Mantle!!! My hero growing up. I mean… WHAT???
So many of the things I learned I took with me into the building business. And the added time I was able to spend with my kids has been a gift. I even got to coach my youngest son for his high school years and a county travel team through high school.
That extra family time still exists and is now into grandchildren ranging from 9-22. My life has been fabulous.
My incredible wife of 45 years not including high school and before we got married is the greatest. And the friends I made along the way at the track still exist today with both men and women. Some of those friends I still stay in touch with more so than others but it’s all special. A few of them, a true gift to have as friends.
And of course, those that read this thread , it is because of the track. So everything is as good as it gets for me.
No regrets, and so lucky to have won the races I did and been part of the game that I found when I really needed something to focus on. I mean seriously, the youngest trainer to ever win a trainers title in Md. in at least the last 60 years ? Who knows before then.
And only 6 1/2 years removed from my first day as the greenest hot walker to ever be on the backside. That’s stuff you just can’t make up.

So all good here EZ. No doubt about it

Thanks my friend. Now let’s pick a winner.

Thats pretty cool STR! you made me chuckle about being the "greenest hotwalker" brings back good times for me as I was that person..... but so many people in the barn watching out for me....." shake the shank shake the shank!!!"

[Easy-Rider 66]

^ Good deal STR. I am glad you can see the positives of your time spent as a trainer and beyond. THX for your insights here in this thread as well. The fact that you give free advice to people you never have met speaks volumes. Stay safe

[str]

sorry to read that STR. It's a shame that an honest trainer like you was at a competitive disadvantage. I guess when there is $$$ involved shady things can and do go on. THX

It was a shame EZ but the vast majority of trainers there were as honest as the day is long. I was young enough to be able to have a choice. Many did not .

I want to emphasize that I don’t want anyone to feel bad for me. As tough as that was to deal with, I would not have traded one minute of any of it. I was so incredibly fortunate to be able to learn and participate in, a game that I loved. I learned more than I could possibly have imagined during my time there. I met a million people including some of my heroes. I met Friggin Mickey Mantle!!! My hero growing up. I mean… WHAT???
So many of the things I learned I took with me into the building business. And the added time I was able to spend with my kids has been a gift. I even got to coach my youngest son for his high school years and a county travel team through high school.
That extra family time still exists and is now into grandchildren ranging from 9-22. My life has been fabulous.
My incredible wife of 45 years not including high school and before we got married is the greatest. And the friends I made along the way at the track still exist today with both men and women. Some of those friends I still stay in touch with more so than others but it’s all special. A few of them, a true gift to have as friends.
And of course, those that read this thread , it is because of the track. So everything is as good as it gets for me.
No regrets, and so lucky to have won the races I did and been part of the game that I found when I really needed something to focus on. I mean seriously, the youngest trainer to ever win a trainers title in Md. in at least the last 60 years ? Who knows before then.
And only 6 1/2 years removed from my first day as the greenest hot walker to ever be on the backside. That’s stuff you just can’t make up.

So all good here EZ. No doubt about it.

Thanks my friend. Now let’s pick a winner.

[JBEX]

posted tuesday's result .. nothing weds

[JBEX]

put up tuesday's entry and today's results

[JBEX]

previous weeks

10959/10994/10999/11026/11063/11108


week 7 .. 8/11-8/17

opening day sar to last day dmr (mid sept)
ARMY MULE progeny at ...

saratoga/del mar/monmouth/ellis/colonial

monday and tuesday will look at all tracks ..weds to sunday the 5 above

everything for this week will be in this post
will be a notification when I post



8/11 monday ****

drought (entries) is over

ellis 6 @ 3:12
#2 wonder of you (10-1)
out @ 11-1

finger lakes 6 @ 3:25
#5 trojan mule (8-1)
WON $15.20


8/12 tuesday ****

fairmount 7 @ 5pm
#8 alto rd (6-1)
out @ 2-1

8/13 wednesday ****

nothing

8/14 thursday ****

colonial 1 @ 12:30
#4 colonel tully (6-1)
3rd @ 5-1 .. < 1 length off winner


8/15 friday ****

prarie meadows 10 @ 10:52 .. 2yo stakes
#2 double l's army (6-1)
scratched


8/16 saturday ****


saratoga 1 @ 12:35
#2 airborne elite (9-2)
out @ 5-1

ellis 3 @ 1:48
#4 brooklyn drew (7-2)
out @ 9-5

monmouth 8 @ 4:15
#5 ceepeegee (10-1)
out @ 10-1

8/17 sunday ****

nothing

[Easy-Rider 66]

I’m ok with that EZ. It does suck that there Will definitely be some collateral damage amongst trainer’s who get stuck with a positive that can ruin them. That really sucks. And I would be scared to death to participate under that. And I think HISA has already started addressing that problem. It will get fine tuned.

