So those games were all 1st games in a series or a variety? I am taking a run here at this to get exactly on the same page... be back. Also, you said that you'd use an 8%; what percent did you use that produced the first results, and might a lessor home/away edge be better. My feelings now in 2010 is that the home advantage isn't as strong as it was. We could check this though season to date and previous.
-
Comment -
Here's a simpler way of explaining the Window-8 System:
#1 - Fade a HF who has lost at least 5 of their last 8 (at Home) - their record could be 3-5, 2-6, 1-7, or 0-8. Fading them results in a bet on an AD. I will now label these bets on ADs as HF-
#2 - Fade an AF who has lost at least 5 of their last 8 (Away) - their record could be 3-5, 2-6, 1-7, or 0-8. Fading them results in a bet on a HD. I will now label these bets on HDs as AF-
#3 - Play an AD who has won at least 5 of their last 8 (Away) - their record could be 5-3, 6-2, 7-1, or 8-0. Playing them results in a bet on an AD. I will now label these bets on ADs as AD+
#4 - Play a HD who has won at least 5 of their last 8 (at Home) - their record could be 5-3, 6-2, 7-1, or 8-0. Playing them results in a bet on an HD. I will now label these bets on ADs as HD+
The above are all 1-sided situations. Let's talk about 2-sided situations -
#5 - Situation when an AD who has won at least 5 of their last 8 (Away) is playing a HF who has lost at least 5 of their last 8 (at Home). This is a combination of #3 AD+ AND #1 HF-
I called this category "X" on a previous post, so let's continue to call it X.
#6 - Situation when a HD who has won at least 5 of their last 8 (at Home) is playing an AF who has lost at least 5 of their last 8 (Away). This is a combination of #4 HD+ AND #2 AF-
I called this category "Y" on a previous post, so let's continue to call it Y.
There are a few other combinations that are not included above. Thurber - this is the "morphed" part of the system. These are when an AF or HF has an advantage (over their opponent) beginning with 4 wins or more. These will be designated as -
I will shorten Away Faves to AF (which we will pass on, as my year-to-date record will prove).
I will shorten some Home Faves to HF (which we will pass on, as my year-to-date record will prove); and ...
I will shorten the other Home Faves to HF+ (these will be the lower-priced HFs, which are good plays).
I am double-checking my records for these and post them when I'm done, hopefully before I go in to work at 4 PM. If not, I'll post them after 9 PM when I get home.
~ Vinny Vidivicci
Comment -
Thurber - So those games were all 1st games in a series or a variety? I am taking a run here at this to get exactly on the same page... be back
No, the MoneyLine I computed for each series I am applying to EACH game of the series on an INDIVIDUAL game-by-game basis. I then go against overlays of 33 cents and more. What this amounts to (and intrigues me) is that we are taking the same position as the Books are on these games, against these perceived overlays.
~ Vinny VidivicciComment -
Thurber -
I used 8% as you'll see in the spreadsheet I sent you. I've used this number all the way through, consistently. As I mentioned, I grabbed 10% out of my brain and used 8% to be conservative.
As of right now through May 22 in MLB (650 games) -
Home Teams are 359-291 .552 winning pctg.
Let's do the math below -
Home - 108% of 50% of 650 games >>>>> (.50)times(1.08)times(650games) = 351 wins
Away - 92% of 50% of 650 games >>>>> (.50)times(0.92)times(650games) = 299 wins
So, actually Home Teams are over-achieving this year so far. You could go back and check past years, I believe 8% to 10% is average.
~ Vinny VidivicciComment -
I'll be posting the year-to-date records of the Window-8 system after 9 PM, due to time constraints; but I'll be able to include today's game's results (all except Yankees-Mets game).
~VVComment -
Okay gotcha.Originally posted by Vinny Vidivicci
I am just running each of the plays you posted. Let me know if I am doing this the same way that you are:
BAL 28.38% away minus 8%
WAS 56.76% [home exp. win percent using 1 / (1 + (RAinn/RSinn)^2)) plus 8% ]
pythaginn ML -200 (this is what is "should be")
closing line pinny = -125
difference is 75 cents against washington which is greater than 33 cents in the reverse direction of where the line should be so we take Baltimore as underdogs putting faith in the idea that those geniuses making the lines know what they are doing
. Good approach to base of "their say" as they have far more resources than us.
