Horse Racing questions and answers

[str]

If you blindly bet on each AM today, you probably make money.

[JBEX]

Thanks! will try and take a look!

no problem .. might be a first 4 on one card

[batt33]

3 other army mule's going at oaklawn tomorrow in addition to soldier n diplomat in R8

R1 .. 7 saving heart (5-2)
R3 .. 7 private debbie (20-1)
R7 .. 9 army marauder (4-1)

Thanks! will try and take a look!

[JBEX]

3 other army mule's going at oaklawn tomorrow in addition to soldier n diplomat in R8

R1 .. 7 saving heart (5-2)
R3 .. 7 private debbie (20-1)
R7 .. 9 army marauder (4-1)

[batt33]

As for my meeting on Sunday, my thoughts are just not being well received right now. The board is overwhelmed with problems with horses, horsemen, and about everything. I feel sorry for them but some of this IMO is from their own doings. Not blame, just what I see from the other side of the fence. I mean, everyone does care. No doubt. But there are a lot of real problems in Md. right now and as long as horsemen and management are going to not work as one, AND horsemen and other horsemen bickering and fighting, that will continue. Unfortunate as it is, that leaves those " Heroes" that I am trying to fight for, on a back burner with no help coming. But, anyone that knows me knows I don't take no for an answer when it comes to what I know is right. Hell, it's why I left the track.
So... The work will continue until such I time that people can stop their petty arguing enough to realize that a 10-15 year group of people that worked their asses off are in need of the same help that they provided between all of us all those years ago. Those in charge have NOT forgotten that. They are just IMO preoccupied with what they perceive to be what's right. But as we all know, nobody is ALWAYS right. They have work to do, so do it. I have more work to do now as well, and I will do what I can to right the wrong.

Must say and it won't be popular that their are trainers and breeders who get their egos stroked that seem to crave it. From someone that knew them 30-40 years ago, well before they HAD an ego, it is almost comical to see. That is almost comical, as the reality is, it is those egos that are blinding them from what they once stood for. You know. Before money and before fame or recognition. Again, awesome people and I love them. But if they could see through my lens what I see, they would be surprised at themselves.

It has to be so so frustrating STR.. Keep fighting for the "heros " on the backstretch... They know they have someone who cares speaking up for them. Batt,

[JBEX]

Sorry I have been MIA lately. A lot of things going on. This sounds like a nice spot ! The Pat Day mile popped into my mind right away as well when you mentioned it before but that race seems to come up so darn tough every year. They run real fast fractions and while it is supposed to be not crazy tough, it seems like it usually is. Without looking at the race, 8-1 is attractive IMO . Real good spot for possible value.

figured you were probably busy and no problem .. partly said the pat day mile because of his huge win at churchill last year going that distance .. I agree this would be a much tougher assignment vs 3 year olds , probable stronger pace and big field..I think if he does run in that and wins he's starting to establish real sire credentials and sure the owner (same as army mule when he raced) would really love to see him be a stallion .. hopefully puts forth a good effort tomorrow

[str]

OK Batt. I have a meeting tomorrow morning with the boss, that is, you don't get any higher, at Laurel to discuss two things. A way to get horsemen and ,management to work together instead of against each other for the betterment of both parties and the heroes fund I am trying to get support for which helps those lifelong backstretch workers who can no longer work, with financial education, understanding, and monetary support when needed. I think I have a winner with what I have come up with that will not only help the Md. people but with the track being a copycat system, help any jurisdiction that wants to implement it. And why not? All it takes is effort. The same effort that all those old employees put in to the game everyday, including, Christmas, Thanksgiving, Easter, you name it. I know Batt gets it because he lived it. But for those of you that did not, the comradery and unspoken bond between fellow workers. Hopefully, it resonates with management.
I'll keep you posted.

