betphoenix problem!

[Peep]

Yes, that is a problem, since you had already once charged back in the same group of books.

Have you ever had to charge back any other books? If so, under what circumstances?

[ucbearcats1027]

no man, the only reason i charged back was because i was told i was getting a refund and i got tired of waiting for it to come which was dumb but i cant undo it now. But they still took my first deposit and i lost it and allowed me to deposit again 2 days later and place another wager so i think im entitled to the winnings maybe not all of it but the wager was already in play

[dlw902]

I, too, believe it sounds a little fishy that he just happens to be hitting a 4-team parlay and then you cancel his bet. His ********** to whatever book that was has nothing to do with betphoenix and if he really sent you an e-mail letting you know that he opened an account with betphoenix and his account wasn't blocked at that point, then he should be paid for that parlay. Curious but what "flagged" you to his account that night that he hit the parlay? There were no flags when he was losing money and his tough plays were winning at halftime, so it seems a little convenient. just my opinion.. I personally love bet phoenix... but this situation seems very sketchy.

[clarkd32]

How can we be sure your 13 yr old son didn't make the parlay wager?

I still can't believe you were able to scam sports-1 into giving you 3k back.

How did your son take his "punishment" for losing 6k?

[dlw902]

seriously, who cares about the whole 13 year old thing.. yet again, that was a completely different book.. I think we all know that that was a lie but yet again, IMO that has nothing to do with betphoenix.. The issue is does betphoenix really have the right to take his parlay away after it had already begun? I don't think so.. If they knew he had an account and let him lose 500 bucks earlier in the week, they should have let him ride out that parlay and then cancel his account if that is what they wanted to do.. not cancel it in the middle of it.

[clarkd32]

I think it is a huge factor when evaluating the credibility of someone. If they are going to lie and cheat once odds are they will do it again.

I've dealt with betmania (betphoenix) for a while now and done some pretty stupid things. Each time "RJ" has gone out of his way to do what he can.

Maybe uc should go play at creditwagering - that way if he loses he can just stiff them and not worry about having to do a ********** on his cc.

[bigboyfosho]

looks like everyone should stay away from this book, if you win they will find something wrong with ur account

[reno cool]

I would like to know how much money the player deposited into the first book. Did he simply deposit 6K lost and charged back or did he play there over a long time? Did he lose or win large amounts before the incident? I didn't think books excepted one time deposits of 6k from credit cards.

[reno cool]

I think it is a huge factor when evaluating the credibility of someone. If they are going to lie and cheat once odds are they will do it again.

I've dealt with betmania (betphoenix) for a while now and done some pretty stupid things. Each time "RJ" has gone out of his way to do what he can.

Maybe uc should go play at creditwagering - that way if he loses he can just stiff them and not worry about having to do a ********** on his cc.

Nobody's saying that he has a right to charge back money that was lost from his computer. (regardless who did it)
But as someone stated, if you're concerned about someones credibility evaluate it before booking the bet.
It seems to me the credibility lost by books when they refuse to honor a bet that's excepted is the biggest threat to their business.

[clarkd32]

But it wasn't a "bet" that is the point. When the customer has no intentions of paying if they lose it is not considered a "bet" in my opinion that is considered a "freeroll".

And in post 142 uc now says "so i think im entitled to the winnings maybe not all of it but the wager was already in play." Now uc is starting to change his tune and just try to get anything from BetPhoenix. hmm..... if I had made a legit bet and won I don't think I'd settle for less.

[dlw902]

clark... they guy had never had a ********** with betphoenix... the ********** was with a sisterbook. Regardless, if it is true that he told Richard that he was opening an account with betphoenix, and Richard did not block his account right away but allowed him to lose 500 dollars, then proceeded to allow him to redeposit... once it was noticed that he was about to hit that parlay that would cost phoenix 5000+, his bet was cancelled and they gave him back both of his deposits. I don't see anything fair about that, just my opinion though. To me, it just seems fishy.. seems like someone was waiting to flag it... if it looked like the parlay was going to lose though, would they have still flagged it at 9:06? I still would like to know why his account wasn't cancelled as soon as he e-mailed Richard and told him that he opened an account with Phoenix, even after they had all those problems with the sister book...

