God question

[reno cool]

Someone already mentioned that the main motivator for people to find salvation, is to escape hell.

I'm not going to compromise my non-beliefs over a fear factor. That makes you more guilty than the blasphemers.

I think its the other way around. Its used as a way to make oneself feel important, better then someone else. And justify horrendous deeds.

To those arguing the question of time. There is no time.

There are the deeds and contribution of those that came before us.----thats my religion

[MoneySportsGuy]

Peace be with you. I bet everything I own that this thread will solve nothing.

Your probably right, but its good entertainment and discussion

[MoneySportsGuy]

How many gamblers are atheists and what is your reason for your declaration?

[slacker00]

Well then tell us where the conditions for the big bang came from.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_bang_theory#Underlying_assumptions

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_Big_Bang#Augustinian_era

I'm not sure why you can't find this information on your own.

BTW, I get $20/hr to teach science, so if you want more lessons on how science works, I expect to start receiving some type of compensation.

Science is what it is. Religion is what it is. Heck, you can believe pink elephants are constantly circling your head, if that meets your fancy. The human mind isn't necessarily hard-wired to correlate perfectly with material reality, meaning we can believe any number of bizarre things. Science is simply a reflection of our best understanding based on repeatable observation and logical implications thereof.

[Dazzez]

I think its the other way around. Its used as a way to make oneself feel important, better then someone else. And justify horrendous deeds.

As put by H.L. Mencken, “God is the immemorial refuge of the incompetent, the helpless, the miserable. They find not only sanctuary in His arms, but also a kind of superiority, soothing to their macerated egos: He will set them above their betters.”

[slacker00]

As put by H.L. Mencken, “God is the immemorial refuge of the incompetent, the helpless, the miserable. They find not only sanctuary in His arms, but also a kind of superiority, soothing to their macerated egos: He will set them above their betters.”

I'm not so pessimistic about God. God is all powerful, all knowing, all caring. God picks us up if we get down and knocks us down when we get too big. God is always there whether we recognize it or not.





I like to think of God as a walking stick as I hike the hills of life.

My walking stick can help me balance as I hike on a tricky bit of rocks. My walking stick can give me leverage as I hike up a steep hill. My walking stick can help me brake as I go down a steep downhill. My walking stick may even help me defend myself against a hazard, such as a stray dog. Heck, I may even leave my walking stick behind for certain hikes either because I forgot it or figured I don't need it.

Similarly, I suppose I could use my walking stick to attack people, physically. I could use my stick to break windows, destroy property, vandalize, etc. I could hold my stick high in front of an angry mob to demonstrate leadership or any other message I wanted to forward. Just because I am known as the guy "holding the stick" doesn't give me the authority to speak on behalf of the stick or theorize about the moral philosophy represented by the stick.

The stick is just a stick, in the end. I don't see my walking stick as any kind of moral compass.



Similarly, I see God as a-moral, meaning any moralizing about God is purely a human construction. Sure, I have personal feelings of right and wrong, but I don't draw those feelings from God or religion. To me, God is above the pettiness of mortal moralizing.

[HeeeHAWWWW]

In order for the Big Bang theory to take place, SOMETHING had to already be ... why can't we inquire what came before and, more importantly, where it came from?

Time itself did not exist until after the Big Bang, therefore your question makes no sense. That was my point :-)

[BeatTheJerk]

All I know is alot of you muthaphucka's are going to HELL ! PS : have a lovely day with your plays !

[Richkas]

If Jesus is the son of God who is his mother before he was sent to earth in 0 AD?

They say in the Bible that he sent his son to earth to save people. That means he has another mother if he was sent and is the son of God.

Religion is just a brainwashing.

People cant handle death.

[slacker00]

Religion is just a brainwashing.

People cant handle death.

They want us to think we can't handle death. That's where the fear of Hell comes into play.

It's more about social order & control. Ever heard of the King James Bible? King James rewrote the Bible back in the day to make it easier for him to control his subjects. Pretty blatent, isn't it? Church service was the Rush Limbaugh of the middle ages.

