Who's on Netherlands "To Advance"?

[JogoBonito]

Brazil has a good record against the Dutch, last loss was 1974, since then they haven't lost to them and knocked them out in the big competitions. People should stop focusing on what Van Persie or Sneijder will do, the key players for the Dutch is De Jong and Van Bronchorst, De jong will need to have the game of his life to disrupt the Brazil attacks and counter attacks, if they pour through the defensive midfield like teams have done so far that back line won't hold out for long. Also alot of talk about Robben vs Bastos but nobody talking about Maicon vs Van Bronchorst, Bronchorst is one of the teams weak links and could get exploited. The Dutch defense could cost them the game. They can't hold the back line in shape, there is poor organization and discipline in the ranks, central defenders pull out leaving gaping holes, the wingers have left in limbo a few times. The chances they gave Slovakia were basic mistakes that a team of Brazil's caliber would punish, you can't give 3-4 one on one sitters inside your box at this level. Brazil to qualify without breaking much of a sweat, time for the traditional Oranje meltdown.

Agree 100%. This isnt about Netherlands offense. Their defensive midfield and defense will crumble under the pressure. Every1 is overrating netherlands defense judging what they have done vs average teams and they have done mistakes that other teams didnt take advantage and Brazil wont miss those chances. Im a little concerned bout the match up bastos vs robben, but im sure gilberto silva will help bastos stopping robben. He did a great job last game vs Chile helping Bastos with his side and hell prolly do it again. If Melo can play, hell prolly help out Maicon whenever he decides to go forward and ride his runway. He wont have a problem at all stopping Kuyt , hes the Lebron James at his position, he is that good and he knows it.

Brazil -1.5

[jram68]

would be difficult to watch a match if I was near those hotties!

[swiss88]

I can't wait to watch this game tomorrow, Brazil haven't really been tested so far and I think it's going to be close between these two teams, so I'm considering playing the Netherlands

[thespeculator]

forget 1974, however i was impressed by the netherlands speed and quickness, i thought robben was over hyped, was i wrong ,incredible agility in tight places, i think netherlands will keep it competitive, going to take them at + half 90 minutes at 5dimes

[Wilforth]

This has a Brazil vs Argentina final all over it.

[pavyracer]

The odds for Brazil win in this game are almost the same as when Brazil played Ivory Coast. Well Netherlands were 9 to 1 favorites and Ivory Coast were 25 to 1 favorites before the World Cup started. This will give you an idea that the public is overbuying Brazil and all the value is with Netherlands in this game.

[swiss88]

The odds for Brazil win in this game are almost the same as when Brazil played Ivory Coast. Well Netherlands were 9 to 1 favorites and Ivory Coast were 25 to 1 favorites before the World Cup started. This will give you an idea that the public is overbuying Brazil and all the value is with Netherlands in this game.

exactly

[bbar86]

I want NED to win this one but i was really going to put some money on it i would find it hard to bet against brazil

[lockwoot]

Agree 100%. This isnt about Netherlands offense. Their defensive midfield and defense will crumble under the pressure. Every1 is overrating netherlands defense judging what they have done vs average teams and they have done mistakes that other teams didnt take advantage and Brazil wont miss those chances. Im a little concerned bout the match up bastos vs robben, but im sure gilberto silva will help bastos stopping robben. He did a great job last game vs Chile helping Bastos with his side and hell prolly do it again. If Melo can play, hell prolly help out Maicon whenever he decides to go forward and ride his runway. He wont have a problem at all stopping Kuyt , hes the Lebron James at his position, he is that good and he knows it.

