Another A book that is only interested in square action

[MonkeyF0cker]

Lines move off of second half openers in seconds. I think that offshore opens before Vegas HT. If you are going to play openers, I can't see being able to play in Vegas.

LMAO. Jesus Christ.

So how many offshore books originate HT lines? All of them, huh? LOL. Most offshores do exactly what most of Vegas does. Wait a bit and copy the line. Why do I ever even bother responding to your nonsense? Everything you post is pure drivel.

[ronald]

You guys are all missing the point!

MATT DOT COM is NOT retired!! Neither is FISHLER!

Wake up!

One day you guys will learn who who who who who......who they really are......

[raiders72001]

LMAO. Jesus Christ.

So how many offshore books originate HT lines? All of them, huh? LOL. Most offshores do exactly what most of Vegas does. Wait a bit and copy the line. Why do I ever even bother responding to your nonsense? Everything you post is pure drivel.

Just use Pinny, Greek, CRIS, 5Dimes. Many times the lines are different by 1 point at the same time but it only lasts for seconds during HT................ You have no idea what you are talking about. You can't make this shit up.

[raiders72001]

You guys are all missing the point!

MATT DOT COM is NOT retired!! Neither is FISHLER!

Wake up!

One day you guys will learn who who who who who......who they really are......

Mathy is sharp. Met Fishhead in Vegas years ago.

[evo34]

Books are in business to make money, kind of like every other business. Insurance companies raise prices to high risk customers and books lower limits to players that put the book at risk. Increase your bet to the max in the middle of a single deck BJ game in vegas and they will stop and shuffle. Its simple risk control and it happens in just about every business to some degree.

No, it doesn't. In a real, regulated gambling business (stock trading), you can't offer certain prices to certain customers only, based on your perception of their skill level. Any market made on the Nasdaq, for example, is there to be taken by a giant hedge fund or some 18-year-old's $100 account -- doesn't matter. You cannot check the source of the bid and then shrink your offer size (or shift your market) if you're nervous the source might be sharp.

[MonkeyF0cker]

Just use Pinny, Greek, CRIS, 5Dimes. Many times the lines are different by 1 point at the same time. You have no idea what you are talking about. You're talking full game, not HT. You can't make this shit up.

Now you're using Pinny and Oly? LMAO. Unbelievable the shit that you spew. You list four books - two of which aren't even U.S.-facing. Jesus Christ. Give up the charade, dumbfukk.

And 1 point differences like 2 point moves. Right? LOL. GTFOH.

I think you've embarrassed yourself enough for one night.

[raiders72001]

Now you're using Pinny and Oly? LMAO. Unbelievable the shit that you spew. You list four books - two of which aren't even U.S.-facing. Jesus Christ. Give up the charade, dumbfukk.

And 1 point differences like 2 point moves. Right? LOL. GTFOH.

I think you've embarrassed yourself enough for one night.

There are a ton more, I just wanted to use the major ones. You also have BP group, Legends, Carib, Justbet to name a few more. There is no way in the world that you play HT offshore.

I should have stopped reading you when you said that BW doesn't play teasers and that sharps don't buy points. We're still laughing about that across the street.

[MonkeyF0cker]

There are a ton more, I just wanted to use the major ones. You also have BP group, Legends, Justbet to name a few more. There is no way in the world that you play HT offshore.

And they're originating lines? LMAO. They're doing exactly what most of Vegas does, moron.

I should have stopped reading you when you said that BW doesn't play teasers and that sharps don't buy points. We're still laughing about that across the street.

I was talking about Vegas runners. It's not my fault that your reading comprehension rivals a five year old. But it's quite funny how you add the "we" in there since not one person over there respects you. Or are you referring to your other personalities? I do love how you ALWAYS change the subject to this when you've been thoroughly destroyed in an argument though. I believe this is the second time you've done it today as a matter of fact.

[evo34]

Patently false.

The problem arises when SBR stops by every night in their armored truck to collect their 30% of player losses, leaving not enough money to cover the winners. If the book had the same limits for them as they did for squares, they'd go bankrupt.

