Matchbook update

[Santo]

The figures are correct but I think you're talking at cross-purposes, you from a solo bettor trying to get down perspective and he's looking at total volume traded (which appears to be low), and the inherent risks that implies.

MB Volume will however inevitably be lower because of the moronic commission structure. A fair chunk of the volume traded at BF will be the same people dipping in/out of the market to manufacture prices, arbitrage etc. Those people won't play at MB because a charge on every trade (vs net profit) kills the margin.

[Hareeba!]

The figures are correct but I think you're talking at cross-purposes, you from a solo bettor trying to get down perspective and he's looking at total volume traded (which appears to be low), and the inherent risks that implies.

MB Volume will however inevitably be lower because of the moronic commission structure. A fair chunk of the volume traded at BF will be the same people dipping in/out of the market to manufacture prices, arbitrage etc. Those people won't play at MB because a charge on every trade (vs net profit) kills the margin.

Thanks Santo.

The ability to get the best odds for my stake is all I've been arguing about from the start. It has always been Todd at cross purposes and full of irrelevances.

I couldn't agree more about the commission structure which makes trading out of the question at MB and is obviously (along with USD only) keeping their volumes low.

I'm done with this now. I've proved my point and that Todd was totally incorrect to tell me I was wrong. But as for an apology ... well pigs might fly.

And as for that other jerk QQwhatever who contributed nothing but abuse .....

[QQPALLADIUM]

i asked you about your better prices on mb and what you played yesterday

you posted me boston after the fact

said you had 3 other games with better prices but failed to post those.

have fun today posting...what a life...

[Hareeba!]

i asked you about your better prices on mb and what you played yesterday

you posted me boston after the fact

said you had 3 other games with better prices but failed to post those.

have fun today posting...what a life...

What I backed and how they went utterly irrelevant to the argument.
But if you must know 3 won and 1 lost.
If you'd taken any interest at all in what I was saying rather than just looking to bag me you'd have seen that I mentioned the Boston game first up yesterday just before it began. Of course it was after the fact by the time I responded to your question.
I don't think I'll be doing any further posting today as I'm taking a day off from the punt. Sorry to disappoint you.

[QQPALLADIUM]

oh my what will i do

at least i shut you up for a day...

[todd73nj]

Isn't Hareeba just saying that IF you have money in both places than once in a while you'll get a better price at MB? I don't hear him, Todd, as arguing that MB is better in some absolute sense. His argument is more "no MB doesn't suck" than anything affirmative. Lot of heat and not a lot of light in this exchange.

He is giving an absolute that MB is better pregame for price and volume. And thats not that case at all.

[Mudcat]

Whatever the issues I am still getting a lot of good shit at Matchbook

[todd73nj]

Don't really know why I bother but just for the hell of it I've taken a look at just a couple of games this early in the piece.

Bos @ TB
If you want to back Boston you can get over $3k -135 at MB
At BF the best you can do is 1.67 for $144
If you fancy TB you can get over $1600 at +131
At BF just $40 @ 2.38 then you have to go down to 2.28 for a further $342

I won't bore you with the other game I looked at (CWS @ Det) but it's a similar story

I'd love someone to have a look for themselves at these and post your comments because I know Todd is just going to call me a liar because I'm not posting a screenshot. Of course if I did that he'd claim I'd doctored it.

Funny part I looked at this game today too.

That $3000 you spoke of at -135 Sat there - ALL day long.

While Betfair trades 10s of thousands on the game.

But that being said there were many games listed again today where price and liquidity were better on Betfair - but of course you wont quote those, and a screen shot is too complex for someone who wants to sound like he knows everything.

Bottom line here.. If you wanted to bet $10,000 on that game - You take the 3k at Matchbook - and your other 7k would sit there and never get hit.

If you bet that at Betfair and left it there - it would get taken. The players actually trade there. Its a real exchange.

[todd73nj]

The figures are correct but I think you're talking at cross-purposes, you from a solo bettor trying to get down perspective and he's looking at total volume traded (which appears to be low), and the inherent risks that implies.

MB Volume will however inevitably be lower because of the moronic commission structure. A fair chunk of the volume traded at BF will be the same people dipping in/out of the market to manufacture prices, arbitrage etc. Those people won't play at MB because a charge on every trade (vs net profit) kills the margin.

Santo its not just that - but its like I said in my previous response.

Hareeba is saying MB is better prices and liquidity for all major US sports. But MB is stagnant. The MMer (Which I would still sayis really MB management themselves) puts up a block at a price and thats it. Hareeba picks and arbitrary # that suits his case and uses that.

