athiest.
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I am a Christian
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The first 2 rebuttals are pretty good, but the last one is weak. Gates, Buffet, Cameron are douchbags and equating morality with charity is erroneous anyway.Comment -
I'm a double skeptic. Religion seems absurd in so many ways, but the presumptuous nature of science is just as bad. And the implications are even worse.
Going back to the Steve Harvey video---
yeah, maybe it explains how a star is born, but it doesn't explain where matter comes from originally. Where did the first gases, the first bits of matter come from?
That rebuttal is no better than rebutting the immaculate conception by giving a scientific run-down of human fertility/gestation. If there's no sperm, if she's a virgin, how the fuk did it happen? And I'm not saying it did. Definitely not. Just saying you can't explain it away by simply presenting a run down of how sex leads to pregnancy. If there's no cock, there's no baby. And there's no starburst without matter. You can't explain away God or Steve Harvey's gaseous ball argument simply by showing how a star is born. Well how the fukk did those gases get there? Where did they come from?
There's just no conclusive answer for that question. There's just not.
And why is that even a problem? There doesn't need to be. What's wrong with letting people just believe what they want to believe? Isn't that the whole damn reason we're not English in the first place? Isn't that the whole damned reason we became the greatest nation in the history of man and the envy of the world? Isn't that idea the number one thing all other free nations took from us? Why must we spend so much time trying to disprove what other people believe? Why is there this need to so bitterly stamp out other peoples' spiritual beliefs?No more of that talk, or I'll put the leeches on you.Comment -
madcap, what kind of almighty god just pisses out some gases??? The fukin bible says she created in 6 days now goddamnit, thats the way it fukin happened!!! I've been working on a 69 Mach I for 8 months & this bitch built an infinite universe in 6 days
oh yeah, I forgot, shes GOD
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oh yeah, the bible also says heavenly father
Very absurd to me that a GOD would be a man.
Sounds like this Best Seller was written by a man, maybe a kingComment -
jk rowling wrote Harry Potter books .
stephenie meyer wrote Twilight books .
obviously someone wrote the Bible too , it was 0 BC entertainment .Comment -
You silly atheists, always conflating any theism with moronic biblical literalism. What do you even do differently than religious people? Most of you behave within the same societal norms as theists, have virtually identical morality to Christians (in practice if not in theory). All this crap about the crusades and Bill O'Reilly is about as relevant to most Christians as crap about Stalin is to atheists.
There is scientific evidence that there is something going on besides a mundane physical universe. To me the implications of Schroedinger's cat, biofeedback, and the placebo effect indicate that the universe responds (in a limited way) to our intent. The discovery of DMT (an immensely powerful hallucinogen produced in our own brains, specifically in the gland that Descartes theorized was "the seat of the soul" about four hundred years ago) also has interesting implications.Walter forgot... when you're desperate's when you got no choice.Comment -
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So fuken gaymadcap, what kind of almighty god just pisses out some gases??? The fukin bible says she created in 6 days now goddamnit, thats the way it fukin happened!!! I've been working on a 69 Mach I for 8 months & this bitch built an infinite universe in 6 days oh yeah, I forgot, shes GODComment -
Don't know. Not sure I care. The older I get the more I think investigating spiritual matters is an absolute waste of time. But that's me. If other people want to have at it, let 'em. As long as they aren't blowing shit up while they're doing it. Then I think I reserve all right to instruct my government leaders to drop bombs on them until they are all dead.No more of that talk, or I'll put the leeches on you.Comment -
Satanist.
Member of the Modern Church of Satan.
I selected 'other' however athiest would also apply.Comment -
Don't Christians find it disheartening that research has shown a negative correlation between religion and intelligence.
I have met intelligent, well educated people who are religious but never outside of the U.S. What is it about this nation that even intelligent people end up brainwashed.Comment -
Millions of people around the world die every year because of disease. Millions of children get molested and enslaved by adults every year around the world. The majority of the worlds population is starving. Almost 90% of the worlds wealth is in the hands of 10% of the worlds population.
Where is your almighty god when Paris Hilton gets to take a shit on a heated toilet seat while all of this is happening?
The reason why religion is followed by the majority of the worlds population is because it gives them comfort that there is something beyond this f'ed up world that they believe god created... which is the most amazing contradiction in human history.Comment -
I follow you brother.