The math is simple, you can't pay two people (the winner and SBR) with the money from only one loser, unless you force the winners to accommodate SBR's cut by limiting them.

That's like saying Wal-Mart isn't paying employees enough because NBC is stopping by every night in an armored truck to collect ad fees. I'm pretty sure if customer acquisition costs exceeded new profits from these customers, the books would simply stop doing it. Unless you think SBR has a monopoly on referrals.

[raiders72001]

And they're originating lines? LMAO. .

You don't get it. If Greek originates, other books may follow but there will be line differences at the exact same time with lag and major moves. Stop thinking everything is full game and in Vegas. You don't understand the offshore HT market.

[Winner_13]

we all agree that pinnacle is the best offshore book out there...

they also have different limits for sharps/squares

not just cris/5d/heritage....so you have to add them into the list

[raiders72001]

Guys waiting in line to get a HT bet in at a casino is different than thousands hitting the game over the Internet at the same time.

[Winner_13]

lol, i like what mathy says about cantor....FINALLYYY!..tired of hearing all this hype.."best book in vegas, they take any bet"


..does any1 actually know how much cantor has profited?
I read an article claiming that they are down money since opening up

[Winner_13]

I can still get way more down online in my underwear in 1/100th the time

Lots of EV in Vegas but due to brick and mortar aspect, can't pump them all the time

But I am considering it exclusively to crush Cantor's weak numbers... have never come across a more overrated book in my life.

lol, i like what mathy says about cantor....FINALLYYY!..tired of hearing all this hype.."best book in vegas, they take any bet"


..does any1 actually know how much cantor has profited?
I read an article claiming that they are down money since opening up

[MonkeyF0cker]

You don't get it. If Greek originates, other books may follow but there will be line differences at the exact same time with lag and major moves.

No shit? And that's different from Vegas how?

Stop thinking everything is full game and in Vegas. You don't understand the offshore HT market.

Offshores are SO COMPLEX. LMAO. Unbelievable.

[MonkeyF0cker]

Guys waiting in line to get a HT bet in at a casino is different than thousands hitting the game over the Internet at the same time.

Hey, idiot. How many times do you need to be told that most Vegas books offer online and/or mobile wagering? And how many lines do you think there are for basketball halftimes? LMAO.

[MonkeyF0cker]

lol, i like what mathy says about cantor....FINALLYYY!..tired of hearing all this hype.."best book in vegas, they take any bet"


..does any1 actually know how much cantor has profited?
I read an article claiming that they are down money since opening up

Not sure about Cantor specifically. I'm sure overall they haven't made a great deal yet since they've invested so much in acquisitions and building their books. But in the month of September, Strip sportsbooks made $26 million and all Clark County sportsbooks made $46 million (which would include the M).

http://gaming.nv.gov/modules/showdocument.aspx?documentid=7368

[RogueScholar]

That's like saying Wal-Mart isn't paying employees enough because NBC is stopping by every night in an armored truck to collect ad fees. I'm pretty sure if customer acquisition costs exceeded new profits from these customers, the books would simply stop doing it. Unless you think SBR has a monopoly on referrals.

You're ignoring the fact that affiliate agreements are in force for the life of the account. NBC doesn't have perpetual rights to any residuals from the customers it brings to Wal-Mart, yet SBR has those rights to all the accounts it's been signing up with sponsors for over a decade now.

No major book would dare attempt to renegotiate this late in the game considering the power that SBR still has to smear them; just look at how marginalized Carib ended up after attempting to do exactly that. They'll ride those agreements out even as they go upside down, even with the wrecks of BetPhoenix and BetOnline foundering next door to them.

And while I wouldn't say SBR has a monopoly on referrals, as I stated earlier, the barriers to entry in the affiliate market only increase as the industry itself contracts. I don't anticipate any major shakeups in the affiliate world while the movement of funds in and out of country continues to increase in difficulty. That only strengthens SBR's ability to squeeze the remaining books as hard as they wish, short of inducing an artificial collapse.

[allin1]

MFer may be a legend here but he's an idiot at the other sites with experienced gamblers. It's not to put SBR down at all, but those that look up to him aren't well informed. MFer works solo. He's admitted that across the street. Not sure why anyone buys his BS.

what are these sites with experienced gamblers? where is across the street? what is MF's username there?