As for my meeting on Sunday, my thoughts are just not being well received right now. The board is overwhelmed with problems with horses, horsemen, and about everything. I feel sorry for them but some of this IMO is from their own doings. Not blame, just what I see from the other side of the fence. I mean, everyone does care. No doubt. But there are a lot of real problems in Md. right now and as long as horsemen and management are going to not work as one, AND horsemen and other horsemen bickering and fighting, that will continue. Unfortunate as it is, that leaves those " Heroes" that I am trying to fight for, on a back burner with no help coming. But, anyone that knows me knows I don't take no for an answer when it comes to what I know is right. Hell, it's why I left the track.
So... The work will continue until such I time that people can stop their petty arguing enough to realize that a 10-15 year group of people that worked their asses off are in need of the same help that they provided between all of us all those years ago. Those in charge have NOT forgotten that. They are just IMO preoccupied with what they perceive to be what's right. But as we all know, nobody is ALWAYS right. They have work to do, so do it. I have more work to do now as well, and I will do what I can to right the wrong.

Must say and it won't be popular that their are trainers and breeders who get their egos stroked that seem to crave it. From someone that knew them 30-40 years ago, well before they HAD an ego, it is almost comical to see. That is almost comical, as the reality is, it is those egos that are blinding them from what they once stood for. You know. Before money and before fame or recognition. Again, awesome people and I love them. But if they could see through my lens what I see, they would be surprised at themselves.

[str]

will be running Thursday oaklawn R8 in the 1 mile listed hot spring stakes #7 soldier n diplomat (8-1) .. even though they didn't go for a 7f race I think stepping down in class and cutting back a half furlong makes a lot of sense relative to what I said above .. I like him here and probably will offer some value

Sorry I have been MIA lately. A lot of things going on. This sounds like a nice spot ! The Pat Day mile popped into my mind right away as well when you mentioned it before but that race seems to come up so darn tough every year. They run real fast fractions and while it is supposed to be not crazy tough, it seems like it usually is. Without looking at the race, 8-1 is attractive IMO . Real good spot for possible value.

[JBEX]

soldier n diplomat (army mule) is a scheduled to run on sunday in the rebel stakes at oaklawn .. this race is the 2nd leg in their derby prep series .. it's R11 and he's #10 (10-1 ml) .. post time is 6:23

his race was over right out of the gate..my feeling is he will be off the derby trail (even with the legit excuse) and won't head to a final prep..love to see him run in the listed stakes for 3yo at 7f on opening day at keeneland .. think that'd be a perfect spot and he might benefit for a race like that off the conditioning he got yesterday

will be running Thursday oaklawn R8 in the 1 mile listed hot spring stakes #7 soldier n diplomat (8-1) .. even though they didn't go for a 7f race I think stepping down in class and cutting back a half furlong makes a lot of sense relative to what I said above .. I like him here and probably will offer some value

[batt33]

OK Batt. I have a meeting tomorrow morning with the boss, that is, you don't get any higher, at Laurel to discuss two things. A way to get howell! Whatrsemen and ,management to work together instead of against each other for the betterment of both parties and the heroes fund I am trying to get support for which helps those lifelong backstretch workers who can no longer work, with financial education, understanding, and monetary support when needed. I think I have a winner with what I have come up with that will not only help the Md. people but with the track being a copycat system, help any jurisdiction that wants to implement it. And why not? All it takes is effort. The same effort that all those old employees put in to the game everyday, including, Christmas, Thanksgiving, Easter, you name it. I know Batt gets it because he lived it. But for those of you that did not, the comradery and unspoken bond between fellow workers. Hopefully, it resonates with management.
I'll keep you posted.

Had a "divert to Reno for a reset" Hope the meeting went well! What blows my mind is in California is that Illegal aliens get more benefits with no questions asked than people who want to work for a living and need a "hand up" not a" hand out" the "backside " of the industry needs help and respect for the care and dedication they give...

[JBEX]

hey str

realize you're busy and no problem if you can't but if you have a chance could you take a look at replay of turfway park R3 .. #9 dinglewood looks like he failed to switch leads for a while and drifted towards the rail .. responded nicely and came again when he finally did and missed by a little over a length .. might be a good follow

saw 3 army mules but i think the one going at oaklawn R10 is a little interesting at a price ..#7 razorback army (20-1) out [17-1] same with the other two at 9-1 and 25-1


best of luck and hope things go well with your meeting tomorrow

[str]

STR... the love and compassion you have for ...hmmm how do I convey this... the "industry " what we grew up with ...know and love.. seems like it has taken a backseat to some "individuals" yeah "stronach group" looking at you also..... so flipping frustrating that California.... Maryland horse racing has declined and the powers that be don't give a flying ..F.... good grief do they realize how many people they effect?? ugh

