All Broker, Agent and Offshore Exchange Issues

[Gaddamnit]

I opened accounts with AC88, Betinasia and bookielink.
currently observing the pros and cons of these services

Oh. That's nice.. Which is best among all of them so far?
At the moment I am only using bookielink

[blakey008]

Hello mate, for my additional resources any ideas and insights based from your experiences would highly appreciated. What do you think of them

Betfootball
ac88
bookielink
betac
bia

also i’m looking for exchange where i can lay bet particularly in horse racing. If you have any suggestion let me know i’m from canada

I opened accounts with AC88, Betinasia and bookielink.
currently observing the pros and cons of these services

[blakey008]

My friend from USA also used them before but I never had a chance to try them for myself.
Are they no longer available now? Who they merged to?

[BOWLSZN]

Anyone know the best exchanges for US punters i used to be able to use Sports Oddesy before they got merged

[Gaddamnit]

I was asking how long before they processed withdrawals? I think you forgot to answer that question

Sorry. Withdrawal takes less than 24 hours

[blakey008]

I just heard them now when i read your thread.
How long for them to process your withdrawal? Do they ask many docs for verification?

I was asking how long before they processed withdrawals? I think you forgot to answer that question

[Gaddamnit]

I just heard them now when i read your thread.
How long for them to process your withdrawal? Do they ask many docs for verification?

They ask regular documents just like other brokers asked from me.
However, their operation is not 24 hrs

[blakey008]

I just heard them now when i read your thread.
How long for them to process your withdrawal? Do they ask many docs for verification?

[Gaddamnit]

So I have decided to give bookielink a try last March and now I have been a customer of them for few months now and never had any problem so far. Good limit and liquidity, fast payout and i like their customer service.
Will update this thread with my experience with them

Is there someone from here are currently using them as well?

[Optional]

Can you broker guys help out with a question I have been sent privately?

I don't know the answer.


"My agent for Molly Bet seems to have gone MIA, do you have an agent I can deal with for funding/withdrawing? If not Molly, something highly comparable?

I'm in the US but use a VPN and can fund with crypto and no problems with using the platform in the past FWIW"

[infotimbo]

No, the liquidity is the same with all agents

this is not correct at all, as I pointed out above. Liquidity can vary by factor x10 or even more.

You can check it yourself by comparing the liquidity before and after logging in. The difference is the personal factor you got.

makes sense now, in reality they (the agents) are no different than Sports books, in that they can knock your bet size down to laughably small amounts.

in regards to the betting exchanges, it's more the other way around. While the liquidity will always remain the same on Betfair, some people get more on Orbit. When they cut it down, then only back to the original Betfair level.

[arie1985]

I know AsianConnect and BetInAsia are the two biggies for Orbit, and was wondering if the liquidity shown (for me, as an AC member) represents them combined or just AC ? If its quite separate and AC agent(s) are solely creating my liquidity, then its me vs. AC. But if the liquidity is combined, am I drawing from BIA liquidity also? And the odds shown in-play, are they originating from BF itself and AC / BIA simply has to accept them when they offer a bet? (ie AC / BIA has to rely on the expertise of the BF bettors who are offering the Lay odds)

No, the liquidity is the same with all agents - you gain access through them to the BetFair platform itself, whether it's AC88 or BIA or even BookieCity (that allows you to lay the horses), you'd have the same liquidity from all of them, it's an access to BetFair itself, the BetFair liquidity is what you get, it just could be represented via them through different numbers, such as different currencies etc.

[jamesrav]

I know AsianConnect and BetInAsia are the two biggies for Orbit, and was wondering if the liquidity shown (for me, as an AC member) represents them combined or just AC ? If its quite separate and AC agent(s) are solely creating my liquidity, then its me vs. AC. But if the liquidity is combined, am I drawing from BIA liquidity also? And the odds shown in-play, are they originating from BF itself and AC / BIA simply has to accept them when they offer a bet? (ie AC / BIA has to rely on the expertise of the BF bettors who are offering the Lay odds)

[jamesrav]

makes sense now, in reality they (the agents) are no different than Sports books, in that they can knock your bet size down to laughably small amounts. But I imagine the liquidity is pooled for all agents (any guesses how many AsianConnect would have?), so if there are 100 and each sets your max at $5, there's still $500 distributed among all the horses racing? I'd hate to have some success and see the BF in-play amounts, they are pitiful for US races.

sounds like you'd be indirectly asked to leave, being allowed to only get BF liquidity and not any Agent liquidity.

