NoJuice and Bet4Aces = Give us official news or better

[Uncle B]

so, now there is supposed to be "good news" at the end of the week? or, is it still "2 months"?


can;t even keepo up with the lies and idiocy involved with these scam sites anymore.


any recent updates at all, from the sites that promoted these crooks? any word on bailout? "insurance" disbursements? anything???


i really feel for anyone stuck at these shops..whats a nightmare.

[SwampyJ]

so, now there is supposed to be "good news" at the end of the week? or, is it still "2 months"?


can;t even keepo up with the lies and idiocy involved with these scam sites anymore.


any recent updates at all, from the sites that promoted these crooks? any word on bailout? "insurance" disbursements? anything???


i really feel for anyone stuck at these shops..whats a nightmare.

I posted a similar questions on TOW a couple of days ago and TOW replied the following:

-In regards to No Juice= He expects to hear something by today from them. Last time I checked TOW, there was not any new info.

- In regards to the "insurance program"= he said he would have a list of those that will be covered by the end of this week.

SwampyJ

[Uncle B]

I posted a similar questions on TOW a couple of days ago and TOW replied the following:

-In regards to No Juice= He expects to hear something by today from them. Last time I checked TOW, there was not any new info.

- In regards to the "insurance program"= he said he would have a list of those that will be covered by the end of this week.

SwampyJ

what a mess.


"a list of those that will be covered"..

i would hope he would see fit to spread out every penny he pocketed from this scam outfit, to all the players he mislead into trusting them to begin with.

nothing but bloodmoney anyways, imo.

[SwampyJ]

what a mess.


"a list of those that will be covered"..

i would hope he would see fit to spread out every penny he pocketed from this scam outfit, to all the players he mislead into trusting them to begin with.

nothing but bloodmoney anyways, imo.

I see nothing wrong with that idea, but I have no idea how much books pay to advertise on websites. IMO, I do not see him going over the max money he has set for these type of payouts. I think I read it is about 40k, but from reading different forums, the amount of players stiiffed by No Juice ranges from 78 to a little over 300 players. Lets say it is 300 players and everyone of them are covered and payed equally. That roughly comes out to about $133. Personally, I would be out about $3200 and I know that others, if the amounts they said they have in No Juice are accurate, would be out 10 to 20k. To me, my 3k is alot. Imagine the others. This whole situation could get real ugly.

SwampyJ

[Uncle B]

I see nothing wrong with that idea, but I have no idea how much books pay to advertise on websites. IMO, I do not see him going over the max money he has set for these type of payouts. I think I read it is about 40k, but from reading different forums, the amount of players stiiffed by No Juice ranges from 78 to a little over 300 players. Lets say it is 300 players and everyone of them are covered and payed equally. That roughly comes out to about $133. Personally, I would be out about $3200 and I know that others, if the amounts they said they have in No Juice are accurate, would be out 10 to 20k. To me, my 3k is alot. Imagine the others. This whole situation could get real ugly.

SwampyJ

no, 300 was a bloated number roberto tossed up, for some 'unknown' reason.


the true number of nojuice players owed is around 84... not sure how much money they actually owe.

supposedly though, their total net loss was around $200,000..

no telling how much is still owed to the 84 remaining players though..much less than what was reported though, thats for sure.

[tennis28]

how do you know how they much owe and why are your figures correct and roberto's are not?

[bboots]

get no answer at nj today....didnt really expect to...cant we get some sort of update here?

[Doug]

no, 300 was a bloated number roberto tossed up, for some 'unknown' reason.


the true number of nojuice players owed is around 84... not sure how much money they actually owe.

supposedly though, their total net loss was around $200,000..

no telling how much is still owed to the 84 remaining players though..much less than what was reported though, thats for sure.

Big difference between 200k and the 1.2 M that was claimed earlier.

Those 84 may include many very small balances. I could never bet cents there, and have 84 cents left. There could be many accounts like mine with change in them, do they count towards the 84 owed players ? I don't seek the change, just saying there may be far less than 84 that are owed anything worth counting.

Most owed must be forum players, I don't see anything close to 84 complaining about being screwed.

[tennis28]

i'm pretty sure that Roberto stated NJ investors have lost 1.2 million inception, and currently owe players 300k. In other words, they have paid out much more than taken in, and are unwilling to pony up the last 300k to get themselves out of debt.

