NoJuice and Bet4Aces = Give us official news or better

[Uncle B]

Books have gone down in the past and they will go down in the future. The players are what is important here, forget about blaming certain forums, nobody is immuned to this. TOW is bailing them out slowly, so this is a good thing. He got me a bail from Legendz yesterday with my No Juice balance. Man came through..

'man came through'


lol


are you for real?


the 'man' lied about having 'insurance' for this scam outfit.. the 'man' pocketed $40,000 of players post-up funds, that he took to promote them.

the 'man' didn't secure you a bailout, he offered you a decent bonus, WITH more post up money required upfront.



holy shiat, i am surrounded.

'the man came through'


i guess as long as their are people like you around, he will be able to continue to fleece the players.

[yokspot]

yokspot, what reasoning has tow given you, for not paying you the $2,500 you have comming from the 'funds safety' program?

To be honest I've not given the "insurance" matter it a lot of thought. There's a Royal bailout in the pipeline, so I figured to go with that. I'm not sure if these disgusting allegations from Charlie have any impact on the proposed bailout, but if they can accuse me, they can accuse anyone of this "syndicate" bullsh*t - and I'm sure they will, at least, anyone with decent sized balances. This can be the only reason. I very much doubt there is an actual "syndicate", or whatever this accusation revolves around. This is simply an extremely lame attempt to reduce their financial liability.

Why were my three losing deposits not subject to this "syndicate" issue? I deposited $100, then $500 and $500 again, before depositing another $500 and winning. Since all four of my deposits were "fraudulent", all coming from the same address as they were, all part of this "Vietnamese syndicate", all originating from "Vancouver in Canada", why were these deposits not picked up on? Why did my three losing deposits pass the test, but my fourth winning one was fraudulent?

This really is pathetic. These people are desperate.

Let me repeat: I must have played at upwards of 300 / 400 online gambling operations in my time. I have never once been accused of fraud of any kind. I can give a list of top notch sportsbooks and casinos I've dealt with, and the most trustworthy and regarded members of the industry who've assisted me, including high up people at Neteller, who can vouch for the honesty of all my dealings.

And yes, we have all been scammed by these people. I thought maybe they were just inexperienced and had a bad run, but this was clearly a scam from the outset.

[Uncle B]

this was clearly a scam from the outset.

of course it was a scam.


they even employed some of the people behind betonstars..


roberto knew this, you didn't catch all the "oh, uh..thats a different johnny, yeah, uh, that ones the owner, the other one is the , uh.. janitor"

then, the initials seemed interchangeable after that.. with a new , stupid explanation each time, as to who used what name.


it was/is a scam, and tow was/is in on it, all the way back to the beginning of the betonstars episode.

[k68los]

Yokspot,

Please forgive me for posting your private information........The truth is that I am not used to posting and I have done it so far to help everyone on this situation.

Here's what I am going to do.......... Call me tomorrow morning since I have been in contact with Chester from Bet royal...We spoke today and we are going to review all those player's accounts in order to complete negotiations as to how many players will be included into the Bail out proposal.

Please do not think that this will be taken care inmediately, hopefully before I am gone, I will have everything settle with BR.

As to your situation, I am going to have them review (one more time) your information (IP and MAc Addresss). So please call me tomorrow morning.

to everyone here, it is not me who's paying...I don't take anything said here personal but I do want to help as much as I can. This syndicate situation I did not come up with it, it's there, other books have close accounts and won't give deposits back..... I believed that if that was the situation at least return the money players deposited.

All outstanding payments will be taken care at the end of September.

[k68los]

Charlie,
This came up long after 4aces was broke and looking for any way to reduce who they pay.

You can not take this man's money and let him bet and when he wins claim he is a syndicate. That's worse than BetOnSports's scam.

The man sent in good funds, bet the lines you offered and won. Was he sharp as can be? Probably. Was he a syndicate? No but it makes no difference.

Charlie do the right thing. These Bet4aces guys and roberto are taking you down with them. You are a good guy Charlie, don't be as evil as the stiffs you are surrounded by. SBR will help you get another job but you can't hurt players like this. Just tell the truth.

John,

This situation with syndicate players was talked over with each and every single player involved at one time before my posts here, nevertheless, I also feel sad that a decision like that was taken and I have been in the best position to help those who deposited, even those who's balances are in Zero, those players need to have their deposits returned as well...That's the way I feel.

I can't stay further than the end of the month, I wish I could in order to help everyone to a fair deal.