[arie1985]

the liquidity is not the same on every Orbit account, yeah. When you are a successful player, you get (more or less) the same as on Betfair. It gets adjusted every now and then.

I was up many times with betting agents and Orbit or BookieCity (not using them that often but sometimes I do) - I had 0 problems withdrawing, but again - I've never hit a "jackpot", I've never turned $100 into $10,000 or $100,000 - I have no idea what happens if you do, I assume you would get tons of issues, KYC, security, skype calls to verify yourself, your mom, your identity, internet connection or any other reason not to pay you, I can only say if you're successful with a reasonable amount of betting - withdrawing shouldn't be an issue.

[infotimbo]

At some point an agent will drop that client totally, and liquidity available will go down?

the liquidity is not the same on every Orbit account, yeah. When you are a successful player, you get (more or less) the same as on Betfair. It gets adjusted every now and then.

[jamesrav]

the In-Play liquidity on BF for US horse races is surprisingly small. For Orbit its always in the hundreds up to a thousand, for BF sometimes as little as $10. For the UK races its different as would be expected. Having now used Orbit for around 10 hrs/day every day, I'm convinced nothing shady is going on day to day. It's definitely not as fast as BF when making an In-Play bet, sometimes there's a lag of 5 seconds before you know if it was made or not. That had me suspicious of course, but in many cases it came back with much higher odds than I punched in, so it seems to look for the highest payout. And it was totally unbiased when it came to allowing those higher odds on win bets or losing bets. My one real scare was due to 2 win bets over 3 days that just 'disappeared' shortly after the race concluded. The chat person pointed out a report that shows voided bets, and turned out they were 'Voided' bets ; BF players seemingly would have had them as well, unless the BF 'off' is indeed different than the Orbit 'off' for a race. (I need to verify that). I finally had a losing bet voided, so I'll chalk it all up to coincidence. Hundreds of bets, a few voided ... it's not a shock in retrospect.

[Optional]

You're basically becoming a "bookie" when you lay the horse, but if you want to do it professionally you must use an automated software, I don't think a human being can do it manually... unless of course you just choose a certain horse to lose because you have some info on it.

When Betfair first launched they used to run training courses on different aspects of using it.

I attended one where they got a successful live horse trader to demonstrate how he did it by hand.

He had each race capped before hand focusing on where he thought the horse/jockey needed to be at points in running. He setup with a bunch of bets pre race and then layed horses that were not getting the desired run until he greened out the market.

Was too stressful and too much pre race work for my taste. But he showed how it can be done without a bot.




@OP, if you can see Betfair I would avoid Orbit personally. Too many reported cases of phantom/fake bets draining user accounts where they just brush the victims off with no real help.

[arie1985]

that's pretty interesting, my intent has never been to offer Lay bets but someone(s) seems to enjoy doing it on Orbit (I could do it on Betfair since I live in Mexico and have an account, but prefer rooting for a horse to win rather than lose).

You're basically becoming a "bookie" when you lay the horse, but if you want to do it professionally you must use an automated software, I don't think a human being can do it manually... unless of course you just choose a certain horse to lose because you have some info on it.

[jamesrav]

that's pretty interesting, my intent has never been to offer Lay bets but someone(s) seems to enjoy doing it on Orbit (I could do it on Betfair since I live in Mexico and have an account, but prefer rooting for a horse to win rather than lose).

Regarding Orbit, I think I understand it now: the player makes a deposit, the AsianConnect & BetInAsia agents themselves all offer up Lay bets (with a little liquidity put up by Betfair itself), and if the player loses his initial deposit the agents are happy and Orbit is happy since they made 3% commission on the wins that occurred. If the player can increase his bankroll, Orbit is still happy, the individual agents are unhappy to some extent but not enough to warrant a ban. If the player is really good, Orbit has made a lot in commissions, the agents all disassociate themselves from the player, and the player essentially has no options for betting and leaves. So the large liquidity I am personally seeing somewhat reflects the fact that agents think I'm a square and are tempting me (and others like me) to bet big . Like someone said: if you can make money on Orbit, enjoy it while it lasts.

[arie1985]

Does anyone know who provides the Lay bets for horse races on Orbit? Is it Orbit themselves or AsianConnect & BetInAsia and other brokers? Or unknown 3rd parties that have that privilege? The players (like me) can only make Back bets, not Lay, so some group(s) seemingly has a monopoly on the (no doubt profitable) Lay part.