[moneyline]

You can't handle death. Death handles you.

[tacomax]

.

[moneyline]

Wow. It is amazing what people who choose to be obtuse will do for entertainment. Not particularly intelligent, but sadly predictable.

[tacomax]

Is this one worth a titter?

[ZBOIZ]

If Jesus is the son of God who is his mother before he was sent to earth in 0 AD?

They say in the Bible that he sent his son to earth to save people. That means he has another mother if he was sent and is the son of God.

God created Jesus just like he created Adam and Eve!

[bigugly]

Science is what it is. Religion is what it is. Heck, you can believe pink elephants are constantly circling your head, if that meets your fancy. The human mind isn't necessarily hard-wired to correlate perfectly with material reality, meaning we can believe any number of bizarre things. Science is simply a reflection of our best understanding based on repeatable observation and logical implications thereof.

Well said.

[Matt Rain]

Is this one worth a titter?

I laughed at both. I'm going to hell - not!

[bigugly]

* An absolutely perfect being is a good, benevolent being.
* So God is benevolent.
* So God would not deceive me and would not permit me to error without giving me a way to correct my errors.

I don't agree with other parts of the argument anyway, but wondering why you think an "absolutely perfect being" would be good and benevolent.

[losturmarbles]

Alright, first I need a preface. I don't see why any of us bother with this thread, because who would even want a guy like Pavy to find salvation? I know that as a Christian, I should want to see everyone achieve eternal harmony with God in heaven. As a pragmatist, though, I think God expects some people to be atheists and that's how he keeps the creeps and assholes out of His masterwork. Just sayin'...

Now, after going through all five pages I was just going to never admit that I wasted 15 minutes with this drivel, but I was staggered to see that no one had provided a condensed version of René Descartes' ontological argument. If you're going to argue the existence of God then let us at least avail ourselves of the thought processes of those who went before us. It's not like this SBR thread is the first time anyone has ever requested, and then received, an ontological argument based on reason. Keep in mind that we're dealing with metaphysics here, so "black & white" answers aren't really possible.

Let's start with the appropriate translation of Descartes' Meditations on First Philosophy, written in 1641. Even though I have a fondness for Latin, I'll spare you the original and provide a reasonable translation.

"But if the mere fact that I can produce from my thought the idea of something that entails everything which I clearly and distinctly perceive to belong to that thing really does belong to it, is not this a possible basis for another argument to prove the existence of God? Certainly, the idea of God, or a supremely perfect being, is one that I find within me just as surely as the idea of any shape or number. And my understanding that it belongs to his nature that he always exists is no less clear and distinct than is the case when I prove of any shape or number that some property belongs to its nature"

Now, I know some will fault me for citing other work here, when I could summarize it myself, but since I don't know how many will even ponder what I write here, I'll just cite Wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meditat...rst_Philosophy

Here's the summary most eloquently provided there:

Argument 1

1. Something cannot come from nothing.
2. The cause of an idea must have at least as much formal reality as the idea has objective reality.
3. I have in me an idea of God. This idea has infinite objective reality.
4. I cannot be the cause of this idea, since I am not an infinite and perfect being. I don't have enough formal reality. Only an infinite and perfect being could cause such an idea.
5. So God — a being with infinite formal reality — must exist (and be the source of my idea of God).
6. An absolutely perfect being is a good, benevolent being.
7. So God is benevolent.
8. So God would not deceive me and would not permit me to error without giving me a way to correct my errors.

Argument 2

1. I exist.
2. My existence must have a cause.
3. The cause must be either:

a) myself
b) my always having existed
c) my parents
d) something less perfect than God
e) God

4. Not a. If I had created myself, I would have made myself perfect.
5. Not b. This does not solve the problem. If I am a dependent being, I need to be continually sustained by another.
6. Not c. This leads to an infinite regress.
7. Not d. The idea of perfection that exists in me cannot have originated from a non-perfect being.
8. Therefore, e. God exists.


