Who's on Netherlands "To Advance"?

[EaglesPhan36]

I don't understand how anyone can classify Brazil as boring. May not be that same wide open style they used to play with, but they still push the ball on the attack quite frequently.

[Sanka]

Pavy you think linesmakers don't make flawed lines? This is not something new where they underestimate one team and give too much credit to another- it happens all the time.

The lines are flawed but you shouldn't take the Dutch just because there is "value". Dutch won't win in regulation time- the odds reflect that with +350. I'm taking the Dutch to win in extra time at +1200. Now that is what you call value.

I'm on the same bet. Don't expect this game to be decided in 90 minutes, and Oranje won't want to take their chances in a penalty shootout.

WillHill has this @+1400 btw.

[lakerboy]

Yeah, Fabiano is better than Van Persie.

Robinho and Kaka will give him every opportunity to put one in the back of the net, lets see how he fairs on the big stage when the pressure is on.

Kara you are overrating Brazil just because you have them as your future for winning it. This game is going to extra time.

Van Persie is overrated Goat. I watch him all the time(as an arsenal fan). He doesnt produce in the big matches and he is at the center of controversy( not a big surprise there). Fabiano needs one chance to score. Van Persie will need 5 and he wont get that many versus Brazil. Watch how many times RVP shoots wide or just barely misses. I hope no one else tries to take a free kick or he might start crying.

[Goat Milk]

LB I agree that Van Persie is overrated and 100% disagree that Fabiano needs 1 chance to score. He needs 1 chance to score in a group stage game or when Kaka or Robinho set him up perfectly. Whenever I see Fabiano trying to create his OWN SHOT he is never on target.

Fabiano will fold tomorrow LB, but I expect Robinho to give the Dutch big problems in open space.

VP is the same player as Torres. Both are overrated in my book and usually lay eggs for the most part but when these guys are on (once in a blue moon), they can score 2 goals in 1H by themselves.

[Kemalettin]

im on brazil in this one...

[Karayilan9]

Yeah, Fabiano is better than Van Persie.

Robinho and Kaka will give him every opportunity to put one in the back of the net, lets see how he fairs on the big stage when the pressure is on.

Kara you are overrating Brazil just because you have them as your future for winning it. This game is going to extra time.

Of corse Fabiano is the better striker, superior in every area of finishing. Van Persie is the more creative player but squanders too many chances and if you watch him for Arsenal know how frustrating he can be in the big games, then takes it out on the rest of the team.

I have futures on Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay and Holland and put money on Holland every game so far, I have no problem taking them.

Fabiano is a clinical finisher I don't know where you get this idea he is a choker from.

Brazil is strong in every part of the game and is very well balanced, Argentina is not as balanced and has concerns in defense but has the best offense, these are just observations.

You have a problem with Brazil and come up with personal views why you think they will fail, like Fabiano will choke or that Kaka or the team isn't as good as is being made out because they don't play "stereotypical" Brazil.

[blackbart]

as much as i would like to see neth win it all finally, i just dont see how they beat brz. brz is bigger stronger faster and have at least as much skill. then there is the clear defensive adv to brz. If neth take the usual strategy vs. brz to lay back and hope for a counter attack, they have very little chance. brz will exploit the shaky neth backline and just pic them apart. the only [slim] hope is to attack and outscore brz, i doubt they have the balls to try this tactic.
best guess is neth sits back and brz controls play with brz finally slipping in one or two to win. for neth to score it would take a super effort.

[TR88]

Netherland have no chance.....I even think they are packing, cause they know they are going home after tomorrow.

[Ced's shadow]

I'm afraid I have to agree with TR88... It's gonna be a good game tho, but it'll go over favoring Brazil

[tbill11]

I think that Netherlands +.5 is the best play tomorrow based on how they've stylistically played so far in this tournament. Brazil is a team that is much more subject to whims, and if any of their key figures have an off day it will throw off the entire stylistic ability of the squad. The Netherlands is like Germany in that, although they are devoid of style, they have a very strong organization of players that are incredibly consistent. They will surprise a lot of people with how close they keep this match tomorrow.

