GOD

[scumbag]

and another thing about kids being weak as ever, according to you, not sure, dont know any kids. but could you imagine being a kid today, every embarrassment is captured on smart phone and disseminated online for all to see?

i came of age in the late 90's. different world today.

[raydog]

raydog,

tough spot for this kid.

isolated from friends by shit bag parents for months on end. told all sorts of outrageous shit by them. abandoned by her friends after coming out, as you can imagine most boys of that age would tease someone like this. she was taken to some gay therapy person who told him even crazier shit.

kids can't see 10 years down the road and realize that this is a big world and plenty of people would accept her.

people need to feel loved and accepted, when they dont get that, their mental state can deteriorate rapidly.

if there is a hell, these bigoted, disgraceful morons have a spot reserved. maybe if she had some accepting friends to help her though it, it would have been different. obviously if her parents accepted and loved this would not have taken place.

she came out to the parents first. even if the school yard chums teased, parents could get her through.

just sad. religion kills. its not all love and roses as brainfreeze would have you believe.

i guess she didnt have a group of other gays to confide in? parents basically holding a kid hostage is quite fukked, i agree there...

[raydog]

and another thing about kids being weak as ever, according to you, not sure, dont know any kids. but could you imagine being a kid today, every embarrassment is captured on smart phone and disseminated online for all to see?

i came of age in the late 90's. different world today.

what i mean by being weak is that you cant even punish your kids without them threatening this or that... i dont have kids either, but a lot want to run wild and not pay for any consequences ... part of my city is one of the worst in the country... we have had numerous problems this year with kids running in large groups and vandalizing shit and beating up/robbing people... then ratting on everyone they ever saw commit a crime, in order to get out of trouble... always blaming others... seems to be the way the world works

[brainfreeze]

never understood why christians never give themselves the credit either... its always god answering a prayer... not the 80hours a week you put in in order to get that promotion or failed idea after failed idea you dealt with before that one idea struck gold... what if that good thing never happens? is that god being a dick and telling you that the world needs ditch diggers too? god has a purpose, eh... he just wants certain people to be failures so he can watch and giggle at them? how many people die miserable because they never achieved anything they set out to do...they were never given a chance or always got knocked down.. why did god hold them back or why doesnt he at least give us all a little help... there is just too much negative for me to believe we are put here to serve something that seems to enjoy all the bad that happens to his

why does god disapprove of abortion when he kills so many innocent kids with diseases? pretty fukkin hypocritical , dont ya think?

What about the people that do make something out of themselves even through the face of adversity, there's plenty of stories, me personally some of the guys I came up with are doing serious time right now, I'm talking 25 to L...., I know one that shot himself in the head in a botched bank robbery after cops gave chase, another overdosed to herion, one of my best friend died working a regular job off shore..... Why does this stuff happen ? Idk... Why some fail and some succeed ... I'm just thankful to have lived long enough for understanding, love, joy, peace, and patience that I have and the Holy Ghost highlights, even though I'm not rich materially, I have what's better then gold, Gods word...

[raydog]

i have to go back to what kracken said and say i think you should give yourself more credit...not always lean on the idea that someone is guiding you or that you cant achieve without help... with so many prayers that go unanswered and a bad outcome is usually produced, it seems, and i hate to use the word gullible again, but doesnt it seem a little gullible to think that god picks and chooses who to help and when? what makes others more special? with others, these questions just lead to more excuses pulled out of the air.

[brainfreeze]

i have to go back to what kracken said and say i think you should give yourself more credit...not always lean on the idea that someone is guiding you or that you cant achieve without help... with so many prayers that go unanswered and a bad outcome is usually produced, it seems, and i hate to use the word gullible again, but doesnt it seem a little gullible to think that god picks and chooses who to help and when? what makes others more special? with others, these questions just lead to more excuses pulled out of the air.

…22"After He had removed him, He raised up David to be their king, concerning whom He also testified and said, 'I HAVE FOUND DAVID the son of Jesse, A MAN AFTER MY HEART, who will do all My will.' 23"From the descendants of this man, according to promise, God has brought to Israel a Savior, Jesus,…

It's the heart... It always go back to what's in the heart.

[raydog]

which, again, leads us back to bad things happening to good hearted people... that verse only helps to solidify my personal theory that its all a game of chance and there is no power controlling anything... i dont know how it can be perceived any other way... how do you explain it otherwise?

