Vice Presidential Debate In-Game-Thread

[shari91]

Shari, you don't get it....THAT'S WHAT MAKES HIM A POLITICIAN!!! Every member of the House of Reps would have done the same thing, every politician would have....a politicians goal ON EITHER SIDE of the aisle is re-election...

Just answer me this one simple question. The GM Janesville plant closed, fact. Let's say Ryan DIDN'T ask for the stimulus money for the GM plant and then said plant closes while Obama and Biden are yelling to everyone who will listen how they "saved GM and the auto-industry"...how would Ryan look now? They'd be blaming him for the closing of the plant!!! It's politics 101 Shari. Obvious.

Sure it's obvious if that's where your morals lay. It's also obvious that Biden did exactly what Ryan or any other POLITICIAN would have done after listening to a guy go on and on about how the stimulus package is so awful: He called him out on his bullshit by playing those letters as trump cards. Politics 101

[infamousbacardi]

Sure it's obvious if that's where your morals lay. It's also obvious that Biden did exactly what Ryan or any other POLITICIAN would have done after listening to a guy go on and on about how the stimulus package is so awful: He called him out on his bullshit by playing those letters as trump cards. Politics 101

Completely disagree. Anything that is public record you can go crazy about. Exposing someone's personal correspondence to you is low brow and classless. Apples to oranges, again.

[Sam Odom]

Either Joe/Obama are lying or are incompetent on the Benghazi security issue

[Boner_18]

Anyone? State that refused stimulus? Profane Reality is ignoring the issue cause it's inconvenient for him... Maybe he should run for office!

[King Mayan]

Sure it's obvious if that's where your morals lay. It's also obvious that Biden did exactly what Ryan or any other POLITICIAN would have done after listening to a guy go on and on about how the stimulus package is so awful: He called him out on his bullshit by playing those letters as trump cards. Politics 101

Shari dont you know, that only repubs are allowed to play politics?

[PhillyFlyers]

99% of white racists vote republican. Minorities aren't really ever considered racist, just the way it is. Find me a white person that can be reasonably be construed as racist and votes democrat. It doesn't even have to be with Obama as prez, any time, any Dem.

Wow.

The more you post, the less I understand.

Minorities aren't considered racist? So now you're saying that minorities do not have the capability to be racist?

Furthermore, you suggest that all Dems are non-racist?

Let's see........who gave us racist affirmative action? Was that a Dem initiative or a Republican one?

Also, if you're argument is that 99% of white racists vote Republican (not sure where you're getting your statistics from), then it also can be construed that since 99% of blacks vote Dem, thus voting against the "white" republican party, they also can be considered just as racist.

[Sam Odom]

Either Joe/Obama are lying or are incompetent on the Benghazi security issue

Americans were KILLED , Mr VP


.

[oddtodd]

Wow.

The more you post, the less I understand.

Minorities aren't considered racist? So now you're saying that minorities do not have the capability to be racist?

Furthermore, you suggest that all Dems are non-racist?

Let's see........who gave us racist affirmative action? Was that a Dem initiative or a Republican one?

Also, if you're argument is that 99% of white racists vote Republican (not sure where you're getting your statistics from), then it also can be construed that since 99% of blacks vote Dem, thus voting against the "white" republican party, they also can be considered just as racist.

So your one of those people. Affirmative action is racist and what not. Black people voting for Obama was racist etc. no point in arguing then I guess but anyways, here is the def'n of racism "the prejudice that members of one race are intrinsically superior to members of other races".
I can't say that applies to the motivations of affirmative action. OR why black people voted for Obama. And yes there is no basis for my statistic that 99% of white racists vote for the republicans. What % would you say it is?

[King Mayan]

Sammy you voted for a president that let 9/11 happen... I wouldn't be judging anybody about a terrorist attack..

[shari91]

Completely disagree. Anything that is public record you can go crazy about. Exposing someone's personal correspondence to you is low brow and classless. Apples to oranges, again.

It's public record, bacardi! The letters have been made available for ages. The Associated Press requested them a long time ago. Are we talking about the same thing here? Looks pretty apples to apples to me.

Republican vice presidential candidate Paul Ryan sought more food stamp benefits, stimulus cash and other government support behind the scenes as a member of Congress. An Associated Press review of thousands of pages of documents found he voiced support for the types of government assistance he now rails against as Mitt Romney's running mate.