OK Batt. I have a meeting tomorrow morning with the boss, that is, you don't get any higher, at Laurel to discuss two things. A way to get horsemen and ,management to work together instead of against each other for the betterment of both parties and the heroes fund I am trying to get support for which helps those lifelong backstretch workers who can no longer work, with financial education, understanding, and monetary support when needed. I think I have a winner with what I have come up with that will not only help the Md. people but with the track being a copycat system, help any jurisdiction that wants to implement it. And why not? All it takes is effort. The same effort that all those old employees put in to the game everyday, including, Christmas, Thanksgiving, Easter, you name it. I know Batt gets it because he lived it. But for those of you that did not, the comradery and unspoken bond between fellow workers. Hopefully, it resonates with management.
I'll keep you posted.

[batt33]

STR... the love and compassion you have for ...hmmm how do I convey this... the "industry " what we grew up with ...know and love.. seems like it has taken a backseat to some "individuals" yeah "stronach group" looking at you also..... so flipping frustrating that California.... Maryland horse racing has declined and the powers that be don't give a flying ..F.... good grief do they realize how many people they effect?? ugh

[str]

As always STR I enjoy reading your takes! and wanted to hear the"other side" sorta speak..Like you said hopefully cooler heads prevail. The Industry cannot afford to lose Maryland racing....

You know Batt, I think I need to expound a bit more. I reread my statement on Md. racing and I want to make sure people know that I do NOT feel as though I have all the answers. Heck, probably don't have many at all. My frustrati0on runs very deep though.

Other than meeting my buddies, or an acquaintance at the track, I have had virtually no contact with the place since I left. Yes, I have a ton of old friends still there and it is always great to see them. But I am really stunned at what I am seeing and experiencing there. Friends and co workers are still there. More than a few that worked with me that are now trainers, starters, owners, agents , all sorts of stuff. What I am when I think about it is disappointed. Almost somewhat embarrassed. Maybe it is because I was so young when I started training. I don't know. It's just that I thought that from what I saw, and how things were handled, I assumed that when MY age group was older and basically ran the place, it would only be better. Not that it wasn't good, but that as all of us grew, we would all improve and make the entire thing be even more . So I am gone and now start to come back around and what I see in my heart is, me, and others that were about my age, are now old but we , IMO, have let the racetrack down in that, we have simply become the old school representitives.
Instead of the younger generation seeing how things were from their viewpoint and building to improve the track for everyone, all it seems we are are now the old people doing what the older people did when we were young. We are NOT making a difference IMO.

Now a big YES, to the question of "has the MTHA and those that have served or do serve on that board, many of which are friends or at least certainly acquaintances, improved the overall status of the backside and the product"? YES. They really have. There are so many positive things that have been implemented. I would call them out if that was not the case. It is sooo much better. But, there is a generation of workers who are somewhat forgotten, and while those that are old enough to remember them do care, and try with what they have, there are others in positions that are paid positions and IMHO, don't give a rats ass about those that either can no longer work at the pace necessary to keep steady work or have had to leave the backside. For those, back when the retirement program was not around or in it's infancy , as 75 and 80 yr. old's today, are left out on their own with little chance to make things work and live much of a life at all.

I have a 6 page proposal I have drafted that I will eventually share I guess, to help those in need as well as prevent the next generation of workers to make the same financial mistakes through education that would actually pay them to learn finance. Yep, pay them to graduate. It would be pass, fail. Fail, nothing. Pass. 300 hundred bucks in cash. And, the knowledge moving forward to be able to plan for retirement. Seven steps that people choose to take that if they did not, they would find themselves in a MUCH better financial position as they aged. Education. The true key to happiness.
I will post all this stuff in due time but not quite yet. I WILL GIVE Md. Racing by best shot first. Those wonderful people I worked both beside and against for 29 years deserve the dignity of at least effort from their fellow workers that might be able to help them. Just as they would have and did help everyone that needed it when they could do so.

By and large the MTHA and those that work there are trying. But there are some that are as worthless as a 3rd stirrup and do as little as possible to collect the paycheck they receive. They are a disgrace in my opinion and honestly, they make me want to puke.