[clarkd32]

we will just have to agree to disagree on this situation.

good luck on your plays today.

clark

[ucbearcats1027]

clark... they guy had never had a ********** with betphoenix... the ********** was with a sisterbook. Regardless, if it is true that he told Richard that he was opening an account with betphoenix, and Richard did not block his account right away but allowed him to lose 500 dollars, then proceeded to allow him to redeposit... once it was noticed that he was about to hit that parlay that would cost phoenix 5000+, his bet was cancelled and they gave him back both of his deposits. I don't see anything fair about that, just my opinion though. To me, it just seems fishy.. seems like someone was waiting to flag it... if it looked like the parlay was going to lose though, would they have still flagged it at 9:06? I still would like to know why his account wasn't cancelled as soon as he e-mailed Richard and told him that he opened an account with Phoenix, even after they had all those problems with the sister book...

I would like to know the same thing. All my games had started and two were at halftime so i feel that my bet should stand and shouldn't be allowed to be canceled in the middle of games. If you would call betphoenix in the middle of a wager and said hey i would like to cancel it now, they would laugh at you. Yes I had a charge back with sports-1.com but I let richard know i had opened a betphoenix account and they let me deposit and lose 500 dollars two days prior so thats not right.

[ucbearcats1027]

even if they made me complete a rollover with the money i would of agreed but since they are sticking to saying there going to stiff me and the wager will remain canceled we will have to see what happens. the proper complaints have been filed

[durito]

Proper complaints?

You are a scam artist.

You took a shot and lost. Move on to your next scam.

[reno cool]

How are you so sure Durito?
You complain about books screwing with you, legitimately so.
I've been screwed by them in the past. Not too often thankfully.
That' s why I'm here.
This guy doesn't sound to me like a professional scam artist. If he was he probably wouldn't be here complaining.

[HeeeHAWWWW]

This guy doesn't sound to me like a professional scam artist. If he was he probably wouldn't be here complaining.

Did you read his story about ihis "13yr old son losing $6k in the casino"?

Then there's how his story "evolves" - check how at the beginning he denied making any ********** at all, then it was his bank had done it without him asking, and in recent posts he openly admits he did **********.

[St.Aquinas]

Did you read his story about ihis "13yr old son losing $6k in the casino"?

Then there's how his story "evolves" - check how at the beginning he denied making any ********** at all, then it was his bank had done it without him asking, and in recent posts he openly admits he did **********.

I can't believe his is still posting here. Amazing.

[ucbearcats1027]

you guys can say what you want honestly but what happened to my sports-1.com account has nothing to do with my betphoenix account . they accepted my deposits

[betpartners]

ubercats man you just cant be serious, your credibility is shot to pieces, your one of the reasons books can be become assholes with genuine punters because they get scammed so often by your type.

I make no apology for saying that either

some bookies are real mornic in their behaviour and so are some punters and you are one of those punters, betphoenix has enough issues with other things, their treatment of you is not one of them.

you just wont find much sympathy on here after your behaviour

This is indeed a classic thread, not often you see someone so busted

[Cloak & Dagger]

Proper complaints?

You are a scam artist.

You took a shot and lost. Move on to your next scam.

man I tell ya...

you are a shill for EVERY SINGLE OFFSHORE BOOK IN OPERATION

Ive NEVER seen one person DEFEND EVERY SINGLE OFFSHORE BOOK

I know you want the 3rd world countries to steal from americans while you dance in the street burning a flag but damn cool ranch...

give it rest and go put some mud on the roof of your hut

[Cloak & Dagger]

seriously, who cares about the whole 13 year old thing.. yet again, that was a completely different book.. I think we all know that that was a lie but yet again, IMO that has nothing to do with betphoenix.. The issue is does betphoenix really have the right to take his parlay away after it had already begun? I don't think so.. If they knew he had an account and let him lose 500 bucks earlier in the week, they should have let him ride out that parlay and then cancel his account if that is what they wanted to do.. not cancel it in the middle of it.

