So fast food workers want $15 an hour?

[OTL]

I don't own a fast food restaurant.
So I don't give 2 shits how much they make an hour.
I don't understand the hate...

You would care if you realized that menu prices would be hiked considerably to compensate for the increased wages. They aren't going let a wage increase cut into their profit margins, they will pass it onto the end customer.

[brooks85]

you'd also care if you owned any stock

[itchypickle]

Exactly. It's people and companies who want to keep kicking a man when he's down. Or they are against unions,
because they are jealous that someone can make demands on a company for their own good. Or they like
cheap shit.

There's huge profits in the food industry, especially fast food. Been to a fast food restaurant? Notice how high
the prices are? That's before people protesting a higher wage. Food is high because beef prices are way up.
Companies have to raise prices to compensate. The same will be true when wages go up.

http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/the-exchange/fast-food-chains-aren-t-rich-protesters-think-192549497.html

Just one of many comparative sources. Setting the margins aside though...the point still remains of how wages are determined in ANY business. Low wage/low skill wages are the best example. It's one thing if we are talking about companies competing for workers in fields where you can stand out and leverage yourself in interviews based on performance or in demand skills....fast food workers are still all on the same playing field...just a body to perform a remedial task that can either be replaced by end of business day by one of hundreds of other applications or the task given to another worker for a slight increase in pay for work or simply done away with by a machine. Companies shouldn't be guilted into paying a 23 year old high school dropout with 3 kids a requested salary just because.

[jtoler]

Not comparing Mickey D's to a sweat shop, but its the same mentality that doesn't mind an Indonesian Nike sweatshop worker making 20 cents an hour/12 hours a day. Lower wages, lower prices on goods bought. It's the American way.

[itchypickle]

This is what the protests will end up at....

[Kermit]

^^^There is a convenience store/food chain called "Sheetz" here in the East Coast that has been doing this for many years now. They even have some stores that have these automated touch screens at their gas pumps to order food while you get gas.

[itchypickle]

^^^There is a convenience store/food chain called "Sheetz" here in the East Coast that has been doing this for many years now. They even have some stores that have these automated touch screens at their gas pumps to order food while you get gas.

Can't blame them. There is a reason so many companies are starting to manufacture these units and a ton of money investing in them...test markets all over implementing them to perfect the application. Only a matter of time.

[itchypickle]

@Kermit-

Even more task oriented food service jobs are going to need to evolve or be left behind as well. With the 'foodie' craze thats been going on, demand for chefs on the rise, here comes the tech fix for that problem to compete as well:

http://www.scmp.com/tech/innovation/article/1808963/worlds-first-robot-kitchen-cooks-visitors-ces-asia-shanghai

[itchypickle]

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-los-angeles-minimum-wage-unions-20150526-story.html

Point made. Game, set, match. Unions wanted $15/hr wages in L.A. well they got it. Now they are having their political cronies amend the law to ensure that union ran shops are exempt from the new wages law.

Using the workers for their own pawns.

[daneblazer]

http://money.cnn.com/2014/05/22/technology/innovation/fast-food-robot/

Well that back fired

[muldoon]

http://money.cnn.com/2014/05/22/tech...st-food-robot/

Well that back fired

If people were paid $3/hr robots would still replace them.

Of course the article finds the correlation, but there have been fast food robots for 36+ months.

Fast food is just one frontier.

[Mr KLC]

Seattle CEO who set firm's minimum wage to $70G says he has hit hard times

The Seattle CEO who reaped a publicity bonanza when he boosted the salaries of his employees to a minimum of $70,000 a year says he has fallen on hard times.

Dan Price, 31, tells the New York Times that things have gotten so bad he’s been forced to rent out his house.

Only three months ago Price was generating headlines—and accusations of being a socialist -- when he announced the new salary minimum for all 120 employees at his Gravity Payments credt card processing firm. Price said he was doing it, and slashing his $1 million pay package to pay for it, to address the wealth gap.

“I’m working as hard as I ever worked to make it work,” he told the Times in a video that shows him sitting on a plastic bucket in the garage of his house. “I’m renting out my house right now to try and make ends meet myself.”

The Times article said Price’s decision ended up costing him a few customers and two of his “most valued” employees, who quit after newer employees ended up with bigger salary hikes than older ones.

“He gave raises to people who have the least skills and are the least equipped to do the job, and the ones who were taking on the most didn’t get much of a bump,” Gravity financial manager Maisey McMaster, 26, told the paper.

She said when she talked to Price about it, he treated her as if she was being selfish and only thinking about herself.

“That really hurt me,” she said. “I was talking about not only me, but about everyone in my position.”

Approaching burnout, she quit.