[Doug]

i'm pretty sure that Roberto stated NJ investors have lost 1.2 million inception, and currently owe players 300k. In other words, they have paid out much more than taken in, and are unwilling to pony up the last 300k to get themselves out of debt.

supposedly they only took in 300k in deposits the whole time in business and lost 1.2 M on that, earlier SBR John said that was almost impossible, I agree. That must include all expenses.

I really think most of those 84 accounts have almost nothing in them.

[SwampyJ]

I have seen alot numbers thrown around regarding No Juice and I have no idea what is true or false. Sometimes I feel like their is only a handful of players complaining and that our constant inquirys to NJ about the status of our money always result in the same response "I dont know". TOW's responses to our requests for info are just about as informative as NJ's and about as frequent.

[Doug]

I have seen alot numbers thrown around regarding No Juice and I have no idea what is true or false. Sometimes I feel like their is only a handful of players complaining and that our constant inquirys to NJ about the status of our money always result in the same response "I dont know". TOW's responses to our requests for info are just about as informative as NJ's and about as frequent.

Pretty likely all the players came from TOW, and it's only a dozen or so owed, but some balances are 5-figures, IMO.

[yokspot]

We have told tow multiple times we are ready to help. But we need an accurate database which they refuse to supply. Without being able to verify the true player balances there can be no bailout.

I had an exchange with RPM yesterday which suggests it's not down to TOW:

as far as sbr goes, we would of course welcome anyones help with any of these issues. it has nothing to do with pride. it has to do with the books in question being willing.

So it seems that forum-shinanigans isn't the stumbling block, but that B4As is not willing to supply the database.

[tacomax]

Pretty likely all the players came from TOW, and it's only a dozen or so owed, but some balances are 5-figures, IMO.

I'm sure there are a lot more than a dozen but I'm also equally sure that some people are either resigned to their loss and/or of the mindset that constantly bringing it up on the boards won't help their cause any more.

Note that I'm not having a go at people who are making a point of it on the boards, it's just that another 50 people discussing the dispute in public isn't going to get them paid any faster if at all.

[GGZOLA]

AMAZING, for pete's sake can we get any update on what this book is doing, how they are going about their business, are they looking for a buyer, etc.. ive given up on TOW's remarks of "we should hear some news within the day or tomorrow" routine. Please, any news at all good or bad, bless you.

[yokspot]

Taco, what would you have us do? Where else are we supposed to discuss the matter and look for feedback?

It's not about expediating anything, it's about trying to esablish what the hell is happening / will happen / might happen.

[tacomax]

Taco, what would you have us do? Where else are we supposed to discuss the matter and look for feedback?

Doug said that there is probably only a dozen players owed money owed by NJ since there were only a dozen people posting about NJ on the boards. I just said there were a probabaly a lot more and just because someone isn't posting doesn't mean they're not owed. I specifically tried to make clear that there's nothing wrong in posting, just that there will be a lot more lurkers in the background.

[isetcap]

Taco, you are so mean. You're a mean, mean person. Very mean.

(How about that for an attack on personal character?!)

[tacomax]

isetcap, that was very poor. Take a lesson from the internet hardmen in the Private Forum.

[isetcap]

isetcap, that was very poor. Take a lesson from the internet hardmen in the Private Forum.

Speaking of which, what the hell did you do with Natrass? You must have really insulted him this time.

[tacomax]

I've heard that he's spending some time at Her Majesty's pleasure for felonies against felines.

[isetcap]

I've heard that he's spending some time at Her Majesty's pleasure for felonies against felines.

That's probably accurate. Poor kitty...

[jzila]

so it seems that bet4aces closed the doors

[Uncle B]

supposedly they only took in 300k in deposits the whole time in business and lost 1.2 M on that, earlier SBR John said that was almost impossible, I agree. That must include all expenses.

I really think most of those 84 accounts have almost nothing in them.

i think the 1.2 million was just another fabricated number, to make things appear bigger than they are...for whatever reason.

i mean, why lie about the number of funded accounts?

it wasn't even close to 300..

only thing i can imagine, is a bloated number to take to a perspective bailout shop.


hopefully, SBR will get wind of what shops are "stepping in" for the bet4aces/tow victims, and if they are shady operations, maybe things can be salvaged before too many people jump in.


hate to be so skeptical, but, after the tow/betonstars/bookthebet decbacle, i've come to expect the worst.