Letters obtained via public-records requests show Ryan asking for cash under President Barack Obama's economic stimulus program or health care law. Ryan has vocally criticized both on the campaign trail.


Ryan's spokesman says the letters are nothing more than Ryan doing his job by helping constituents navigate the federal bureaucracy.

[Sam Odom]

But Bush... My god Mayan

[muldoon]

Either Joe/Obama are lying or are incompetent on the Benghazi security issue

In the infamous 47% video, Romney promised he'd take a tragedy like this and turn it into a political opportunity. Right from the get go, before the facts unfolded, he was trying to cash in on the deaths of Americans to turn the tide of the election in his favor.

In today’s full video, Mitt Romney actually said that if any Americans get taken hostage, like they did in Iran, or any similar national security crisis, Romney would “work to find a way to take advantage of the opportunity.”

If you ever wanted a glimpse as to how these guys would have reacted on September 11, 2001 - one only needs to see how they've reacted when Al-Quada attacked the embassy in Libya on September 11, 2012.

[PhillyFlyers]

So your one of those people. Affirmative action is racist and what not. Black people voting for Obama was racist etc. no point in arguing then I guess.

Def. of racism "the prejudice that members of one race are intrinsically superior to members of other races". I can't say that applies to what your definition is.

Affirmative Action is based solely on giving specialized benefits of one group over another race, therefore, racist.

I never said black people voting for Obama was racist. I was countering your argument that 99% of white racists voted Republican (Again not sure where you got your stats from, who conducted a poll of racists?)

[King Mayan]

But Bush... My god Mayan

yeah it's pretty sad the hypocrisy you spill.

[Sam Odom]

muldoon , which is it (REAL LIFE ISSUE)

lying or incompetent

[oddtodd]

Affirmative Action is based solely on giving specialized benefits of one group over another race, therefore, racist.

I never said black people voting for Obama was racist. I was countering your argument that 99% of white racists voted Republican (Again not sure where you got your stats from, who conducted a poll of racists?)

Thats not what racism is though. That point of affirmative action was to unwind the inherent racism in American hiring practices.
It was not done because Dems/Repubs believed blacks were inherently superior, but because they were being discriminated against..


Either Way, I dont want to argue about affirmative action.

What would you say is the percentage of self proclaimed, or easily identifiable white racists that vote republican? I know this is a loaded question. Im just wondering

[infamousbacardi]

It's public record, bacardi! The letters have been made available for ages. The Associated Press requested them a long time ago. Are we talking about the same thing here? Looks pretty apples to apples to me.

Not sure that they are referring to the same "letters" Biden was referring to. It is of course possible they are, though. We may not know if indeed they are the same correspondence....

Either way, as I said before, it's still a moot point. Again, every politician in his position must do the same thing or they will be voted out of office. Left or right. That much is clear.

Again, and the question was never answered....how would it look if Ryan didn't ask for any stimulus money to save the GM Janesville plant or even further if he directly refused said money and then the plant closed?? He'd be villianized and the Dems would say HE IS TO BLAME for the closing of the plant, etc etc etc.

[King Mayan]

In the infamous 47% video, Romney promised he'd take a tragedy like this and turn it into a political opportunity. Right from the get go, before the facts unfolded, he was trying to cash in on the deaths of Americans to turn the tide of the election in his favor.



If you ever wanted a glimpse as to how these guys would have reacted on September 11, 2001 - one only needs to see how they've reacted when Al-Quada attacked the embassy in Libya on September 11, 2012.

Can you imagine a dem president during 9/11?? We would never hear the end of it... These clowns should be happy the dems gave them a pass and never talk about foreign policy AGAIN!

[William Walters]

Bombastic blather will fool no one

• By MICHAEL GOODWIN
• Last Updated: 3:48 AM, October 12, 2012
• Posted: 2:50 AM, October 12, 2012

Michael Goodwin

Told ya so. President Obama should have pulled a Joe Girardi and benched Joe Biden long ago. Hillary Rodham Clinton would have knocked last night’s debate out of the park and probably won the election for the Democrats.
Instead, Biden took the stage and made a fool of himself. The experience that supposedly qualifies him to be a heartbeat away is more than offset by the manic behavior he exhibited.
Following his mood swings was like riding a roller coaster. He was over-amped in the beginning and somber and melancholy toward the end. Did the medication kick in, or was it wearing off?