But anyone with a license and works there understands why things have to be set a certain way. It will get better in time but unfortunately the game allowed this criminal behavior to exist for decades prior to HISA .
As I have stated, by age 36, I was mentally done with what I witnessed and had to participate against every day. That jumps off the page of my yearly record and now people know why.
I certainly didn’t forget how to do it for my last 10 years. What I lost was my competitive edge. It wore me down. And, made me sad, angry and all those things that come with it.

sorry to read that STR. It's a shame that an honest trainer like you was at a competitive disadvantage. I guess when there is $$$ involved shady things can and do go on. THX

[str]

United States District Court Judge Sept. 21 granted a request by six states to file a brief supporting a lawsuit led by Louisiana, Oklahoma, and West Virginia that argues the structure of the Horseracing Integrity and Safety Authority is unconstitutional.

Federal legislation approved last year calls for HISA to oversee medication rules and drug testing in horse racing beginning July 1, 2022. Two lawsuits have been filed in federal courts questioning the constitutionality of the Authority, which would operate under the review of the Federal Trade Commission.

I’m ok with that EZ. It does suck that there Will definitely be some collateral damage amongst trainer’s who get stuck with a positive that can ruin them. That really sucks. And I would be scared to death to participate under that. And I think HISA has already started addressing that problem. It will get fine tuned.

But anyone with a license and works there understands why things have to be set a certain way. It will get better in time but unfortunately the game allowed this criminal behavior to exist for decades prior to HISA .
As I have stated, by age 36, I was mentally done with what I witnessed and had to participate against every day. That jumps off the page of my yearly record and now people know why.
I certainly didn’t forget how to do it for my last 10 years. What I lost was my competitive edge. It wore me down. And, made me sad, angry and all those things that come with it.

[Easy-Rider 66]

United States District Court Judge Sept. 21 granted a request by six states to file a brief supporting a lawsuit led by Louisiana, Oklahoma, and West Virginia that argues the structure of the Horseracing Integrity and Safety Authority is unconstitutional.

Federal legislation approved last year calls for HISA to oversee medication rules and drug testing in horse racing beginning July 1, 2022. Two lawsuits have been filed in federal courts questioning the constitutionality of the Authority, which would operate under the review of the Federal Trade Commission.

[str]

Texas also rejected HISA

Brilliant.
Wanna help clean up racing everyone?

Never bet on a race in those states until they change that.
Fans run the game. They just don’t realize it.

[Snowball]

I don’t think you are being overly optimistic. Anyone that likes the game is going to naturally feel that way.
I sure do. So good for you.

Because of no head commission in place, the game was dying. Along comes HISA and solid ground is established.

It’s a fact that the people that participated in the game, former riders, trainers, vets etc. gave their time to help congress conceive rules that would eradicate the garbage in the game. That’s harsh , and there will always be a situation or circumstance, that will be unfortunate for the very few, but highly effective For the vast majority of those that did everything in their power to destroy the game for self gain.

I think the future is bright and the money is coming in from everywhere.

Every race track in the United States is so much better off than they were with the exception of those in West Virginia, and Louisiana. Those two places cannot be anything but corrupt, because that is where every corrupt participant has traveled to so they can continue to use drugs, cheat, etc.
All that shows me is the list of names of people that know damn well they cannot compete unless they take an edge. I find that pathetic. You cannot condemn every single person that competes in those two states but….. Who would want to be an honest trainer and have to go to work every day, knowing that more than a couple of the surrounding trainers you compete against are not. I know I didn’t.

Texas also rejected HISA

[JBEX]

same saturday..5th straight day

again nothing at those tracks for AM

[JBEX]

no army mule's at our tracks today

same saturday..5th straight day

[JBEX]

no army mule's at our tracks today

[str]

I saw the video of that on Bloodhorse YT channel. It sucks losing Aqueduct but it looks like the new Belmont and Pimilco are going to be catalysts.. I see more big money getting in. They don't know much but they can buy experience and insight because the disposition is to save the industry which took a beating from legal sports betting. With the right management in media and government I think horse racing can at least hold its own but more likely, even grow participation rates. If the purses are going up someday soon it would make a lot of sense to pay bigger money not just on inflation but higher stakes payouts. Hope I'm not being too optimistic but I doubt it because Saratoga is getting a lot of looks and Belmont opening will be major.

I don’t think you are being overly optimistic. Anyone that likes the game is going to naturally feel that way.
I sure do. So good for you.

Because of no head commission in place, the game was dying. Along comes HISA and solid ground is established.

It’s a fact that the people that participated in the game, former riders, trainers, vets etc. gave their time to help congress conceive rules that would eradicate the garbage in the game. That’s harsh , and there will always be a situation or circumstance, that will be unfortunate for the very few, but highly effective For the vast majority of those that did everything in their power to destroy the game for self gain.

I think the future is bright and the money is coming in from everywhere.

Every race track in the United States is so much better off than they were with the exception of those in West Virginia, and Louisiana. Those two places cannot be anything but corrupt, because that is where every corrupt participant has traveled to so they can continue to use drugs, cheat, etc.
All that shows me is the list of names of people that know damn well they cannot compete unless they take an edge. I find that pathetic. You cannot condemn every single person that competes in those two states but….. Who would want to be an honest trainer and have to go to work every day, knowing that more than a couple of the surrounding trainers you compete against are not. I know I didn’t.