BOS 43.69% away -8%
PHI 73.77% Home +8%
pythaginn ML = -168
Philly closing line = -201 to -230
difference = 33 cents against Philliy (you picked PHI?)
*** on this one we have the same situation as above, and in this case we would take the FADE (Boston); however, you selected Phillies. Was this an error or am I looking at this differently than you.
TEX 63.53% (home)
CUB 45.55 % (away)
pythaginn ML = -139
Texas closing line = -183
difference = 44 cents against TEX (you picked TEX?)
FLA 43.59% (away)
CWS 61.15% (home)
pythaginn ML = -140
CWS closing line +133
difference is 73 cents again CWS Strong play!
etc. etc. etc.
Is this how you are doing it?Comment -
Thanks for running this; was actually about to check this next. Results weren't what I expected for this season. I thought 2010 would carry less of an advantage on home teams as attendence appears to be lower...Originally posted by Vinny VidivicciComment -
Literally walking out the door now -
I'll help you with it later tonight if OK - I'm late for work (not that I give 2 shits) now.
~ VVComment -
Originally posted by Vinny Vidivicci
Must be an awesome job. Where are you working on Sunday?
I'll see you later on. BOL with your plays today, and of course work.Comment -
My job AND this system sucks; 1-6 today.
I sell cell-phones; activations, upgrades, etc. for AT&T, Verizon and T-Mobile.
Dealing with the public in a retail environment.
Nights and week-ends.
The so-called Law of Averages bit me in the a@@ today with this new idea. If you really want to know what my numbers were (compared to yours) to see if you were doing it right, we can compare them at a future date.
Right now, I want to update the Window-8 records so I can post them here like I promised.
~ Vinny VidivicciComment -
10-9-1 +7.03 unitsOriginally posted by therber2Comment -
Hey Vinny, funny. I think that we are using different methods. Did you look over the 4 examples of how I did it? Those went 3-1...I'll send you an email and we can go over this.Originally posted by Vinny VidivicciComment -
Right now I'm trying to label some of these Window-8 picks and I'm having a hard time because the data on my spreadsheet is from Heritage and they use a 10 cent line.
I'm going to double-check the games in question with the link to MatchBook's closing lines that someone gave me a few pages back.
~ VVComment -
Just got done labeling all of the Window-8 picks, all I have to do is to tally them up which I'll do first thing in the (late) AM. I'll post the year-to-date results along with the designated labels. I'll probably repost my earlier post where I explained what all of the labels are, IE. AD+, AF-, HF+, etc., etc., etc.
Tomorrow will be a good day to catch up on loose ends - only 4 games tomorrow night.
I hope no-one tailed that "reverse-logic" thingy today. Thurber - you and I can catch up on that, soon, also.
12:56 AM here - I'm turning in.
~ Vinny VidivicciComment -
Simple explanation of the Window-8 System:
#1 - Fade a HF who has lost at least 5 of their last 8 (at Home) - their record could be 3-5, 2-6, 1-7, or 0-8. Fading them results in a bet on an AD. I will now label these bets on ADs as HF-
#2 - Fade an AF who has lost at least 5 of their last 8 (Away) - their record could be 3-5, 2-6, 1-7, or 0-8. Fading them results in a bet on a HD. I will now label these bets on HDs as AF-
#3 - Play an AD who has won at least 5 of their last 8 (Away) - their record could be 5-3, 6-2, 7-1, or 8-0. Playing them results in a bet on an AD. I will now label these bets on ADs as AD+
#4 - Play a HD who has won at least 5 of their last 8 (at Home) - their record could be 5-3, 6-2, 7-1, or 8-0. Playing them results in a bet on an HD. I will now label these bets on ADs as HD+
The above are all 1-sided situations. Let's talk about 2-sided situations -
#5 - Situation when an AD who has won at least 5 of their last 8 (Away) is playing a HF who has lost at least 5 of their last 8 (at Home). This is a combination of #3 AD+ AND #1 HF-
I called this category "X" on a previous post, so let's continue to call it X.
#6 - Situation when a HD who has won at least 5 of their last 8 (at Home) is playing an AF who has lost at least 5 of their last 8 (Away). This is a combination of #4 HD+ AND #2 AF-
I called this category "Y" on a previous post, so let's continue to call it Y.