The indelible images were those numerous split screen shots of Biden laughing and shaking his head in condescension while Paul Ryan spoke about serious matters. Iran, taxes, jobs, Medicare — Biden snickered, sneered and giggled like he was privy to a private joke, while Ryan doggedly tried to address the nation’s most urgent problems.
Biden’s conduct was both rude and alarming. Instead of the services of liberal moderator Martha Raddatz, who was too deferential to Biden, we needed EMTs with a straitjacket.
Biden’s antics, including repeated interruptions, often seemed to throw Ryan off balance. But the young Republican challenger kept his cool and, while too often ceding the floor, ended up looking more mature than the incumbent 27 years his senior.
As such, he passed the most important test before him. With Mitt Romney shaking up the race with his brilliant performance in the first presidential debate, Ryan hoped to compound the gains. He may have done that in some quarters, but at the very least, he did no damage.
Centrist voters only aware of the Obama-Biden caricature of Ryan had to be impressed with his respectful and serious demeanor and firm grasp of facts on a wide range of issues, including most of the foreign- policy discussion.
He was especially good on describing the political nature of the Obama troop drawdown in Afghanistan by explaining how commanders wanted the troops there for the fighting season. Biden’s response, that politics were not involved at all is simply not believable to the many commanders who objected.
Surprisingly, Ryan left out of his answer on Syria Romney’s plan to arm the rebels, which is the major distinction from the Obama policy. He also let Biden talk too much during the tax segment and never addressed how economic growth would create jobs and help reduce the deficit.
Those moments, where Biden controlled the time and set the agenda by repeating false charges of Romney’s tax- reform plan that Ryan was forced to rebut, showed Biden at his Washington best. Arrogantly commanding the floor and talking with a certainty that belies his erratic record, he pointed his finger and even lectured Raddatz that “facts matter” when she dared challenge him.
It was pure bombast, as was his phony use of the phrase “my friend” 14 times to refer to Ryan.
To the extent that Biden’s hyper behavior was planned, it was clearly designed to reverse the image of a downcast, low-energy Obama in the first debate. Biden succeeded in that, but his conduct reinforced my concerns about his mental state. He doesn’t seem steady.
He also failed in the same way Obama did — to make a case for why the next four years would be better than the last four. That is the fundamental problem they share, and why they have turned to smear tactics to try to disqualify Romney and Ryan. That they have failed so far leaves them with a problem coming down the campaign stretch.
If they had a record they could defend, they would. And with two more presidential debates to come, Obama still must describe what a second term would look like.
If he can’t, he probably won’t get one.

[PhillyFlyers]

Thats not what racism is though. That point of affirmative action was to unwind the inherent racism in American hiring practices.
It was not done because Dems/Repubs believed blacks were inherently superior, but because they were being discriminated against..

This is bullshit.

The reason they weren't being hired was because they weren't qualified or there were better qualified candidates who were not black.

They couldn't make it on their own so legislation had to be passed to help them.

The end result is now that if a white guy and a black guy go for the same job now, even if the white guy is more qualified, if the company has a need to hire more minorities, because of affirmative action, the black guy is the guy that will get the job even though he doesn't deserve it.

[King Mayan]

Unreal.. William is becoming a copy and paste bot.

Say it ain't so William.

[Sam Odom]

Mittens was right about Benghazi

Obama and company went for over a week , maybe 2 wks , blaming a fuking youtube vid

However... ObamaCo were asked repeatedly for more security in Benghazi prior to the 9/11 anniversary

VP Biden denies it tho

[aceking]

Romney is dumber than Bush .

please do not let him control the nukes .

[PhillyFlyers]

Bombastic blather will fool no one

• By MICHAEL GOODWIN
• Last Updated: 3:48 AM, October 12, 2012
• Posted: 2:50 AM, October 12, 2012

Michael Goodwin

Told ya so. President Obama should have pulled a Joe Girardi and benched Joe Biden long ago. Hillary Rodham Clinton would have knocked last night’s debate out of the park and probably won the election for the Democrats.
Instead, Biden took the stage and made a fool of himself. The experience that supposedly qualifies him to be a heartbeat away is more than offset by the manic behavior he exhibited.
Following his mood swings was like riding a roller coaster. He was over-amped in the beginning and somber and melancholy toward the end. Did the medication kick in, or was it wearing off?