It's so much better to embrace patriotism, or more to the point, tribalism.
No wait, tribalism is exactly what you, your ideation and the violent aspects of religion have in common.
That's why you hear so often that Christian and Muslim faith are religions of "peace".
It's because if you eviscerate this inherent tribal corrosion from not only religious minds but from those like yours or mine; then, religion turns of no more significance than preference of music.
But you need to know something that I'm sure you do not yet know.
Simply put, Muslim there, is not like Christianity here.
There, "I'm Muslim" and "I'm Iraqi" aren't much different at all. "I'm Iraqi" speaks to geographical location, and, "I'm Muslim" is all the rest. (music, (political views, religious views THIN LINE) morals, just culture in general)
However in the west, we have a very thick and widening line between religion and politics.
So when you say, "Muslim" and call it a "religion" the same way you would a "christian", or suppose that they're in anyway equivalent, you must be so deeply mistaken.
You think that painting "this is from Uncle Sam" on our bombs is ANY different than them painting "Allah says @#$% you" on their bombs? Tsk. Both 100% tribal. Both say, "from ours to yours."
Tribalism is the key component in bloodshed here. Religion/Patriotism is the scapegoat.
Plus as I just indicated, where you call it "religion", that facet is nothing but "patriotism" with a turban.
Conversation on 9/11 with a religion monger, loosely paraphrased:
Reporter: Do you condone killing?
CH: If I think/see/believe/understand that they're out to do me harm and to kill my family and to kill my culture simply because I'm born here and not there, or simply because I don't believe as they do; then, yes, I say murder every single last one of them before they can murder me. Annihilate every last one of them and truncate the threat.
What Chris didn't realize as he was speaking, (actually I'm sure he did); was that he was speaking out of both sides of his mouth.
What I'm saying, is there are 2 choices:
a) 9/11 was of a religious/political source (<-- the 2 can't be separated in the east like they can in the west.), meaning that they invoked EXACTLY what Chris said was permissible. 'Perceive the threat and take it out, via tribal consideration.' In effect, full well he condoned the actions of the so called "terrorists" or by Hitchen's vocabulary, "defenders".
b) it was all financed by a very smart and very sick mind in Bin Laden where those boneheads on the plane had their religious/political views manipulated and they were sent, along with their naive minds, to their death for a "greater good".
In effect, Bin Laden used religion the same way Uncle Lester uses candy from the back of his van. Of no consequence, religion/killing would have *zip* to do with the killing. It would be the mind of a deviant in that case. Whatever Bin Laden wants to scape goat it upon is up to him. Religion, his mama, mean school kids, his PRIDE in his heritage/religion. (<-- these 2 aren't separated in the east.)
The point is final.
Either:
a)they did exactly what Chris condoned and said that he would do himself if he perceived threat; or,
b)this had nothing to do with political/religious/cultural considerations but simply the musings of a mad man.
"Allah spoke to me and said that 1 000 000 Americans is the limit and then I'll stop." - Bin Laden.
Paraphrased
"I have an uncanny wrath. I've assigned it to take form in all Americans. (undoubtedly triggered by TRIBAL consideration first and foremost, (personal reasons second) and then from there I'll' whipping boy' it into religion/political considerations)
So yeah, I will kill them now as best I can."
That's all it is.
Pick or choose.
a) you'd do the same thing.
b) he's a nut and this has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with
his own psychosis + his own happenstance *tribalism*.
You have hundreds of millions of Muslims ignoring the garbage in the Koran.
(the pride/bias in the writer's hand)
You have hundreds of millions of Christians ignoring the garbage in the Bible.
(the pride/bias in the writer's hand)
And they BOTH take out and embrace the love and unity that is fundamental in both books, indeed in the Abrahamic Trifector.
And we REALLY don't want to get to 'who' from 'what faith/lackthereof' does 'how much' damage. Simply trying to walk that line would be indicative of a petty mind.
My point was only to say that the ones who DON'T ignore that garbage are the ones you hear about. David Koresh, Bin Laden etc. But even THEN, it's not really because they didn't ignore the right verses so much as they're predatory deviants that set their minds to "goal a" and used the bible/religion as a means to justify it. But again, religion is merely the whipping boy, In this case no tribalism but perhaps a sick mind was the case. Not "religion turned him sick". No. He was sick and *called it religion*. Yes.