There are a few other combinations that are not included above. These occur when an AF or HF has an advantage (over their opponent) beginning with 4 wins or more.
I will label Away Faves - AF (which we will PASS on).
I will label some Home Faves - HF (These are over -1.40 which we will PASS on); and other Home Faves I will label HF+ (These are under -1.40 which are value).
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have current, updated records below, and I have bolded in RED the VALUE Plays.
#1 - HF- ................ 11-14 straight-up ............. 15-10 with +1.5 runs - Take the Away Dog
#2 - AF- ................ 14-11 straight-up ............. 17-8 with +1.5 runs - Take the Home Dog
#3 - AD+ ............... 12-10 straight-up ............. 15-7 with +1.5 runs - Take the Away Dog
#4 - HD+ ............... 13-14 straight-up ............. 16-11 with +1.5 runs - Take the Home Dog
#5 - X .................... 5-5 straight-up ................ 5-5 with +1.5 runs - Pass
#6 - Y .................... 3-7 straight-up ................ 7-3 with +1.5 runs -Take the Home Dog
AF's (under -150) ....... 19-14 straight-up .................................... - Pass
AF's (over -150) ......... 5-11 straight-up ...................................... - Take Home Dog
HF'S (under -140) ....... 42-17 straight-up ................................... - Take Home Fave
HF'S (over -140) ......... 61-46 straight-up ................................... - Pass
I will post the plays from this system here daily, and keep a new record beginning today to see if this system has any value. I will keep the record using the labels above.
Good-Luck,
~Vinny VidivicciComment -
Monday, May 24 -
Window-8 System :
Format -
Team with last 8 game advantage (their Ws-opponent's Ws) ---- "label" ---Play or Pass.
Cincinnati (6-3) HF -------------------- PASS Cincinnati -173 at Matchbook
White Sox (4-2) AF ------------------- PASS White Sox -138 at Matchbook
Tampa Bay (5-4) HF+ ------------------ PLAY Tampa Bay -126 at Matchbook
Angels (5-3) HF+ ----------------------- PLAY Angels -123 at Matchbook
~ Vinny VidivicciComment -
Hey Vinny; great job with your work there. No plays stand out that much to me since we are dealing with three teams that were previously swept (Boston, Toronto, and CWS). Just pointing out here Vinny that your two window 8 picks are going against the grain there in that respect. Personally, I'd do a NO PLAY on both. I am very interested to see how the day pans out here with that in mind.
The other thing about the two picks are the lines. For Tampa Bay, using my tweaked expectation formula I am coming up with -160 odds for Tampa Bay at home vs. Boston. The actual vegas odds opened at -125 and overnighted to -130 or so. This is telling me that the lines guys see more merit in taking Boston today.
I'll take Boston for +1.5 -170 (.5 units)
and the ML for +121 (.5 units)
As for LAA, I like this one; I am seeing an expected line of -125 for the Toronto Blue Jays. The overnight is now +118 and moving towards +120. My calculations are showing each team playing above their means so that sort of makes this an anything goes game. I see a lot of value in taking the Jays since they were previously swept and are dogs now;
Blue Jays +125 (1 unit)
Cleveland Indians -125 +1.5 (0 units)
(value in this case since Vegas gave CWS 50 cents and the market moved it back 10 cents towards CLE). NO PLAY as the White Sox were previously swept. Note to self
Comment -
The following trends:
I have found that each of the following situations are yielding 64% plus results.
2010 Season
Situation 1:
Situation is to determine what happens game 3 after the Dog (for game 3) has lost game 1 and won game 2. The SDQL query is:
series game=3 and p:W and pp:L and D
Record for this is 16 wins for the Dog out of 25 situations for 2010 season.
64% WIN RATE
**Note it makes a huge difference that it is the second game of the series won
ie. series game=3 and p:L and pp:W and F (favorite) only hits at 36%. This is due to a loss of momentum
Situation 2:
Situation is to determine what happens game 3 after the Favorite (for game 3) has lost game 1 and won game 2. The SDQL query is:
series game=3 and p:W and pp:L and F
Record for this is 16 wins for the Favorite out of 25 situations for 2010 season.
64% WIN RATE (weird that it happens to be exactly the same but I checked it; someone may want to dbl check).