Brazil -1.5

i' m enjoying your comments you are seriously overrating your own team. Ok , so you are saying de melo is the lebron on that position have you melo play lately? Gilberto silva wil just help maicon out defending robben ? that will leave van Bommel open or Nigel de Jong our problem in the defense won't be in the defensive midfield, the problem will be the short passing game of kaka to "your" strikers and how our central defenders will cope with that. The strikers of brazil will have to evade the offside trap which is the weakest point of our central defense

[thebertshow]

I like Brazil to advance for sure

[Karayilan9]

The game Holland plays suits Brazil, if they sit back their defense is unlikely to hold out, if they attack their defense will be exposed on counter attacks. Brazil are happy sitting back and attacking, the defensive back line is one of the best in the game, the defensive midfielders give no room and are very tough to play against. The weakness of the team if Bastos but Dunga will already know this and how to deal with it.

The question is can the Dutch improve their defense to a sufficient level in a few days.

Don't just bet on a team because you "like" or "dislike" the other, I bet on Holland to win all their games so far and reach the Q's but think this is where it ends.

If your going to wager on what ever team don't do it just because you you don't like them or some other personal reason that won't matter on the day. Have some genuine reasons why you think they will qualify.

[Pauulzcappin]

Maicon won't defend Robben, he plays on the right side of the field, that's the key matchup: Robben vs. Bastos

[tachi]

Brazil to Advance to Semi Finals 1.47.


There is no copy of Johan Cruyff who can lead the team to a win over Brazil as happened in 1974.

[D3 Mighty Ducks]

Holland will choke.

[pavyracer]

Holland will choke.

How come a team which is +350 on the ML choke? Explain this one.

[JogoBonito]

i' m enjoying your comments you are seriously overrating your own team. Ok , so you are saying de melo is the lebron on that position have you melo play lately? Gilberto silva wil just help maicon out defending robben ? that will leave van Bommel open or Nigel de Jong our problem in the defense won't be in the defensive midfield, the problem will be the short passing game of kaka to "your" strikers and how our central defenders will cope with that. The strikers of brazil will have to evade the offside trap which is the weakest point of our central defense

I think you missread my whole paragraph. First, I said that Maicon is the Lebron James at his position and hell stop Kuyt. And Gilberto Silva will constantly support Bastos to help him cover Robben like he has been doing since the begining of the WC. And trust me that the KEY to this match for Netherlands lies on their defensive midfielders, not that much on their defensive line.

[lakerboy]

The game Holland plays suits Brazil, if they sit back their defense is unlikely to hold out, if they attack their defense will be exposed on counter attacks. Brazil are happy sitting back and attacking, the defensive back line is one of the best in the game, the defensive midfielders give no room and are very tough to play against. The weakness of the team if Bastos but Dunga will already know this and how to deal with it.

The question is can the Dutch improve their defense to a sufficient level in a few days.

Don't just bet on a team because you "like" or "dislike" the other, I bet on Holland to win all their games so far and reach the Q's but think this is where it ends.

If your going to wager on what ever team don't do it just because you you don't like them or some other personal reason that won't matter on the day. Have some genuine reasons why you think they will qualify.

Great point Kary. Most people cant stand Brazil and want them to lose badly and are taking Holland for that reason.

[Dark Horse]

I think you missread my whole paragraph. First, I said that Maicon is the Lebron James at his position and hell stop Kuyt. And Gilberto Silva will constantly support Bastos to help him cover Robben like he has been doing since the begining of the WC. And trust me that the KEY to this match for Netherlands lies on their defensive midfielders, not that much on their defensive line.

You want Brazil to win and are finding reasons to play on them. Usually, it's not a good idea to talk yourself into a bet. This game is pretty much a tossup. Both teams play with a six man block in defense. As to quality of players, I don't see the advantage to Brazil that the public seems to take for granted. The top players from both teams play with European top teams, and both CL finalists Inter and Bayern are represented in this game. The three best players on the Dutch side (Robben, Sneijder, en Van Bommel) played in that game. In other words, they are having a super season, and it could easily carry over to the WC. I expect an unusual game, because both teams are far more defense minded than in the past. I have no pick, but the value is with Holland.

[SoV]

Robin Van Persie might not start.

[pavyracer]

Robinho wanted to leave Man Citeh. Kaka was on a new team that has a recent history of under preforming in the Champions League. There was only one reason Brazil crashed out to France in WC2006: Zidane. There's no player on Holland anywhere near his standard of play.