I spoke to Chester at Bet Royal and we will be in talks tomorrow morning in order to find a way to help those players that want a bail out. I wish I could do more for everyone but there's only so much I can do.

[Uncle B]

John,

This situation with syndicate players was talked over with each and every single player involved at one time before my posts here, nevertheless, I also feel sad that a decision like that was taken and I have been in the best position to help those who deposited, even those who's balances are in Zero, those players need to have their deposits returned as well...That's the way I feel.

I can't stay further than the end of the month, I wish I could in order to help everyone to a fair deal.

I spoke to Chester at Bet Royal and we will be in talks tomorrow morning in order to find a way to help those players that want a bail out. I wish I could do more for everyone but there's only so much I can do.

Charlie may be the sweetest guy on earth for all i know, or care.

Right now, all that i see, is a pig in the mud with a few other pigs.

You can't associate, and aide thieves and criminals, who are actively stealing funds from players, and simply smile sheepishly, and say "oh, i wish i could do more..i am sad."


You are sad?


How the Hell do you think these players who entrusted you with THEIR money feel?


This is theft, Charlie. Plain and simple theft.

The company you represent, are stealing money from the people you are posting with here.

So, screw the 'oh gee whiz, i wish i could do more" crap, and try refusing to peddle this "syndicate" gargabe like you have been doing lately.


It's just another in a string of lies and deciet, aimed at lowing the roof on the amount of funds you have stolen, and, it isn't working.

Either cut the crap, and demand that your company be forthright and upfront about the situation at hand, and work towards getting ALL PLAYERS theiur money, one way or another, or just stay away.


Everyting else, imo, is just rubbing salt in the wounds.

[SBR_John]

Uncle,
This is not about Charlie. He is a working man doing the best he can for way, way, way too little money.

Roberto and the Bet4aces owners are the ones pulling the strings and we are slowly making progress with them.

To Roberto and Bet4;
Pay. There is no creative way out of this.

Bet4,
You are getting BAD advice.

[Uncle B]

Uncle,
This is not about Charlie. He is a working man doing the best he can for way, way, way too little money.

Roberto and the Bet4aces owners are the ones pulling the strings and we are slowly making progress with them.

To Roberto and Bet4;
Pay. There is no creative way out of this.

Bet4,
You are getting BAD advice.

That may very well be true, but, i stand by my assertion that as long as Charlie allows himself to be used in the manner he is being used, he is no better than the compnay he represents.


to continue to just act as b4a's and roberto's mouthpiece, he is doing nothing but destroying any credibility he may have once had.


either stand up, and refuse to post these outlandish allegations and lies, or, simply go away.


allowing roberto to dictate what is said, especially when it is just one fabrication after another, will just ruin the guy.

[yokspot]

either stand up, and refuse to post these outlandish allegations and lies, or, simply go away.

I agree with your post, other than that Roberto was dictating anything. This was down to B4As, not TOW. There were some bad business decisions in taking these stiff shops on board, but there was no conspiracy to defraud players on the part of TOW.

CHARLIE: clearly, the Vietnamese syndicate allegation against me is bogus - Roberto knows this, and for good measure John has confirmed the geographical origin of my posts.

Does B4As management, Reyes & Co, accept this, or are they firm in their commitment to NOT pay?

I ask because of the various options on the table, the best one in money terms is complete payment from the book. If we take bailouts with huge rollovers we will lose money. My inclination is to hold out a bit longer for B4As to resolve the situation themselves, BUT I need to know first if this Vietnamese syndicate crap has been dropped, because if it hasn't I'm not going to see any more than my deposits at best.

Charlie, if you would please communicate with Roberto on this matter, or take up John's offer to stop by and check out my posting location, it would be appreciated. You can then pass the information onto your bosses and put their minds at rest.

Equally, if you're almost out the door, please ask Mr. Reyes to do same. As it stands, I'm in limbo.

[Uncle B]

Anything is possible, but, i'd bet my left nut roberto had a part in this whole "syndicate" charade.


i have observed this clown for over 3 years now.. this 'vietnamese syndicate' idiocy has 'roberto' written all over it.

regardless.. i am interested in seeing where they go with this now too.


and, i gotta say, i am surprised as Hell you are willing to risk waiting for these guys to 'recoup', or whatever.


i see little to no chance or hope of them ever doing business again...at least, as 'bet4aces'.


You really think investors have faith in this place? you really think any player with knowledge of their past would ever consider actually sending them funds again?


