Tournament Strategy

[ChuckyTheGoat]

One other sidebar re: that hand. KK were seemingly the hot hand at my table.

Within a 2-hour period...TWICE kk chopped the pot w/ the OTHER KK!

[gkramerica]

Thx, Kramerica. I can kick myself over that hand for sure. Feel like I might have been destined to go busto there.

I pretty much realized that the only hand I'm trapping at that point is QQ. Can a better player lay that hand down post-flop? Maybe.

After the 2nd raise, I did feel pot-committed. Hard to lay it down.

I don't mind that you get stacked there, but you need to take a line that lets him punt it off with AJ/AQ/AK to offset the times he has AA/JJ/TT.

[sinmiedo]

Thx, sinner. I'm enjoying it and making the most of it.

One of the points I was trying to make re: Opti's question...I don't feel like I'm above anyone. Any2 cards are capable of winning.

I've been pondering the $3000 6max today. I go back + forth, but part of me knows it's a bad idea. That would be stepping up to the big-leagues and playing vs name-pros. Just don't think I've done the LEGWORK to think I'm ready for that.

52 cards are in play, any combination wins a hand, that is what Doyle Brunson explain in the super system book, he is right, but in order to play the 52 cards you need a lot of hours and hands to see different situations and outcomes. That been said, poker has evolved so much since the book was written that I m sharing a though that a professional Canadian part of poker stars team Canada in those days, shared with me years ago; " once you and your opponent are matched in skill, Luck, is the tie barker "

[Optional]

Opti, responding to your question. I don't think the casual player is at too big of a dis-advantage. I saw many crazy players go deep in the tournaments. Guys that were making plays and sometimes playing any2.

One reason I say that. Poker tournaments are about taking a shot at the blinds. Sometimes, the mid-level player is TOO tight. Waiting around for big holdings and then raising to clear out the blinds? Couldn't u do that w/ any2 cards?

That's encouraging


For you, or anyone else, what do you think about re-buying in general?

I've noticed that most people do re-buy in the live tournies I've played. So many do it I think most people must go in thinking I'll either double this up fast or bust and re-buy a lot of the time.

Wouldn't it be smarter to never re-buy and save the 2nd buyin for another tourney where you are starting on an equal footing with everyone again?

[JAKEPEAVY21]

Jake has the right of it here; all that matters is the decisions you make, and you got it in preflop bad (not an altogether unreasonable situation, just bad timing). What happens along the way to the hand losing isn't really relevant; if you wonder what could have been after 3 cards but before 5, you could just as easily wonder about any two cards outflopping any other two cards right?

It's easier to complain and play the victim card than be honest with yourself. It turns out that he got lucky on the flop and unlucky on the turn and river and it was a rough way to lose but when the chips went in he was in terrible shape.

[playersonly69]

Optional,

Well regards to rebuying, keep in mind that you are also entering the tournament with more chips than about 30% of the field as well. If it is a small buy in tournament of between $250-500 then I believe that a second bullet is worthwhile. Hopefully you picked a tournament that is +EV for your style so in that case then another rebuy is definitely in order.

[ChuckyTheGoat]

Opti, I normally DON'T re-buy. Check how much the Blinds have changed.

If the Blinds have gone up significantly, your effective BB stack doesn't look so hot. This time...I was out so quickly that my 2nd bullet was still a healthy # of BB.

[tatddy]

Is it 2005 again in here?

[ChuckyTheGoat]

2005?

I love the GIF you threw in that thread. Think that's gonna be new catch-phrase any time I get knocked out of tournament:

"Nice game, pretty boy."

[blankoblanco]

It's easier to complain and play the victim card than be honest with yourself. It turns out that he got lucky on the flop and unlucky on the turn and river and it was a rough way to lose but when the chips went in he was in terrible shape.

Along these same lines, a healthy way of thinking about it is that once you're all-in preflop, the order of the cards doesn't matter. You could just as easily have been flopped dead, then hit your meaningless 9 on the river. You could close your eyes until the last card comes out and nothing's any different. It's just that it psychologically affects us when we see each street come out individually, see the suckout, and then the resuckout on the river. But it ultimately means nothing until all 5 cards are on the board.

[blankoblanco]

Great updates Chucky...please win one of these so you can stay an extra couple weeks and play the 888 with me.
Anyway, I don't mind the call pre-flop, but I would probably 3 bet to make sure the blinds and limper don't come along.

I don't see much reason to raise the flop. I guess you could raise with the intention of folding to a 3 bet, but I'd rather flat and let him continue to bet his QQ/AJ/AK/etc. You block the straight draws, so his 3bet looks like AA/QQ/JJ/TT which is not good. I'm not really sure how many people would play AJ like this preflop or on the flop.

His 5bet jam removes any doubt but maybe you were committed by then.