Unproven Players of Brazil? I'm sorry but that's a joke right?

These are the projected lineups. I have added the team each player plays for. As you can see both teams have players playing both in Champions League or Premier Leagues of the highest level of soccer. I can't see any team having an advantage in quality of players or experience over the other. Now ask yourself this question. If both teams are equal in the player capabilities and experience and they both play with the same system 4-2-3-1 why would you back up the -110 team over the +350 team?

Netherlands:
Stekelenburg - Ajax
Van der Wiel - Ajax
Heitinga - Everton
Mathijsen - Hamburger
Van Bronckhorst - Feyenoord
Van Bommel - Bayern
De Jong – Manchester City
Robben - Bayern
Sneijder - Inter
Kuyt - Liverpool
Van Persie - Arsenal


Brazil:
Julio Cesar - Inter
Maicon - Inter
Lucio - Inter
Juan - Roma
Bastos - Lyon
Gilberto Silva - Panathinaikos
Josue - Wolfsburg
Alves - Barcelona
Kaka - Real
Robinho - Santos
Luis Fabiano - Seville

[Unicorn7]

thks for posting those rosters Pavy- Whatever happened to Van Nistelroy for Holland he was their best player not long ago

[TR88]

Netherlands should be happy that they are still in the WC....Slovakia missed 3 or 4 shots that were goals, only if they had a decent strikers Netherlands would be out by now. I think after the game tomorrow Netherland will be sorry that they beat Slovakia and faced Brazil only for them to be embarrassed by the score. Brazil wins 4-1.

[pavyracer]

thks for posting those rosters Pavy- Whatever happened to Van Nistelroy for Holland he was their best player not long ago

He retired 2 years ago from the national team. He is 34 years old and past his prime.

[DJ RM]

Why does this conversation keep coming back to the club performances from the past year? It's really not that relevant, is it?

Real Madrid crashed out of the CL fairly early but does that mean that Kaka, Sergio Ramos, Higuain, Casillas, etc etc will all play badly in the World Cup? Yeah, Ronaldo sucked but that's cause he always pouts on the national team when he is persistently fouled and double teamed.

If club performance matters THAT much, where is Ribery now? Eto'o? Face facts, you can't really compare the two at all - different teammates, formations, coaching, pressures. It adds about as much to the conversation as saying "holland always chokes, brazil always wins".

And for what it's worth, I am on Brazil. The Dutch have looked good for the most part but have given up 2 penalties to weak teams and could easily have let Slovakia score at least 2 more. I don't see them being able to contain the potent and varied Brazilian attack....and Brazil's D might be the best it's been in more than 20 years. Brazil 2-0 or 3-1.

Oh and last thing - IMO it's also irrelevant to talk about the Brazil/Portugal game, since Brazil only had colonial pride as motivation and Kaka was suspended. Anyone who has watched them play this cup should be able to see the effect that he has on the midfield - they are a totally different offensive team when Kaka is on the field.

[threats77]

im not going to bet netherlands because theres "value",i just dont see them winning and brazil ML is a good price i think,its like joe johnson vs lebron ..i like the netherlands but again i just dont see them winning unless brazil chokes.whoever said netherlands will choke is high,brazil is the only team here that can choke,but again its going to be hard for that to happen..dont think netherlands will pressure them much

[Chuck74]

Holland 1-0

[Karayilan9]

These are the projected lineups. I have added the team each player plays for. As you can see both teams have players playing both in Champions League or Premier Leagues of the highest level of soccer. I can't see any team having an advantage in quality of players or experience over the other. Now ask yourself this question. If both teams are equal in the player capabilities and experience and they both play with the same system 4-2-3-1 why would you back up the -110 team over the +350 team?

Offensively there is not a huge difference however, defensively you can't compare the two teams. Brazil have genuine world class players, two of which and the keeper play in probably the best defensive club side Inter Milan. The defensive organization, cohesion, discipline and tactics is one of the, if not the best Brazil has had.