[yokspot]

For Bet4Aces, Bet Royal:

http://www.towforum.com/online-sportbooks/21886-royal-sports-will-offering-individual-relief-plans-bet4aces-players.html

[Uncle B]

For Bet4Aces, Bet Royal:

http://www.towforum.com/online-sport...s-players.html

what a scam.

[yokspot]

You think that's a scam? I just posted this at TOW. Read this and then you'll know a "scam":

OK, WTF is this??????????

I was just on the phone with Charlie, the Bet4Aces manager - I wanted to clarify the current Aces situation. What he has just come out with is absolutely MIND-blowing:

Charlie has said that, while my registered address is the UK, my ACTUAL physical address is Vancouver, Canada. He says furthermore that my IP address - 209.89.100.124 - is the same IP address as used by a San Diego or Vietnamese "syndicate". Syndicate of what, I have no idea. Anyway, because of my "fraudulent" (I think this must be the allegation??) status, because of my part in this Vietnamese syndicate, I will not be paid. I will have my deposits returned in September.

Exactly WHAT THE **** is going on here? My registered location is exactly the same as my physical location - southern England. I do not live in "Vancouver, Canada", nor do I belong to a "Vietnamese syndicate" - although for the life of me I do not understand what this "syndicate" is supposed to have done.

WTF is this about? The reason I phoned Charlie was that, after our several courteous exchanges at SBR, I wanted his input on Bet4Aces's status. I figured he would give it to me straight, as he always came across as straight and honest. Instead, I have been accused of something which I don't even understand, and of living in a country I have never actually even VISITED!

Oh, and one detail I picked up: apparently, I am posting from the same location as a player with the name "Guian" or "Guien" or something. This "Guyan" is part of this Vietnamese "syndicate".

In all honesty, there are not too many Vietnamese in my street. Or my town. Or, for that matter, my county.

Charlie also says that Roberto, and Bill and John from SBR, all know about this "syndicate". This "syndicate" that apparently I am a member of.

WTF??????????

Roberto, do you have a clue about this? This is total insanity.

Putting two and two together here, I would guess that this "syndicate" allegation is simply being used to screw players. Player has large balance = player is a fraudster and will therefore not be paid.

Jesus, Roberto, how did you ever hook up with this sh**? I have never been accused of fraud before in all my years online gambling, sportsbooks and otherwise. I can give the names of other respected industry people who have assisted me. You've assisted me (Rich Coast). Bill Dozer has assisted me (Sportingbet). Everyone who's had any dealings with me knows I am who I say I am and that I do not cheat. Every single f**king person. Now I get this s**t from these crooks.

And what concerns me here is this: Roberto has said that this "syndicate" will not be bailed by Royal; Charlie has said I am part of this "syndicate"; I think you can all work out the rest.

F**k this, I am pissed off now. Call me a f**king crook and you'd better have your facts straight first.

Unreal.

As far a I'm concerned, Charlie, who seemed to have built up some goodwill here, has just bust it all. He is a lying crook, just like the clipjoint sportsbook he was managing are lying crooks.

Charlie, since I know you're still there and will read this: you have any comment to make? You have any justification for the line of dirty lying bulls**t you just fed me on the phone, you scumbag?

You want me to take a picture of me at the computer, sitting in front of a window facing a quiet southern UK street, quite some little distance from Vancouver and without too many "Vietnamese" in the immediate, and non-immediate, vicinty?

You total scumbag, Charlie. I sure as hell called you all wrong.

[SBR_John]

Sad. Yokspot I think you need to relax. Yes, you have been scammed and I know that is a terrible feeling. I started SBR after I got scammed.

Roberto is the master of spin as I'm sure you have seen me and others say before.

At this point I think you need to bring some closure to this scam. They are not going to pay you. Rob and the rest of the scammer gang will get whats coming to them someday. But for you, its time to move on.

I'm sorry you were put through this.

[k68los]

Sad. Yokspot I think you need to relax. Yes, you have been scammed and I know that is a terrible feeling. I started SBR after I got scammed.

Roberto is the master of spin as I'm sure you have seen me and others say before.

At this point I think you need to bring some closure to this scam. They are not going to pay you. Rob and the rest of the scammer gang will get whats coming to them someday. But for you, its time to move on.

I'm sorry you were put through this.

John,

This is what I posted on the other thread.....Unfortunately, Mr. ******* feels that this evidence is not conclusive.....No problem......I respect that but my recommendation was in light to this inforamtion.

Now, you know that you can play with IP addresses but this is the IP coming from the Neteller deposit and the Mac address you can't fool.

