Another A book that is only interested in square action

[k13]

Show me a book who is interested in winning customers

and I'll show you a book filing for bankruptcy...............

I thought that was Pinnacle's model...."winners" welcome.

[allin1]

exchange (or pinnacle to some degree): squares lose their money to sharps (in the long run), and the exchange gets a commission
book: squares lose their money to the book, sharps get limited and/or kicked out

The second model is more profitable, that's why they don't want too much sharp action, just enough so they could figure out the real P. I don't buy into that "risk management" crap. It is just greed. Similar to: "why would the sharps take the money from the table from squares when we can take most of it just by limiting or kicking out the sharps?" But this is for normal markets only. When you have an edge on teasers, it is almost like taking money straight from the books pockets and I could understand why they would put crappy lines or limits.

this is my 2 cents, mathy or MF please correct me if I am wrong

[Trident]

He didn't walk away with money. The book was sunk.

He walked or should say ran with plenty of money, just ask SBRJohn how he is living down in CR.

[mathdotcom]

Obviously books are in the business of making money, and offshore books have the power to do anything they please (including closing shop and stealing everyone's funds). However, most people agree there is a fair way to go about this. We have no problem with books charging a reasonable vig, just like there is no problem with casinos charging an implied vig on all their table games. But after that it's the book's job to balance their risk on each side, which is basically the textbook definition of a linesmaker.

Since when does the linesmaker maintain a posted spread but only accept wagers on one side? If they want to get more action on the other side, historically they'd have to make the price more favorable on that side.

This is the exact equivalent of a casino changing its blackjack rules so that players can no longer double down on a 9 or 10 unless facing a face card. Sure they can do it, but players would rightfully snicker at the casino for being pathetic enough to have to resort to that when they already have such a built-in edge already -- an edge players would kill to have. I would shit myself at the opportunity to run CRIS for a week and keep the proceeds, so the Poor Unfortunate Bookmaker story just makes me laugh.

[No coincidences]

Why would you expect a fair shake from an off-shore outfit, or a realistic grading from a place like SBR? Look at the grades some of these books are getting. It's blatant and laughable. I appreciate SBR for a lot of reasons, but accurate book grades isn't one of them.

I don't get it. This isn't a scrupulous business. You know that. "Fair" rarely has anything to do with it -- especially when you're in a position to take their money instead of giving it to them.

[PAULYPOKER]

Books know what they can get away with especially in the US market,


Don't like it? blame your government............

This is an offshore market,

every US wager they except is illegal under US federal law,

so if they are breaking laws to get your money why would they obey the law to earn it fair and square?

don't like it?

don't give them your money,simple really............

Crying will get ya nowhere..............

[No coincidences]

Books know what they can get away with especially in the US market,


Don't like it? blame your government............

This is an offshore market,

every US wager they except is illegal under US federal law,

so if they are breaking laws to get your money why would they obey the law to earn it fair and square?

don't like it?

don't give them your money,simple really............

Crying will get ya nowhere..............

I guess I'm always caught off guard by how myopic and pie-in-the-sky mathy is given how long he's been around the block. We're not talking about charity outfits here.

[raiders72001]

Why would you expect a fair shake from an off-shore outfit, or a realistic grading from a place like SBR? Look at the grades some of these books are getting. It's blatant and laughable. I appreciate SBR for a lot of reasons, but accurate book grades isn't one of them.

I don't get it. This isn't a scrupulous business. You know that. "Fair" rarely has anything to do with it -- especially when you're in a position to take their money instead of giving it to them.

what site grades books more accurately? What is the criteria for your grading system?

[Fishhead]

When he posts, nobody makes more sense than Mathy.


Anyone disputing or suggesting he do something else always look incredibly foolish.

[mathdotcom]

I am simply snickering at how sad books have become, that they have a licence to print money but still engage in these shady tactics.

I am not asking for anyone to intervene. I actually find it amusing how many books have removed whole wagering screens for me rather than the typical $100 or $1 limits. When I log into SBG for instance, I click on Lobby and then the screen is just blank. Yet they still phone me once a month to re-up.