Hell, anythings possible, but, i'd bet on tow actually paying out the ficticious "funds safety" payments they owe players, before this place is ever up and running a legit operation.


Iow, it's about as likely as Paris Hilton staying fully clothed in a home video..


So, anyways..Uh, well..

good luck.

[yokspot]

and, i gotta say, i am surprised as Hell you are willing to risk waiting for these guys to 'recoup', or whatever...i see little to no chance or hope of them ever doing business again...at least, as 'bet4aces'.

You really think investors have faith in this place? you really think any player with knowledge of their past would ever consider actually sending them funds again?

I don't see it as a risk, just a delay. I don't know if they'll try to reopen, or just pay from other ventures and move on, or not pay and move out.

At the moment, there is a list of options. The best first step in my opinion is to see what happens in a month or two (caveat for the BS "syndicate" crap, LOL). If we strike that one off the list, we move on down.

IMO, taking a disadvantageous (though much appreciated!) bailout is NOT the best option for now.

[Uncle B]

I don't see it as a risk, just a delay. I don't know if they'll try to reopen, or just pay from other ventures and move on, or not pay and move out.

At the moment, there is a list of options. The best first step in my opinion is to see what happens in a month or two (caveat for the BS "syndicate" crap, LOL). If we strike that one off the list, we move on down.

IMO, taking a disadvantageous (though much appreciated!) bailout is NOT the best option for now.

gotcha..


are you sure that the 'bailout/bonus' thing being offered up right now though, will still be available in a month or two?




p.s.

check your pm's

[Bill Dozer]

There is no "syndicate". There are players who are friends and family members stupidly invited to play at the book by the staff which was also the staff of BetonStars and RichCoastSports. IPs and like last names were always visible.

For Roberto and 4aces to yell fraud now would be funny if there weren't player balances involved. You can't lick your plate clean and send it back because you didn't like the food.

[Uncle B]

You can't lick your plate clean and send it back because you didn't like the food.

i like that analogy.

[slash]

I can't believe that some people still think that Bet4Aces will pull through and pay them. Any hope of ever seeing a cent from that book comes from a bail out or the insurance program.

[yokspot]

gotcha..

are you sure that the 'bailout/bonus' thing being offered up right now though, will still be available in a month or two?

Agreed, that much is a risk. Still, I've taken worse.

I can't believe that some people still think that Bet4Aces will pull through and pay them. Any hope of ever seeing a cent from that book comes from a bail out or the insurance program.

Who said they believed this? I said it was one of a handful of options, the other ones being those you mentioned.

To not pursue ALL options would be ridiculous.

[slash]

yokspot,

You - for example - said: "The best first step in my opinion is to see what happens in a month or two (caveat for the BS "syndicate" crap, LOL). If we strike that one off the list, we move on down."

A friendly advice: Strike any possibility of Bet4Aces paying off the list ASAP and move down your list.

[yokspot]

LMAO. I PMed Charlie earlier today to see if we could put an end to this "syndicate" BS. Well, wouldn't you know it? B4As has just locked my account.

Nice.

Looks like a pretty definitive statement, if you ask me.

[k68los]

I agree with your post, other than that Roberto was dictating anything. This was down to B4As, not TOW. There were some bad business decisions in taking these stiff shops on board, but there was no conspiracy to defraud players on the part of TOW.

CHARLIE: clearly, the Vietnamese syndicate allegation against me is bogus - Roberto knows this, and for good measure John has confirmed the geographical origin of my posts.

Does B4As management, Reyes & Co, accept this, or are they firm in their commitment to NOT pay?

I ask because of the various options on the table, the best one in money terms is complete payment from the book. If we take bailouts with huge rollovers we will lose money. My inclination is to hold out a bit longer for B4As to resolve the situation themselves, BUT I need to know first if this Vietnamese syndicate crap has been dropped, because if it hasn't I'm not going to see any more than my deposits at best.

Charlie, if you would please communicate with Roberto on this matter, or take up John's offer to stop by and check out my posting location, it would be appreciated. You can then pass the information onto your bosses and put their minds at rest.

Equally, if you're almost out the door, please ask Mr. Reyes to do same. As it stands, I'm in limbo.

Yokspot,

Please note that all allegations of YOU being part of a syndicated group, have been dropped. B4A have confirmed to me that they will pay all outstanding debts at the end of September, just as they promised.

I would like to apologize to you because I got wrong information on your account, they had mistaken your account with someone else's IP address. I have confirmation in front of me that tells me exactly what your location is. My most deep apologies to you sir.

