Pokerstars is a programming ripoff, intended to favor the underdog

[A's Fan]

k13 do you keep track of any of the times you win aa vs 22 for example?

[k13]

I'm amazing, just woke up btw, lets have the usual start and continue where we left off


Dealt to Hero [Kc Ah]
Hero: raises and is all-in
flyshion: shows [As Ts]
*** FLOP *** [Th 8c 2s]
*** TURN *** [Th 8c 2s] [3h]
*** RIVER *** [Th 8c 2s 3h] [9d]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Hero: shows [Kc Ah] (high card Ace)
flyshion: shows [As Ts] (a pair of Tens)

[k13]

It don't take long

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero [Kh Ks]
Hero: raises and is all-in
DPOLLINI: shows [Jh Jc]
*** FLOP *** [Js 7d Th]
*** TURN *** [Js 7d Th] [Qc]
*** RIVER *** [Js 7d Th Qc] [6d]
*** SHOW DOWN ***

Hero: shows [Kh Ks] (a pair of Kings)
DPOLLINI: shows [Jh Jc] (three of a kind, Jacks)

[k13]

k13 do you keep track of any of the times you win aa vs 22 for example?

I have over a million hands in PokerTracker 3 but I'm not sure if there is a way to find some so specific, maybe there is because its a good program but I would have to play around with it.

Pocket Queens are pretty much a coin flip vs random hand, yeah gotta love that

Sample of 5000 QQ's

[k13]

other sites are just as rigged, playing at Pinny , have AA vs K10

turn 10 river 10

Once I saw the first ten, I already knew.

[BarkingToad]

Now that k13 is giving numerous examples, where are the shills now that keep defending online poker? Does anyone ever notice the outrageous number of action flops that you don't see nearly as frequently live.

[Czu81]

Just withdrawed my bankroll from Pokerstars. Dealt 4 time AA lost 3 of them preflop all in. AA<55, K10o, K6o then AK<QK and finally KK<J10s all of them was in the money bubble or before the Final Table (180 man turbos)

[sinmiedo]

what is your opinion on REal Deal Poker....is any difference?

[B1GER1C828]

<3 threads that say online poker is rigged...stfu with it already.

[poker_dummy101]

I have over a million hands in PokerTracker 3 but I'm not sure if there is a way to find some so specific, maybe there is because its a good program but I would have to play around with it.

Pocket Queens are pretty much a coin flip vs random hand, yeah gotta love that

Sample of 5000 QQ's

there is your problem right there.

[Indecent]

Now that k13 is giving numerous examples, where are the shills now that keep defending online poker? Does anyone ever notice the outrageous number of action flops that you don't see nearly as frequently live.

K13 has already stated he has 1million hands in his database, yet hasn't presented numbers or a database that shows the results he is experiencing fall out of the normal range expected. Anyone can select individual hands, but it's hardly evidence of anything.

At most he has an hour of work ahead of him (or he could send his db to someone else) to analyze the database and present his findings. A chance to produce some sort of tangible evidence that people would actually take seriously. And yet, this hasn't happened.

I may be weird, but if I was sitting on a million+ hands that could potentially be the first blow to prove online poker is rigged, I know I would just complain about it on forums and then continue to play anyway. That seems logical.

[Doc JS]

I am amazed at the legs this thread has had...

As Indecent said, if you think it's rigged...DON'T PLAY !!!

DOC

[muldoon]

I may be weird, but if I was sitting on a million+ hands that could potentially be the first blow to prove online poker is rigged, I know I would just complain about it on forums and then continue to play anyway. That seems logical.

Exactly.

[mihi4]

Just withdrawed my bankroll from Pokerstars. Dealt 4 time AA lost 3 of them preflop all in. AA<55, K10o, K6o then AK<QK and finally KK<J10s all of them was in the money bubble or before the Final Table (180 man turbos)

i totally agree with you>>>lots of time i lose big hands and win on my week ones...stupid thing

[daneblazer]

http://www.evplusplus.com/poker_tools/variance_simulator/

[bigdog3580]

I'm 1 week into a 1 month Chat Ban on Pokerstars for cussing out lucky fuks with the shit mentioned here happening to me.
I lost with AA like 3 times in one tourney and that was it. Then the support gives you some bullshit how this happens to everyone. "F" that. Full Tilt isnt any better IMHO. I like UB the best, but we know what went on there. I think UB is more legit now that that crap got put out in the open. Hopefully PStars will get burned and someone will find out there BS software is friggin' rigged.

[k13]

I'm 1 week into a 1 month Chat Ban on Pokerstars for cussing out lucky fuks with the shit mentioned here happening to me.
I lost with AA like 3 times in one tourney and that was it. Then the support gives you some bullshit how this happens to everyone. "F" that. Full Tilt isnt any better IMHO. I like UB the best, but we know what went on there. I think UB is more legit now that that crap got put out in the open. Hopefully PStars will get burned and someone will find out there BS software is friggin' rigged.