[allin1]

You guys are all missing the point!

MATT DOT COM is NOT retired!! Neither is FISHLER!

Wake up!

One day you guys will learn who who who who who......who they really are......

is mathy the one in his avatar? if so, he really looks like this guy:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/mpd/permalink/m3S8YCAU69S66N/ref=ent_fb_link

http://www.amazon.com/dp/159420411X

[raiders72001]

Hey, idiot. How many times do you need to be told that most Vegas books offer online and/or mobile wagering?

That's why guys consider you an idiot. What percentage of gamblers have money posted up at a sportsbook in Vegas and mobile bet compared to those that walk in a casino?

[SBR_John]

No, it doesn't. In a real, regulated gambling business (stock trading), you can't offer certain prices to certain customers only, based on your perception of their skill level. Any market made on the Nasdaq, for example, is there to be taken by a giant hedge fund or some 18-year-old's $100 account -- doesn't matter. You cannot check the source of the bid and then shrink your offer size (or shift your market) if you're nervous the source might be sharp.

I just had my margin requirements raised at a major broker. They were NOT raised because of an SEC rule, I was told it was a house rule because I had several large positions(instead of spread out risks). This is a better example than an auction exchange. The margin call I received pissed me off and greatly inconvenienced me. But at the end of the day they make the rules. Like books, we play there and if we are not satisfied with the rules or service we go elsewhere.

[raiders72001]

You're ignoring the fact that affiliate agreements are in force for the life of the account. NBC doesn't have perpetual rights to any residuals from the customers it brings to Wal-Mart, yet SBR has those rights to all the accounts it's been signing up with sponsors for over a decade now.

No major book would dare attempt to renegotiate this late in the game considering the power that SBR still has to smear them; just look at how marginalized Carib ended up after attempting to do exactly that. They'll ride those agreements out even as they go upside down, even with the wrecks of BetPhoenix and BetOnline foundering next door to them.

And while I wouldn't say SBR has a monopoly on referrals, as I stated earlier, the barriers to entry in the affiliate market only increase as the industry itself contracts. I don't anticipate any major shakeups in the affiliate world while the movement of funds in and out of country continues to increase in difficulty. That only strengthens SBR's ability to squeeze the remaining books as hard as they wish, short of inducing an artificial collapse.

The forums don't have the pull that they once had. Established books don't need the forums.

[SBR_John]

Where does an American with a brain get reduced juice for more than a week?

I know a lot of sharps play at both. Your buddy in vegas plays at Heritage and is good friends with the owner. You might of seen him on 60 Minutes? maybe youre sharper than him and have been kicked out of both???

[SBR_John]

Rouge I sure hope your business sense is better in real life than you display here. If Book A pays say a 30% referral and a player losses 1000 how much does Book A make? And if the referrer instead refers that player to some other book, how much does Book A make? This really is not rocket science.

Referrers and marketers create content at their own expense to bring in the audience. The books and other advertisers pay for it if they want in, and dont if they are not interested. SBR's content is expensive to manage so we certainly better produce or books and other sponsors will go elsewhere. Kind of like every other business, its not as complicated as RS pretends to think it is.

[rumnblack]

Established books don't need the forums.

But wouldn't want them against them either right?

[raiders72001]

But wouldn't want them against them either right?

The RX would run smear campaigns against books around 2003 that were effective. Books don't want bad press, but I haven't seen smear campaigns here at SBR. It seems as though they give favorable treatment to the books they like rather than negative press to the books they don't like.

[raiders72001]

Also, I don't think the bad press on Heritage and 5Dimes hurts them at all. It may even be favorable since it keeps their name to the forefront.

[sharpcat]

The RX would run smear campaigns against books around 2003 that were effective. Books don't want bad press, but I haven't seen smear campaigns here at SBR. It seems as though they give favorable treatment to the books they like rather than negative press to the books they don't like.

What SBR did to Sportsbetting.ag was the biggest smear campaign I have ever seen.

