Arbitrage/Surebet is waste of money if you're betting the other side at Pinnacle..

[Slanina]

5D and heritage are good. Deposit at GTbets and take advantage of their 100% bonus. Youwager also has great lines and usually a good first deposit bonus. You could use Bovada or sportsbetting as your fifth book. If you do this for more than a year you will end up depositing at just about every reputable book out there.
Do you know about the freeplay trick to make your freeplay worth more than 50% of cash? If not I can explain. It will significantly increase your profits from freeplay bonuses.
By the way, if you are going to be making deposits maybe use me as a reference so i can get some free referral cash?

I have an account with Bovada back from my Bodog poker days. But I don't have one with GTbets. So I can use you as a referral when the time comes. Are you using any other service/site for line updates?

[ace7550]

Appreciate the info. I'll have to look more into this as I'm intrigued now. And with your experience, assuming you could start over today, what would be your first 5 books to start with? Currently only setup with 5D and Heritage.

5D and heritage are good. Deposit at GTbets and take advantage of their 100% bonus. Youwager also has great lines and usually a good first deposit bonus. You could use Bovada or sportsbetting as your fifth book. If you do this for more than a year you will end up depositing at just about every reputable book out there.
Do you know about the freeplay trick to make your freeplay worth more than 50% of cash? If not I can explain. It will significantly increase your profits from freeplay bonuses.
By the way, if you are going to be making deposits maybe use me as a reference so i can get some free referral cash?

[ace7550]

Is there any point to arbitrage unless your betting like 10k+ on each game?

seems very low profits and are you guys not scared that a bookie might deny ur action leaving with u only one bet at certain times?

It is very rare for them to cancel a bet unless it is a bad line. It is pretty easy to tell the difference between a bad line and an arbitrage opportunity if you have been doing this for more than a month. +160/-154 = good arbitrage oppurtunity. +160/+120 = bad line.
I find that it is important to take full advantage of sign up bonuses and reload bonuses to make this system worth it. My typical wager is between $250 and $1000.
Yes, it's a grind. But if you have a job where you are in front of a computer a lot anyways then it makes sense.

[tsty]

Is there any point to arbitrage unless your betting like 10k+ on each game?

seems very low profits and are you guys not scared that a bookie might deny ur action leaving with u only one bet at certain times?

[Slanina]

Yes SBR odds are definitely delayed sometimes. Sometimes you need to be quick to catch a good opportunity. When I am watching the lines I have all my sites open and logged in so that I can make a bet as quickly as possible. Oftentimes I watch the fast books lines move, make a bet on a slow book, wait a couple minutes, and then hedge. Sometimes you don't have to wait and there is a good hedge just sitting there.
If you can do $500 a book that's a good start. And take advantage of the bonuses the sites offer. If you are going to grind out a profit you might as well take advantage of anything free the books are offering.
Good luck Slanina. Let me know if I can help with anything else.

Appreciate the info. I'll have to look more into this as I'm intrigued now. And with your experience, assuming you could start over today, what would be your first 5 books to start with? Currently only setup with 5D and Heritage.

[ace7550]

Are SBR odds delayed at all? It's not so much having several books, it's capital needed to fund so many at once. $400 per book even get me in the parking lot?

Yes SBR odds are definitely delayed sometimes. Sometimes you need to be quick to catch a good opportunity. When I am watching the lines I have all my sites open and logged in so that I can make a bet as quickly as possible. Oftentimes I watch the fast books lines move, make a bet on a slow book, wait a couple minutes, and then hedge. Sometimes you don't have to wait and there is a good hedge just sitting there.
If you can do $500 a book that's a good start. And take advantage of the bonuses the sites offer. If you are going to grind out a profit you might as well take advantage of anything free the books are offering.
Good luck Slanina. Let me know if I can help with anything else.

[Snoman]

I read stupid things before but this tops all of them. just wasted 3 mins on here

Amen, it's killing me how this is even an argument somehow lmfao

[Maximo]

I read stupid things before but this tops all of them. just wasted 3 mins on here

[joey86bu]

Good strategy I used to do the same thing. Try adding Intertops on your book list as they also move slow.
Ya Sawyers idea is golden tbh.
Go on any arbing site and players will tell you long term where their profits come from and it isn't pinnacle.
Look for 5% value over the pinny line and maybe some other things and you should be good if ya ever wanna do value bets and not arbing.

[Slanina]

btc has made things a lot easier. If you use btc it's very easy to transfer funds to books or out of books. Any good book can take a deposit or issue a withdrawal within a few hours.