[No coincidences]

what site grades books more accurately? What is the criteria for your grading system?

I'm not even aware of any other sites that do.

Does that automatically make SBR the true barometer though? Because they grade books, they do so accurately and without bias?

[No coincidences]

I am simply snickering at how sad books have become, that they have a licence to print money but still engage in these shady tactics.

I am not asking for anyone to intervene. I actually find it amusing how many books have removed whole wagering screens for me rather than the typical $100 or $1 limits. When I log into SBG for instance, I click on Lobby and then the screen is just blank. Yet they still phone me once a month to re-up.

I would imagine that the difficulties with the U.S. market would have something to do with all of this. The decrease in volume has probably led to the "complications" you speak of -- or at least contributed to it.

[Fishhead]

I'm not even aware of any other sites that do.

Does that automatically make SBR the true barometer though? Because they grade books, they do so accurately and without bias?

I don't think anyone on this site will disagree(except Walker and his employees) that...........

1. This is far and away best site for offshore book ratings.
2. SBR is biased on more than a couple shops, be it with a low or higher grade than should be warranted.

[PAULYPOKER]

I am simply snickering at how sad books have become, that they have a licence to print money but still engage in these shady tactics.

I am not asking for anyone to intervene. I actually find it amusing how many books have removed whole wagering screens for me rather than the typical $100 or $1 limits. When I log into SBG for instance, I click on Lobby and then the screen is just blank. Yet they still phone me once a month to re-up.

As good as you are at grinding why not move to Vegas?

you should have runners lining up for miles in no time.........

Fishy could set you up with a ground level network....

[Sam Odom]

glad to see you out of retirement , -FH- !

[No coincidences]

I don't think anyone on this site will disagree(except Walker and his employees) that...........

1. This is far and away best site for offshore book ratings.
2. SBR is biased on more than a couple shops, be it with a low or higher grade than should be warranted.

The grades for some of these books is borderline startling.

I'm not saying Bodog and BOL are F outfits by any means, but an A and a B+? Come on.

Agree though that the alternatives are few and far between. What can you say: it's a shady business. Again, we're not talking about the grading and critique of charity outfits here.

[FreeFall]

That's generally true but has nothing to do with Vegas. We are not going to lower a good or even a bad book because they decide not to accept $5000 teasers from sharps. In fact, it would bother me more if they had such weak risk control that they did. Look at the books that have gotten themselves in trouble the past couple of years and I know you know the ones. What was the common thread? As you're mumbling "over booking sharps" I'm nodding my head. It may not be good for you personally but risk control is better for the books, players and industry regardless of whatever the regulation is in vegas, Manila or Macau.

John I don't think MF or Math disagree with over booking sharps. This statement isn't hard for most people to deduce. They are more frusterated with the tactics of how these organizations, and in this case some of the books you sponser, are doing so. Instead of being upfront and saying "we're going to stop taking your action" they are bringing to the light the shady tactics they go about doing so. Another case closer to this thread might be the customizing of users accounts for limiting/restrictions. These shady behaviors then make one start to question the integrity of the organzations doing these actions. Granted I understand why they are doing so, but you start to question how smart these people really are if they can't figure out why these "customized" accounts are doing so well and fix the problem as a whole. Instead they just add another nail to the coffin and hope the bottom line goes up.

They are, or I can't speak for them but I am, reaching out in the hopes of your understanding to help bring more integrity to the industry as a whole to protect their bottom lines. Not a suprise to anyone we all want money and you responses show that too.

[mathdotcom]

As good as you are at grinding why not move to Vegas?

you should have runners lining up for miles in no time.........

Fishy could set you up with a ground level network....

I can still get way more down online in my underwear in 1/100th the time

Lots of EV in Vegas but due to brick and mortar aspect, can't pump them all the time

But I am considering it exclusively to crush Cantor's weak numbers... have never come across a more overrated book in my life.