I did not want to leave here feeling that I might of been charging someone of something they did not have anything to do with (specially after knowing that SBR had a clear view of your location). So, I decided to have our techs re do the trace one more time.

As to what to do? I feel that receiving all the money you are owed would be better than going through the bail out solution. B4A have promised to pay by the end of september I am inclined to believe that they will....Their commitment is to pay not to walk away leaving everyone dry.

My respects.

[yokspot]

Yokspot,

Please note that all allegations of YOU being part of a syndicated group, have been dropped...I would like to apologize to you because I got wrong information on your account, they had mistaken your account with someone else's IP address. I have confirmation in front of me that tells me exactly what your location is. My most deep apologies to you sir.

All that being the case, apology entirely accepted and absolutely no hard feeling, Charlie. All's well that ends well. I'm sure you understand that I had to report on the matter as it was presented to me, but in the circumstances, I'm sorry if it caused you unpleasantness.

Thank you very much, and if you are now at the end of your tenure and out the B4As door, good luck to you and all the very best.

[Uncle B]

looks like tow is finally admitting there never was any actual 'funds safety program' for the players.

NoJuice - F.P.S. Official List
The following is the verified and final list of accounts registered with the Funds Safety Program and in compliance with its rules and regulations:

NJ1092 / NJ1106 / NJ1109 / NJ1111 / NJ1116 / NJ1163 / NJ1175 / NJ1184 / NJ1188 / NJ1192 / NJ1408 / NJ1443 / NJ1483 / NJ1510 / NJ2251

The following is the verified and final list of accounts registered with the Funds Safety Program who have been granted the Legendz Sports bailout option. In view of that option the hereunder listed registrations have been voided:

NJ1100 / NJ1174 / NJ1176 / NJ1425

As far as the group still eligible to benefit from the Funds Safety Program goes please note that we are currently negotiating bailout options with several books rated 8/B or higher.

All the above mentioned account holders have balances that well exceed the maximum amount covered by the FPS, $2,500.

In view of the foregoing, and in the attempt to secure these players entire balances we will continue to seek bailout relief resolutions up to September 8 2006. Past that date the ones who will not have been granted bailout options will receive their FPS payout.


Please note: Bailout options are non optional, provided the relief book is rated 8/B or higher.

bail-outs are 'non-optional'?


so, there are no funds available, as was promised when the players signed up for these shops through tow.


what a shameless scam.

[aggie]

looks like there are just 15 accounts eligible. i'm sure there are sufficient funds to cover them all for $2500. i think it should be done and only then a bailout for the remainder.

[JoshW]

Just speaking for me as a No Juice player. I appreciate the insurance offer from TOW assuming no larger bailout options.

[Uncle B]

looks like there are just 15 accounts eligible. i'm sure there are sufficient funds to cover them all for $2500. i think it should be done and only then a bailout for the remainder.

It isn't an option.


tow is refusing to honor it's own pledge to insure it's players.


they either accept this 'bailout/bonus' offer he has scrounged up, or, they are on their own.

it's theft, plain and simple... a fraud perpetrated against the players, by a supposed *players advocate*.

[Uncle B]

Just speaking for me as a No Juice player. I appreciate the insurance offer from TOW assuming no larger bailout options.

insurance offer???


please explain.


have you been told you will be given the $2500 you were promised.

[SwampyJ]

I interpret it that 15 players qualified for the insurance. They will paid the insurance payment if a bailout for those 15 cannot be arranged by Sept 8, 2006.

SwampyJ

[JoshW]

What SwampyJ said. Nothing special, just glad for anything I can get.

I know some aren't happy with the way it worked out and feel they deserve 2500 in cash as insurance, and I am not saying they are wrong to feel that way. The way they understood the insurance anything less they feel is BS.

I wasn't aware of the details, so I am happy with anything I could get. See how well the RX bailout of BOS players goes if that situation goes bad. :| As John has said, true insurance policies are a rare thing.

As for me, am happy to get a firm date when I would get some payout of my funds if no bailout.

[Uncle B]

I interpret it that 15 players qualified for the insurance. They will paid the insurance payment if a bailout for those 15 cannot be arranged by Sept 8, 2006.

SwampyJ

really?


so, you think there really is a 'funds safety program', and, players might actually get the funds they were gauranteed would be available to them, should these shops become insolvent?

beacuse, personally, i think it is all one shamelss, ongoing scam being perpetrated against the players.


I guess we'll know for sure, sooner or later.