Situation 3:
Situation is to determine what happens game 2 after the Favorite (for game 2) has lost game 1 (as a favorite). The SDQL query is:
series game=2 and p:FL and F
Record for this is 15 wins for the Favorite out if 26 situations for the 2010 season.
57.69% WIN RATE (losses usually occur when the favorite is <.500 I think, but haven't thouroly checked this.
a few more queries I'd like to try from here would be:
series game=2 and p:L and F
series game=2 and p:HL and F
series game=2 and p:FL and H
etc.
Statfox, covers, and all those guys do trends a lot; not a big fan in general as they aren't always logical IMO; however, I found this extensive archive of profitable queries if anyone is interested:Comment -
**I did that all pretty quick so someone may want to dble check it. Fairly certain I did it corectly. Also, sycoog; I know that you are a bit fed up with the backtesting, but if anyone has the capabilities or knowledge, and would like to help there we could see it these trends hold up past 2 or three seasons.
Thanks fellasComment -
seemed sound for me ber, ty bud.
Comment -
You checked it and got 64% for 1 and two as well?Originally posted by ceoseemed sound for me ber, ty bud.
Anyone know what I'd query there to get all available data off the server? When I type in that query it just gives 2010.Comment -
Hey Therber. Been following your thread silently and wanted to let you know that your the 1st thread I look at when I log in. Great picks and info! Thanks!Comment -
Well it is a nice forum. Glad your first post was here.
Comment -
5/25 Big Card
early leans:
Boston +107 (6 units) * tam lost game1 as favorite but previously swept Boston exp. line for TAM=-152 actual only -110 Boston is still out for blood.
BOS/TAM o8 (.5 units)
Toronto -107 (3 units) dizzying line movement and Toronto is just the better team; better SP; better bullpen
TOR/LAA o8 (3 units)
Reds -165 (2 units) *won game1 as favorite
CIN/PIT u8.5 (3 units)
STL -124 (1 units)
STL/SDG o6 (.5 units)
CUBS -110 (0 units) *exp. -130 for Cubs. Actual = -110... hmm.
CUB/LOS u8 (2 units)
Brewers -150 (6 units)
MIL/HOU u9.5 (1 unit)
Marlins -125 (4 units) this was a big one indicated by vegas
ATL/FLA u9 (2 units)
Oakland -110 (1 unit)
OAK/BAL u8 (.5 units)
Nationals +113 (2 units)
WAS/SFO o8 (1 unit)
PHI -125 (1 units) exp. favorite today is NYM**
NYM/PHI o9 (.5 units)
NYY -108 (3 units)
MIN/NYY u10 (.5 units)
Tigers -125 (1 unit)
DET/SEA o6.5 (3 units)
Rockies -125 (3 units)
COL/ARI u9.5 (1 unit)
CWS -132 (2 units) *won game1 as favorites; previously swept by Indians. Indians as expected favorites, but dogs. This play would be higher, but CLE is hot and CWS just sorta ehh...isn't that good.
CWS/CLE u8.5 (3 units)
Rangers -130 (7 units) exp. favorite is KC** FADE play
KC/TEX u10 (1 unit)
EDIT: Note to Vinny: I will try to go through and bold exactly which picks were based on the "what vegas is telling me picks"=bolded I recorded these game in a spreadsheet on my laptop. Looks like these picks turned out to be the most successful! I'll try to elaborate more once I get the xls file of the ltop. For now look at the bolded. The other day and today Boston would be the best example. Texas for today I think but I'll have to look back
Comment -
[quote=therber2;4710263]I have found that each of the following situations are yielding 64% plus results.
2010 Season
Situation 1:
Situation is to determine what happens game 3 after the Dog (for game 3) has lost game 1 and won game 2. The SDQL query is:
series game=3 and p:W and pp:L and D
Record for this is 16 wins for the Dog out of 25 situations for 2010 season.
64% WIN RATE
**Note it makes a huge difference that it is the second game of the series won
ie. series game=3 and p:L and pp:W and F (favorite) only hits at 36%. This is due to a loss of momentum
Situation 2:
Situation is to determine what happens game 3 after the Favorite (for game 3) has lost game 1 and won game 2. The SDQL query is:
series game=3 and p:W and pp:L and F
Record for this is 16 wins for the Favorite out of 25 situations for 2010 season.
