Tournament Strategy

[tatddy]

Yeah it's tough opti you really can't rely on fold equity there because this type of tourney there are so many bad players who fall in love with mediocre hands. Stealing the pot is fine but you really want more outs in that spot in case someone looks you up. Maybe raise to 3K in that spot like I said and then you can still get away or at least stall things on the turn. Still position is everything because you've gotta play the next 2 streets OOP.

Prob is so many limpers and guys love to see cheap pots with hands that dominate yours (QJ, J10, KJ etc).

[SharpAngles]

Damn opti you've got some balls on you I'll give you that. Pretty deep stack to shove it all in. I like a 3bet much better than a push because it looks like you may want a call and should make them think about their top pair weak kicker. Don't forget the guys playing a lot of hands usually know tricks like the squeeze play and will sniff them out, although here you say you were playing pretty tight so Id classify this call as more of a donk play than a soul read.

[SharpAngles]

Yeah it's tough opti you really can't rely on fold equity there because this type of tourney there are so many bad players who fall in love with mediocre hands. Stealing the pot is fine but you really want more outs in that spot in case someone looks you up. Maybe raise to 3K in that spot like I said and then you can still get away or at least stall things on the turn. Still position is everything because you've gotta play the next 2 streets OOP.

Prob is so many limpers and guys love to see cheap pots with hands that dominate yours (QJ, J10, KJ etc).

As usual, tat gets it. Smartest Giants fan I've ever run across

[Auto Donk]

As usual, tat gets it. Smartest Giants fan I've ever run across

annie duke personally tutored me on this one point back in 2008, and it's very valid.... never commit more chips than necessary to get the desired result.....

if 3k blows them out of the hand, don't risk it all, in case someone has a monster.....

[Optional]

Yeah it's tough opti you really can't rely on fold equity there because this type of tourney there are so many bad players who fall in love with mediocre hands. Stealing the pot is fine but you really want more outs in that spot in case someone looks you up. Maybe raise to 3K in that spot like I said and then you can still get away or at least stall things on the turn. Still position is everything because you've gotta play the next 2 streets OOP.

Prob is so many limpers and guys love to see cheap pots with hands that dominate yours (QJ, J10, KJ etc).

I said earlier that hands didnt improve, but I forgot a J actually came on the turn, so i consoled myself that i would have probably ended up allin at that point anyway, if I hadn't made the pf push.

Damn opti you've got some balls on you I'll give you that. Pretty deep stack to shove it all in. I like a 3bet much better than a push because it looks like you may want a call and should make them think about their top pair weak kicker. Don't forget the guys playing a lot of hands usually know tricks like the squeeze play and will sniff them out, although here you say you were playing pretty tight so Id classify this call as more of a donk play than a soul read.

Maybe I had done something earlier to tip him off. Still can't see how he could make the call anyway really.

I'm going to stop doing much of anything out of position unless real premium hand for a little while and see how that changes my game.

[ChuckyTheGoat]

Opti:

* I'll chime in again. Hey, what do I know?

You want to keep your opponent off-balance. Personally, I'd only make that huge shove w/ a good (but vulnerable) hand like 2pr or a Huge combo-draw that has to have several outs.

Fact u did it w/ a WEAK jack is not a bad thing. One reason to overbet is to get BETTER hands to fold. JT would qualify...and most players surely would fold that.

[Optional]

Thanks Chucky. Think I agree I was unlucky but it wasn't a smart play really anyway.

I'm going to try to practice most days for a while more seriously than i have before. Want to make another trip but only if I think I can genuinely hold my own next time. This trip was a bit of a wake up that most players are half assed amateurs like me and that level player doesn't win a lot.

Going to play a $1 NL [R+A] $100 GT just starting on BOL now. Let's see if this convo has improved me at all ;-)

[ChuckyTheGoat]

Right on, Opti. Like I said...I think MOST players lay down the JT. You had good Fold Equity vs MOST players.

But there's a saying in poker. "Don't try to bluff a DONKEY." Hee-haw...he couldn't lay it down.

I think the top-pros would say that HIS call was very bad. U might have been value-towning him.

[Optional]

Final table of the tourney mentioned above.

9 left.

What's the right call here?

[ChuckyTheGoat]

Have to go All-in there. 7BB.

Ogny's shove doesn't have to be all that strong, at 5BB.

[Auto Donk]

Have to go All-in there. 7BB, and it's suited.