The indelible images were those numerous split screen shots of Biden laughing and shaking his head in condescension while Paul Ryan spoke about serious matters. Iran, taxes, jobs, Medicare — Biden snickered, sneered and giggled like he was privy to a private joke, while Ryan doggedly tried to address the nation’s most urgent problems.
Biden’s conduct was both rude and alarming. Instead of the services of liberal moderator Martha Raddatz, who was too deferential to Biden, we needed EMTs with a straitjacket.
Biden’s antics, including repeated interruptions, often seemed to throw Ryan off balance. But the young Republican challenger kept his cool and, while too often ceding the floor, ended up looking more mature than the incumbent 27 years his senior.
As such, he passed the most important test before him. With Mitt Romney shaking up the race with his brilliant performance in the first presidential debate, Ryan hoped to compound the gains. He may have done that in some quarters, but at the very least, he did no damage.
Centrist voters only aware of the Obama-Biden caricature of Ryan had to be impressed with his respectful and serious demeanor and firm grasp of facts on a wide range of issues, including most of the foreign- policy discussion.
He was especially good on describing the political nature of the Obama troop drawdown in Afghanistan by explaining how commanders wanted the troops there for the fighting season. Biden’s response, that politics were not involved at all is simply not believable to the many commanders who objected.
Surprisingly, Ryan left out of his answer on Syria Romney’s plan to arm the rebels, which is the major distinction from the Obama policy. He also let Biden talk too much during the tax segment and never addressed how economic growth would create jobs and help reduce the deficit.
Those moments, where Biden controlled the time and set the agenda by repeating false charges of Romney’s tax- reform plan that Ryan was forced to rebut, showed Biden at his Washington best. Arrogantly commanding the floor and talking with a certainty that belies his erratic record, he pointed his finger and even lectured Raddatz that “facts matter” when she dared challenge him.
It was pure bombast, as was his phony use of the phrase “my friend” 14 times to refer to Ryan.
To the extent that Biden’s hyper behavior was planned, it was clearly designed to reverse the image of a downcast, low-energy Obama in the first debate. Biden succeeded in that, but his conduct reinforced my concerns about his mental state. He doesn’t seem steady.
He also failed in the same way Obama did — to make a case for why the next four years would be better than the last four. That is the fundamental problem they share, and why they have turned to smear tactics to try to disqualify Romney and Ryan. That they have failed so far leaves them with a problem coming down the campaign stretch.
If they had a record they could defend, they would. And with two more presidential debates to come, Obama still must describe what a second term would look like.
If he can’t, he probably won’t get one.

What a biased article.

Not so surprising given who wrote it.

"Michael Goodwin". Any chance this guy is jewish or part jewish?

We all know that Obama doesn't cower to Israel's demands and that Romney is in Israel's back pocket. Would make complete sense for a jewish writer to come out in support of Romney.

[oddtodd]

This is bullshit.

The reason they weren't being hired was because they weren't qualified or there were better qualified candidates who were not black.

They couldn't make it on their own so legislation had to be passed to help them.

The end result is now that if a white guy and a black guy go for the same job now, even if the white guy is more qualified, if the company has a need to hire more minorities, because of affirmative action, the black guy is the guy that will get the job even though he doesn't deserve it.

Disagree.

Either Way, I dont want to argue about affirmative action.

What would you say is the percentage of self proclaimed, or easily identifiable white racists that vote republican? I know this is a loaded question. Im just wondering

[muldoon]

Not sure that they are referring to the same "letters" Biden was referring to. It is of course possible they are, though. We may not know if indeed they are the same correspondence....

They are

Again, and the question was never answered....how would it look if Ryan didn't ask for any stimulus money to save the GM Janesville plant or even further if he directly refused said money and then the plant closed?? He'd be villianized and the Dems would say HE IS TO BLAME for the closing of the plant, etc etc etc.

Then he shouldn't have gone around trashing the very stimulus that he not only claimed he didn't ask for, but claimed it would do exactly what he's now saying it never did.

He's not alone either.....

Indiana Republican Steve Buyer, who last year called the stimulus bill a “sham,” wrote LaHood -- a former Republican congressman from Illinois -- to seek $80 million for a highway construction project that “is vital to the economic health of North Central Indiana.” At the end of the letter Buyer wrote: “Ray, appreciate your personal attention. Steve.”

[William Walters]

For my boy Kinger.......

[mikemca]

Either Joe/Obama are lying or are incompetent on the Benghazi security issue

Don't see how it was the fault of any 1 party.It was the fault of both parties.