LOL, I've had my chat banned 15 times already. Once for 6 months.

[k13]

Took a little break, 3 outer, 2 outer, 3 outer, 3 outer.

Only played like 15 minutes, done for the day.

The worst part, is you know they are coming. I wish I could bet on them.

[daneblazer]

If you knew it would happen and wish you could be on them, why did you play?

It's like these guys who call off their stack with a pair because they knew that they were beat but they "just had to see it."

[k13]

If you knew it would happen and wish you could be on them, why did you play?

It's like these guys who call off their stack with a pair because they knew that they were beat but they "just had to see it."

I'm talking about once you see the hands pre-flop, can't do shit once the cards are in the air, can you?

I guess I should fold when I'm a 70-90% fave right?

[iwant2lrn]

I don't know about PS being a ripoff but I will say that it does seem to favor the underdog compared to Full Tilt. They are way too many straights, full houses, and flushes in any given period. Real play does not seem to be that luck.

[bigdog3580]

Playing the $3 rebuy right now on PS. Made it past add-on
Blinds 100-200.
I have around $8500
Fking moron first to act goes all in for $5000. I got dealt AAon the button. I just call
SB and BB fold. UTG has 7-7. FLop 7-9-6.

FK I lose. wtf. Same bullshit. different day. Playing off my $40 I have left, then I am done with PS.

FK Pokerstars that piece of shit site.

I still am in a chat ban so I cant even tell the fk who went all in with 7-7, he's a lucky fk.

[bigdog3580]

Icing on the cake to fuking get koed out of the same tourney as above
Fking guys gets a 2 outer on river.
I know I should have probably not won but preflop we were almost 50-50.
Check out the hand.
PS is so much bullshit its not even funny.

Seat 9: Ross63 (5525 in chips)
bigdog3580: posts the ante 25
passthesu007: posts the ante 25
badplains: posts the ante 25
woody1234321: posts the ante 25
KngCopyCat: posts the ante 25
carloochi: posts the ante 25
physhinbuddy: posts the ante 25
USN3rdgen: posts the ante 25
Ross63: posts the ante 25
carloochi: posts small blind 125
physhinbuddy: posts big blind 250
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to bigdog3580 [9d Ah]
USN3rdgen: folds
Ross63: raises 5250 to 5500 and is all-in
bigdog3580: calls 3665 and is all-in
passthesu007: folds
badplains: folds
woody1234321: folds
KngCopyCat: folds
carloochi: folds
physhinbuddy: folds
Uncalled bet (1835) returned to Ross63
*** FLOP *** [Qh Qd 8s]
*** TURN *** [Qh Qd 8s] [8c]
*** RIVER *** [Qh Qd 8s 8c] [6s]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Ross63: shows [6h 6c] (a full house, Sixes full of Queens)
bigdog3580: shows [9d Ah] (two pair, Queens and Eights)
Ross63 collected 7930 from pot
bigdog3580 finished the tournament in 1744th place
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 7930 | Rake 0
Board [Qh Qd 8s 8c 6s]
Seat 1: bigdog3580 showed [9d Ah] and lost with two pair, Queens and Eights
Seat 2: passthesu007 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: badplains folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: woody1234321 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: KngCopyCat (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: carloochi (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 7: physhinbuddy (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 8: USN3rdgen folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: Ross63 showed [6h 6c] and won (7930) with a full house, Sixes full of Queens

[daneblazer]

I don't mean to bust your balls, but that's a pretty loose call. He's shoving UTG + 1 and you call with A9s. you are a coin flip there at the very best. Even short stacked, I think you can wait instead of calling there.

[bigdog3580]

I don't mean to bust your balls, but that's a pretty loose call. He's shoving UTG + 1 and you call with A9s. you are a coin flip there at the very best. Even short stacked, I think you can wait instead of calling there.

I know, i was already on tilt though losing AA vs. 7-7. Its just the point on PS, when its your time to lose, its your time to lose.

[bigdog3580]

Heres my AA loser hand that tilted me. I could have had a nice cushion.