[mathdotcom]

John I don't think MF or Math disagree with over booking sharps. This statement isn't hard for most people to deduce. They are more frusterated with the tactics of how these organizations, and in this case some of the books you sponser, are doing so. Instead of being upfront and saying "we're going to stop taking your action" they are bringing to the light the shady tactics they go about doing so. Another case closer to this thread might be the customizing of users accounts for limiting/restrictions. These shady behaviors then make one start to question the integrity of the organzations doing these actions. Granted I understand why they are doing so, but you start to question how smart these people really are if they can't figure out why these "customized" accounts are doing so well and fix the problem as a whole. Instead they just add another nail to the coffin and hope the bottom line goes up.

They are, or I can't speak for them but I am, reaching out in the hopes of your understanding to help bring more integrity to the industry as a whole to protect their bottom lines. Not a suprise to anyone we all want money and you responses show that too.

Allowing 15k on square teasers but only 1k on sharp ones does not affect me, I know which is which so in effect they've just limited me to $1000. If anything I am sticking up for whales here since CRIS is denying them even the ability to accidentally stumble upon an EV bet. In terms of 'risk' and 'book solvency', this would actually be a plus for me since the more squares lose the easier it is for me to get paid (in theory). (People always bring up this angle, but I think it is vastly overblown).

[Alluvada143]

The most important factor of grading a book should be the ease of payouts/deposits and CS, This lucidly determines if the book is 100% legit or not ,,,,

Rest of all comes next!!!!

[raiders72001]

I'm not even aware of any other sites that do.

Does that automatically make SBR the true barometer though? Because they grade books, they do so accurately and without bias?

I agree that they grade books with bias, as most do, but SBR is the best source to go as far as book ratings.

[PAULYPOKER]

I can still get way more down online in my underwear in 1/100th the time

Lots of EV in Vegas but due to brick and mortar aspect, can't pump them all the time

But I am considering it exclusively to crush Cantor's weak numbers... have never come across a more overrated book in my life.

Sounds like you want your cake and eat it too,

Yes, you can eventually have this but nobody is going to make & bake the cake for you.................

Pay runners across the US to place bets with locals however the smorgasbord of lines and sports options will be greatly reduced to basically NFL and NCAAF but it is still a market,I would say a large # of locals are still in the stone age keeping up with line moves due to being old school/computer illiterate by choice...........

But then again, it is extremely difficult to build trust with broke dick degenerates running rampant all over the country with your $$$ since this is a natural trait in all degenerates..............

[ronald]

Great to see that two posters who claimed to have retired, Matty and Fishhead, are still posting at SBR.

From a selfish standpoint I am pleased because they are two of the more valuable posters in forum history.

However, I pity both of them since they could not simply walk away when they claimed to have retired. The lure of SBR was too strong.....

This is not something good.

[MonkeyF0cker]

This mirrors a thread not long ago on OGD/Peeps, except here I'm not such a lone voice. The comparison between regulated and unregulated industries is fallacious, as is an attempt to set out Vegas as the end-all for regulated industries. Posters are highly critical of the European model, and the essence of the OGD discussion was that the longer an industry is regulated the less player-friendly it becomes, and that's not a model we should be pursuing. However, if you don't want to go down that line where the operators lobby and pursue greater freedoms to prohibit certain types of bets (as per the 'right to refuse service' that exists in other industries) then a laissez-faire type regulatory environment, as you see in the offshore industry, is what you're left with -- and in that case something like (but not necessarily) SBR, or Casinomeister, is the best advocate for players there is (having previously seen the failures of mediation through forums (RX, MW) and arbitration panels (MW, TOW)).

I don't disagree with those pushing for an ideal where players are able to bet as much +EV as they can find and never be banned, but I don't believe that such an industry is realistic under either the regulated (NV, NJ, UK, AUS) or unregulated (CR, Antigua, Netherlands Antilles) model...

So books like Pinnacle and Cantor should be broke then. Right?

[MonkeyF0cker]

He walked or should say ran with plenty of money, just ask SBRJohn how he is living down in CR.

Well, he was involved with Tradewinds. The Vegas book was broke. I'm sure he was drawing a healthy paycheck every week before it went bust though.