If you look at ANY baseball game (pregame) at Betfair, it has traded 5k, maybe 10k or even more if its a popular game - But Hareeba only looks and sees that MB has $3000 available and Betfair has $1500 available and assumes that means MB is better. But if BF has already traded 10k it shows people actually pay attention to those markets and match prices when they go up.

Pick out a few games yourself - and watch the "Market Maker" blocks that are posted. They sit there.

Why because MB doesnt trade any volume at all.

[Hareeba!]

oh my what will i do

at least i shut you up for a day...

wrong!
it wasn't you and whatever you did or said would never influence me to do anything different
it was my father-in-law's death this morning which did that

[todd73nj]

wrong!
it wasn't you and whatever you did or said would never influence me to do anything different
it was my father-in-law's death this morning which did that

Its quite clear what goes on now - Betfair MMers are actually there or automated - Like MB use to be two to three years ago.

This makes two things much more apparent to me

1) I now feel even more strongly about MB not having MMers - and the management is just putting up blocks on each game to avoid the look of empty markets. Because once the $2640 NYY block was gone an hour before the game - nothing new from a MMer appeared. Just a few stray $100, $200 orders. Remember back in the day when you could move the MMers price in a soccer game by bidding close to them? That doesnt happen anymore.

2) Betfair markets clearly replenish themselves. In their NYY game that traded about 18k pre game, there was only $1700 posted on one side, $1400 posted on the other. And I can say pretty confidently that the 18k that was traded prior wasnt traded at distant prices.

Id say MB might have a few very small advantages in price (but BF is only a cent or two behind) - but only because they are seriously lacking liquidity and actual trading - because they have such a limited client base now. MB has to give these prices - only way they get any business.

After watching this for a few days now.. I see even a worse future for MB.

[hhsilver]

Is Hareeba ill? It's about 20 hours since his last post --- and Todd's last one has been there for 17 minutes and no sign of hareeba.

[bookie]

I now feel even more strongly about MB not having MMers - and the management is just putting up blocks on each game to avoid the look of empty markets.

Duhhh! There's not an experienced better on the planet who doesn't understand that. It's still the case that once in a while on that platform a bettor bets a bettor and one or both save juice. Or someone wants to get out from under something, and does it on MB.

What has anyone in this thread actually claimed beyond that?


You're the only one who wants to make it into an angels on the head of a pin discussion about which one is really deep down better--which is a non-question.

[Hareeba!]

I'm certainly not claiming this happens all the time but I have just managed to obtain a better price for my stake on a tennis match at MB in excess of what Pinnacle and BF have on offer.

Reports of MB's demise are premature.

[jjgold]

Matchbook is good for small wagers
They do not have the customer base that will ever give them major volume

People do not change when it comes to betting exchanges, there is only one that is a real exchange ..or maybe for a few UK sports 2 (Betdaq) both these places give out their API language so developers can make/create unreal auto trading software and custom applications that really pumps lots of money in and out of markets

[noober]

Right before the start of the game MB has the best odds but if you look for value in openers then go somewhere else

[todd73nj]

Duhhh! There's not an experienced better on the planet who doesn't understand that. It's still the case that once in a while on that platform a bettor bets a bettor and one or both save juice. Or someone wants to get out from under something, and does it on MB.

What has anyone in this thread actually claimed beyond that?


You're the only one who wants to make it into an angels on the head of a pin discussion about which one is really deep down better--which is a non-question.

Had to re-read that bettor bets a bettor line a few times.

So you are agreeing that MB is seeding their own markets?

MB claims (and Hareeba will claim he has inside info from a very reliable source Im sure) that they are not seeding their own markets. And because they are a new management company, Hareeba seems to feel they are a very safe outlet. But if they are seeding their own markets - they certainly are not an exchange up to the standards of Betfair.

[Hareeba!]

Matchbook is good for small wagers

what's small ?

how much does it take for a wager not to be "small" ?

[todd73nj]

I'm certainly not claiming this happens all the time but I have just managed to obtain a better price for my stake on a tennis match at MB in excess of what Pinnacle and BF have on offer.

Reports of MB's demise are premature.

Wow - So a book doing 50 million on a match got outdone by a book that puts up a few hundred? So now not only do they out do BF on major us sports - but on "other"sports too. Its funny that you bet Tennis.. figured that would be another sport that didnt interest you.

Matchbook is good for small wagers
They do not have the customer base that will ever give them major volume

People do not change when it comes to betting exchanges, there is only one that is a real exchange ..or maybe for a few UK sports 2 (Betdaq) both these places give out their API language so developers can make/create unreal auto trading software and custom applications that really pumps lots of money in and out of markets

MB was like that years ago - when they actually had MMers. But now its just the management posting markets and a few players putting up small blocks.