[Bostongambler]

which, again, leads us back to bad things happening to good hearted people... that verse only helps to solidify my personal theory that its all a game of chance and there is no power controlling anything... i dont know how it can be perceived any other way... how do you explain it otherwise?

The answer I believe is contained in ur last sentence. It's not our job to explain it. We have no idea about anything God does or doesn't do and we can't make sense of it. I don't believe we are supposed to. How can we possibly think or understand on his level?

[brainfreeze]

which, again, leads us back to bad things happening to good hearted people... that verse only helps to solidify my personal theory that its all a game of chance and there is no power controlling anything... i dont know how it can be perceived any other way... how do you explain it otherwise?

See we might have different views on who a good person is, one who does good helps neighbors, " because he wants recognition from his peers and wants to just be a good friend " or he's a good dad " because he wants to be loved by his children and wife " or he's a honorable person " because he's self righteous and sees himself perfect ", I know a few like this, a good person to me has no agenda other then to please God, he does all of the above " because he wants to glorify God " except ones getting blessings from God the other is not... One is filled with the pride of life the other is filled with the humility of it...

[brainfreeze]

The answer I believe is contained in ur last sentence. It's not our job to explain it. We have no idea about anything God does or doesn't do and we can't make sense of it. I don't believe we are supposed to. How can we possibly think or understand on his level?

Yes, BG, yes.....

1 Corinthians 1:25

25Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

[raydog]

thats just an excuse... and a bad one... you believe so much and use verse to answer the more meaningless questions...but when the harder questions that really have more life meaning, the ones dealing with good or evil/answer or not answer prayers, who dies etc.. there is nothing but excuses because you are as bewildered as everyone else that your god can be so cruel.. now, there are no answers for the things that matter and you cant make sense of it, you just use blind faith... how do you expect everyone to trust this?

[brainfreeze]

thats just an excuse... and a bad one... you believe so much and use verse to answer the more meaningless questions...but when the harder questions that really have more life meaning, the ones dealing with good or evil/answer or not answer prayers, who dies etc.. there is nothing but excuses because you are as bewildered as everyone else that your god can be so cruel.. now, there are no answers for the things that matter and you cant make sense of it, you just use blind faith... how do you expect everyone to trust this?

my God is good, He's Great! Take your questions to Him, because anything I say you will just wave off as an excuse or something else.. Yes, faith is a constant it's not something one just has, take the story of Peter walking on water with Jesus, he soon started to sink because he took his eyes and thought off of Jesus, saying look at what I can do or look at these waves they are going to drown ME, instead of just keeping his eyes on the one that stood directly in front of him giving him the power to do so... So even the apostles had to constantly exercise faith and they walked with the Messiah..

[raydog]

i am listening to you, i understand how you come up with some conclusions...through bible verse.. i get that...dont believe any of it, but i get where you are coming from... but christians make excuses when they dont have an answer for something... its gods will, he has a plan yada yada... why are there large holes in the answers or no answers at all in the biggest questions posed? like i said before, IF I BELIEVED in anything in the bible the verse you quoted earlier would lead me to believe that everything is just chance...no strings being pulled... good continue to die while bad continue to get away with it... good people with good hearts are killed all the time...by your gods own word and whats written in the bible, this shouldnt happen and is totally opposite what your god claims to be his will

[bigtymer56]

See we might have different views on who a good person is, one who does good helps neighbors, " because he wants recognition from his peers and wants to just be a good friend " or he's a good dad " because he wants to be loved by his children and wife " or he's a honorable person " because he's self righteous and sees himself perfect ", I know a few like this, a good person to me has no agenda other then to please God, he does all of the above " because he wants to glorify God " except ones getting blessings from God the other is not... One is filled with the pride of life the other is filled with the humility of it...

Personally think you got it backwards.

Ill take the other 3 dudes over the guy who is only doing shit to get on god's good side any and everyday of the week.

[raydog]

The answer I believe is contained in ur last sentence. It's not our job to explain it. We have no idea about anything God does or doesn't do and we can't make sense of it. I don't believe we are supposed to. How can we possibly think or understand on his level?

i guess i dont understand the logic, bg.. if you cant explain it and it continues to baffle people, how and why would you obey/live by it? why do you live by the words of something that kills off the good and innocent... bf says nobody is innocent, but there are sure as shit a lot worse out there that could be dealt with...

[brainfreeze]

Personally think you got it backwards.

Ill take the other 3 dudes over the guy who is only doing shit to get on god's good side any and everyday of the week.