Also, I agree pretty strongly with this. You didn't tell us exact stack sizes, but based on the amount of raising, I'd imagine there were more than enough chips behind to get away from KK here. Bottom line is you stacked off to a 5bet all-in with one pair on a not-so-great board, without a strong read on the individual opponent. That's just rarely correct, if ever.

I think you're vastly overestimating how often he has AJ or QQ here in a spot like this. If the average player has one of those hands and gets raised by you on a JT7 flop, they're pretty afraid of being beat and probably just call. This isn't a decade ago where everyone overplayed top pair top kicker. Yes, some players will massively overplay, but you didn't suggest you had a read to believe that. So I think you either flat-call to avoid this whole situation and disguise your hand, re-evaluate on the turn, or you fold to the flop 3bet.

[ChuckyTheGoat]

Blanco, I think your comments are very fair. Was deep-stck, which makes it a worse play.

Laying down KK w/o an over on unpaired board...not ez to do. Veteran players say the ability to Fold is hardest one to develop.

[tatddy]

2005?

I love the GIF you threw in that thread. Think that's gonna be new catch-phrase any time I get knocked out of tournament:

"Nice game, pretty boy."

Just messing with you Chucky. 2005 was about the time the world cared about poker as much as you do now

[ChuckyTheGoat]

Haha, ok, Tat. Don't mind me, I'm a little slow. See the KK hand (above).

I was a little late to the poker-revolution. Honestly...back in 2005, I was working too much. Was all about the grind.

Have a great day, pal. And safe travels!

[blankoblanco]

Blanco, I think your comments are very fair. Was deep-stck, which makes it a worse play.

Laying down KK w/o an over on unpaired board...not ez to do. Veteran players say the ability to Fold is hardest one to develop.

Yeah, without a doubt. I just wouldn't be so quick to dismiss that hand as an inescapable cooler. Only way any of us can improve is to think critically about our plays and even be a bit hard on ourselves, within reason. Enjoying the thread, so keep it up and gl.

[ChuckyTheGoat]

Thx for the words, Blanco. Yeah, it's all about the knowledge + getting better.

One older gentleman at the table called it a "cooler." I've made some big laydowns. Just not sure about that spot.

I'd just hate to lay it down and then see him show QQ. I know from a "Range" perspective...I was not in good shape. Knew it wasn't a great flop (for sure).

The hand I've laid down much more than most (pre-flop) is AK. If there's a significant amount of betting (multiple raises), you're likely flipping at best and crushed at worst.

Most people play AK to the hilt, but don't understand the math attached to that holding.

[ChuckyTheGoat]

Blanco, I love the concept of critical thinking. Always trying to improve.

What do u think about the hand I folded KJ in Big Blind? In sports, I hate the concept of the "Monday Morning QB." So, I'm not going to say it was a bad fold...just b/c the Straight would have come in.

As I was weighing my options, I had to consider what the 2 opponents had. If I'm up against overpair and/or set, I'm in trouble. Also, either guy could have slightly better hand that had me dominated. KQ or AK. A T9 board ties in so many hands.

[blankoblanco]

Based on the odds, I think it was a good fold. Your 4 outs were the only ones you were really happy with hitting at that time. Anything else could've been problematic and you wouldn't have known where you were at. The backdoor flush is a nice bonus but probably not strong enough to change anything. I don't think it was a bad fold at all.

[ChuckyTheGoat]

Thx, Blanco. The more I thought about it, the better I felt.

Just too many run-outs where I was gonna be pipped.

[ChuckyTheGoat]

Played the 5pm today and bricked it.

If anyone wants to play the Deepstack, I highly recommend the 2pm over the 5pm. Two reasons I say that:
1) 2pm starts at 300 Effective Big Blinds. 5pm starts at 200 BB. Can play real-poker longer.
2) 2pm seems to attract more players (>1000), so the payouts are a little juicier.

Note, these tournaments seemingly last forever. Goes until 5am.

[BeerDog99]

Love the updates Chucky, good luck and I hope we get to meet next week!

[ChuckyTheGoat]

Hey, BDog, thx, pal.

I'm trying to keep the updates honest. Good + bad. I've hit the board a few times, so not a complete whiff.

Some suckouts, some bad-beats. And a bad play or two, as well.

I saw a Rio worker rolling in a wheelbarrow of $100 bills. He told me they're getting it ready for arrival of Sinner + BeerDog.

[playersonly69]

You should be playing in the tournaments at the Ventian or Wynn. They are more suited for someone looking for alot of BB's. The Wynn has guarantees on their $400 buy in tournaments and you get a ton of chips.


Although I wont play there, the Golden Nugget has a huge summer series with real small buyins as does Binions. Hell even Planet Hollywood has some real cheap buy in tournaments

What is the last day that you will be there?

[ChuckyTheGoat]

PO, right now, I've been focusing on the Rio tournaments. I'm glad I didn't play in the 6max. I'm just not prepared for it. I know I would have been -EV vs the pros.

[ChuckyTheGoat]

One other observation on the tourney players:

* You don't have to wait for them to turn over their cards to know what they're holding.