[MonkeyF0cker]

Allowing 15k on square teasers but only 1k on sharp ones does not affect me, I know which is which so in effect they've just limited me to $1000. If anything I am sticking up for whales here since CRIS is denying them even the ability to accidentally stumble upon an EV bet. In terms of 'risk' and 'book solvency', this would actually be a plus for me since the more squares lose the easier it is for me to get paid (in theory). (People always bring up this angle, but I think it is vastly overblown).

This is the point. Having disparate limits on individual subsets of teasers is extremely shady.

[ronald]

Allowing 15k on square teasers but only 1k on sharp ones does not affect me, I know which is which so in effect they've just limited me to $1000. If anything I am sticking up for whales here since CRIS is denying them even the ability to accidentally stumble upon an EV bet. In terms of 'risk' and 'book solvency', this would actually be a plus for me since the more squares lose the easier it is for me to get paid (in theory). (People always bring up this angle, but I think it is vastly overblown).

Attn SBR posters: Matty is not only trying to educate you people about gambling, but his grammar and spelling are impeccable. Note how he uses the correct spelling for "affect" in this case. Many SBR posters struggle with the difference between "affect" and "effect". I'm certain that Matty went to a fine Elementary school. These habits are learned at an early age. Bravo Matty!

[mathdotcom]

When it comes to important gambling matters I will continue to post at SBR but unfortunately I find little else of value in player's talk anymore.

[MonkeyF0cker]

Great to see that two posters who claimed to have retired, Matty and Fishhead, are still posting at SBR.

From a selfish standpoint I am pleased because they are two of the more valuable posters in forum history.

However, I pity both of them since they could not simply walk away when they claimed to have retired. The lure of SBR was too strong.....

This is not something good.

I've said the same about retiring. However, it's hard for me to sit back idly as some of these issues arise especially when so many posters seem to accept these policies.

[indio]

Like I care what you think.

Romney was crushed and that is a fact.

Without the confederate states your party would be irrelevant.

Plus you don't even have 200 to be a pro.

Go fuk yourself.

Such an elegant retort, full of insight and riveting hyperbole.

By the way, I'm not a Republican or a Democrat, I'm not that stupid. But as far as the question of your stupidity? Well, lets just say that is not in question.

Obama won inner city precincts at a 99.9% rate. There was one in Cleveland that had him winning 8,733 to 2. Even dictators don't get that kind of majority. Take away the inner city trash (and its gaudy numbers assisted by fraud), and Obama gets destroyed. When the dollar collapses in the next 4 years, you may not see a Democratic president in the next 20 years afterword. Hopefully, people will choose another alternative besides Republicans to replace the corrupt Democratic party and it's socialist platform engineered by the Zionist banking cartels who run it.

[rumnblack]

Great to see that two posters who claimed to have retired, Matty and Fishhead, are still posting at SBR.

From a selfish standpoint I am pleased because they are two of the more valuable posters in forum history.

However, I pity both of them since they could not simply walk away when they claimed to have retired. The lure of SBR was too strong.....

This is not something good.

JJ. You're a fukkin moron.

[Emily_Haines]

Such an elegant retort, full of insight and riveting hyperbole.

By the way, I'm not a Republican or a Democrat, I'm not that stupid. But as far as the question of your stupidity? Well, lets just say that is not in question.

Obama won inner city precincts at a 99.9% rate. There was one in Cleveland that had him winning 8,733 to 2. Even dictators don't get that kind of majority. Take away the inner city trash (and its gaudy numbers assisted by fraud), and Obama gets destroyed. When the dollar collapses in the next 4 years, you may not see a Democratic president in the next 20 years afterword. Hopefully, people will choose another alternative besides Republicans to replace the corrupt Democratic party and it's socialist platform engineered by the Zionist banking cartels who run it.

How come if your so into the GOP and the 1% you don't even have 200 to be a SBR pro? Yet some broke trash from the inner city can pony up the 200? GOP is a dying party and wont be around much longer.

[indio]

Notice that I said "almost no benefits." Then, you go on to list some fairly obscure wagers. LOL.