Right before the start of the game MB has the best odds but if you look for value in openers then go somewhere else

See I would disagree with that. I think you can find better value in VERY small amounts from the cheap players that front the MMer(Or MB Management) in an attempt to save some commission. But for liquidiy, safety, large play value, its Betfair. Because you will get your bids and offers hit.

[todd73nj]

Is Hareeba ill? It's about 20 hours since his last post --- and Todd's last one has been there for 17 minutes and no sign of hareeba.

Does he really respond that quickly? Not sure how he could be hunting down all the value at MB if he is here stalking my posts!

[Hareeba!]

MB claims (and Hareeba will claim he has inside info from a very reliable source Im sure) that they are not seeding their own markets. And because they are a new management company, Hareeba seems to feel they are a very safe outlet. But if they are seeding their own markets - they certainly are not an exchange up to the standards of Betfair.

another despicable lie!

show me where I have ever said anything about them seeding the market

you're just a bloody coward ... come in making false accusations about me and NEVER EVER putting up the evidence to back up your lies

and where have I ever said they are up to Betfair's standards save for being (as well proven) the better option for for betting pre game on major US sports.

STOP ATTRIBUTING FALSE STATEMENTS TO ME

[todd73nj]

another despicable lie!

show me where I have ever said anything about them seeding the market

you're just a bloody coward ... come in making false accusations about me and NEVER EVER putting up the evidence to back up your lies

and where have I ever said they are up to Betfair's standards save for being (as well proven) the better option for for betting pre game on major US sports.

STOP ATTRIBUTING FALSE STATEMENTS TO ME

Wow - you do stalk my posts - that was all of 3 minutes and you had that response typed and posted.

You didnt say they seeded their markets - you dispute that every time I say it. But I think all the evidence points to them (cant prove it obviously) seeding their own markets.

And you dont post evidence. Ever. No links, no screen shots, just what you saw or typed.

And again, I think I have clearly shown they are not better for pregame. Prices are about equal. And liquidity is much in fave of Betfair - even though it isnt posted all at one time.

Take the Yankee game today - Early in the day $3240 was available on NYY. At game time $2700. There were a few nibbles in front of that offer on VERY SMALL amounts. But MB doesnt trade.

At game time, Betfair had traded over $20,000 on the NYY game - and still have $1500+ offers on both teams.

Not sure why you cant get this thru your head.

[Hareeba!]

You didnt say they seeded their markets - you dispute that every time I say it. But I think all the evidence points to them (cant prove it obviously) seeding their own markets.

A RANK LIE LIKE SO MANY OTHER FALSE STATEMENTS YOU'VE ATTRIBUTED TO ME

SHOW ME WHERE OR GET F*****D

[chance]

I read in an article that Betfair has decided to become an active participant in it's own markets. They both will be seeding.

[jjgold]

I read in an article that Betfair has decided to become an active participant in it's own markets. They both will be seeding.

That is a good thing but they probably do not have to in most markets

[Thremp]

A RANK LIE LIKE SO MANY OTHER FALSE STATEMENTS YOU'VE ATTRIBUTED TO ME SHOW ME WHERE OR GET F*****D

You welched the last time I tried. You lie about everything. These is little consistency to your tales. Everyone knows you're a fraud. My offer still stands, when you get get 20k and contact j7 to mediate. We'll humiliate you and take your money. (Cause clearly he is on my team, as any impartial non-idiot would be.)

[Ibrakadabra]

I read in an article that Betfair has decided to become an active participant in it's own markets. They both will be seeding.

Where did you read this?

[Hareeba!]

You welched the last time I tried. You lie about everything. These is little consistency to your tales. Everyone knows you're a fraud. My offer still stands, when you get get 20k and contact j7 to mediate. We'll humiliate you and take your money. (Cause clearly he is on my team, as any impartial non-idiot would be.)

Unless you are prepared to provide the evidence to support your claim that I am a liar you have no credibility whatsoever and that makes YOU the liar.

It is clear that your only interest in posting on this forum is to take shots at me. You come into threads discussing valid issues but never offer any comments on them - only your lies and vile accusations about me.

PUT UP OR SHUT UP ONCE AND FOR ALL.

[todd73nj]

I read in an article that Betfair has decided to become an active participant in it's own markets. They both will be seeding.

Can you provide a link?

Would be interesting to read their reasoning. Not sure why they would need this is such liquid markets.

[todd73nj]

A RANK LIE LIKE SO MANY OTHER FALSE STATEMENTS YOU'VE ATTRIBUTED TO ME

SHOW ME WHERE OR GET F*****D

Ummm.. Ok. So what do you say they?