Its by faith and grace " free gift " not by works to get on " Gods good side ", I'm already on His side, it's to give glory to the Creator, and not about self... What people don't understand about self, self is like a animal " a beast with no reasoning " anyone remember that cartoon popeye, there was a character called Brutus ... Brutus was big full of himself, prideful and quite foolish, no understanding, he just did... " he was a brute ", these are the characteristics of self

[brainfreeze]

i guess i dont understand the logic, bg.. if you cant explain it and it continues to baffle people, how and why would you obey/live by it? why do you live by the words of something that kills off the good and innocent... bf says nobody is innocent, but there are sure as shit a lot worse out there that could be dealt with...

and they will be, rather in this world or the next, but everything happens for a reason, like why did they crucify Jesus ? Hateful, malicious act of murdering a PERFECT being, but because of that act everyone gets a shot to connect with God, so something terrible happened that actually gave everyone in the world a chance to choose eternal life...

Why are you blaming God, and not the animal nature of man for these acts, it's satan at work, place your blame correctly.

[raydog]

Your God should protect its most innocent and most Worthy while here on earth... It doesn't... It's not confusing to me, its faith..I understand that.. what's confusing is how you are lead down and agree to follow this irrational path in the first place... I would expect much more and better out of my God...

[rkelly110]

Yeah, it sucks our loved ones die. Good people die at the hands of bad people or just by accident.

Food for thought here. You might have to use your brain muscles. I'm sure anyone here can name numerous times
they should've been dead years ago. You're alive now, what do you think attributed to that? Luck? Your ability?

How about just plain old life? Are you just lucky you were born to good parents who helped you through life? Gave
you everything to survive the big bad world? Maybe some effort on your part helped? Were you put here for a reason?

We are all intertwined in the fabric of life. What one does affects another.

I believe in our afterlives, we are always learning. Somethings just need to be experienced for ourselves, so we garner a plan and come to earth to learn it. Maybe you want to experience being a strung out druggy, maybe a fireman who saves lives. Yes, maybe help your friend by killing him in this life, because you wanted to experience killing someone and he wanted to go home early.

The dead sea scrolls throw around the idea WE are god. Each of us. Many believe those are the true teachings of Christ before man decided they can rule the world by changing the word of Jesus to benefit themselves.

So, from one god to another, .

[jtoler]

Your God should protect its most innocent and most Worthy while here on earth... It doesn't... It's not confusing to me, its faith..I understand that.. what's confusing is how you are lead down and agree to follow this irrational path in the first place... I would expect much more and better out of my God...

How do you know he doesnt.

[The Kraken]

C'mon man, don't talk about "basic decency" when you start threads showing pictures of yourself in you're panties wearing yoga socks. Effeminate metro sexual wannabe men are the root of all things indecent.

Would have not even mentioned this except for the fact you HAVE NO RIGHT questioning decency.

carry on…….

holy sht man, I just literally Just spit a small amount of fine Italian coffee out. Can't believe I missed this post.

haha.. yeah krack... its right there in the fine print somewhere... "posting pics in underwear is strictly forbidden, indecent and immoral .. kind of like fukking sheep and have gay orgies, but that didnt stop them back in the day...just say you are sorry.. all is forgiven pal

Its always the fine print that gets me. I blame bad eyes and ADHD.

If I'd have know prior to that posting pics in panties and yoga socks was equivalent to Fukking sheep, I'd have bought a sheep

[raydog]

How do you know he doesnt.

because he brings diseased kids who live a miserable short life, until death, into the world, continues to kill off the good and the idea of a god continues to let you guys down, one prayer at a time...the more we discuss this, the more im confident in my rational adult opinion and the science that debunks the entire god theory...

maybe ive seen too much bad to begin having an open mind about it again...the logic has never been there for me, so i find it hard to believe it will happen in my older years

[jtoler]

because he brings diseased kids who live a miserable short life, until death, into the world, continues to kill off the good and the idea of a god continues to let you guys down, one prayer at a time...the more we discuss this, the more im confident in my rational adult opinion and the science that debunks the entire god theory...

maybe ive seen too much bad to begin having an open mind about it again...the logic has never been there for me, so i find it hard to believe it will happen in my older years

He seemed to protect Paul through his many trials, with that said take a look at Luke 13:2-5.

[bobtoma]

I imagine there is a higher power.. Things just happened to.well just for The Big Bang Theory.. I believe in Jesus he was proved...