Next time you're at a 7/11, shake the guys hand and say, "peace be unto you my brother."
Do it seriously because it's a serious thing. Look him in the eye and see what happens.
It's ironic that the Abrahamic Trifector (at least the Muslims and the Christians anyway, I know little of Jewish faith) has the means to completely erode tribalism. "We are all one under God."
Yet, it's also got an incredible potential to fortify tribalism as well. (pride, judgment, greed, hate etc) Very powerful things that can ALSO be *magnified* by religions. This is very true. "Everyone is on a soapbox, but showing someone that they're on the RIGHT soapbox, simply cannot help matters." - DVO
My last point is the erosion of tribalism that Abrahamic Trifector brings.
There is only 1 single other tool that is universal, in a way to affect all, so as to bring us together or tear us apart. That would be money.
So basically religion aggressively seeks to bring down these walls of tribalism and effectively does exactly that when self-serving pride, and the other factors aren't there impeding the progress.
Even if someone without religion identified tribalism as a corrosive psychology and sought to overcome it...there would be no mandate anywhere to begin that effect. He/she couldn't go to the next person without religion and instantly have that bond because there is no dogma attaching the two, and the other person might be on a completely separate page and think tribalism is necessary. Or unavoidable.
If you wanna talk smack about religion, you have to basically trump the bible.
Steal as much from it as it did from others.
Rewrite it, distribute and get a "code of conduct" out there that isn't 2000 years old.
Aside from that, stop whining about symptoms and start whining about their cause.Last edited by DeeVeeOSs; 02-15-11, 11:20 AM.Comment -
How come you haven't been found swinging from the rafters by an extension cord?
That's right you disingenuous little half-truth teller, bullshit yeller; it's because *you're thankful for some of the things in your life*.
So with your list of Paris's heated toilet seat (really!? lol) maybe you should keep going and tell the whole truth. Hey look, in a universe this vast, science dictates that an I-Beam crush a head once every x hours. Know what though? There were a lot of near misses. Or better, maybe I should say that that construction job will provide jobs and the building itself will be a hospital.
Simple wonder, is a wonder itself, if you're the scientific type. Philosophy, ontology etc. To be thinking should make you think about what thinking is and how it's happening. Fundamentally, that the thought you just had was set in motion billions of years ago. Essentially, already there.
Pets.
I'm not one for babies because I'm not sure reproduction should be legal (for the reasons you already sited), but I can appreciate the wonder of new life that will grow old and how.
Nature. Medicine. Chess. Poker. Sex. Music. Drugs.
There are a lot of good things in life that you didn't list.
You're one of those pity party atheists huh?
You should go to Africa and ask the children in some of those Ethiopian towns why it is they don't kill themselves.
Then you should go to China and ask why they do.
Then you should look at what you have/don't have, and compare it.
I'd love to know your results.
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Hey Douchebag,
it's not tribalism I'm interested in, but survive-alism.
When idiots start trying to kill me, whether it's in the name of their God, they want to steal my stuff, or they are just pissed about the Taco Bell over-cooking their burrito, I'm going to respond by making them all dead.
My thoughts on religion or the tribe I belong to have nothing to do with any of it. You try and kill me, whatever the reason, and I'm going to kill you back. It's simple.
The cause of these "symptoms," as you pointed out, but then somehow failed to fully comprehend, has nothing to do with religion or anything else, but the fact that some people are just "sick" in the head. And there are always going to be sick people. Within tribes, in separate tribes. And when they reveal that their sickness is incurable, you bring the blade upon them to spare the rest of society from their sickness.
Why don't you stop bitching and grow a pair, and man up and realize that some people will have to be dealt with by the harsh hand of human wrath to prevent their sickness from spreading.No more of that talk, or I'll put the leeches on you.Comment -
#1. Are you prepared to use your harsh hand on your OWN family by the SAME measure you do others?
#2. You don't want me to grow a pair because you might not like where I decide the pestilence lies.
You suspect you're above tribalism but you're just as much a party to your 'tribalistic genetic disposition' as the millions of years of life that came before you.
Surely you must realize that you're double quick to crack the whip on others and twice as hard, until it's your friend that's acting like a jackass. In that case, some dialogue and proper understanding is appropriate.