Nothing I respect more than someone who helps the next one in line but it frosts my butt when I see a jackass pull up in a new Tesla while driving past those that spent a lifetime making trainers and riders leaders in their fields without even a wave .
I would not have won a single race if it wasn't for the entire team. Guess some of those have forgotten that or never understood it at all.

[batt33]

As always STR I enjoy reading your takes! and wanted to hear the"other side" sorta speak..Like you said hopefully cooler heads prevail. The Industry cannot afford to lose Maryland racing....

[str]

Str, What is your take on the Article in the Blood horse Magazine on the cancellation?

Sorry Batt. Busy week.

1. 1st cancellation in recent memory?

For lack of entries, I do not recall that happening unless it snuck in when I was gone.

2. Go up against the Va. Derby?

Big overlook to run on Va. Derby day. They share horses so everyone will go there for the bigger pots.

I cannot imagine that will take place next year. Make it a dark day or even weekend. Make Friday a real solid card. An honest mistake this year. No problem. But I would learn from it moving forward. The Va. Derby is points towards the Kent. Derby. Enough said.

3. Inclement weather had horses not ready to run?

Nonsense. Guess he had to say something . Like it didn't snow 3 feet at Bowie back in the day. Heck, the Florida Air plane hit the bridge on Jan,. 13th in DC. leaving National( Reagan) airport. We ran a full card that day. My wife was very pregnant with our first child. Never forget it.

4. . A steady shift towards turf racing ? Well Jerry ( John) Robb will get mad at me if he sees this, and we are good friends. I will be talking with him soon as well as others. Never met Jamie Ness and look forward to it. I have been talking to many trainers and the racing office the last few weeks. Really trying to do my part to bridge the gap in Md. racing. It's deep right now but it is not hard to fix. Need to convince the horsemen, not the racing office. Already spoke with them.

Here's the deal in simple terms:
The races are not filling with offering 11 or 12 races a day. So... They have to put up extras. The racing Sec. job is to get as full a group of fields as possible. That is her job. She's paid by management. Turf races always draw a ton of horses. Meanwhile she has trainers coming to her saying can she please write a 5 1/2 F. race 10K INSTEAD OF 6, 6 1/2, 7, OR A MILE. Why? The trainers answer is the horse can't go 6F. Um,... bullshi* ! Run it for the right number and it will go 6F. And if it is winded, Charlestown goes 4 1/2 and leave the horse there. But if she is nice and tries for that trainer, well, then 5 1/2 is too short for 3 other trainers.

Trainers don't want to try and support the sec. office because in the summer, that same race going 6 or 7 might get 7 or 8 horses in it but the racing Sec. decides to use sub 9, the extra race which is a turf race for 10k and it gets 14 in it. So the sprinters are screwed because management puts the heat onto use the big field to help the handle and the sprint trainers get pissed and run out of town and then are not ready for the race when it comes back in 11 days. See the problem??

IT'S A TWO WAY STREET ! BOTH HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THAT, respect that, and work together. PERIOD !

Any other result will spell disaster for Md. Racing.


It is not incumbent to acquire turf horses. They can only run in Md. from very late April until October and not at Timonium in August. Four months, maybe 5. That's it. Laurel is in a 100 year flood plain. That turf course cannot be run on when it is wet AND, it is slow to dry because of the water table. Anyone that wants to challenge the flood plain issue is hoping you don't really know. Unfortunately, I do. Lived here since I was 18.

Bottom line: I am doing what I can to bring the horsemen and management together to have this discussion. John Robb does know this. He's been there since I was 18 and before then. Think they just need to cool off and have a mediator that knows both sides of it and can't be Bullshi**ed. Well that's me. Hopefully cooler heads will prevail. The racing office will have to dance first because we are still in winter. But it won't be too long before management will have to concede some of those 12 horse fields to accommodate the horses that support the off season racing. Work together or fight each other? Which will occur ? I'm going to try. We'll see.

[JBEX]

Your in the ballpark JBEX. More so than some of the trainers comments at their meeting last week from what I heard.

The book is written a month plus before it starts. It is written based on what horses are stabled there. The secretary has a list of every horse on the grounds. Naturally, the majority of horses are claimers. The problem is, the horsemen are NOT talking to the Racing Sec.