I say they DO seed their markets. From what Ive read from you in the past you have disputed that.

What EXACTLY do you say?

Unless you are prepared to provide the evidence to support your claim that I am a liar you have no credibility whatsoever and that makes YOU the liar.

It is clear that your only interest in posting on this forum is to take shots at me. You come into threads discussing valid issues but never offer any comments on them - only your lies and vile accusations about me.

PUT UP OR SHUT UP ONCE AND FOR ALL.

Blah blah blah.. "...give me evidence but dont ever expect me to give you evidence" - From the Hareeba Bible.



How can I do a screen video of MB??? Not just a screen shot. Id like to show everyone that those markets that are put up never move. Im sure someone knows how to do this. Any help would be appreciated.

[Santo]

Google for screen capture programs.. I use screenflow, but think that is Mac only.

[Hareeba!]

Ummm.. Ok. So what do you say they?

I say they DO seed their markets. From what Ive read from you in the past you have disputed that.

What EXACTLY do you say?

ROFL!

First you say I said they don't seed.

When I call upon you to provide evidence to back taht up you come back with this ???

It doesn't matter what I said except that I didn't say what you said I said.

Prove your accusation or retract it with an apology.

Blah blah blah.. "...give me evidence but dont ever expect me to give you evidence" - From the Hareeba Bible.

It is customary in civilised parts of the globe for the accuser to be required to provide evidence to substantiate his accusations. YOU are the accuser. I am am the accused. YOU have to prove your case. I'm innocent until proven guilty.

Too difficult to comprehend?
Or is this just further evidence of how far from a free country yours has become?


precisely what to you require me to provide evidence of ?

[Hareeba!]

Id like to show everyone that those markets that are put up never move.

If they never move how is it that I almost always get matched for the bids I put up?

[Hareeba!]

Isn't it really amazing how the only games I'm playing aren't worthwhile at Betfair whilst I can get matched for as much as I want at MB
Early this morning just before the start of HOU @ CHC I took a couple of screenshots:
ML Betfair had HOU $155 available at 2.38 (total on the page was only $335 if you were willing to take 2.34; and CHC $262 @ 1.69, if you went down to 1.67 you could take $1571. Total matched at that time was $32,463
MB meanwhile had $8,487 @ +144 and CHC $45,700 (more than BF had matched in total!) @ -145

And on the Runline:
BF ($2,957 total matched) HOU $130 @ 1.67; CHC $210 @ 2.40
MB $17,684 -146; CHC 48,530 +142 (plus $122 +145)

I did NOT just handpick this game for comparison. It just happened to be the only one I was playing today.

[todd73nj]

ROFL!

First you say I said they don't seed.

When I call upon you to provide evidence to back taht up you come back with this ???

It doesn't matter what I said except that I didn't say what you said I said.

Prove your accusation or retract it with an apology.




It is customary in civilised parts of the globe for the accuser to be required to provide evidence to substantiate his accusations. YOU are the accuser. I am am the accused. YOU have to prove your case. I'm innocent until proven guilty.

Too difficult to comprehend?
Or is this just further evidence of how far from a free country yours has become?


precisely what to you require me to provide evidence of ?

1st, I said you dont think they seed. You said you never said that. So which I am supplying proof for? lol That you dont think they seed?

2nd, Going back to the first discussion I EVER had with you - you claimed the Antiguan Regulators were a trustworthy gaming board. I told you that I knew NOTHING about them - and did not want my money in the hands of a group I knew NOTHING about.. Asked you to provide evidence of anything they have ever done. You never provided me with even a link. Just you saying they were more turstworthy than the US govt.

If they never move how is it that I almost always get matched for the bids I put up?

Isn't it really amazing how the only games I'm playing aren't worthwhile at Betfair whilst I can get matched for as much as I want at MB
Early this morning just before the start of HOU @ CHC I took a couple of screenshots:
ML Betfair had HOU $155 available at 2.38 (total on the page was only $335 if you were willing to take 2.34; and CHC $262 @ 1.69, if you went down to 1.67 you could take $1571. Total matched at that time was $32,463
MB meanwhile had $8,487 @ +144 and CHC $45,700 (more than BF had matched in total!) @ -145

And on the Runline:
BF ($2,957 total matched) HOU $130 @ 1.67; CHC $210 @ 2.40
MB $17,684 -146; CHC 48,530 +142 (plus $122 +145)

I did NOT just handpick this game for comparison. It just happened to be the only one I was playing today.

You took a few screen shots? Oh, let me go look at them. Hmm they arent there. Thats odd. I mean, if you said you took a screen shot Id expect it to be there.

And of course the game wasnt handpicked - one game - just happens to be the one you are betting.



Always one game.