[raydog]

i can buy into the idea of a historical jesus... although there is little proof he existed and no proof of a god...

there are tons of these articles out there... a lot of reasons to question his existence and if he did exist, what he was really about

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/08/did-historical-jesus-exist-growing-number-of-scholars-dont-think-so/

[recon1]

Kraken…….

I'll bet you had the pinky finger up in air as you sipped on that coffee.

[brainfreeze]

i can buy into the idea of a historical jesus... although there is little proof he existed and no proof of a god...

there are tons of these articles out there... a lot of reasons to question his existence and if he did exist, what he was really about

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/08/d...dont-think-so/

Of course they aren't going to give you evidence... Com'on raydog, you should know by now the world isn't your friend they cover, hide, and burry truth alllll the time...History His-story.... The one with the gold makes the rules, let's look at what is there though, Israel.... I would love for the atheist here explain Jewish Israel.. God said He would make them a powerful nation.... It is written, and another prophecy fulfilled in the 40s

[raydog]

take any place, give it some "holy land" title , fill the air with religious nonsense and the sheep will come... you think that god made some sort of great prediction with isreal? lolzzz ... good one .. isreal knows its place and who they can and cant fukk with or compete with

[The Kraken]

Of course they aren't going to give you evidence... Com'on raydog, you should know by now the world isn't your friend they cover, hide, and burry truth alllll the time...History His-story.... The one with the gold makes the rules, let's look at what is there though, Israel.... I would love for the atheist here explain Jewish Israel.. God said He would make them a powerful nation.... It is written, and another prophecy fulfilled in the 40s

In another thread, Chilidog was probing a point and said "100% o people that drink water will die. Therefore, water will kill you".

its an example of how correlation can be misleading.

fwiw, I, like probably everyone else in this thread, have made many predictions that came true.

Giess I was just too shortsighted to capitalize on them

[StackinGreen]

i can buy into the idea of a historical jesus... although there is little proof he existed and no proof of a god...

there are tons of these articles out there... a lot of reasons to question his existence and if he did exist, what he was really about

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/08/d...dont-think-so/

Seriously, raydog, this isn't about you believing (which isn't a mental attitude, although it can be psychological as well; mainly it's experience and action, that's what pisteos [faith] in greek means) --- it is about being honest about history.

There is more evidence that Jesus of Nazareth existed than any other person you acknowledge, or scholars acknowledge, from the ancient world. Sanhedrin texts, Roman contemporaries including but not limited to Josephus, and textual criticism of the gospels as well as concurrent histories make it certain that he existed. Any scholar, believer or non-believer, who is honest will tell you this --- and there are thousands of them.

Let's just summarize with this: the one true God is interested in people who seek Him with an open heart. If you are open minded and humble enough to say, "I will ask, God, show me who you are" and you attempt in earnest through prayers, fasting and other forms of self-denial --- the life recommended by the Saints, he will reveal himself.

If you aren't interested in meeting the way, truth and life, then you don't have to do anything. But he is reaching out for all of his, yet we deny him all the time (we are all humans and we all do this). The key is to struggle to find the truth in this fallen state of ours. In that struggle he will comfort you. It's hard to do in a wealthy, materially comforting society, however.

Best to all! Seek and find!

[The Kraken]

i can buy into the idea of a historical jesus... although there is little proof he existed and no proof of a god...

there are tons of these articles out there... a lot of reasons to question his existence and if he did exist, what he was really about

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/08/d...dont-think-so/

Seriously, raydog, this isn't about you believing (which isn't a mental attitude, although it can be psychological as well; mainly it's experience and action, that's what pisteos [faith] in greek means) --- it is about being honest about history.

There is more evidence that Jesus of Nazareth existed than any other person you acknowledge, or scholars acknowledge, from the ancient world. Sanhedrin texts, Roman contemporaries including but not limited to Josephus, and textual criticism of the gospels as well as concurrent histories make it certain that he existed. Any scholar, believer or non-believer, who is honest will tell you this --- and there are thousands of them.

Let's just summarize with this: the one true God is interested in people who seek Him with an open heart. If you are open minded and humble enough to say, "I will ask, God, show me who you are" and you attempt in earnest through prayers, fasting and other forms of self-denial --- the life recommended by the Saints, he will reveal himself.