[JOHON8]

These are the projected lineups. I have added the team each player plays for. As you can see both teams have players playing both in Champions League or Premier Leagues of the highest level of soccer. I can't see any team having an advantage in quality of players or experience over the other. Now ask yourself this question. If both teams are equal in the player capabilities and experience and they both play with the same system 4-2-3-1 why would you back up the -110 team over the +350 team?

Netherlands:
Stekelenburg - Ajax
Van der Wiel - Ajax
Heitinga - Everton
Mathijsen - Hamburger
Van Bronckhorst - Feyenoord
Van Bommel - Bayern
De Jong – Manchester City
Robben - Bayern
Sneijder - Inter
Kuyt - Liverpool
Van Persie - Arsenal


Brazil:
Julio Cesar - Inter
Maicon - Inter
Lucio - Inter
Juan - Roma
Bastos - Lyon
Gilberto Silva - Panathinaikos
Josue - Wolfsburg
Alves - Barcelona
Kaka - Real
Robinho - Santos
Luis Fabiano - Seville

This argument is fundamentally wrong. I've watched every top league last year and to me you don't make any sense. Let's dissect.


Netherlands:
Stekelenburg - Ajax
-Not a top CL team or "Premier Leagues of the highest level of soccer"
Van der Wiel - Ajax
-Not a top CL team or "Premier Leagues of the highest level of soccer"
Heitinga - Everton
-Not a top CL team or "Premier Leagues of the highest level of soccer"
Mathijsen - Hamburger
-Not a top CL team or "Premier Leagues of the highest level of soccer"
Van Bronckhorst - Feyenoord
-Not a top CL team or "Premier Leagues of the highest level of soccer"
Van Bommel - Bayern
-1
De Jong – Manchester City
-Not CL team
Robben - Bayern
-2
Sneijder - Inter
-3
Kuyt - Liverpool
-Just got knocked out of the CL and mid table EPL with worst season in years
Van Persie - Arsenal
-4 injured most of the year


Brazil:
Julio Cesar - Inter
-CL winner/serie a
Maicon - Inter
-CL winner/serie a
Lucio - Inter
-CL winner/serie a
Juan - Roma
-Almost won Serie a
Bastos - Lyon
-got very far in CL and always a top French team
Gilberto Silva - Panathinaikos
-Top Greek club
Josue - Wolfsburg
-German Champs last year
Alves - Barcelona
-No need to argue.
Kaka - Real
-No need.
Robinho - Santos
-Top Brazil club
Luis Fabiano - Seville
-Top Spanish club

Brazil has more defenders in higher clubs than the entire Dutch squad. I can spend another hour explaining, but as a team Brazil is better... a team of individuals playing as a unit. I see Netherlands as a team of individuals, they depend so much on Robben and Sniejder to bail them out they forget what it takes to stay consistent.

[pavyracer]

The odds do not reflect your argument. How come a team that you admit is equal in offense and midfield to Brazil but is slightly inferior to them in defense be +350 to win the game? If they are equal in 2 out of the 3 lines and slightly inferior in the other one even though they kept 2 clean sheets and haven't conceded a goal other than penalty kicks. Basically the odds are flawed but no one can see it. Germany was at worse odds to win the Cup than Netherlands before the tournament started but are only +220 to beat Germany but the Netherlands are at +350 even though where better favored to win the Cup. True odds for this game should have been +130 Brazil, +230 Netherlands but the public has driven Brazil down to -120 in some books and this is why Netherlands at these odds has tremendous value.

[DJ RM]

I'll say it again, the club form argument is pointless! So Kuyt is not a good player because Liverpool finished 7th? Does that mean Torres is useless? Mascherano?

Argue the skill of the players, fine. But club form really isn't important. Instead of saying the Dutch D plays for somewhat mediocre teams, how about that they really just aren't that good???

Yes, the odds are better value on Holland - that's almost always true for an underdog. But the difference between the two defenses (and keepers) is massive.