If you're in a position to judge and condemn, then so were the ones flying the plane.
They did EXACTLY what you said you would do.
"(when I perceive) You try and kill me, whatever the reason, and I'm going to kill you back. It's simple."
That's all they did and you condone it.
Can't speak out both sides of your mouth.
Either it's OK or it's not.
But it's NOT OK "depending on if THEY do it or if WE do it." <--that is tribalism and your position.Last edited by DeeVeeOSs; 02-15-11, 01:09 PM.Comment -
Yes, where you come from the people around there are generally correct. Right.
It's 'them' over 'there' that are always the ones starting issues.
You wouldn't judge those near to you by the same stick because you can't.
You're incapable of it and you just showed the mechanics behind exactly what I was getting at.
"I'm fair, I just, you know, start with 'them'. And *if* one of mine were in the red...well that's just not likely."
As for "bring it"...I plead the fifth.
Just imagine yourself humble and we'll skip the semantics.
Everyone online has a Rambo complex these days.Comment -
Deeveeos
As hard as it can be to read through your stuff,I just want you to know it is being appreciated.
You are nailing itComment -
Fair enough, but why is it that the more religious a society(or country, or city, etc) is the more crime they have? Why is it that Atheists represent less than 1% of the U.S. prison population? What do I do different than religious people? I QUESTION EVERYTHING. I don't think I've ever met a religious person in my life that does this. You're probably thinking... "I question everything!" Really? Do you believe in Virgin Births and Talking Snakes? This brings us back biblical literalism. How do you know which parts of the Bible were actually literal? I sure don't. You pick and choose I guess... you pick the things that fit your lifestyle best and ignore the other stuff that doesn't suit you like most Christians do. You silly Christians... it's a good thing you have someone else thinking for you. Who knows what you might do if you actually thought for yourself. But then again... if you could think for yourself it's unlikely that you would be a Christian.Comment -
DeeVos,
you have no concept for what I do, or have done, to prevent bloodshed.
Humble I am not; swift and merciless I am.
I cannot control the past actions of my government, nor can I really control future ones. I can, and have, tried to bring justice to those who have abused their power.
But regardless of the past actions sanctioned by my government, I will not stand by to see innocent civilians in my country murdered by terrorists.
The hell fire currently dispensed in the Islamic world was brought on by their hands, even it if is being delivered by ours. Their actions provoked the response. They wanted to pick a fight, and so they did.
This is how real life works DeeVos. It is not some Kumbaya campfire circle jerk where everybody is going to get along. Maybe you see it otherwise. Maybe you're a dreamer, you're not the only one. But in the real world we can't pray for some magic future where our differences will be eliminated, instead we have to fight to eliminate those who refuse to accept the differences we have now.
I'm sick and tired of watching my country commit it's resources and sacrifice the lives of its citizens to preserve the freedom of the planet only to be vilified as the dragon, instead of respected as the slayer. And I'm doubly tired of hearing from lazy spoiled ingrates like yourself who have been basking under the security only we have the resources and inclination to try and create, and then so blithely questioning the manner in which we provide it. And so personally nothing would make me happier than to see the United States take a step back and resign their role as the guardians of the free world. Cede the position back the British. It's all their fault in the first place. It'd be nice if they'd clean up some of their own damned messes from time to time so that we didn't have to.
Of course you will take the statement and consider it something like the "warped and ignorant arrogance of a stupid American." Unfortunately for you DeeVos, my perspective comes from years of life living abroad, outside the borders and direct protection of the U.S. military, and is rooted in enough un-welcomed truths witnessed and of reality's grit experienced, to realize that your take on the matter is borne of nothing more than a contrived and fanciful desire to believe in the error of the monstrous United States, and not the feeble weakness of your homeland. If despising and blaming the U.S.A. allows you not to shit yourself every morning because your hatred holds at bay your fear, then by all means, continue. There's no shame in not wanting to have to buy new pants every week. But I hope that you will awaken one day and realize that if there is a right side of this fight, it'll be the one holding high Old Glory.Last edited by The Madcap; 02-15-11, 10:12 PM.No more of that talk, or I'll put the leeches on you.Comment -
You separate 'religion and state' abroad as though it were at all akin to our setup in the West.
Take a week to use a copious mount of empathy, and understand that 'muslim' to them is NOTHING like 'christian' is to you.