ya..who really is taking a shot at who

[durito]

man I tell ya...

you are a shill for EVERY SINGLE OFFSHORE BOOK IN OPERATION

Ive NEVER seen one person DEFEND EVERY SINGLE OFFSHORE BOOK

I know you want the 3rd world countries to steal from americans while you dance in the street burning a flag but damn cool ranch...

give it rest and go put some mud on the roof of your hut

Excuse me dipshit. I am for the player just about every time. Find me an instance where I am not and the consensus is that the player should be paid. Such a dispute does not exist.

I am a player. I want to see players get paid. My job is to take money from books not the other way around. I know it really bothers you at your $12 an hour job that someone in some third world country is taking all your money, but get over it.

In this case, the player, er scamer, took a shot and lost.

[betpartners]

Excuse me dipshit. I am for the player just about every time. Find me an instance where I am not and the consensus is that the player should be paid. Such a dispute does not exist.

I am a player. I want to see players get paid. My job is to take money from books not the other way around. I know it really bothers you at your $12 an hour job that someone in some third world country is taking all your money, but get over it.

In this case, the player, er scamer, took a shot and lost.

Agree 100%, guy is a scammer, got caught, end of

[dlw902]

he didn't scam betphoenix, so in reality, betphoenix scammed him. what went on at one book shouldn't effect the actions of another book, especially when like i said earlier, he deposited twice and it was never caught but when he rpetty much got to his third leg of the parlay, then the flag goes up and they cancel the account. I had planned to redeposit into betphoenix but after reading this story, I will not. Although he was not right in what he did to sports-1, that is a totally different situation. BetPhoenix IMO looks as though they were just trying to get out of paying that 5000+ that he won on the parlay, which is wrong. I don't care what he did to another book, you don't let a guy come in.. lose 500 bucks.. redeposit... get halfway through hitting a 4 team parlay and then "flag the account." This is very fishy business that is wrong. Richard has yet to explain why the account wasn't cancelled right away when he found out that ucbearcats opened one. To me it seems like phoenix was going to allow him to deposit all of the money and lose (to make back the money that sports-1 lost on the **********), but if he was about to win, they were going to cancel the account... which is poor business imo. If you knew he had an account and allowed him to deposit and bet, the bet SHOULD stand.

[baseballstud]

Here is my issue. How can betphoenix know it is going to win. Four team parlays don't exactly hit often. Of that parlay lost and they canceled it and refunded deposits would he be bitching? No. Even if two legs were done you still needed two more. Only way this is bad is if phoenix knew the outcome of the next two games before they started and for that they would need a delorean to go back to the future and get a sports almenac.

[dlw902]

This is just my opinion on the situation... at halftime.. LSU was leading by 5 (7 pt cushion on the play) and Illinois State was leading by 21 at halftime (21 pt cushion)... Oklahoma was playing Baylor.. Oklahoma beat Baylor earlier in the season by like 20.. so essentially, the 500 for 5k+ was going to come down to UNC -2 vs. Duke... I feel like Phoenix may have felt it was too risky to allow this parlay to stand so they cancelled the account. No, 4-team parlays do not hit often but when 2 legs look very good, then you have a 1-loss Oklahoma team left to play against a team they beat by 20 earlier in the year, then you are basically risking having to pay out all of that money on 1 game... thats just my opinion though.

[reno cool]

Here is my issue. How can betphoenix know it is going to win. Four team parlays don't exactly hit often. Of that parlay lost and they canceled it and refunded deposits would he be bitching? No. Even if two legs were done you still needed two more. Only way this is bad is if phoenix knew the outcome of the next two games before they started and for that they would need a delorean to go back to the future and get a sports almenac.

have they done this in the past? Refunded losing money this way? Some how I doubt it. If they have regularly returned losing bets than I would be ok with this.