--Rep. Jason Chaffetz (R) - Utah, is leading the Republican charge against Obama for the attack on the embassy in Libya. However, Chaffetz joined fellow House Republicans in voting to cut the budget for embassy security in 2011 and 2012. When asked outright if he had voted to cut security funds for the embassy, Chaffetz answered, “Absolutely. Look, we have to make choices in this country.”

Then they go on television or on campaign stops around the country and play the blame game because they think voters are either too stupid or complacent to know the difference between party spin and the truth--

[mikemca]

Mittens was right about Benghazi

Obama and company went for over a week , maybe 2 wks , blaming a fuking youtube vid

However... ObamaCo were asked repeatedly for more security in Benghazi prior to the 9/11 anniversary

VP Biden denies it tho

Chaffetz joined fellow House Republicans in voting to cut the budget for embassy security in 2011 and 2012. When asked outright if he had voted to cut security funds for the embassy, Chaffetz answered, “Absolutely. Look, we have to make choices in this country.”

[PhillyFlyers]

Disagree.

Either Way, I dont want to argue about affirmative action.

What would you say is the percentage of self proclaimed, or easily identifiable white racists that vote republican? I know this is a loaded question. Im just wondering

It is a loaded question.

The answer is I don't know and neither does anyone else.

Who is going to conduct a poll of people who identify themselves as racist?

[Sam Odom]

Funding diversion is sickening - you telling me the Commander in Chief was unable to dispatch more Marines to Benghazi?

and... why werent those thugs fired upon ?

[oddtodd]

It is a loaded question.

The answer is I don't know and neither does anyone else.

Who is going to conduct a poll of people who identify themselves as racist?

Youre refusing to ask because you know the truth, but don't like it. Just because racist whites vote republican doesn't mean there aren't valid reasons to support them. Everyone knows this truth.

[shari91]

Not sure that they are referring to the same "letters" Biden was referring to. It is of course possible they are, though. We may not know if indeed they are the same correspondence....

Either way, as I said before, it's still a moot point. Again, every politician in his position must do the same thing or they will be voted out of office. Left or right. That much is clear.

Again, and the question was never answered....how would it look if Ryan didn't ask for any stimulus money to save the GM Janesville plant or even further if he directly refused said money and then the plant closed?? He'd be villianized and the Dems would say HE IS TO BLAME for the closing of the plant, etc etc etc.

We do know though that they are the same letters. Here's an article from the Denver Post that details not only what Biden was referencing but all of the other times Ryan asked for help from programs that he has now railed against when campaigning. The AP went through 8,900 documents to uncover all of this so I guess Ryan should be glad they didn't find more than the things they already did.

http://www.denverpost.com/recommended/ci_21756865

And to answer your question: He wouldn't look like a hypocrite and at least then he'd have a leg to stand on now. Not only about the stimulus package but about food stamps, green technology and alternative fuels and Obamacare. All programs that he asked for money for or from. All programs that he now says should be repealed either totally or drastically. He says the stimulus program sucks so badly? Then he should have offered his constituents the same secret solution that him and Romney apparently have to fix the economy now. Oh wait, he said they'll figure it out as they go along. So yeah, use the programs when they serve his purpose and denounce them - and in turn hurt some of the people he was appearing to champion before - when he's trying to ditch his old job and land a new one. Sounds great.

[infamousbacardi]

Then he shouldn't have gone around trashing the very stimulus that he not only claimed he didn't ask for, but claimed it would do exactly what he's now saying it never did.

He's not alone either.....

Obama went to Janesville in '08 and said he'd save that very same GM plant, and he didn't. The stimulus has added trillions to our national debt....

These are different issues and off topic from my original and only point I wanted to stress here. Blaming a politician in DC for acting like a politician in DC is hardly ground breaking...

IF the information Biden was referring to is the same information that is public knowledge then I wouldn't find it nearly as offensive as if he was disclosing personal correspondence between the two of them strictly for political gain....that being said, even the contents of the correspondence are far from damning....anyone looking objectively at the situation would w/o doubt know that any politician would have done the same thing.

This election is clear, either you agree w/ redistributing wealth or you don't...and vote accordingly. Bottom line.

[Shafted69]

many rethugs in congress & rethug governors did what Ryan did in regards to stimulus. request for it in

private & bashed in public. but you wouldn't know if you watched Faux Noos.

and also even now. when presented with facts, rethugs turn a blind eye.