[Goat Milk]

Of corse Fabiano is the better striker, superior in every area of finishing. Van Persie is the more creative player but squanders too many chances and if you watch him for Arsenal know how frustrating he can be in the big games, then takes it out on the rest of the team.

I have futures on Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay and Holland.

Fabiano is a clinical finisher I don't know where you get this idea he is a choker from.

Brazil is strong in every part of the game and is very well balanced, Argentina is not as balanced and has concerns in defense but has the best offense, these are just observations.

You have a problem with Brazil and come up with personal views why you think they will fail, like Fabiano will choke or that Kaka or the team isn't as good as is being made out because they don't play "stereotypical" Brazil.

what are you talking about I am the one that said that Brazil will not beat Portugal because of Kaka's absence. People were telling me that Kaka can be replaced and I was saying that Kaka is irreplacible.

Kaka is one of the best passers/playmakers in the world if not the best. He is not a plug in player in a system. Read my bit above about Van Persie and Fabiano.

I haven't even said Brazil will fail in this game. I have made cases for both teams. Brazil's defense is not going to stop the Dutch attack bro I don't care how anyone looks at it Bastos and Alves are offensive oriented defenders and Robben is going to expose them when they try to move up too far up the pitch.

Robinho is Brazil's main threat here, no one on the Netherlands can handle him in open space.

[wikkidinsane]

Everyone so worried about the Nederlands defense. What has Brazil defended against this world cup? Other than their beating stick Chile, I dont see anything to be proud of. A broken DROGBA, North Korea, a Portugal team that can barely get 5 completed passes together on any given position. HHAHAHAH!

ORANGE ARMY!

[Karayilan9]

what are you talking about I am the one that said that Brazil will not beat Portugal because of Kaka's absence. People were telling me that Kaka can be replaced and I was saying that Kaka is irreplacible.

Kaka is one of the best passers/playmakers in the world if not the best. He is not a plug in player in a system. Read my bit above about Van Persie and Fabiano.

I haven't even said Brazil will fail in this game. I have made cases for both teams. Brazil's offense is not going to stop the Dutch attack bro I don't care how anyone looks at it Bastos and Alves are offensive oriented defenders and Robben is going to expose them when they try to move up too far up the pitch.

Robinho is Brazil's main threat here, no one on the Netherlands can handle him in open space.

The best team on the day will win, most people have decided on who they are backing, good luck to everyone

[pavyracer]

They are totally inferior to Brazil in defense, they kept clean sheets against teams that had no intention of beating them and could barely keep it together at the back against Slovakia. The defense was so easily dragged out of position, Van Bronchorst looked worrying and they gave away 3-4 basic defensive errors which left the Slovaks in one on one opportunities in the box. Its not just the players, its their cohesiveness, organization and discipline that is the problem. I had money on Holland to qualify the the QF's and thought they were fortunate that Slovakia didn't equalize.

Striker wise Brazil also have the edge, Van Persie isn't the greatest finisher and is weak in the air.

The main question in my opinion is how Brazil's replacement carillero does, Elano was very good for the teams transition, getting the ball from defensive areas to the attack and shuttling between the attacking and defensive midfields. Ramirez and Elano are the usual players for this role but Alvez was put in this position in the last game and did do a good job but he will have a tougher task against Holland.

The odds are fair, Brazil also have the psychological edge, the Dutch players have already started with their internal disputes and fights between players. Holland have constantly failed in the WC compared with Brazil and this has been factored in.

Well Brazil didn't keep a clean sheet vs North Korea or Ivory Coast. So where is that Great defense that doesn't leak goals? So you are saying that the Netherlands didn't beat any teams but who did Brazil actually beat? North Korea, Ivory Coast with Drogba unfit to play and Chile who had their two starting central defenders suspended for the game. Brazil beat a depleted Chile team who had missing players through suspensions and Suazo unfit for game and all of a sudden are the superior team vs Netherlands who won all 4 of their games so far.

[Augustus]

Brazil will win in regular time, 2-1.