Ogny's shove doesn't have to be all that strong, at 5BB.

agree here.... you're hoping he let it rip with just under 5 big blinds with aq/aj/ even ace ten, maybe even kq suited.... (and this isn't sbr where ak is essentially drawing dead to any ace under), he probably has a pair, qq-22 at best, only aa/kk has you buried

might even have the same hand as you.... shove and hope for the best


if you run like peavy, you'll turn trip kings and take out his 88.... (that's what jake did with ak when he called my 88 shove at the bash)

[Optional]

Have to go All-in there. 7BB, and it's suited.

Ogny's shove doesn't have to be all that strong, at 5BB.

I called instead of pushing it all in.

Kind of hoped that might make it look like I wanted a call and keep others out


but it didn't and 3rd guy bet after turn




And I'm out in 9th

[ChuckyTheGoat]

Opti, just an unfortunate run-out. With stacks that low...guys don't want to lay down pocket-pairs.

AK is a mis-understood hand, IMHO. It's included in the list of "premium" hands. But u still need to catch.

[Optional]

Level 10

About 45 left with 20 paid

Avg stack about 8000

Blinds 150/300 30


I bet 700 pre flop. All fold and BB calls.

After flop BB checks, I bet 700 and he raises to 1400.



Did I bet the right amount to start with? And what should i do?

[Optional]

Here's a hand 10 mins later

Call, raise or fold?

[bobbywaves]

AK is a mis-understood hand, IMHO. It's included in the list of "premium" hands. But u still need to catch.

If you call my Big Slick with A,Q & no queen hits the board, do I still need to catch?

You may want to rethink that one.

[Optional]

Speaking of AK.... here's how I went out of that one.

Went allin, he called with KK, and I was out. (next hand)

[Optional]

One more...


I'm not sure if I played this correctly.

Checked BB, then checked after flop, then he bet 800

[ChuckyTheGoat]

OPTI, poker is a game of incomplete information. It's hard to say what the RIGHT play is w/ 100% certainty.

[ChuckyTheGoat]

Waves, standard here. Fk off.

OPTI, when you're short-stacked, should be thinking Shove or Fold.

[ChuckyTheGoat]

U have to bet the JJ. Can't give him credit for better hand.

[bobbywaves]

Waves, standard here. Fk off.

?

You stated A,K is a mis-understood hand where you still need to catch. Fact is you will have your opponent dominated often, with a weaker ace-kicker.

[Optional]

U have to bet the JJ. Can't give him credit for better hand.

I didn't.

And he didn't.

folded and A2 won it.

[ChuckyTheGoat]

Opti...my goal is simply to be a good AMATEUR. I have a lot of ideas, based on my observations on the table:

* On that hand, when the stacks are short, I think u have to like your hand.

JJ flops set 12% of time and overpair 33% of time. In that sense, u got a Good Flop.

You'd be racing w/ someone who flopped an unusually good combo-draw, like 45 (clubs).

And that's a LOW BOARD. Meaning, it doesn't hit a lot of the playing zone (like Face cards).

On low-boards, my experience is that just ONE PAIR wins the pot a lot. A guy holding A8 for TPTK might feel really strong.

[daneblazer]

Level 10

About 45 left with 20 paid

Avg stack about 8000

Blinds 150/300 30


I bet 700 pre flop. All fold and BB calls.

After flop BB checks, I bet 700 and he raises to 1400.



Did I bet the right amount to start with? And what should i do?

Kind of a tough one. You can call and hope you hit a A or a J. Polarizing check raise though...often means he has a strong hand or nothing at all. If the villain has been playing like a nit or station, it's a fold.

[daneblazer]

Here's a hand 10 mins later

Call, raise or fold?

[daneblazer]

One more...


I'm not sure if I played this correctly.

Checked BB, then checked after flop, then he bet 800

Betting flop. Raising his bet to get something out of a draw. If you call the turn and he whiffs, good chance you aren't getting anything more out of him.

[Optional]

Sounds like I made an obvious mistake folding the Jacks. It felt like an error at the time, and would have won the hand (one had A2 and the other had 2 clubs... so god knows why they called in that spot)

Kind of a tough one. You can call and hope you hit a A or a J. Polarizing check raise though...often means he has a strong hand or nothing at all. If the villain has been playing like a nit or station, it's a fold.

I ended up calling him for the extra 700 and the hand checked out for me to win.... but I felt lucky to win it and unsure if i had played it right afterward.


















Some good news though. I'm improving my game fast the last few days. Made a couple of final tables yesterday. best result was about 6th in a $3000 GT with several hundred players.


Just been doing 3 things differently;

1) Hardly playing at all out of position.

2) If I am thinking about just calling, I try to find a reason to raise or fold instead.

3) If I am thinking about a min raise, stop and consider either a bigger bet or check.