Are SBR odds delayed at all? It's not so much having several books, it's capital needed to fund so many at once. $400 per book even get me in the parking lot?

[ace7550]

btc has made things a lot easier. If you use btc it's very easy to transfer funds to books or out of books. Any good book can take a deposit or issue a withdrawal within a few hours.

[Slanina]

Nice one. I'll have to take a more serious look into it. Having 6-7 books is a slight deterrent. Only have 5D and Heritage as of now.

[ace7550]

915
916

4:07p

CWS - Quintana (L)

TOR - Estrada (R)

+115
-135

+120
-130

+115
-125

+131
-141

+122
-132

+115
-125

+119
-128

+121
-131

+124
-134

+120
-130

+120
-130

That's what I'm talking about. The +131 is GT

[ace7550]

If you go to SBR and look at all the books with a better than C rating that accept US players I probably have an account with them. My favorites are youwager, gtbets, heritage/wagerweb (These are the same company), and bookmaker/dsi/justbet (also the same company). Looselines also has good lines.

[Slanina]

It happens every day in MLB for me. Not big differences but enough to hedge and have a decent return. I see +180/-175 or similar fairly often.

What books do you have accounts with?

[ace7550]

Ok my 5 cents here... Hm..

first of all i have been using a similar strategy before i found a better one and it works better than most of the crap posted at this forum

Please enlighten us...

[ace7550]

Is there a particular sport that happens more often with arbitrage?

It happens every day in MLB for me. Not big differences but enough to hedge and have a decent return. I see +180/-175 or similar fairly often.

[Slanina]

Is there a particular sport that happens more often with arbitrage?

[bozeman]

Ok my 5 cents here... Hm..

first of all i have been using a similar strategy before i found a better one and it works better than most of the crap posted at this forum

second of all - all of u guys who say oh it is stupid - have the point and have no point at the same time - u think sawyer is nuts or his idea is nuts, because u take a math approach to sports - crunch number as if it were roulette black and white instead of two live teams - if that was true - sawyers idea would have been non-sense. however, if u look at it from a standpoint of whether pinnies "opinion" on who will actually win is so strong they are nostradamus-like and can tell the future, cause they have lnowledge we dont- this approach is one of the most solid sports bettin systems.

[ace7550]

Any US players do arbitrage? can you recommend the books you use for arbitrage since US players can't use pinnacle?

This thread is awesome. I have been doing this for a while. Didn't realize it was a "thing"

I live in the US and I do arbitrage all day everyday when I am at work. I'm in front of a computer anyways. I make an average of $3,000 a month just hedging bets for small profits. I have been doing this for about 2 years. youwager and gtbets are two of my favorites. Heritage and Looselines are good too. There are lots of nuances in this game, like recognizing when a line is going to be cancelled or not. My rule is that if it's too good to be true it probably is.
A useful technique is to use Pinnacle without actually making a bet on Pinnacle. To do this I align my books on SBR so that all the books I have money in are on the left. Then I put Pinnacle all the way to the right. I watch the lines and when Pinnacle changes I know the other books are soon to change too. I just bet accordingly, wait for the lines to change, and then hedge.

Thanks for making this thread Sawyer. It's fascinating to me. BOL arbitagers! Oh wait...luck has nothing to do with it

[DeathAdder]

Doesn't this leave you extra exposed to the risk of a bet cancel? Which seems to happen a lot more often and is tougher to argue against with live betting.

It does. It happens quite a lot too!

[Optional]

if you can't build an arbing strategy based solely on live betting slowly push your chair away from the table, stand up and exit to your left.

Doesn't this leave you extra exposed to the risk of a bet cancel? Which seems to happen a lot more often and is tougher to argue against with live betting.

[joey86bu]

Well, I said I usually cover my action in soccer since it's very unpredictable sometimes. Always hedge in soccer and tennis as long as you don't have any opinion about event. Sometimes, I like chances for X side to win and I find good odds, I don't hedge. Let it ride baby!

I'm not expecting everybody to understand. It's not complicated but it's not possible to understand it without living it. When you experience it, you realize. As long as you bet value lines/odds, you will be plus! Period. Except tennis, lol. I love tennis! Line movement, Moneyway, beating closing line don't mean a thing in tennis. It's an unique sport for betting but people really hate tennis when Nadal, Raonic, Gasquest lose, lol.

tennis also has diff rules from book to book which can suck.