[Tommy_de1st]

I just found this thread, took me half an hour to get through all this.
My two cents:
Van Persi is a shit player (apart from free kicks). He shouldn't be even on the bench and I won't be surprised if he gets 2 yellows or straight red when he gets frustrated while being tackled.
Goat you still talking bout Brazil/Portugal game. This game didn't matter. Brazilians just wanted it to end and controlled it all the time.

If Holland are to qualify they need to play the best soccer of their lives but it won't happen

[Dark Horse]

If Holland are to qualify they need to play the best soccer of their lives ....

Total misconception. They are 12-0-0 in competitive games under Van Marwijk. And they beat Ghana in a friendly just before the WC by a 4-1 score. You know, another quarter finalist...

Holland just need to play a solid game. This is an average Brazil team. Nothing like the wonder team with Pele, Jairzinho, and Rivelinho. But people almost blindly lift that magic to this team, even though this Brazil has shown very little. If Holland fires on all cylinders, as in the Ghana game, the bookmakers are going to have a very nice day.

[JOHON8]

The odds do not reflect your argument. How come a team that you admit is equal in offense and midfield to Brazil but is slightly inferior to them in defense be +350 to win the game? If they are equal in 2 out of the 3 lines and slightly inferior in the other one even though they kept 2 clean sheets and haven't conceded a goal other than penalty kicks. Basically the odds are flawed but no one can see it. Germany was at worse odds to win the Cup than Netherlands before the tournament started but are only +220 to beat Germany but the Netherlands are at +350 even though where better favored to win the Cup. True odds for this game should have been +130 Brazil, +230 Netherlands but the public has driven Brazil down to -120 in some books and this is why Netherlands at these odds has tremendous value.

You're right that the odds are not respected of the teams ability, they never are, especially in a very publicly bet tournament. But even someone very knowledgeable about Netherlands like Dark Horse is smart enough not to bet against Brazil here. Netherlands have had an easy track to these quarter finals starting from the qualification, to the groups/round of 16. Tomorrow morning they face the best team in the tournament (IMO), and they need Brazil to make mistakes because I don't see how they can break them down or stop their attack.

[Goat Milk]

And Johon,

Your going to tell me that Bastos and Alves are disciplined enough to stay back and contain Robben and not be tempted to play offensively? Come on Brazil haven't faced a real offensive threat like the Dutch this whole tourney. Both teams have had an easy path.

Fukkin North Korea scored on Brazil bro. No one will stop Brazil's attack but it's going to need to be Kaka and Robinho that beat the dutch. Once Bastos starts getting reckless like I know he will Brazil will be in big trouble on the counter.

Anyway who cares Spain is going to win the cup. They are playing just like they did when they DOMINATED the Euro.

[darwin20121]

I don't think Netherlands has much of a chance Brazil just has too much talent. I have Argentina to go all the way for 7-1 odds and had messi at 11-1 but I don't think the later will come to fruition a lot of close but no cigars.

[pavyracer]

You're right that the odds are not respected of the teams ability, they never are, especially in a very publicly bet tournament. But even someone very knowledgeable about Netherlands like Dark Horse is smart enough not to bet against Brazil here. Netherlands have had an easy track to these quarter finals starting from the qualification, to the groups/round of 16. Tomorrow morning they face the best team in the tournament (IMO), and they need Brazil to make mistakes because I don't see how they can break them down or stop their attack.

What game did Brazil play that was tough so far? In fact Brazil had a much easier schedule so far than Netherlands. Netherlands beat some good teams like Denmark, Japan and Slovakia. All these 3 teams had 4 wins between them. Brazil's opponents were only able to beat N.Korea, Honduras and Switzerland. Well these were the worst teams of the tournament and they scored only 2 goals combined with one of them against Brazil. Don't preach us that Netherlands had an easy schedule where in fact it was Brazil that had the easier schedule of the two.

[JOHON8]

And Johon,

Your going to tell me that Bastos and Alves are disciplined enough to stay back and contain Robben and not be tempted to play offensively? Come on Brazil haven't faced a real offensive threat like the Dutch this whole tourney. Both teams have had an easy path.