That secretary and the horsemen have to work together, as one, and the horsemen can't seem to get this. THEY ACTUALLY NEVER HAVE.
If the horsemen would walk into the racing sec. office and speak directly to the racing secretary, they could go right down the line with their large stable and inform him or her where each horse was going to run and when. The secretary keeps a count of who is committed and just like that, they know before the 1st entry is made what is going on. This allows races to fill with expectation which is vital to getting a decent card put together. But when nobody communicates, then the race doesn't fill, the horsemen want to ship out for a race. This screws up both the racing sec. AND all the other trainers trying to get that race to fill. But the damn horsemen somehow think the racing sec. is being difficult when she gets upset when they ship out. Let's see. They use Laurel 's water, laurels track, Laurels real estate , electricity, waste management, etc. but ship to Phily. Park because their horse is sitting on a race. Then, they can't enter back because the van ride took too much out of the horse when the race comes back in the book in 11 days. It is a vicious cycle of stupid to cut right too it.

Trainers need races to fill when they enter. Otherwise, they are up against a multitude of things. Working as one cohesive unit makes more sense. They are a TEAM , like it or not. And both sides need to perform equally and work together.

Example: Next Friday I will be using the 1,3,4,7,9 sub 1 and sub 2 in the condition book. Seven total entries on the card. You get all the trainers to do that and the Secretary is in great shape and does not have to write extras because they already know these will fill. 9 out of 11 races offered fill and everybody is happy.

These were type of edges I took when I trained. Rarely a Stake horse for me. But my races filled. Maybe I was just lucky to have a best friend in the beginning of my career that was an asst. racing secretary at the time. We shared our thoughts after we went home for the day. Happy hour.. or two. LOL. I was in my early twenties. He went on the be the Director of Racing at Hollywood Park as well as Gulfstream Park. Bobby Umphrey. Still think about him . Miss him. You folks would have loved him. Man did we laugh. And we got it done. He filled them and I entered them. Like Peas and Carrots. He taught me a lot.

it's really amazing that there can't be better communication between the RS and trainers in regards to this ..seems like a small adjustment to make to ensure (or increase the chances) races fill which benefits everyone involved.... thanks str

[str]

Str, What is your take on the Article in the Blood horse Magazine on the cancellation?

I will read this today for sure.

[str]

am not sure I understand the mechanics of this .. what are the trainers doing wrong .. they are getting their horse ready for an upcoming race and it doesn't fill .. obviously not arguing with you on this but wouldn't races not filling have to do with the horse volume at the track and appropriate types of races for what's there ? the condition book is written well in advance so doesn't the racing secretary
have to try and anticipate what types of races might fill ? I guess the other thing you are saying is they should run these short field races as it's not fair to the trainers not to .. it will generate less betting volume but that's a hit the track must take to do the right thing .. I hope I'm in the ballpark with at least some of the things I've said lol

Your in the ballpark JBEX. More so than some of the trainers comments at their meeting last week from what I heard.

The book is written a month plus before it starts. It is written based on what horses are stabled there. The secretary has a list of every horse on the grounds. Naturally, the majority of horses are claimers. The problem is, the horsemen are NOT talking to the Racing Sec.

That secretary and the horsemen have to work together, as one, and the horsemen can't seem to get this. THEY ACTUALLY NEVER HAVE.
If the horsemen would walk into the racing sec. office and speak directly to the racing secretary, they could go right down the line with their large stable and inform him or her where each horse was going to run and when. The secretary keeps a count of who is committed and just like that, they know before the 1st entry is made what is going on. This allows races to fill with expectation which is vital to getting a decent card put together. But when nobody communicates, then the race doesn't fill, the horsemen want to ship out for a race. This screws up both the racing sec. AND all the other trainers trying to get that race to fill. But the damn horsemen somehow think the racing sec. is being difficult when she gets upset when they ship out. Let's see. They use Laurel 's water, laurels track, Laurels real estate , electricity, waste management, etc. but ship to Phily. Park because their horse is sitting on a race. Then, they can't enter back because the van ride took too much out of the horse when the race comes back in the book in 11 days. It is a vicious cycle of stupid to cut right too it.

Trainers need races to fill when they enter. Otherwise, they are up against a multitude of things. Working as one cohesive unit makes more sense. They are a TEAM , like it or not. And both sides need to perform equally and work together.