Here's what I wrote:

Mr. ******,

I will be more than glad to go into details with you as to the evidences in your case.

First of all, due to these evidences I have recommended that the Company return your deposits when the money becomes available. I believe that under these circumstances I am being fair with my recommendation. With all due respect.

Now, please review the following information:

Search results for: 209.89.100.124


OrgName: TELUS Communications Inc.
OrgID: TACE
Address: #2600 *********
City: *******
StateProv: BC
PostalCode: V5N-4N2
Country: CA

This is the IP through which you came into our system and made your deposit through Neteller.

Your physical address that you gave us indicated that you were located in the UK.

Now, the Mac address that this company's system picked up was the same Mac address as to other player from the same syndicated group.....Nguyen/Tran syndicated group.

My recommendation to the company is that since this happened to please return the deposits made by all of you. I recommended this because it is the best way to say "we want to be fair".

Yes, I am leaving at the end of this month but I have already appointed someone to take care of the payout status for all of you.

My respects to you sir.

I edited out names.

[Uncle B]

You think that's a scam? I just posted this at TOW. Read this and then you'll know a "scam":



As far a I'm concerned, Charlie, who seemed to have built up some goodwill here, has just bust it all. He is a lying crook, just like the clipjoint sportsbook he was managing are lying crooks.

Charlie, since I know you're still there and will read this: you have any comment to make? You have any justification for the line of dirty lying bulls**t you just fed me on the phone, you scumbag?

You want me to take a picture of me at the computer, sitting in front of a window facing a quiet southern UK street, quite some little distance from Vancouver and without too many "Vietnamese" in the immediate, and non-immediate, vicinty?

You total scumbag, Charlie. I sure as hell called you all wrong.

yep, it's a scam.


and, roberto is leading the way here, not b4a..you really think they devised this garbage on their own?

Putting two and two together here, I would guess that this "syndicate" allegation is simply being used to screw players. Player has large balance = player is a fraudster and will therefore not be paid.


thats exactly whats going on.


now, have you inquired about the $2500 you have comming from the tow 'funds safety' program?


you should be demanding payment.

[SBR_John]

Charlie,
This came up long after 4aces was broke and looking for any way to reduce who they pay.

You can not take this man's money and let him bet and when he wins claim he is a syndicate. That's worse than BetOnSports's scam.

The man sent in good funds, bet the lines you offered and won. Was he sharp as can be? Probably. Was he a syndicate? No but it makes no difference.

Charlie do the right thing. These Bet4aces guys and roberto are taking you down with them. You are a good guy Charlie, don't be as evil as the stiffs you are surrounded by. SBR will help you get another job but you can't hurt players like this. Just tell the truth.

[chano]

Yokspot, I am sure SBR will help you out. If Bet4Aces is really screwing you, I am sure John or Bill will get you bailed out somewhere. They take care of there guys, just ask them. They will do all they can..

[yokspot]

Some moderator please get my name out of that post! This is an unbelievable breach of privacy!

This is beyond belief. I have deposited from the same physical location at every sportsbook and every casino I have ever played at in five years of play. Ask Pinnacle if they have a problem. Ask Canbet. As BetJam. Ask Bowmans. Ask ANY sportsbook or casino I have ever played at if they had a problem with my deposits.

I have never seen bullsh*t like this before, and I've seen a lot of bullsh*t in online gambling. I live, play and post in southern England. I have never played or deposited with Neteller from ANY other location - Neteller immediately locks accounts when you try to access them from abroad, I know this when I logged in one time from Glasgow and was immediately locked out.

I have NEVER, not once, ever, been accused of fraud. I am now being accused of fraud - by an insolvent book. What an unreal scam this is.

EDIT: Thanks for the edit above, John.

[Uncle B]

Yokspot, I am sure SBR will help you out. If Bet4Aces is really screwing you, I am sure John or Bill will get you bailed out somewhere. They take care of there guys, just ask them. They will do all they can..

unfortunately, it's not just b4a's that is scamming yokspot and others.

this is a joint robbery in progress, and tow is leading the way.


yokspot, what reasoning has tow given you, for not paying you the $2,500 you have comming from the 'funds safety' program?

[chano]

Books have gone down in the past and they will go down in the future. The players are what is important here, forget about blaming certain forums, nobody is immuned to this. TOW is bailing them out slowly, so this is a good thing. He got me a bail from Legendz yesterday with my No Juice balance. Man came through..