Fukkin North Korea scored on Brazil bro. No one will stop Brazil's attack but it's going to need to be Kaka and Robinho that beat the dutch. Once Bastos starts getting reckless like I know he will Brazil will be in big trouble on the counter.

Anyway who cares Spain is going to win the cup. They are playing just like they did when they DOMINATED the Euro.

You're not wrong about the the wingers, but I don't think you can just say the wings will be left empty. They got Gilberto and the rest of the defenders running around covering them when they go forward. Missing Elano is pretty big for them, he has more discipline to cover the midfield over Alves. Bottom line, Brazil won't be like Slovakia and let Robben cut in from the right flank to take another one of his obvious shots, at least that's what I hope.

GL with Spain they are getting their sht together.

[DJ RM]

What game did Brazil play that was tough so far? In fact Brazil had a much easier schedule so far than Netherlands. Netherlands beat some good teams like Denmark, Japan and Slovakia. All these 3 teams had 4 wins between them. Brazil's opponents were only able to beat N.Korea, Honduras and Switzerland. Well these were the worst teams of the tournament and they scored only 2 goals combined with one of them against Brazil. Don't preach us that Netherlands had an easy schedule where in fact it was Brazil that had the easier schedule of the two.

Who did Denmark, Japan, and Slovakia beat that was so impressive? Oh yeah, combined they beat Cameroon (x2), Denmark, and a crappy Italy team. Hardly top class themselves.

You really can't judge any of the top teams based on quality of opponents in the World Cup because none of them have played each other yet. (Perhaps you could make a case for Germany beating England, but frankly that team was a bunch of garbage anyway and has nothing to do with this game anyway)

[TurkzZ]

Brazil remind me very much of the inter milan set up and tactics, by Jose, as long as Kaka plays im confident Brazil will progress, the Dutch defence is quite suspect, vs Japan, Cameroon and Slovakia they gave away multiple chances, now with there squad they really should be able to go up a gear or two, but they said the same about England lol, Also Giovanni van Bronckhorst (35 now) lacks the pace to deal with Maicon , and again Maicon will be a crucial player in this fixture. However Brazil did have quite a easy run in, but really haven't been troubled so far.

Factor in Brazil's winning tradition, European teams form away from Europe and the fact this squad and tactical set up has bagged 2 competitions already, This Brazil team really should be making a final.

[Goat Milk]

Brazil has the easiest path to the final Turkzz if they do not make it they should be ashamed of themselves. It doesn't matter anyway. Spain will walk all over the overrated Brazilian defense if they get by the Argees

[TurkzZ]

And Johon,

Your going to tell me that Bastos and Alves are disciplined enough to stay back and contain Robben and not be tempted to play offensively? Come on Brazil haven't faced a real offensive threat like the Dutch this whole tourney. Both teams have had an easy path.

Fukkin North Korea scored on Brazil bro. No one will stop Brazil's attack but it's going to need to be Kaka and Robinho that beat the dutch. Once Bastos starts getting reckless like I know he will Brazil will be in big trouble on the counter.

Anyway who cares Spain is going to win the cup. They are playing just like they did when they DOMINATED the Euro.

Alves wont be tracking Robben, that will be down to Bastos and one of the two holding mids, most probz Melo, they managed to shut out Alexies Sanchez in the last game, however this season i dont think anybody has been able to nullify Robben, Morinho came closest in the final but Robben still managed to find his chances. Brazil will attempted to firstly cut of Wesley.

I think your falling into general stereo types when you question the defensive discipline of Brazil, remember even Robinho defend for Brazil, something you will never see him do at Man City, this Brazil Side is a very well organized defensive unit. In general Bastos doesn't get forward as much as Maicon does.

you really are pushing the Spain scenario lol, but if they continue the football they are play , who can deny them

[pavyracer]

Who did Denmark, Japan, and Slovakia beat that was so impressive? Oh yeah, combined they beat Cameroon (x2), Denmark, and a crappy Italy team. Hardly top class themselves.