[tomcowley]

I don't like what phoenix did, in general, but their additional refund of his first deposit was a pretty close match for the equity of the play at the time it got cancelled.

[Cloak & Dagger]

Excuse me dipshit. I am for the player just about every time. Find me an instance where I am not and the consensus is that the player should be paid. Such a dispute does not exist.

I am a player. I want to see players get paid. My job is to take money from books not the other way around. I know it really bothers you at your $12 an hour job that someone in some third world country is taking all your money, but get over it.

In this case, the player, er scamer, took a shot and lost.

blah blah blah

they took his $500 with NO PROBLEMS...

then right when he is about to sting em....NOW THERE IS A PROBLEM

go take a nap

[RJbetphoenix]

I stand by the decision that was made. The time line from email, to actual charge back is not a minute to minute item. We get the notice from 3rd party processors when they get it to us. each processor is different with regards to refunding, charging, amounts, acceptance etc.
Any of the posters here that are backing this gentleman, you are saying that as a business you would accept a bad charge or check from a client. You would give him a product knowing he would default along the way.

When he wins it gets worse...you get to pay him, and a few months later you get the charge back anyways. There is really no way to win here at all from our end. All of his charges are refunded because there is no point to it. Winning or losing bets here don't matter because these charges are all going to come back out at the end of the day

[dlw902]

I stand by the decision that was made. The time line from email, to actual charge back is not a minute to minute item. We get the notice from 3rd party processors when they get it to us. each processor is different with regards to refunding, charging, amounts, acceptance etc.
Any of the posters here that are backing this gentleman, you are saying that as a business you would accept a bad charge or check from a client. You would give him a product knowing he would default along the way.

When he wins it gets worse...you get to pay him, and a few months later you get the charge back anyways. There is really no way to win here at all from our end. All of his charges are refunded because there is no point to it. Winning or losing bets here don't matter because these charges are all going to come back out at the end of the day

If this is true then WHY did you take accept his deposit to begin with? I mean you guys not only accepted a deposit once, you accepted two of them. You knew that he had an account with betphoenix.. took his money first time around, he redeposited, was about to hit a parlay and then you decide to cancel his account and refund his deposit. Sorry but I think that is poor business. You can use this whole ********** thing as an excuse but I think most of us know that essentially, you didn't want to pay that 5000+ to someone who charged back a sisterbook... but as long as he was losing you were going to allow him to play. I can understand what you are saying about the chargebacks but YOU were the one that chose to let him play as long as he loses but if he wins, flag the account and give him his deposits back. Why did you not cancel his account when he initially signed up? This was handled completely wrong and I think you know it. The account should have been cancelled before any wagers were placed and you guys should honor the wagers that were placed since you did allow him to deposit twice and you allowed the wager to actually begin. If I called you and told you in the middle of a parlay that i wanted to cancel that wager, would you allow me to? You guys should have to follow the same rules.

[Boner_18]

You would give him a product knowing he would default along the way.

RJP, this statement is the problem. I understand that this was a case of overwhelming evidence that this particular player had a pattern of doing business/scamming so I agree w/ the disposition in this case.

However, this sort of reasoning can be abused to the detriment of the player. We knew player X was going to do something is simply a conclusion and w/o some sort of sound reasoning (which there undoubtedly was here) is a worthless statement. Where the line is drawn, the amount of evidence needed to "know" something is the battlefield, and the potential for abuse of knowledge is something I am concerned with.

[Justin7]

I don't like what phoenix did, in general, but their additional refund of his first deposit was a pretty close match for the equity of the play at the time it got cancelled.

I think this sums it up nicely. I might have handled the dispute differently at BetPhoenix, but if the net result was no change in equity at the time of cancellation, it's hard to call it a "hard foul". The book was trying to act fairly.

Betting your balance on a 10:1 Parlay... That is a classic freeroll tactic if you're planning a **********. Given this wager and the player's propensity to misstate facts, I'd give BetPhoenix a pass on this one.

[RJbetphoenix]

Justin,

Call me to 1-877-717-7747 ext. 1810.

Thanks,

Richard