Grant Moran, 29, also quit, saying the new pay-scale was disconcerting

“Now the people who were just clocking in and out were making the same as me,” he told the paper. “It shackles high performers to less motivated team members.”

Price said McMaster and Moran, or even critic Rush Limbaugh, the talk show host, were not wrong.

“There’s no perfect way to do this and no way to handle complex workplace issues that doesn’t have any downsides or trade-offs,” he said.

The Times said customers who left were dismayed at what Price did, viewing it as a political statement. Others left fearful Gravity would soon hike fees to pay for salary increases.

Brian Canlis, co-owner of a family restaurant, already worried about how to deal with Seattle’s new minimum wage, told Price the pay raise at Gravity “makes it harder for the rest of us.”

“It pains me to hear Brian Canlis say that,” Price said. “The last think I would ever want to do is make a client feel uncomfortable.”

The Times said Price has dozens of new clients inspired by his move but those accounts won’t start generating profits for at least another year.

Making matters worse for Price is a lawsuit his older brother filed two weeks after the pay hike announcement.

Lucas Price, who owns 30 percent of the company, accuses his brother of taking millions of dollars out of the company while denying him the benefits of his minority ownership.

The lawsuit has forced Gravity to pay mounting legal fees at a time when the new salary scale is being eaten up by profits.

“We don’t have a margin of error to pay those legal fees,” Dan Price said.

[Big Bear]

where the hell do fast food workers make $15 an hour?


where i live ... they wanna pay $8 an hour for office jobs.

[Mr KLC]

Seattle CEO who set firm's minimum wage to $70G says he has hit hard times

The Seattle CEO who reaped a publicity bonanza when he boosted the salaries of his employees to a minimum of $70,000 a year says he has fallen on hard times.

Dan Price, 31, tells the New York Times that things have gotten so bad he’s been forced to rent out his house.

Only three months ago Price was generating headlines—and accusations of being a socialist -- when he announced the new salary minimum for all 120 employees at his Gravity Payments credt card processing firm. Price said he was doing it, and slashing his $1 million pay package to pay for it, to address the wealth gap.

“I’m working as hard as I ever worked to make it work,” he told the Times in a video that shows him sitting on a plastic bucket in the garage of his house. “I’m renting out my house right now to try and make ends meet myself.”

The Times article said Price’s decision ended up costing him a few customers and two of his “most valued” employees, who quit after newer employees ended up with bigger salary hikes than older ones.

“He gave raises to people who have the least skills and are the least equipped to do the job, and the ones who were taking on the most didn’t get much of a bump,” Gravity financial manager Maisey McMaster, 26, told the paper.

She said when she talked to Price about it, he treated her as if she was being selfish and only thinking about herself.

“That really hurt me,” she said. “I was talking about not only me, but about everyone in my position.”

Approaching burnout, she quit.

Grant Moran, 29, also quit, saying the new pay-scale was disconcerting

“Now the people who were just clocking in and out were making the same as me,” he told the paper. “It shackles high performers to less motivated team members.”

Price said McMaster and Moran, or even critic Rush Limbaugh, the talk show host, were not wrong.

“There’s no perfect way to do this and no way to handle complex workplace issues that doesn’t have any downsides or trade-offs,” he said.

The Times said customers who left were dismayed at what Price did, viewing it as a political statement. Others left fearful Gravity would soon hike fees to pay for salary increases.

Brian Canlis, co-owner of a family restaurant, already worried about how to deal with Seattle’s new minimum wage, told Price the pay raise at Gravity “makes it harder for the rest of us.”

“It pains me to hear Brian Canlis say that,” Price said. “The last think I would ever want to do is make a client feel uncomfortable.”

The Times said Price has dozens of new clients inspired by his move but those accounts won’t start generating profits for at least another year.

Making matters worse for Price is a lawsuit his older brother filed two weeks after the pay hike announcement.

Lucas Price, who owns 30 percent of the company, accuses his brother of taking millions of dollars out of the company while denying him the benefits of his minority ownership.

The lawsuit has forced Gravity to pay mounting legal fees at a time when the new salary scale is being eaten up by profits.

“We don’t have a margin of error to pay those legal fees,” Dan Price said.

Watch the video from :50 to about 2:00. Sounds familiar?

[brooks85]

If people were paid $3/hr robots would still replace them.

Of course the article finds the correlation, but there have been fast food robots for 36+ months.

Fast food is just one frontier.

wrong

again, you don't know what you're talking about.

[Big Bear]

This is what the protests will end up at....

LOL where is that ?

Dubai?

[Big Bear]

what company has minimum salary of 70K

i need to apply there

[DiggityDaggityDo]

where the hell do fast food workers make $15 an hour?


where i live ... they wanna pay $8 an hour for office jobs.