How many futures bets do you make per year? I make about five. It's generally not worth the opportunity cost for professionals. If someone is actually betting a "bet that's 50% worse than implied probability" then why the fukk would they care about hold?

Yes. If someone is betting golf or Brazilian soccer, there are benefits to betting offshore. So, you've named 0.002% of the American betting public. Excellent points.

Some futures provides the best opportunities of the year. One of my larger bets just became official when I placed a futures bet at +180 when the bet had around a 65% chance of success. With a 6 game contest between 4 teams (one of those a practical non-factor), and 2 of the 4 being winners, that's an opportunity no professional would ever pass up.

And by the way, my example of a bet being 50% worse than implied probability would be because of the outrageously high hold rates, therefore making your statement on "why the fuk would anyone care about hold" completely ridiculous.

Don't get me wrong, I hate hearing about any book resorting to limiting or one-sided bet offerings in an attempt to reduce risk, but please don't think that Vegas is some sort of ultra-friendly paradise to sharp gamblers, because it's not. It's business models are built on minimizing risk and that's by doing many things that are unfriendly to the sharp gambler, as their model is to fleece sheep, not cater to the professional. That's not to say there are no professionals betting through Vegas shops, but it's usually done in stealth, and that was my main point of contention. If the feds are able to further restrict the flow of money to and from offshore, it's benefits will become close to meaningless, but let's hope that doesn't become the case.

[MonkeyF0cker]

Some futures provides the best opportunities of the year. One of my larger bets just became official when I placed a futures bet at +180 when the bet had around a 65% chance of success. With a 6 game contest between 4 teams (one of those a practical non-factor), and 2 of the 4 being winners, that's an opportunity no professional would ever pass up.

Right. That would fall under the category of obscure. In other words, one of the approximately five futures bets that I place per year. One bet doesn't mean shit to me. If it means anything to anyone, they do absolutely no volume. Not to mention the fact that the limits are typically miniscule in the first place.

And by the way, my example of a bet being 50% worse than implied probability would be because of the outrageously high hold rates, therefore making your statement on "why the fuk would anyone care about hold" completely ridiculous.

I understand what you said. I guess you don't know my posting history. I HIGHLY doubt you're finding any value in that market though. Once again, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT FUTURES. Who cares?

Don't get me wrong, I hate hearing about any book resorting to limiting or one-sided bet offerings in an attempt to reduce risk, but please don't think that Vegas is some sort of ultra-friendly paradise to sharp gamblers, because it's not. It's business models are built on minimizing risk and that's by doing many things that are unfriendly to the sharp gambler, as their model is to fleece sheep, not cater to the professional. That's not to say there are no professionals betting through Vegas shops, but it's usually done in stealth, and that was my main point of contention. If the feds are able to further restrict the flow of money to and from offshore, it's benefits will become close to meaningless, but let's hope that doesn't become the case.

Where did I say that Vegas was "some sort of ultra-friendly paradise to sharp gamblers"? I've never said anything close to that. However, you have to be far more stealthy in offshores than you do at Vegas books these days. That's a fact.

[indio]

How come if your so into the GOP and the 1% you don't even have 200 to be a SBR pro? Yet some broke trash from the inner city can pony up the 200? GOP is a dying party and wont be around much longer.

I don't even know what a SBR pro is. I could care less what it does, or its benefits, so why would me not being one have any bearing on anything?

Who said I'm into the GOP? Find any quote of mine being an advocate of the Republican Party. Since I hate the Democratic party, and despise central planning, that doesn't mean I am automatically a GOP advocate. I'm a believer in freedom, free markets, personal liberty, sound money, and strict adherence to the constitution, so I don't belong to a "party". I also am not a fan of Israel, so the Wolfowitz and Pires and New American Century gang are completely abhorrent to me. Having said that, there is no doubt the worse of two bad parties is the Democratic party, as they have become bent on destroying America with it's tactics of progressivism and socialism run by central bankers and propagated by select media sources which are aimed at gullible suckers who are stupid enough to buy into their tactics. And boy, you're the poster child for a gullible sucker.

You should consider moving to Venezuela, you would like it down their. Their government is just perfect for a loser like you.