BookieCity.com
I used them in the past, they are quite solid. They used to use a product called OddsWar.com but they closed it and now they're using their own product BookieCityExch.com where you can lay bets on horse racings, including in live betting.

It works perfectly fine, however,

could someone with enough skill turn $100 deposit into $10,000 or would you get limited to zero or asked to leave well before that?

I have never personally turned $100 into $10,000 but I won and lost with them many times, sometimes I got $1000 to $3000 or so - I had 0 problems withdrawing that.

I don't think they have any issues and their chat is online around the clock, from 1am CST until 5pm CST, they always respond fast, I really had 0 troubles with them and can vouch for them if you're looking to lay. I agree they don't have many reviews. In fact I was searching on Google for "BookieCity Review" and found only this which is still not 100% convincing:

https://gamblingfreebies.com/2022/10/03/how-to-place-lay-bets-on-horse-races-in-2023/

All other results seem to be referring to something else, the name itself is problematic when you search for reviews on Google.

However what I found is from a year ago so they seem to be in business for quite a while. I can't give you further guarantees other than my own experience. The other option is to ask optional here for his opinion, but I can honestly say I trust them, without getting anything in return for saying it, other than risking it with my own name here.

Regarding API etc. use of bots - no clue, feel free to ask them and update here what they say.

Last thing I forgot to mention, I could use their own product from the US, with a US IP, no need to use a VPN which is a big plus.

[jamesrav]

Orbit liquidity

Does anyone know who provides the Lay bets for horse races on Orbit? Is it Orbit themselves or AsianConnect & BetInAsia and other brokers? Or unknown 3rd parties that have that privilege? The players (like me) can only make Back bets, not Lay, so some group(s) seemingly has a monopoly on the (no doubt profitable) Lay part.

In-Play betting on horse races moves very fast, offered payouts change every millisecond on every horse, so it must be done by computer. Yet Orbit (unlike Betfair , which 'powers' Orbit) forbids players from using bots or AI. Betfair has the motto "We Like Winners", since they like Orbit get a commission on every player win. So does Orbit make money on both ends, by Laying and also the commissions on winning player bets? Or do they rely on other Asia-based betting syndicates to provide the Lay bets? I might ask AsianConnect, but am a bit worried they'll consider me too inquisitive lol

EDIT: I did find some relevant posts elsewhere on the web, the consensus seems to be that AsianConnect and BetInAsia are providing 'their share' of liquidity as compared to Betfair itself (often 5x or 10x the BF liquidity). One guy even said he was an agent, and that each agent can set their risk vs. every client. But does that imply that multiple agents (how many does AsianConnect have?) , each with a low risk towards an individual client, won't really care if they lose a small amount ; success then against many agents wouldn't cause an issue? At some point an agent will drop that client totally, and liquidity available will go down? eventually to zero if you could 'beat' every agent? I'm just thinking hypothetically here ... could someone with enough skill turn $100 deposit into $10,000 or would you get limited to zero or asked to leave well before that?

[SheSMySin]

Was able to withdraw 100k in 3 days so feels fine. They re-asked all the common ID/address verification but that was fine.

I think there is always some risk on a operator that has Curacao/Kahnawake/similar license. But so far Sportmarket has been very good for me. I have not used the Mollybet side.

[MalikHusam]

Which state you in?

[RM95]

Sportmarket is already starting to not pay out winnings and is canceling winning bets, even on BIG markets!!!

[simply]

I am sorry to hear yet another person has been treated this way by Betinasia and OrbitX

The owner of Betinasia is "shocked" that anyone thinks they are not to be trusted. Check this thread;

Warning - OrbitX - Betinasia - Bet-IBC SCAM ALERT

Yes checked already before posting. Their reputation just continue to degrade.

[simply]

You complain about OrbitX via StealinAsia? Do you know water is wet?

They are well known to avoid answering tricky questions and being in bed with OrbitX shafting their customers.

Yeah, I wasn't fully aware of that, but now I paid for that lesson.

[Optional]

I am sorry to hear yet another person has been treated this way by Betinasia and OrbitX

The owner of Betinasia is "shocked" that anyone thinks they are not to be trusted. Check this thread;

Warning - OrbitX - Betinasia - Bet-IBC SCAM ALERT

[Alfie White]

You complain about OrbitX via StealinAsia? Do you know water is wet?

They are well known to avoid answering tricky questions and being in bed with OrbitX shafting their customers.