[joey86bu]

Good discussion in this thread, but there have been a few statements that arbitrage's advantage is that it is risk free and thus allows you to bet more of your bank roll than if you just played one side of a value bet. This assertion ignores the fact that arbing is inherently risky due to rapid line adjustments (before you can place the second bet) and bookmaker cancellations. I had to stop arbing because I was constantly worried one bookmaker would cancel one of my bets (happened once, but I won my other side). I think playing the value side with a controlled portion of your bank roll is actually a safer play.

vnvn +1

[statnerds]

if you can't build an arbing strategy based solely on live betting slowly push your chair away from the table, stand up and exit to your left.

[spargament]

I can't understand why Hutennis is so agressive. He acts like a troll, lol. "Ignore" button is very useful against trolls.

I had an interesting experience with my arbitrage/surebets between other books and pinnacle and wanted to share it. Well, if you don't want to cover your bet at Pinnacle, it's up to you. But over long haul, you may left a fortune on the table. Yes, your overall bankroll will grow no problem but why not maximize your profits? While withdrawing money from other books, you reload your pinnacle account over and over again. I lived this. My this idea is based on my experiences. Not talking about theories here..

Surebet is a great way to win money but if the odds you're betting are "value bets", you will make money anyway.

Regards,

Sawyer

CHRIST because you don't listen and don't understand the conceptual basics surrounding the idea you're heralding as genius.

[joey86bu]

Great posts Sawyer!!!
Obv if you're going to have exposed positions though you're not going to be betting the same amount as you would arbing so net profits would be lower. As a former arber and part of a group chat, the peeps lost pinny and won the soft books as he said.
So why take on risk, when you can guarantee profit? someone asked...........
Because you do get limited eventually and finding gray areas to continue to do it can be worrisome (those who have arbed know what I'm talking about).
But adjusting bets for a proper BR would mean you could bet wayyyyyyyyy longer than just arbing (as you're betting $100 a game instead of trying to pound 3k-ish on each side) (plus softbooks will have ur acct limited in 14 days-ish).
If you want to go the extra mile you can target games where the value is on the underdog or under as the public loves to bet favorites and overs.

[ordaflavius]

If you doing arbitrage, you need to calculated to have profit only on nonpinacle bookyes. If your bet will be win at pinnacle , your profit will be aprox. zero. It's good to have profit only to nonpinacle bookyes, because you will win more at nonpinacle....
Sorry for english

[gartca]

My experience

I gave up reading sports betting forums probably 5 years ago. I happened to read this thread today. I actually do this exact thing. I used to scalp and I always had to reload at Pinny. I felt good scalping opportunities dried up, so for the last 3 years I have been betting football at Sportsinteraction against the pinny line when there was a difference on key numbers. My experience:

3 years ago: +20
2 years ago: +10
Last year: -20
This year: even

Also about +10 doing the same for March Madness. I almost stopped after last year but I am not betting huge amounts and will see how this year turns out.

I like this method because i don't have time anymore for screen watching or keeping a ton of books. Because I am getting good numbers I figure I should at a least break even over the long run with minimal effort .

[u21c3f6]

Well, if you are given the choice between taking US$1 for free or betting US$1 and have a 50% chance of winning US$5, what would you do? ...

Your example is very far removed from reality and not to the point of discussion of this thread. Joe.

[acw]

So why take on risk, when you can guarantee profit?

Well, if you are given the choice between taking US$1 for free or betting US$1 and have a 50% chance of winning US$5, what would you do?

There is a limit to how much you can bet risk free and many over the years will have discovered that dropping the Pinnacle bets is a way of earning more. BetFair is a similar story.
Personally I still managed to beat Pinnacle and BetFair, but I will not deny that it was so little that I decided to leave it for what it was.

[HUY]

One question for Sawyer... i believe you have a pretty good strategy but i was wondering, if you make all those large bets on soft books and keep winning there 100k+ per month, while losing money at pinnacle, how come they haven't limited you yet at soft books?

He's lying.

[OMGRandyJackson]

The thing I dont get is, Sawyer's way still has an element of risk. There is absolutely no guarantee that the side you are betting with pinnacle will ALWAYS lose long term.

So why take on risk, when you can guarantee profit?

[messithekid]

One question for Sawyer... i believe you have a pretty good strategy but i was wondering, if you make all those large bets on soft books and keep winning there 100k+ per month, while losing money at pinnacle, how come they haven't limited you yet at soft books?

[OnkelChris]

One thing I learned from my short time at SBR people will crap on your post even if you're making complete sense.

It is the combination of stupidity and very little sex.