[Goat Milk]

Pavy you think linesmakers don't make flawed lines? This is not something new where they underestimate one team and give too much credit to another- it happens all the time.

The lines are flawed but you shouldn't take the Dutch just because there is "value". Dutch won't win in regulation time- the odds reflect that with +350. I'm taking the Dutch to win in extra time at +1200. Now that is what you call value.

[pavyracer]

Pavy you think linesmakers don't make flawed lines? This is not something new where they underestimate one team and give too much credit to another- it happens all the time.

The lines are flawed but you shouldn't take the Dutch just because there is "value". Dutch won't win in regulation time- the odds reflect that with +350. I'm taking the Dutch to win in extra time at +1200. Now that is what you call value.

Well the books will make a fortune on the juice for Brazil ML ranging from -125 to -110 at different books. Then the game will be tied after 90 minutes and they will clean the bank. If you play the odds right you can win and that doesn't necessarily mean going all in on Netherlands ML +350.

[RubberKettle]

These are the projected lineups. I have added the team each player plays for. As you can see both teams have players playing both in Champions League or Premier Leagues of the highest level of soccer. I can't see any team having an advantage in quality of players or experience over the other. Now ask yourself this question. If both teams are equal in the player capabilities and experience and they both play with the same system 4-2-3-1 why would you back up the -110 team over the +350 team?

Thanks for posting those. I agree with your projections.

You are right, both teams maybe equal in quality and experience. I would argue that Brazil have more quality, but whatever. Its not as simple as that. If it were I would back the +350 team till the end of time.

So many other factors need to be accounted for. Form, confidence, composure, technical ability through the side, the sides WC history and expectations etc etc.

One thing that I find very interesting is Brazil is currently -105 (5dimes) to beat Netherlands in 90', but they are -123 to make the Final.

I hope everyone can watch the game and enjoy it. We don't have long to wait now.
GL to all and get'cha ready cause it will be awesome.

[Karayilan9]

The odds do not reflect your argument. How come a team that you admit is equal in offense and midfield to Brazil but is slightly inferior to them in defense be +350 to win the game? If they are equal in 2 out of the 3 lines and slightly inferior in the other one even though they kept 2 clean sheets and haven't conceded a goal other than penalty kicks. Basically the odds are flawed but no one can see it. Germany was at worse odds to win the Cup than Netherlands before the tournament started but are only +220 to beat Germany but the Netherlands are at +350 even though where better favored to win the Cup. True odds for this game should have been +130 Brazil, +230 Netherlands but the public has driven Brazil down to -120 in some books and this is why Netherlands at these odds has tremendous value.

They are totally inferior to Brazil in defense, they kept clean sheets against teams that had no intention of beating them and could barely keep it together at the back against Slovakia. The defense was so easily dragged out of position, Van Bronchorst looked worrying and they gave away 3-4 basic defensive errors which left the Slovaks in one on one opportunities in the box. Its not just the players, its their cohesiveness, organization and discipline that is the problem. I had money on Holland to qualify the the QF's and thought they were fortunate that Slovakia didn't equalize.

Striker wise Brazil also have the edge, Van Persie isn't the greatest finisher and is weak in the air.

The main question in my opinion is how Brazil's replacement carillero does, Elano was very good for the teams transition, getting the ball from defensive areas to the attack and shuttling between the attacking and defensive midfields. Ramirez and Elano are the usual players for this role but Alvez was put in this position in the last game and did do a good job but he will have a tougher task against Holland.

The odds are fair, Brazil also have the psychological edge, the Dutch players have already started with their internal disputes and fights between players. Holland have constantly failed in the WC compared with Brazil and this has been factored in.

[Goat Milk]

Striker wise Brazil also have the edge, Van Persie isn't the greatest finisher and is weak in the air.

Yeah, Fabiano is better than Van Persie.

Robinho and Kaka will give him every opportunity to put one in the back of the net, lets see how he fairs on the big stage when the pressure is on.

Kara you are overrating Brazil just because you have them as your future for winning it. This game is going to extra time.