64% WIN RATE (weird that it happens to be exactly the same but I checked it; someone may want to dbl check).
Situation 3:
Situation is to determine what happens game 2 after the Favorite (for game 2) has lost game 1 (as a favorite). The SDQL query is:
series game=2 and p:FL and F
Record for this is 15 wins for the Favorite out if 26 situations for the 2010 season.
57.69% WIN RATE (losses usually occur when the favorite is <.500 I think, but haven't thouroly checked this.
a few more queries I'd like to try from here would be:
series game=2 and p:L and F
series game=2 and p:HL and F
series game=2 and p:FL and H
etc.
Statfox, covers, and all those guys do trends a lot; not a big fan in general as they aren't always logical IMO; however, I found this extensive archive of profitable queries if anyone is interested:
An additional trend found:
For the 2010 season favorites in game 2 of a series who have won game1 of the series as favorites (series game=2 and p:FW and F) goes 16-7 69.5%
(series game=2 and p:FL and F) goes 15-9 62.5%Comment -
Therber -
RE : An additional trend found:
For the 2010 season favorites in game 2 of a series who have won game1 of the series as favorites (series game=2 and p:FL and F) goes 16-7 69.5%
Red Sox over Tampa Bay? Would that apply to the above trend?
~ Vinny Vidivicci
Edit - To answer my own question - NO, it would NOT apply, because Boston was not a favorite Monday.Comment -
Window-8 System (May 25) -
Play or Fade -
Atlanta AD +1.5 Runs
LA Dodgers AD +1.5 Runs
Colorado HF -130 Moneyline
San Francisco HF -116 Moneyline
Baltimore HD +1.5 Runs
Tampa Bay HF -105 Moneyline
Minnesota HD +1.5 Runs
Kansas City HD +1.5 Runs
LA Angels HD +1.5 Runs
Good Luck -
~ Vinny VidivicciComment -
Vinny,Originally posted by Vinny VidivicciTherber -
RE : An additional trend found:
For the 2010 season favorites in game 2 of a series who have won game1 of the series as favorites (series game=2 and p:FL and F) goes 16-7 69.5%
Red Sox over Tampa Bay? Would that apply to the above trend?
~ Vinny Vidivicci
Edit - To answer my own question - NO, it would NOT apply, because Boston was not a favorite Monday.
I wrote that out wrong***
Corrected version is this!
For the 2010 season favorites in game 2 of a series who have won game1 of the series as favorites (series game=2 and p:FW and F) goes 16-7 69.5%
(series game=2 and p:FL and F) goes 15-9 62.5%
The winning favorite for today is Cincinati. As for Tampa they fit into the second situation where the favorite Loses game1 and is a favorite again; however, other factors apply here, and I am actually taking Boston again (based on what "Vegas is saying" and the fact that they were swept last series and out for blood now.)
Boston situation: series game=2 and p: DW and D goes 9-15 (37.5%) FYI yes sometimes you break your own rules...
Comment -
Nice Vinny, I was wondering when these were due to arriveOriginally posted by Vinny Vidivicci
Would you mind keeping a record on these pretty please?Comment -
Thurber -
I wish you would post your "What Vegas Is Saying" picks here. Well, maybe not, because if they are all that good, then your picks may create a different thing that "Vegas Says" (you get the idea).
But I'm trying to get my head around the logic behind it - please give me an explanation - pick a game for an example and walk me through it if you could.
~ Vinny VidivicciComment -
Originally posted by therber2early leans:
Boston +107 (6 units) * tam lost game1 as favorite but previously swept Boston exp. line for TAM=-152 actual only -110 Boston is still out for blood.
BOS/TAM o8 (.5 units)
Toronto -107 (3 units) dizzying line movement and Toronto is just the better team; better SP; better bullpen
TOR/LAA o8 (3 units)
Reds -165 (2 units) *won game1 as favorite
CIN/PIT u8.5 (3 units)
STL -124 (1 units)
STL/SDG o6 (.5 units)
CUBS -110 (0 units) *exp. -130 for Cubs. Actual = -110... hmm.