[JBEX]

also nice to see army mule as a dam sire ..first time I have

[JBEX]

big prices! of note
hip 139 a Violence colt of an Army Mule mare went for 400,000
Seize the Grey's half sister hip 209 went for 1,0025!
Hip 222 a Half sister to my horse"black tie affair" went for 285,000
Hip 165 a Into mischief filly was RNA'd at 3.9 million!! WTH???? reserve was at 4 million..... I think I would have let the filly go... so much can happen to them.....

some nice info relative to the horse's we follow ..thanks

amazing with the into mischief filly and maybe not going to $4M was the plan going in..the filly is a half to journalism and ironically IM is the sire of sovereignty his arch rival

[str]

big prices! of note
hip 139 a Violence colt of an Army Mule mare went for 400,000
Seize the Grey's half sister hip 209 went for 1,0025!
Hip 222 a Half sister to my horse"black tie affair" went for 285,000
Hip 165 a Into mischief filly was RNA'd at 3.9 million!! WTH???? reserve was at 4 million..... I think I would have let the filly go... so much can happen to them.....

Wow. Think about that. A FILLY !

[str]

I went back to look an Into Mischief's first year at stud and the fee was $12,500 and we know what he demands now. Now, Army Mule is getting much better mares and if his babies keep doing this I will tip my hat to either JBEX or STR that had him pegged way before his youngsters started to race.

JBEX mentioned him to me in the beginning. He deserves the credit for finding him Since then, we have both had a great time watching him grow.
The things his offspring bring to the table is simply different than what most horses do across the board.
Consistency is always wished for but with these AM’s it’s part of the package. That is rare.
What a horse !

[batt33]

The Saratoga yearling sales are going on this week. You will need to sit down to see the prices that these yearlings are selling for.
2.7 million is the high so far.
incredible !!

big prices! of note
hip 139 a Violence colt of an Army Mule mare went for 400,000
Seize the Grey's half sister hip 209 went for 1,0025!
Hip 222 a Half sister to my horse"black tie affair" went for 285,000
Hip 165 a Into mischief filly was RNA'd at 3.9 million!! WTH???? reserve was at 4 million..... I think I would have let the filly go... so much can happen to them.....

[JBEX]

nothing on thursday

[JBEX]

I went back to look a Into Mischief's first year at stud and the fee was $12,500 and we know what he demands now. Now, Army Mule is getting much better mares and if his babies keep doing this I will tip my hat to either JBEX or STR that had him pegged way before his youngsters started to race.

noticed AM cost a boatload relative to his pedigree .. crushed them his first race and kept an eye out for his next start ..me and str discussed before and after all 3 races in his career and off 3 brilliant performances (won by 22+ lengths cumulatively, none by less than 6L) thought he might make a good sire and he certainly has exceeded expectations

it will be interesting pigpen..next year will be the 1st increased fee crop and the following year his fee doubled from that .. be cool to see how his progeny does with better quality mares..if he peaked as a $40-50k sire that'd be a nice accomplishment but you never know ..into mischief is a good example that it is possible to climb all the way to the top starting as an inexpensive sire

[Pigpen]

Incredible!!

I went back to look a Into Mischief's first year at stud and the fee was $12,500 and we know what he demands now. Now, Army Mule is getting much better mares and if his babies keep doing this I will tip my hat to either JBEX or STR that had him pegged way before his youngsters started to race.

[str]

Into Mischief colt goes for $4.1 million. He is quite the sire.

Incredible!!

[Snowball]

The Saratoga yearling sales are going on this week. You will need to sit down to see the prices that these yearlings are selling for.
2.7 million is the high so far.
incredible !!

I saw the video of that on Bloodhorse YT channel. It sucks losing Aqueduct but it looks like the new Belmont and Pimilco are going to be catalysts.. I see more big money getting in. They don't know much but they can buy experience and insight because the disposition is to save the industry which took a beating from legal sports betting. With the right management in media and government I think horse racing can at least hold its own but more likely, even grow participation rates. If the purses are going up someday soon it would make a lot of sense to pay bigger money not just on inflation but higher stakes payouts. Hope I'm not being too optimistic but I doubt it because Saratoga is getting a lot of looks and Belmont opening will be major.

[JBEX]

Into Mischief colt goes for $4.1 million. He is quite the sire.

started off very cheap and climbed up the ranks to be one of the best and most expensive stallions out there

[Pigpen]

Into Mischief colt goes for $4.1 million. He is quite the sire.

[JBEX]

The Saratoga yearling sales are going on this week. You will need to sit down to see the prices that these yearlings are selling for.
2.7 million is the high so far.
incredible !!

have to check that out str

no army mule runners at any of our tracks tomorrow

[str]

The Saratoga yearling sales are going on this week. You will need to sit down to see the prices that these yearlings are selling for.
2.7 million is the high so far.
incredible !!