In California they will be making $15 an hour by 2020.

Well, in Los Angeles anyways. Not sure about the rest of California. I have not looked it up, its just something I saw on the news the other day.

[jtoler]

By 2020 the economy will have crashed so won't happen anyway.

[Big Bear]

By 2020 the economy will have crashed so won't happen anyway.

why u say that?

i thought we were on the upswing?

since i am almost broke .... should i be hoping that the economy crashes so that more folks will be on my level?

[jtoler]

why u say that?

i thought we were on the upswing?

since i am almost broke .... should i be hoping that the economy crashes so that more folks will be on my level?

You would drop more levels, the broke get broker. Ponzi schemes don't really have upswings just tricks, lies, and increasing supply to make it look as such. Moving towards one currency one day, I think it'll crash before then.

[Big Bear]

You would drop more levels, the broke get broker. Ponzi schemes don't really have upswings just tricks, lies, and increasing supply to make it look as such. Moving towards one currency one day, I think it'll crash before then.

so the American goverment is a ponzi scheme?

[jtoler]

so the American goverment is a ponzi scheme?

Yes as with almost all others.

[KingJD31]

And then the small business owner is the one who gets fuked they cant afford a robot for factory work. So they downsize the company make less profits and the economy gets hurt

If people were paid $3/hr robots would still replace them.

Of course the article finds the correlation, but there have been fast food robots for 36+ months.

Fast food is just one frontier.

[capone1899]

These lazy fcks in Seattle got a pay increase and now them are asking for less hours because the pay increase put them over the limit to get government benefits.

So these stupid fcks asked for a ray raise thinking it would solve everything and didn't consider all the money they were already getting from the government. Jesus, these people are dumb

[brooks85]

And then the small business owner is the one who gets fuked they cant afford a robot for factory work. So they downsize the company make less profits and the economy gets hurt

muldoon usually talks without any real economic sense; calling khicks lol..

Basic economics; if labor was $3/hr there is no way in hell you would have costly robots. He doesn't realize robots actually still have a cost per hour basis to run them, and it cost a lot to pay someone to control them and even more to service them(per hour.) It is a foreign concept to muldoon but companies like to make money and if labor was $3/hr they wouldn't even entertain the idea of investing into robots.


So, as usual, he is wrong. Artificially driving up minimum wage will in fact cause companies to invest in robots more heavily. They are an inverse of each other regardless of what muldoon thinks, math says otherwise.

[DiggityDaggityDo]

These lazy fcks in Seattle got a pay increase and now them are asking for less hours because the pay increase put them over the limit to get government benefits.

So these stupid fcks asked for a ray raise thinking it would solve everything and didn't consider all the money they were already getting from the government. Jesus, these people are dumb

[teaserpleaser]

These lazy fcks in Seattle got a pay increase and now them are asking for less hours because the pay increase put them over the limit to get government benefits.

So these stupid fcks asked for a ray raise thinking it would solve everything and didn't consider all the money they were already getting from the government. Jesus, these people are dumb

yeah I was reading about that first of all I didn't know if you were full time employed you even had eligibility for government handouts... explain that one to me you either A need a better job or B have less kids or no kids wtf is this government hand out shit for people working 40 hours a week.

[Triple_D_Bet]

muldoon usually talks without any real economic sense; calling khicks lol..

Basic economics; if labor was $3/hr there is no way in hell you would have costly robots. He doesn't realize robots actually still have a cost per hour basis to run them, and it cost a lot to pay someone to control them and even more to service them(per hour.) It is a foreign concept to muldoon but companies like to make money and if labor was $3/hr they wouldn't even entertain the idea of investing into robots.


So, as usual, he is wrong. Artificially driving up minimum wage will in fact cause companies to invest in robots more heavily. They are an inverse of each other regardless of what muldoon thinks, math says otherwise.

For starters, muldoon is one of the most consistently accurate guys on here...haven't seen him fly off the handle and post anything inaccurate or unsubstantiated just because he feels one way or another on a subject. Secondly, plenty of other reasons to automate work besides the cost...machines perform with a consistency that humans can't match, particularly ones making little to nothing per hour. Look at this thread; people either object to paying fast food workers more for economic reasons or because they get their orders screwed up...something a machine isn't likely to do.

[teaserpleaser]

I don't really eat fast food but if I did i'd want a robot making my food rather than some of the people I see here in LA ...for real its like Walmart workers nobody gives a shit about there job besides the managers. fast food and Walmart pay 15-20 bucks an hour in north Dakota because of the shortage of workers cola etc in the boom towns wonder if the workers work harder actually care about their jobs there.