Please take time to consider these concepts carefully, as we're dealing with very heavy material here. If this post bears fruit, I will be more than happy to take it further.

i dont know how i stumbled across this thread, but i thought it deserved a bump.

funny how both rs and hedgehog are both christians, yet hate each other. u2 are suppose to be brothers!

rs-
i appreciate your post here, i believe in a creator (ie god), not that i know what god is. but how do you let this belief justify believing dogma that was shaped over the last 2000 years? how does believing in god become believing in man as god?

[RonPaul2008]

God is dead and no one cares If there is a hell i'll see you there

[Robyn]

So if God is dead, as you say, does that mean that you believe that there is or WAS a God?

[d2bets]

Best fairy tale ever told.

[moneyline]

People like Pavy, Robyn and Bread believe they are their own personal god(s) ... they feel that they are the alpha and omega. How disappointed they must be, waking up every day and seeing the multitude of frailties and weaknesses their god(s) possess ...

Well, each is about halfway done with their reign. Soon they'll find out they weren't the true god(s) and they'll meet the real one. Oops.

[Bread]

Hi Moneyline! God I love it when you come around.

Do you think when I go to heaven that I'll still get erections? If there are no massive erections in heaven, I have no interest.

Get back to me ASAP.

[Bread]

Bump for Mathcom so we don't have to rehash this retarded topic all over again.

[Willie Bee]

x + 1 = 4
x = 4 - 1
x = 3

You lose. Pay up.

If X = 3, then X also = 2.99999999999999999999999 (and on and on and on with the 9's). How can 2.9999999999999999999 ever equal 3?

[NFLMAN]

There's overwhelming evidence that the Bible is a sham. Politics of fear, just like the falsehoods from our news media. The basic intent was to instill the fear of a God in the common man.

Was it a good idea?

[Ganchrow]

If X = 3, then X also = 2.99999999999999999999999 (and on and on and on with the 9's). How can 2.9999999999999999999 ever equal 3?

		Let x = 2.9999999999999999999... So: 10x = 10 * 2.9999999999999999999... 10x = 29.9999999999999999999... 10x - x = 29.9999999999999999999... - 2.9999999999999999999... 9x = 27 x = 3

[mathdotcom]

Now we know what Ganch does late at night...

[tacomax]

		At least he doesn't spend all night searching for (and possibly jacking off to) random jjgold posts on the internet.

[Dark Horse]

God can definitely prove that 1+1 = 3. Duality, after all, is really triality.

But in any case, it doesn't matter what we believe. Man is a master in self-hypnosis. More interesting would be a state of consciousness in which all belief is destroyed.

A God must, by definition, be indestructible. So if you want to find God, destroy everything.

[necro]

I'm not so pessimistic about God. God is all powerful, all knowing, all caring. God picks us up if we get down and knocks us down when we get too big. God is always there whether we recognize it or not...
.

Yeah sure.. That is why we have got wars, diesease, earthquakes,tornados...Can somebody explain me why would god allow this if he is really soo caring?? YOU CAN'T EXPLAIN BECAUSE IT DOES NOT EXIST!

People should start realizing that all this is work of their 'lovely god'. But no, we are so ****in blind that if something bad happen, liek we've got car crash and we blindly say: Thanks God that I'm still alive. Instead you should be cursing god that manipulate your car and destroy it.

Dumb ****s

Especially you americans, blindly religious people. Nowhere in the world, except USA, scientology could not start, or creationism which is even bigger joke)

[MainEventOrBust]

If Jesus is the son of God who is his mother before he was sent to earth in 0 AD?

They say in the Bible that he sent his son to earth to save people. That means he has another mother if he was sent and is the son of God.

Ask Yahoo Answers. They have theology specialists eagerly awaiting troll questions like this.

[tlk23]

If you believe in god you are a ****ing moron. Go watch Bill Maher's Religilous. Great movie.

[pimike]

If you believe in god you are a ****ing moron. Go watch Bill Maher's Religilous. Great movie.

I guess that makes you a FOOL