Laying down the prayer mat to them is like singing the Star Spangled Banner to you.
You REALLY need to appreciate that it's not an apple to apple comparison.
Effectively, when you speak of religion, you can't use the word for here AND for there. It's like calling some Chinese kid and Aussie just because you're an Aussie. "He's a Chinese Aussie, you'd say."
When you say the word "religion", whilst maintaining your understanding of the word, you realistically short-circuit and truncate the topic matter of your point.Comment -
"I can, and have, tried to bring justice to those who have abused their power."
this is a god complex.
vengeance is mine says the lord
"I will not stand by to see innocent civilians in my country murdered by terrorists."
lose the word terrorist and just how many innocent people die everyday at the hands of those claiming the power of god,by god I mean government entities
when I read your words about realism in this world it reminds me of the attitude of the god of moses in the old testamentLast edited by gwiz; 02-15-11, 10:58 PM.Comment -
It's a doozie to follow me. Convoluted and spelled out to a fault.
Frankly I don't intend people to get from one side to the other.
It's just not my experience that they do, or even can.
"I just feed their sub-conscious a 'hot-dose' and let their sleep do my work."
The problem with getting from one side to the other, is that I've got meta-brick walls in the way.
If you bash through them, the model has no foundation and it collapses. A waste of everyone's time.
This is the most typical.
If you climb over them, or evade them, then they haven't been addressed. So that when you "skip" to the end, it's no different than watching 3 seconds of a movie and trying to tell me what the foundation of the movie was about.
This is quite typical too.
What you've apparently done, G-Wiz, is simply walked through each door, exactly where they are, all the way through to the end.
No building new doors, no climbing over and no busting through. At least this is my suspicion.
The fact you've done this, IF you've done this, would indicate that you have very little vested interest in YOUR reality and more interest in THE reality. People have problems with the absolutes(walls) when they have to step out of their skin to acknowledge them.
When they have to make a concession in their ideation/understanding/faith/belief/sense of comfort to find the door.
Either you're the first person to make concession(s) in order to embrace fact(s) that I feel I've uncovered; or, you have little/no concessions to make in the first place. That alone, in my opinion, would be a lonely existence but also one with worth and one worthy of acknowledgment. At least a trophy if not a statue.
You've made my day with those few little sentences. Not only as an anchor, benchmark and template, but as a full-on witness, colleague, class "A" scientist, and inventor/"uncoverer".
I think if you were Mormon and I were Mormon and we found agreement, I think it would be likely insignificant.
However that's not the case.
The case is that I'm impressed you read slow enough, and repeated it enough times, to where you caught not only my drift, but apparently yours as well.
I think that's awesome and I'm honoured you found the musings at least amusing, if not even maybe interesting.
I appreciate that witness brotherman.
You take care with it G-Wiz.
Your mind must really be a rarity my friend.
Yup. All that from 2 little sentences
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My thoughts exactly on the power complex.
My thoughts exactly on "lose the word terrorist".
(Apparently he hasn't figured out that they use the same word to describe him yet. ie. there IS a RIGHT side to this.) <----LOL what an inward gibble.
I wouldn't doubt this clown has been places.
Going places is possible. I know and understand that.
But I think he's done a lot of drugs as well.
Thus the power complex.
The reason this works out mathematically, is that you do not go places, without realizing how small you really are.
Or he's just straight full of shit. Either way.
I didn't read his last post because after that power complex and then the "THEY're terrorists over THERE" thing, I just skimmed for substance and then gave up and stopped looking at it altogether.Comment -
I see true judgement as what most would consider education or the concept of "Oh I get it now"
I think we are all capable of getting it.
maybe that's naive but at this point I don't think so.
Weirdly though life is like the game of golf in the sense that we can have a new "I get it" moment all the time and an old "I get it" might not work in today's conditions.Last edited by gwiz; 02-15-11, 11:51 PM.Comment -
You two should get a room.No more of that talk, or I'll put the leeches on you.Comment -
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A God complex? That I am God? It is my belief we are living in the absence of God which has led me to believe that it is the responsibility of man to determine humanity's fate. All of man. And I am simply one of billions doing what I can.
It's not vengeance. Revenge is not a valid motive, it's an emotional response. No, not vengeance. Punishment.No more of that talk, or I'll put the leeches on you.Comment