CUB/LOS u8 (2 units)
Brewers -150 (6 units)
MIL/HOU u9.5 (1 unit)
Marlins -125 (4 units) this was a big one indicated by vegas
ATL/FLA u9 (2 units)
Oakland -110 (1 unit)
OAK/BAL u8 (.5 units)
Nationals +113 (2 units)
WAS/SFO o8 (1 unit)
PHI -125 (1 units) exp. favorite today is NYM**
NYM/PHI o9 (.5 units)
NYY -108 (3 units)
MIN/NYY u10 (.5 units) PPD
Tigers -125 (1 unit)
DET/SEA o6.5 (3 units)
Rockies -125 (3 units)
COL/ARI u9.5 (1 unit)
[B]CWS -132 (2 units) [/B]*won game1 as favorites; previously swept by Indians. Indians as expected favorites, but dogs. This play would be higher, but CLE is hot and CWS just sorta ehh...isn't that good.
CWS/CLE u8.5 (3 units)
Rangers -130 (7 units) exp. favorite is KC** FADE play
KC/TEX u10 (1 unit)
EDIT: Note to Vinny: I will try to go through and bold exactly which picks were based on the "what vegas is telling me picks"=bolded I recorded these game in a spreadsheet on my laptop. Looks like these picks turned out to be the most successful! I'll try to elaborate more once I get the xls file of the ltop. For now look at the bolded. The other day and today Boston would be the best example. Texas for today I think but I'll have to look back
13-12 +19.94 units
Only hit 52% but nailed 19.94 units today.Comment -
Originally posted by therber2early leans:
Boston +107 (6 units) * tam lost game1 as favorite but previously swept Boston exp. line for TAM=-152 actual only -110 Boston is still out for blood.
BOS/TAM o8 (.5 units)
Toronto -107 (3 units) dizzying line movement and Toronto is just the better team; better SP; better bullpen
TOR/LAA o8 (3 units)
Reds -165 (2 units) *won game1 as favorite
CIN/PIT u8.5 (3 units)
STL -124 (1 units)
STL/SDG o6 (.5 units)
CUBS -110 (0 units) *exp. -130 for Cubs. Actual = -110... hmm.
CUB/LOS u8 (2 units)
Brewers -150 (6 units)
MIL/HOU u9.5 (1 unit)
Marlins -125 (4 units) this was a big one indicated by vegas
ATL/FLA u9 (2 units)
Oakland -110 (1 unit)
OAK/BAL u8 (.5 units)
Nationals +113 (2 units)
WAS/SFO o8 (1 unit)
PHI -125 (1 units) exp. favorite today is NYM**
NYM/PHI o9 (.5 units)
NYY -108 (3 units)
MIN/NYY u10 (.5 units)
Tigers -125 (1 unit)
DET/SEA o6.5 (3 units)
Rockies -125 (3 units)
COL/ARI u9.5 (1 unit)
CWS -132 (2 units) *won game1 as favorites; previously swept by Indians. Indians as expected favorites, but dogs. This play would be higher, but CLE is hot and CWS just sorta ehh...isn't that good.
CWS/CLE u8.5 (3 units)
Rangers -130 (7 units) exp. favorite is KC** FADE play
KC/TEX u10 (1 unit)
EDIT: Note to Vinny: I will try to go through and bold exactly which picks were based on the "what vegas is telling me picks"=bolded I recorded these game in a spreadsheet on my laptop. Looks like these picks turned out to be the most successful! I'll try to elaborate more once I get the xls file of the ltop. For now look at the bolded. The other day and today Boston would be the best example. Texas for today I think but I'll have to look back Side note vinny. It looks like this is the only play we had in common.Originally posted by Vinny Vidivicci
Let's break this one down and the Texas game, and I'll get some plays that qualify as a favorite who lost game one, is a favorite for game two. That might be the right starting points for 5/26 IMO
Comment -
Brewers was an interesting play I had booked early on. Just notes to self right now. Gotta go be with the lady now. Cheers!Comment -
Actually Vinny give me until later on tomorrow. I'll just send you my whole file that I was looking at for today. It is very simple factors to start out. Maybe it'll click once you look at that. By the way, where is sycoog?Comment -
I'm going to hit the hay pretty late here now, but for tomorrow consider this 1. (series game=2 and p:FL and F) goes 16-8
2. series game=2 and p:FL and F
Record for this is 15 -8
3. series game=3 and p:FL and pp:FL and F
14-10
4. series game=3 and p:FL and pp: DW and D
9 - 17
5. series game=3 and p:FL and pp:FW and F
11- 12
Comment