Their bet-sizing tells it all. Part of that is playing shorter stacks in the "turbos".

But it's amazing. Make a hand. In-position, out-of-pos, doesn't matter. $$ is going in, immediately.

[playersonly69]

You would do fine versus the Pros. Hell they get 2 cards just like you do.


Here is one of the MAIN things that amateurs make mistakes in the Main Event or in events with big buyins and long levels. IT is REAL hard to play the main event real early. The main problem with most newbies are the 2 hour levels. So for the first 2 hours the blinds are 75/150.

The standard raise at that point is to around 350, maybe 400. Even if someone has aces they still raise to 400 or so. Hell for hours 3 and 4 the blinds are only 150/300. And you start with 50,000 chips this year! You play 4 hours and first of all most pots never see the river. And even pots that see the river will have only around 1000-2000 chips in them.


What I do is that I start somewhere around hour 4. It assures that first of all I wont be tired later at night when the decisions are much more crucial. I am talking about playing around the 4th hour and you still start with a full stack.

Another thing to keep in mind, you start with 50,000 chips and they will play 5 levels on day 1. You could actually skip the whole days and you will still start with 30,000 chips or so on day 2. That is a guess but in the past 2 years when players didnt show up for day 1 and they started with 30,000 chips, most of them still had around 20,000 chips on day 2. Now the blinds were slower last year though if i remember correctly

[ChuckyTheGoat]

PO, good luck in the main event.

I hear u. I'm pretty comfortable in my own skin. I know my level. I still make some donk-plays. And I just know that I'm not prepared for certain situations.

I don't want to feel like I'm at a dis-advantage vs a pro that has spent hours in the lab. I'm a big fan of Fedor Holz. He would be my stereotype of the young thinking pro. They have studied these situations to the n-th degree.

[ChuckyTheGoat]

One example:

* What do u do when the 4th Diamond hits the board on the River in a heads-up pot?

The reality is that it's very likely NEITHER player has a Diamond. The thinking pro is going to ponder every hand combination on every street that u COULD have been holding.

The top-end pros like Polk/Siever will put u to the test when they don't think YOU can be holding the nuts. Regardless of what THEY are holding.

[ChuckyTheGoat]

BDog, this is gonna be u next week:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2UUCRY1SMc

[playersonly69]

If I am first to act and the 4th diamond hits the board then I place the first bet. I actually put them to the test. Well assuming that they reraised preflop.


But hopefully that is a small pot anyway. You want to win the bigger pots and hopefully only lose small ones.



I may not play the main even this year actually. Our family is having a every 10 year reunion near that time. But I am going to be in Vegas for over a week, if I make at least $20,000 in profit then I will be back. The problem is my family wants to go as well. And they would have to miss the reunion. My daughter (16) actually loves Vegas. They were going to go with me next week, but had to cancel this week. So now they all want to go if I go back in July

[ChuckyTheGoat]

I plan on playing 2pm RIO today.

On Friday, my schedule is slightly different. Might play 1pm Golden Nugget.

[ChuckyTheGoat]

One strategy I'll throw out there. It's a Short-stack All-in strategy.

When you're really short, there's not much left to do. See the T6 play above.

When u count up the dead$$ (BB, SmallBlind, antes, priorBets)...a lot of times, the $$ out there is too good to fold. Sure, T6(offsuit) is a lame holding. But there aren't many hand matchups that aren't value at +300 odds. If opponent was holding AK, I was perfectly live.

[ChuckyTheGoat]

My point is that there are strategies for how to navigate the short-stack:

* Most pro tournament players simply won't turn down +200 heads-up odds. Count up the dead$$, figure out what the odds are. If you're catching +220 odds on a call, u call (with any2). And if u have a more reasonable holding (like J8 suited), u can take a shorter price like +190.

So often, when the cards go face up...you're going to say "I'm +EV." 40% at +200, that's +20% ROI. I'll take that every time.

[JAKEPEAVY21]

all of this is fairly common knowledge and is being presented as if it's the Holy Grail

[ChuckyTheGoat]

3-way All-ins can be interesting, too. I was getting low last nite. I'm holding 54 (diamonds).

A short-stack all-in (4bb) and call in front. I'm in BigBlind. I already have 1bb in, 3 more in my stack.

I call, suited-connectors do ok in multi-way pot. Getting close to +400 odds. Figure it's my best way to get some chip movement.

Up against KQ and JJ. Pretty standard. Figure I'm up against 2overs + an Overpair.

Flop is 654, I do make a boat and win the pot. Lucked out, but that's not the point.

I felt like I was getting fair odds. If u run this thru hand matchup calculator, I was getting Fair Value.

So often, you'll be getting +EV or at least 98-cents on the dollar.

I spoke w/ a couple players after the hand. They told me "it was a bad play...but u got lucky."

So many players don't understand the concept of fair value. If you're behind, they feel like u should fold. And they don't grasp the value of speculative hands.