Example: Next Friday I will be using the 1,3,4,7,9 sub 1 and sub 2 in the condition book. Seven total entries on the card. You get all the trainers to do that and the Secretary is in great shape and does not have to write extras because they already know these will fill. 9 out of 11 races offered fill and everybody is happy.

These were type of edges I took when I trained. Rarely a Stake horse for me. But my races filled. Maybe I was just lucky to have a best friend in the beginning of my career that was an asst. racing secretary at the time. We shared our thoughts after we went home for the day. Happy hour.. or two. LOL. I was in my early twenties. He went on the be the Director of Racing at Hollywood Park as well as Gulfstream Park. Bobby Umphrey. Still think about him . Miss him. You folks would have loved him. Man did we laugh. And we got it done. He filled them and I entered them. Like Peas and Carrots. He taught me a lot.

[str]

I will answer these asap. A few things to explain here.

[batt33]

Str, What is your take on the Article in the Blood horse Magazine on the cancellation?

[JBEX]

am not sure I understand the mechanics of this .. what are the trainers doing wrong .. they are getting their horse ready for an upcoming race and it doesn't fill .. obviously not arguing with you on this but wouldn't races not filling have to do with the horse volume at the track and appropriate types of races for what's there ? the condition book is written well in advance so doesn't the racing secretary
have to try and anticipate what types of races might fill ? I guess the other thing you are saying is they should run these short field races as it's not fair to the trainers not to .. it will generate less betting volume but that's a hit the track must take to do the right thing .. I hope I'm in the ballpark with at least some of the things I've said lol

[str]

From what I have learned to understand in my trips back there in recent weeks to Laurel, is the trainers for the most part, (never always), do not understand that working WITH the racing office makes training easier. Why? Because you train a horse up to a specific race. Then, the race does not fill. Now what? Well, you scramble around and try and find another spot. Let's stop right there. You have your horse built up to peak. Sitting on go. And now you have to wait another week or ten days or even 2-3 weeks ? That is detrimental to being at PEAK.
This is not rocket science. You cannot keep a horse that exists on ebb and flow at PEAK, for an unlimited time. Pretty simple. It's routine, it's a schedule. Throw that schedule off and you have havoc, confusion, and a loss of focus. Heck, we see it when an NFL team gets thrown off it's schedule. At least you can explain to the players what is going on and often times they still cannot fully adjust. And how does that usually work out for all parties? Answer : Not Well at all.

Do be aware of this: IF the Kentucky Derby was cancelled 3-4 days before the race and run 10 days later, IMO, the chances of a different outcome would be about 95%. And I don't mean a slight change. It would be much more than that.

The winning trainer would tell everyone exactly how they did it. And every trainer that lost would look back and know exactly why their horse did not run as well as it could. They probably would not admit it. But they would know.
Except for whatever horse actually jumped up and ran better. That would most likely happen as well.
I just shake my head. Love the game. Love those people. But damn. Can somebody please stand up and handle this ?

[batt33]

I just read that Laurel has cancelled the races for later this week for lack of entries.

I’ve never seen that in Md. before I do not think.
If the trainers understood that they need to work in conjunction with the racing secretary instead of against her, this would never happen. I learned that in the late 70’s. But try and tell some of these trainers today and they look at you like you are on the racing secretary’s side. Well… there is only one side and it’s to race. Anything else is ridiculous to even address.
Hard heads create thin wallets.Unbelievable!

I just read about it., Hopefully it's a one and done deal.

[str]

I just read that Laurel has cancelled the races for later this week for lack of entries.

I’ve never seen that in Md. before I do not think.
If the trainers understood that they need to work in conjunction with the racing secretary instead of against her, this would never happen. I learned that in the late 70’s. But try and tell some of these trainers today and they look at you like you are on the racing secretary’s side. Well… there is only one side and it’s to race. Anything else is ridiculous to even address.
Hard heads create thin wallets.Unbelievable!

[str]

just watched shadow dragon (army mule) gut out a win at aqueduct (honestly just came across it as the race went off) .. 1 1/8 miles on a muddy track ..runs in the alwance optional claimers and has to be up for sale now to qualify ..claimed in his prior race .. closing in on $500k career earnings and from army mule's 1st crop (so now a 6 year old)

we've discussed him multiple times befotre

Gutted out the win!

It's what makes them so intriguing. I always admired that in a horse.