[teaserpleaser]

You would care if you realized that menu prices would be hiked considerably to compensate for the increased wages. They aren't going let a wage increase cut into their profit margins, they will pass it onto the end customer.

let be honest who cares like the lottery (poor tax) it really only effects the poorest people you shouldn't be eating fast food more than once or twice a week anyway if that.

[OTL]

let be honest who cares like the lottery (poor tax) it really only effects the poorest people you shouldn't be eating fast food more than once or twice a week anyway if that.

Regardless, I don't see where these unskilled workers get off thinking they are worth $15 per hour when you have MBA graduates new to the work force looking at the prospect of $13 per hour in an office until they get some experience under their belts.

Maybe they should have just quit school and lobbied for higher wages for fast food workers instead?

[brooks85]

For starters, muldoon is one of the most consistently accurate guys on here...haven't seen him fly off the handle and post anything inaccurate or unsubstantiated just because he feels one way or another on a subject. Secondly, plenty of other reasons to automate work besides the cost...machines perform with a consistency that humans can't match, particularly ones making little to nothing per hour. Look at this thread; people either object to paying fast food workers more for economic reasons or because they get their orders screwed up...something a machine isn't likely to do.

well then you're off to a terrible start lol because that is pure nonsense.

Secondly, no. The only reason, as I alluded to in first post, a company would automate is because of cost. That is how businesses work... No one would automate at $3/hr hence muldoon is wrong like usual.

[Triple_D_Bet]

well then you're off to a terrible start lol because that is pure nonsense.

Secondly, no. The only reason, as I alluded to in first post, a company would automate is because of cost. That is called business and no one would automate at $3/hr hence muldoon is wrong like usual.

Shrug, can only go off my experience...feel free to dig up some examples of muldy being even mildly unreasonable, but until then, I'll count him as a valuable voice of reason.

There are upsides and downsides to automating, and cost isn't the only factor. The rise and continued success of fast-food joints is usually attributed to their ability to deliver consistent products that meet customer expectations across all of their restaurants, making it more convenient for the customer. The entire franchise model is about producing a model that delivers consistent products to the consumer when it's followed; it's reasonable to say that this consistency is just as important, if not more important, than labor costs. Ya know what does consistency better than humans? Machines.

In case you're trying to fall back to the very specific example, most $3 an hour employees are probably even more likely to be automated away than $8/hr ones. With a few exceptions, the people who will work for $3 an hour aren't going to be reliable, and saving a little on labor isn't much of a consolation when your sales tank from terrible service.

I don't know if you run or have run a business, or manage low-wage laborers, but I've done both, and the customer-interaction automation I have in place now will stay that way even if someone offers to do it for free. "Free labor" isn't, as I'd have to dedicate a lot of time to supervising them, training them etc...automation is still competitive cost-wise and more importantly to me, delivers a more consistent experience which keeps me in business.

[brooks85]

Shrug, can only go off my experience...feel free to dig up some examples of muldy being even mildly unreasonable, but until then, I'll count him as a valuable voice of reason.

There are upsides and downsides to automating, and cost isn't the only factor. The rise and continued success of fast-food joints is usually attributed to their ability to deliver consistent products that meet customer expectations across all of their restaurants, making it more convenient for the customer. The entire franchise model is about producing a model that delivers consistent products to the consumer when it's followed; it's reasonable to say that this consistency is just as important, if not more important, than labor costs. Ya know what does consistency better than humans? Machines.

In case you're trying to fall back to the very specific example, most $3 an hour employees are probably even more likely to be automated away than $8/hr ones. With a few exceptions, the people who will work for $3 an hour aren't going to be reliable, and saving a little on labor isn't much of a consolation when your sales tank from terrible service.

I don't know if you run or have run a business, or manage low-wage laborers, but I've done both, and the customer-interaction automation I have in place now will stay that way even if someone offers to do it for free. "Free labor" isn't, as I'd have to dedicate a lot of time to supervising them, training them etc...automation is still competitive cost-wise and more importantly to me, delivers a more consistent experience which keeps me in business.

oh it is simple, if you look under his name and hit the "post" link you'll find plenty of examples. He is by far one the most hypocritical people you will come across. Just put a little effort in and take a look for yourself.


Obviously this thread is a fine example, he is 100% wrong as I have proven(common thing between him and I). Just need to know the basic economics on how businesses invest in their labor whether it is a man or machine; no matter what anyone tells you the main factor is cost. It is not hard concept either, companies will not push for automation until it makes money sense and it sure as hell doesn't at $3/hr.

The fact is, as I said, artificially driving up the "living wage" will only speed up the rate at which companies push for automation. This is not an opinion, it is fact. Muldoon is wrong as usual.