[simply]

Orbit exchange changed my stake after the end of match and steal money

Hello guys,
This issue happened during and after CL match Leipzig - Real Madrid. Initially, I placed a 1000 eur back bet on Leipzig after they scored early in 2nd minute(had the intention to try to trade for a couple of ticks ). However the goal was disallowed, and the market cleared after var confirmed decision. My bet wasn't fully matched (only 800/1000 was matched). I expected that the bet would be then fully canceled because similar situations happened many times before when the goal was disallowed by var, and bets placed between the goal and var decision were canceled. So I didn't trade out expecting that the initial bet would be canceled.
I waited until the end of the match because it is stated in their rules, that they usually fix this in a couple of minutes, but sometimes they fix that after the end of the game. (happened to me before)
I contacted Betinasia after the end of the match and sent them a screenshot of my bet, asking why is not canceled. (The bet wasn't settled yet)
During live chat conversation, orbit settled the bet, and believe it or not, my partially matched bet (800/1000) wasn't canceled but somehow became fully matched. My account became shorter for 1000 euros.

Then I asked for explanations as to why the bet was not canceled and how became fully matched after the end of the match.
For the first response, I waited 7 days(but I had to request a response almost every day until they finally responded ) and they explained that the goal was disallowed on the field and VAR confirmed that, so no cancelation of the bet in that case. This exact case is not described in orbit rules, so obviously they can decide whatever they want in this situation. Another thing is their live score above markets showed 1-0 and market odds reflected that until var decided to disallow the goal. Markets were livelily traded, and thousands were matched until Var confirmed the decision. Although the goal was disallowed on the field they put a score 1-0, and after the var decision, they suspended the market and returned the score to 0-0. For example, Pinnacle cancels all bets in cases when the wrong score is displayed.

Then I asked again for an explanation about editing my bet after the end of the match and again waited for 7 days. From the entire start of the conversation, they didn't say a single word about that, and that remained until the end. Finally, orbit said that after careful consideration, the bet would not be resettled. hahaha, what a scammers.
So they can edit your bet and depending on the final score you can lose even more than is possible. Also, you will get no explanation.
The other thing is their level of disrespecting players. I waited 14 days and got no word of explanation. I have a feeling that they would never respond if I wasn't so persistent. My explanation is that my money ended up in their pockets, and they haven't any intention to return.
Betinasia expressed their hope that this won't occur once more. (I understand this as Betinasia hopes that Orbit will stop their scamming activities, but there is no guarantee)
I removed all my money from orbit and stopped using their platform, and that is my recommendation to all of you guys, since there are too many complaints here on the forum also.

As I know Curacao gambling commission is useless here, so I guess I can't complain anywhere?
Is there any other betfair clone with different broker, that can be recommended?
Thanks.

[mla]

Thank you for your response and the clarification.

So if i understand properly, Molly is 2 things: 1) a platform and 2) an exchange. Sportmarket is build on top of Molly the platform. And on the Molly platform, we can find bdak, pin88, molly exchange, etc...

Does Molly provide the betfair odds as a separate pool of liquidity then?

[infotimbo]

"molly" is their own betting exchange, where Sportsmarket Pro users (or Mollybet, etc) can bet against each other. There's usually hardly any action at all (yet - maybe it will improve).

"Fair" just grabs the odds available on Betfair, but it's not possible to add bets to the market yourself anymore. This has been replaced by the molly exchange.

Most markets of interest are available, but some are not, and there's not much you can do about it. It is as it is.

[Optional]

[mla]

Questions on SportMarket

I am confused about the SportMarket broker.

I was under the impression that SportMarket would provide all the betfair matches, liquidity and odds either through Fair or through MollyBet. I thought that MollyBeat would be a pass through to Betfair.
However I see some Tennis Double matches on Betfair when logged on Betfair directly that I do not see on SportMarket. I contacted the support and got the following response:

"After consulting with our software provider, we have been informed that we only offer doubles for Grand Slam events."
I would appreciate any help in understanding SportMarket, MollyBet and Betfair and how they work together. I thought that the value prop for SportMarket was to provide access to all what there is on Betfair and more (BetDaq, SportsBooks, etc...) and I thought that they had a direct connection to Betfair (called Fair) or that they were using Mollybet for that.

See image enclosed Thank you for your help

[Gaddamnit]

I did a lit background for myself, from those mentioned above bookielink only offers an exchange
where can lay bets on horse racing named oddslay. As what i was informed it was
a betdaq software. But I am still think if it safe to open an account or if they accept canadian citizen

Can you still lay horses at those ones you mentioned?

I am thinking no broker interfaces allow horse laying these days.