[JBEX]

just watched shadow dragon (army mule) gut out a win at aqueduct (honestly just came across it as the race went off) .. 1 1/8 miles on a muddy track ..runs in the alwance optional claimers and has to be up for sale now to qualify ..claimed in his prior race .. closing in on $500k career earnings and from army mule's 1st crop (so now a 6 year old)

we've discussed him multiple times befotre

[JBEX]

Totally agree JBEX. Hope your right.

Derby fever ruins or sets many more horses back than it has ever helped develop. Whatever happened to running against a few cupcakes to start the career so as to learn about all the things only a race can help teach. You cannot duplicate all that stuff in ther mornings, try as you might.

yes he's had a few shots at it and imo (and yours) lt's time to move on .. I wouldn't be shocked if they ran him in a final prep but have a hunch they wont
.. looking down the road (if he's capable) wins or big efforts @ 7f to a mile in big races probably look good on a stallions resume ..realize it's a ways away from that but have to think it's in the back of the connections mind anyway

[str]

army mule speed and dam sire violence is speed so even on pedigree he's not meant to route let alone go 10f .. army mule as you know ran his final big race in the Carter at 7f and I think that's where this one will be best in extended one turn sprints..like to see him have a nice career and possibly be a sire down the road

Totally agree JBEX. Hope your right.

Derby fever ruins or sets many more horses back than it has ever helped develop. Whatever happened to running against a few cupcakes to start the career so as to learn about all the things only a race can help teach. You cannot duplicate all that stuff in ther mornings, try as you might.

[JBEX]

As you know, every single step for 3 yr. olds is all about the Ky. Derby until the Derby runs. Then, the very next morning, owners and trainers sober up and start making more logical decisions for their horses. It's like a drug. Incredible !

For the vast majority of all horses, including the winners sometimes, getting the Derby in the rear view mirror is almost a blessing. I find it to be the craziest thing but it never changes.
You are most likely right JBEX.

army mule speed and dam sire violence is speed so even on pedigree he's not meant to route let alone go 10f .. army mule as you know ran his final big race in the Carter at 7f and I think that's where this one will be best in extended one turn sprints..like to see him have a nice career and possibly be a sire down the road

[str]

his race was over right out of the gate..my feeling is he will be off the derby trail (even with the legit excuse) and won't head to a final prep..love to see him run in the listed stakes for 3yo at 7f on opening day at keeneland .. think that'd be a perfect spot and he might benefit for a race like that off the conditioning he got yesterday

As you know, every single step for 3 yr. olds is all about the Ky. Derby until the Derby runs. Then, the very next morning, owners and trainers sober up and start making more logical decisions for their horses. It's like a drug. Incredible !

For the vast majority of all horses, including the winners sometimes, getting the Derby in the rear view mirror is almost a blessing. I find it to be the craziest thing but it never changes.
You are most likely right JBEX.

[JBEX]

Second race off a lay off and Ortiz rides him back.... He has a chance! How many times do I look at a race when the favorite dominates other horses in the field in previous races and then they come back to win the next race...

his race was over right out of the gate..my feeling is he will be off the derby trail (even with the legit excuse) and won't head to a final prep..love to see him run in the listed stakes for 3yo at 7f on opening day at keeneland .. think that'd be a perfect spot and he might benefit for a race like that off the conditioning he got yesterday

[batt33]

take a peek .. see what you think

hey you never know .. be nice to see him continue to what would probably be the arkansas derby

Second race off a lay off and Ortiz rides him back.... He has a chance! How many times do I look at a race when the favorite dominates other horses in the field in previous races and then they come back to win the next race...

[JBEX]

I haven't looked at the race yet... But as you know I have his daddy in the sire bets!

take a peek .. see what you think

hey you never know .. be nice to see him continue to what would probably be the arkansas derby

[batt33]

just a reminder cause I posted this 3 days ago.. I'm neutral on him this race and mainly rooting for him to do well because of the sire..not a lot of speed inside of him and think he should be able to secure a good position into the turn to overcome the post..also might be a little tighter 2nd off the layoff ..ultimately think he's more cut out to be a sprinter/miler type but would love to see a good performance today and a shot to move on to a final leg prep race

I haven't looked at the race yet... But as you know I have his daddy in the sire bets!