PokerStars Game #47945524510: Tournament #325010921, $3.00+$0.30 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level VI (100/200) - 2010/08/09 21:41:53 ET
Table '325010921 246' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: bigdog3580 (8320 in chips)
Seat 2: passthesu007 (6625 in chips)
Seat 3: badplains (5845 in chips)
Seat 4: woody1234321 (4950 in chips)
Seat 5: KngCopyCat (10355 in chips)
Seat 6: carloochi (15705 in chips)
Seat 7: physhinbuddy (9720 in chips)
Seat 8: USN3rdgen (6050 in chips)
Seat 9: tlaniado22 (8825 in chips)
passthesu007: posts small blind 100
badplains: posts big blind 200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to bigdog3580 [Ad Ac]
woody1234321: raises 4750 to 4950 and is all-in
KngCopyCat: folds
carloochi: folds
physhinbuddy: folds
USN3rdgen: folds
tlaniado22: folds
bigdog3580: calls 4950
passthesu007: folds
badplains: folds
*** FLOP *** [7s 9h 6s]
*** TURN *** [7s 9h 6s] [3d]
*** RIVER *** [7s 9h 6s 3d] [2d]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
woody1234321: shows [7d 7h] (three of a kind, Sevens)
bigdog3580: shows [Ad Ac] (a pair of Aces)
woody1234321 collected 10200 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 10200 | Rake 0
Board [7s 9h 6s 3d 2d]
Seat 1: bigdog3580 (button) showed [Ad Ac] and lost with a pair of Aces
Seat 2: passthesu007 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: badplains (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: woody1234321 showed [7d 7h] and won (10200) with three of a kind, Sevens
Seat 5: KngCopyCat folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: carloochi folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: physhinbuddy folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: USN3rdgen folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: tlaniado22 folded before Flop (didn't bet)

[eightballer41]

That's definitely not what I would call 'favoring' the underdog, but I have to admit, playing with AA's online makes me nervous since I feel like it's a 50-50 shot of getting busted by some cheap hand.

Try having AAs and the guy hitting a flush when four cards of the same suit (that you don't have) come out onto the board.... now THAT is what make's me go nuts. Quit online poker after like 2 deposits...never did sit well with me.

[k13]

Playing the $3 rebuy right now on PS. Made it past add-on
Blinds 100-200.
I have around $8500
Fking moron first to act goes all in for $5000. I got dealt AAon the button. I just call
SB and BB fold. UTG has 7-7. FLop 7-9-6.

FK I lose. wtf. Same bullshit. different day. Playing off my $40 I have left, then I am done with PS.

FK Pokerstars that piece of shit site.

I still am in a chat ban so I cant even tell the fk who went all in with 7-7, he's a lucky fk.

99% of people can't/won't fold any pocket pair, 77, that's already a monster, its like AA.

Wsop final table, 33, All in, Little Pocket pairs = AA these days.

[bigdog3580]

These are just examples from yesterday. Everyday I play I get beat with the best hand. I dont know how anyone ever wins.

[k13]

big dog, you've only played like a 100 games, wait till you play a 10000 then you'll know what bad beats are lol


Start today, flop top set rainbow, shove shove lose, rive for straight, I knew I was already in trouble on the flop

Next, flop nut straight, shove shove shove, lose obviously to flush. I was going to fold on the flop but that'd be silly.

next QQ SB vs BB, Flop xQK He has KK

that's in 3 hands, I won't see that in 3 years live.

[k13]

These are just examples from yesterday. Everyday I play I get beat with the best hand. I dont know how anyone ever wins.

You need lots of volume to overcome variance.

[bigdog3580]

I've been playing online poker pretty much since the beginning. Party Poker to start. I know what bad beats are, just like the rest of us. And there is a time when it is just ridiculous.
There were PRO's saying it was just a variance when they were losing time after time(Matasow and Friehman) when they were on UB, look what happened there. Not saying it is happening on PS, but there is alot of bullshit going on there that makes you wonder. And as long as there were other places with problems, there will always be doubts until it is regulated.

[k13]

I've been playing online poker pretty much since the beginning. Party Poker to start. I know what bad beats are, just like the rest of us. And there is a time when it is just ridiculous. There were PRO's saying it was just a variance when they were losing time after time(Matasow and Friehman) when they were on UB, look what happened there. Not saying it is happening on PS, but there is alot of bullshit going on there that makes you wonder. And as long as there were other places with problems, there will always be doubts until it is regulated.

True, I would never trust it 100%.

I don't know how people can play for millions online, I guess they have too much money or they are just beyond degenerates.

[k13]

You get very far in a tourney and this is what always happens.

Dealt to Hero [Ac Qh]
balbeck70: raises 20855 to 22855 and is all-in
N4kai: raises 12765 to 35620 and is all-in
Hero: calls and is all-in

balbeck70: shows [Qd 9h]
N4kai: shows [As Jh]

*** FLOP *** [3s 6d 8h]
*** TURN *** [3s 6d 8h] [Tc]
*** RIVER *** [3s 6d 8h Tc] [Jc]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
balbeck70: shows [Qd 9h] (a straight, Eight to Queen)
N4kai: shows [As Jh] (a pair of Jacks)
Hero: shows [Ac Qh] (high card Ace)


That was so random.....

[BarkingToad]

I don't know about PS being a ripoff but I will say that it does seem to favor the underdog compared to Full Tilt. They are way too many straights, full houses, and flushes in any given period. Real play does not seem to be that luck.

This is exactly right. It is not uncommon to see 7 out of 8 hands win with at least 3 of a kind or usually better. Add to that the action flops where there are 2 or 3 other players involved in these who have big hands or big draws.