You really can't judge any of the top teams based on quality of opponents in the World Cup because none of them have played each other yet. (Perhaps you could make a case for Germany beating England, but frankly that team was a bunch of garbage anyway and has nothing to do with this game anyway)

These are still better teams than the teams Brazil faced so far. If Portugal can keep them scoreless Netherlands can do the same. Brazil has been playing with a different squad each game due to suspensions and injuries whereas Netherlands has been playing with the same squad and now they have Robben with a game under his belt and he will keep the Brazil defense on their heels for the whole game.

[nj6]

VP is the same player as Torres. Both are overrated in my book and usually lay eggs for the most part but when these guys are on (once in a blue moon), they can score 2 goals in 1H by themselves.

The same player as Torres? They aren't even the same type of strikers, please. Also yes clearly Torres usually lays eggs, look at the game winning goal in the euro 2008 final against Germany

Torres is one of my favs, his pace, finishing, and the control he has got sets him apart as a striker. He has had his injury problems this year but whatever, I fukk with that dude's game.

[TurkzZ]

Brazil has the easiest path to the final Turkzz if they do not make it they should be ashamed of themselves. It doesn't matter anyway. Spain will walk all over the overrated Brazilian defense if they get by the Argees

Paraguay first, i wouldn't Rule them out of the tie completely, defensive and have a good attacking unit, not out the realm of possibility that there could be an upset, lol, after all its KO football,

ill also add, what defensive has Spain walked all over? not Chile, not Portugal, not the Swiss, and only 1 goal vs a terrible Honduras

[DrunkHorseplayer]

Don't mess with Brazil; they'll win the Cup again.

[Goat Milk]

Paraguay first, i wouldn't Rule them out of the tie completely, defensive and have a good attacking unit, not out the realm of possibility that there could be an upset, lol, after all its KO football,

ill also add, what defensive has Spain walked all over? not Chile, not Portugal, not the Swiss, and only 1 goal vs a terrible Honduras

Turkzz don't kid yourself man. Spain demolished Portugal and Honduras. They passed the ball amongst themselves like they were playing monkey in the fukking middle. You are going to judge a team's dominance by how many goals they score? That is what you call a stereotype.

By the way I think Brazil's defense is very solid, 2nd best keeper in the cup, they are very fundamnetally solid now under Dunga. I am not underestimating them at all. In fact you are underestimating the Dutch. I hope you now that every soccer square will pound Brazil tomorrow and every game they advance in from here on out. This is going to be a much better game than everyone thinks.

[Fishhead]

Where does this line move from here?????

[TurkzZ]

Turkzz don't kid yourself man. Spain demolished Portugal and Honduras. They passed the ball amongst themselves like they were playing monkey in the fukking middle. You are going to judge a team's dominance by how many goals they score? That is what you call a stereotype.

By the way I think Brazil's defense is very solid, 2nd best keeper in the cup, they are very fundamnetally solid now under Dunga. I am not underestimating them at all. In fact you are underestimating the Dutch. I hope you now that every soccer square will pound Brazil tomorrow and every game they advance in from here on out. This is going to be a much better game than everyone thinks.

time will tell your quite single and narrow minded on the subject, it sounds like you have pounded Spain and think pumping them up in the forum will increase there chances, we all know Spain are a brilliant team, but this is a Brazil Holland thread lol , Spain have a huge chance of winning it, and i also think its between them and Brazil.

Every team has there weaknesses bro, Brazil do, Holland do, so do Spain , we can only provide predictions seeing that none of us have a time machine, so its interesting you can be so sure on a team that has played great nor has a good competition record, for all we know the Euro victory could be a blip like Denmark's win lol. As i said fantastical talented team, just lessen up on the over confidence a bit lol, peace bro

[Goat Milk]

time will tell

I'm just curious. You think Brazil is going to dominate?

[TurkzZ]

I'm just curious. You think Brazil is going to dominate?

ummm no, i think they will play to the counter attack, Holland wont sit back and Brazil are best while countering so im pretty sure they will adopt such a tactic, If Holland can gt Robben into the game and i kind of hope for the good of the game (dispite my brazil wager) that elijer or Kayt plays left wing they will have a good chance, im predicting Kayt will play in order to counter Maicon's forward runs