If you aren't interested in meeting the way, truth and life, then you don't have to do anything. But he is reaching out for all of his, yet we deny him all the time (we are all humans and we all do this). The key is to struggle to find the truth in this fallen state of ours. In that struggle he will comfort you. It's hard to do in a wealthy, materially comforting society, however.

Best to all! Seek and find!

I could've sworn Ray stated something along the lines of "I can buy into the idea of a historical jesus." Not sure where he said that but I vividly remember it.

The main point of your post was to look objectively at history and we will see that jesus was in fact a real person and there is more evidence he existed that any other person

But I'm confused because Ray wasn't denying it

I think you're being passive aggressive and the real point of your post is something much different than whether jesus existed in the human flesh. Your real point is that jesus is the son of god and we should all seek god with an open heart.

You're sneaky but you can't fool a fool

[StackinGreen]

I could've sworn Ray stated something along the lines of "I can buy into the idea of a historical jesus." Not sure where he said that but I vividly remember it.

The main point of your post was to look objectively at history and we will see that jesus was in fact a real person and there is more evidence he existed that any other person

But I'm confused because Ray wasn't denying it

I think you're being passive aggressive and the real point of your post is something much different than whether jesus existed in the human flesh. Your real point is that jesus is the son of god and we should all seek god with an open heart.

You're sneaky but you can't fool a fool

He said there is little evidence. That's just not true. There is far more evidence than for any other person from antiquity, and it's not even close. That's my point. Of course there is more evidence that your dad existed (now that he is living) but he is not from antiquity. You have to compare apples to apples. Furthermore, once your father dies, there likely will be more evidence Jesus of Nazareth existed than He. See the irony?

I'm not passive aggressive at all. I'm not sneaky. Jesus exists and is beyond existence. I can't show you this though, I can only tell you the facts of history and things regarding my life experience.

Forget me for a second. How can anyone deride seeking the possibility of the one true God? People want to be "open minded" about all manner of things, and think it's important, but they don't want to be open minded about possibly the most important thing in human life? It just shows you how screwed up and rebellious we are.

My attempts and postings here are strictly about being honest with ourselves and trying to think the right way.

[The Kraken]

I was wrong and misread his quote. My apologies.

I don't think we became atheist by being close minded, in fact for me, it was just the opposite. I used to be involved in church, was a youth director, led worship and gave my life over to christ. But that was close minded of me because I never considered the real possibility he didn't exist.

That's when I opened my mind and made my own choice.

I like your post Stackin because for me, it gets down to the nitty gritty of what I view as a problem, much like yourself. We're just on opposite sides.

I view christians as close minded. I know very few that have actually given any serious thought to the idea that god does not exist. They are afraid to even admit that may be a possibility. For those, I can't respect their choices because like you said, it's important to be open minded but that goes for both sides.

No one should seek out anything other than the truth, whatever that may be.

I've been open minded on both sides of the equation and continue to be but I can say with certainty now that I do not believe in god. This is subject to change anytime however if god chose to come break bread with me and drink my wine.

[StackinGreen]

It's ok. You may have very good reasons to believe what you do (or not), especially given all the bad teachings out there about "God."

I've always been confused by people who don't think that humans are special; that we can have a conversation with one another, or we can type messages to one another and dialogue from the corners of the earth are all mini-signs of the power of God. Non material things like beauty and truth and love, we are all capable of experiencing and there is no measurable aspect of these. These are also signs, apart from personal experiences.

I think that if we are honest with ourselves and humble, we'll find out how self destructive and broken we are and can be and how we need healing. The eastern christians have a mode of living and theology unknown to the West and it is a shame less people are aware of it. Its focus is a way of life to be in a proper relationship with God, one which doesn't have anything to do with shame, guilt, and punishment. These distortions are what created atheism in the West and have no part in true, ancient, historical christianity.

The Truth is out there.

[raydog]

like i said, there are tons of articles similar to this... i wasnt making it up... read the article to see there are plenty scholars and others of importance who think jesus was a mythical character... im just stating what the article and many others say.. and i will disagree with there being more evidence of jesus than any other man.. that sounds like something a bible thumper would say... and believing in the bible isnt for me... but again, i can accept there was a historical jesus or leave it... it will never have an effect on my life

religion has no place in my life.. i dont need it to have decent morals, nobody does...and i will never fear the unproven... gullible, fearful and dependent on a god are 3 things i will never be... like krack said, its extremely close minded to sheepishly trust and believe in a god... i will never understand how adults can believe in what seems like such nonsense...