Played half a dozen tournies last couple of days and either making it to the cash or running strong every time so far with the small changes.

Will have a go at a couple more today whilst watching NASCAR



I have to get good enough to justify another Vegas poker trip.

[Optional]

Betting flop. Raising his bet to get something out of a draw. If you call the turn and he whiffs, good chance you aren't getting anything more out of him.

Awesome. I thought the same, so I raised there. But he folded.

As long as it was the right play I am happy though.

[Optional]

15/30 early in tourney

I am dealt Q 10 diamonds in about 4th to act seat

UTG bets 90

folds to me, I call and rest of table folds.

Flop comes 10 3 5, a diamond and 2 hearts

Villian bets 120 and I raise to 240 and he calls.

Turn is a black King.

Villian checks and I bet 470, he calls.

River 8 diamonds.

He checks, I bet half the pot, about 800.


rooster_eater calls me with KJ diamonds. And wins.

Surely I must have looked like I had better than top pair from that??

[ChuckyTheGoat]

Opti, I don't like picking apart hands too much. Just so many ways it can play out.

I can point out one SIZING issue, tho. On flop, that 240 raise is going to get called w/ a lot of hands. That's something like 120 to win 560. Almost +500 odds. He has 2overs + backdoor flush draw. He has to feel like he's getting fair odds vs any hand other than a set.

If he bricked on Turn, then I think one more card makes him go away. He just happened to catch TopPair, so he called u down.

[BaseballChaser]

Kind of a tough one. You can call and hope you hit a A or a J. Polarizing check raise though...often means he has a strong hand or nothing at all. If the villain has been playing like a nit or station, it's a fold.

It's not all that polarizing. He's BB so he has a lot of hands that can connect with 34. Can easily c/r with an open ender/gut shot as well as having spades.


Probably check back the AJ backdoor flush. B/c the only hands that you're getting to fold the flop you're already ahead of. And, you're probably not double barreling AJ unless you turn a diamond.

But, as played you fold. B/c with your stack size to pot ratio he's probably shoving close to all turns. And there's no turn that you can really call and feel comfortable with.

IMO

[BaseballChaser]

15/30 early in tourney

I am dealt Q 10 diamonds in about 4th to act seat

UTG bets 90

folds to me, I call and rest of table folds.

Flop comes 10 3 5, a diamond and 2 hearts

Villian bets 120 and I raise to 240 and he calls.

Turn is a black King.

Villian checks and I bet 470, he calls.

River 8 diamonds.

He checks, I bet half the pot, about 800.


rooster_eater calls me with KJ diamonds. And wins.

Surely I must have looked like I had better than top pair from that??

What are you trying to accomplish by min raising over his bet on the flop? On the turn I have the same question why are you betting? Charge hearts I suppose, but on the turn you're basically turning your 2nd pair into a bluff and on the river you are definitely turning it into a bluff.

2nd pair has a good amount of showdown value. If you're turning 2nd pair into a bluff you're bluffing too frequently. Obviously there's times to turn your pairs and other hands into a bluff.

[Optional]

What are you trying to accomplish by min raising over his bet on the flop? On the turn I have the same question why are you betting? Charge hearts I suppose, but on the turn you're basically turning your 2nd pair into a bluff and on the river you are definitely turning it into a bluff.

2nd pair has a good amount of showdown value. If you're turning 2nd pair into a bluff you're bluffing too frequently. Obviously there's times to turn your pairs and other hands into a bluff.

Hmm thanks for the food for thought. Not sure I bluff too much. Blinding out is a bigger issue Ive had in the past. But I dont seem to pick my spots well to bluff. Or maybe I am just playing low stakes and people just call with anything...

I raised for two reasons. To show strength and set up a bluff if the chance came, and for information about how strong he might be. I expected him to raise back at me, with me going small, if he was strong.

I just didn't expect him to call a half pot size bet on the river, especially after checking to me.

[ChuckyTheGoat]

Opti, your comment about BLINDING OUT is a good one.

I mentioned this for tournaments. The worst feeling is going card-dead and watching your chip-stack erode. Think of it in terms of "orbits." If u don't play any hands, each orbit you're going to lose 1.5 Big Blinds + any Antes.

Think about your Net +/- for each orbit. If u pick up the Blinds once, that compensates for the 1.5 BB u lose. That would be break-even (ignoring the antes).

The BEST players know they have to make a move at some point. When they are at BB level of ~20 or so, they might make an unusual move. IE, hold speculative hand and try to get opponent to lay down better hand. If they get called, they know they still have some equity.

What they DON'T want to do is just get blinded off.