Easystreet mess was a smear campaign and attempt to steal the RX domain and all of their traffic.

Betphoenix got smeared after they stopped paying SBR (9 months after they stopped paying players)

[mathdotcom]

A comparison of offshore to Vegas depends on a lot of personal factors.

Vegas is relatively good if you're American and bet major sports based on a model; offshore is relatively much better if you're not American, and a bonus whore or line shopper.

I've always thought Monkey underrated offshore though. Until recently, there were so many shops just giving away money. Hollywood bonuses + soft lines made me happy to get out of bed every morning. Promo code PANCAKE25 to celebrate National Pancake Week. Promo code FIREMAN22 to celebrate Firefighter's month, etc. Some of you will be snickering if you took advantage of these in the past. From his perspective I'd be more worried about all the p2p fees in posting up rather than the chance of being stiffed. Compared to the volume of bets I've made, the cost of stiffs probably amounts to 0.000000000001% of that total volume. In 5 years I've only been stiffed a couple of dimes, and even those less lucky haven't been stiffed that much more. Stories of guys being stiffed over 6 figures for correlated parlays come to mind, but they probably still came out far ahead and don't regret getting involved offshore.

The expected cost of a stiff can just be thought of as higher juice. I think this is minimal and more than compensated for by higher limits, convenience of betting online (Vegas mobile betting is still relatively new remember), greater variety of lines, promos, and greater variety of betting options. Unless you've been established in Vegas for a while it must be difficult to get fully trustworthy runners, which if they're not are probably more likely to stiff you than an offshore book. Runners still don't work for free, even if that is still a minimal cost. Books like Stations shouldn't really be factored into the analysis since sharps aren't going to last there very long. So what's left? Will Hill and Cantor? Move to a city for two shitty outs that never have better lines than Pinnacle?

Mathy loves offshore. Would be worth 98.4% less without it.

[mighty maron]

Quality thread.....I enjoyed reading it regardless on whether or not I agree with the opinions.

More threads and discussions like this and less children typing fukk and other "clever" ways to get around swearing and other such non-sense

[Winner_13]

About vegas being "regulated" - offering players the same amount, specifically
...I have heard KRACKMAN saying he cant get down more than a nickle, or his action gets refused at some shops.
..cantor will take a 4 million dollar bet from mayweather, on a regular cfb game, but will they take that much from billy walters?


So how come people are making that comparasion with vegas and offshore?

[SBR_John]

About vegas being "regulated" - offering players the same amount, specifically
...I have heard KRACKMAN saying he cant get down more than a nickle, or his action gets refused at some shops.
..cantor will take a 4 million dollar bet from mayweather, on a regular cfb game, but will they take that much from billy walters?


So how come people are making that comparasion with vegas and offshore?

If your read Mathy closely he gets it, just doesn't like it. Monkey with his Vegas comparisons probably gets it a little better than before the thread started. As far as vegas limits for a sharp(krackman) vs a square(mayweather), it's a good question. The truth is Krack can probably get down whatever he has in his bank account at the market price, but can only bet a nickle on a stale line. Mayweather probably doesn't care what number he gets. Would be my guess.

[raiders72001]

If your read Mathy closely he gets it, just doesn't like it. Monkey with his Vegas comparisons probably gets it a little better than before the thread started. As far as vegas limits for a sharp(krackman) vs a square(mayweather), it's a good question. The truth is Krack can probably get down whatever he has in his bank account at the market price, but can only bet a nickle on a stale line. Mayweather probably doesn't care what number he gets. Would be my guess.

I listened to an interview with Colbert some time ago. He said that Krackman makes some huge bets. It was interesting as he talked about how Cantor profiles players into three different categories. It seems as though they really keep a close eye on players.

[MonkeyF0cker]

That's why guys consider you an idiot. What percentage of gamblers have money posted up at a sportsbook in Vegas and mobile bet compared to those that walk in a casino?

You're the only one that considers me an idiot, but you're the idiot. So, that's a pretty moot point. I love how you try to speak for other people when the only person that I've ever argued with over there is you.

Just because many people don't use accounts doesn't mean they aren't available, genius.