Book smarts vs. Street smarts

[Panic]

I see so many posters bragging about their college education and looking down on others who didn't go. Call me crazy, but I'll take the guy who is wise to the ways of the world and can get out there and get things done in a dog eat dog world. I'm not saying education isn't important, but it definately is not the measuring stick for success.

[bigboydan]

Although it's always nice to have both, however put me down for street smarts sir.

[SBR Lou]

I don't feel my Cornell diploma defines me as a person.

[smitch124]

Much of college is indoctrination, the opposite of learnin'

[Panic]

Yes, sir. You want someone to sit behind a desk, enter data, and crunch figures, then a college graduate is your man/woman. If you want someone to pound the pavement and make things shake and move...get in the thick of things. Street smarts are where its at.

[englishmike]

I see so many posters bragging about their college education and looking down on others who didn't go. Call me crazy, but I'll take the guy who is wise to the ways of the world and can get out there and get things done in a dog eat dog world. I'm not saying education isn't important, but it definately is not the measuring stick for success.

Agreed. I've learned a lot more pimping cheap trashy hookers than I could have learned at USC.

[Panic]

Mike, I know alot of guys that have owned their own business' and never even graduated high school. And they have college graduates working for them. Look at some of these guys that go to trade schools. They learned a skill and ran with it. They become independant contractors. Now they make 40/hr as a plumber/electrician...whatever. While a person who graduated college is struggling to make 400/wk coming out.

[smitch124]

Agreed. I've learned a lot more pimping cheap trashy hookers than I could have learned at USC.

Bitches always holding out...

[BuddyBear]

I'm not saying education isn't important, but it definately is not the measuring stick for success.

This is not a very accuate statement.

One of the most consistent and robust findings in the sociology literature is that education is positively associated with income even with every imaginable covariate included in the model.

In other words, go to school if you want to make money.....

[Panic]

Buddy Bear. I've made plenty of money and I didnt graduate from college. My success was not measured by education.

[BuddyBear]

Buddy Bear. I've made plenty of money and I didnt graduate from college. My success was not measured by education.

And your point is?

[Panic]

Education is not the be all to end all. So those who obtain it should not look down on those who don't.

[smitch124]

Those studies are thrown off by the poor that will never make money or get an education and significantly bring down the income of the non-college graduate.

[englishmike]

I learned fvck all but do ok as a painter but if I'm honest I regretnot studying harder.

[bigboydan]

Even if you learn all that stuff in college. Who's to say you will use it all during your career. Now thats not very smart is it.

[BuddyBear]

Social Science research doesn't lie. The more education you have the more income you will earn. This is a fact. Yes, of course it is not a perfect linear relationship. Everyone knows someone who is a high school dropout who is now a millionaire. There are plenty of people who have limited education who are very well off.

Nonetheless, education remains your best bet if you want to live a comfortable life financially. People with lower education have less skills than those who have higher education, therefore they are less qualified to work certain occupations and have limited choices in what careers they can pursue.

[smitch124]

Depends on what you do with the time and resources that many spend on college, there are many more efficient (and cheaper) ways to learn and broaden your earning potential.

[BuddyBear]

Depends on what you do with the time and resources that many spend on college, there are many more efficient (and cheaper) ways to learn and broaden your earning potential.

Sure, but anyway you look at it, education is important for financial success. Your best bet in this world for a high income is to have a high level of education. It's very very difficult to achieve any level of financial success without a solid education.

[Panic]

Buddy Bear, I dont think anyone is disputing the fact that college can be very beneficial. As far as, people with lower education have less skills...well, that depends what kind of skills you are talking about.

[smitch124]

Sure, but anyway you look at it, education is important for financial success. Your best bet in this world for a high income is to have a high level of education. It's very very difficult to achieve any level of financial success without a solid education.

I don't know, that seems to be the present mantra, but many college graduates are left holding the bag with big debts to pay and few options. College education is not the automatic be all and end all. Give me someone who has life and work experience for 4 years than somebody who uses words with more syllables and knows 6 ways to drink a beer in less than 10 seconds.

[BuddyBear]

Buddy Bear, I dont think anyone is disputing the fact that college can be very beneficial. As far as, people with lower education have less skills...well, that depends what kind of skills you are talking about.

Sorry, but this makes no sense.

What is that people without a college education can do that those with a college education can't do?

[Panic]

Thats it, Smitch. You tell me a guy who grew up learning how to rebuild engines from his father and then goes onto open up his own garage is less skilled than someone who graduated college? The guy would be his own boss and probably make more money than the graduate when both their careers are over.

[englishmike]

Buddybear: You make some valid points and the thrust of your argument is pretty accurate but never underestimate 'street smarts.' i've met and worked for loads of wealthy and educated types who haven't got a fvckin clue about the realities of life and are in many ways, very uneducated, specifically when it comes to other human beings, the world beyond the USA and the world beyond their next paycheck.

[englishmike]

Thats it, Smitch. You tell me a guy who grew up learning how to rebuild engines from his father and then goes onto open up his own garage is less skilled than someone who graduated college? The guy would be his own boss and probably make more money than the graduate when both their careers are over.

Agreed.

[BuddyBear]

I don't know, that seems to be the present mantra, but many college graduates are left holding the bag with big debts to pay and few options. College education is not the automatic be all and end all. Give me someone who has life and work experience for 4 years than somebody who uses words with more syllables and knows 6 ways to drink a beer in less than 10 seconds.

It's true, that a college education is becoming less and less valuable but that is only b/c so many are now college educated. A generation ago this wasn't the case. That's why the current thinking now is to further one's edcuation with some type of advanced or specialized degree.

Not having a college education is a very very risky proposition for financial success.

[BuddyBear]

Most of college (undergraduate in particular) is pretty useless....but college is some place that everyone should go to just to broaden their horizon and be exposed to new and diverse ideas.

In reality, if one just read all day they would be much much smarter than the average person.

[smitch124]

I've been on both sides of this coin. I have a degree in Physics from UC Davis and worked for Lockheed as an Aerospace Engineer. I've been disillusioned by that, got a degree in Psychology and dabbled in Clinical Psychology for a bit (mostly as an intern) and spent the last 5 or so years working construction. What makes people successful is ambition and drive, and let me tell you the most intelligent people I have met by far have been in the construction field. They deal with problems and road blocks in a much better way than anybody in the other two fields I have worked in.

[Panic]

Sorry, but this makes no sense.

What is that people without a college education can do that those with a college education can't do?

What? So know youre saying well they can learn it in college. Sure. But give me the guy whose been rebuilding engines for 15 years(on the job training) over the guy who learned how to do it from a book. Street smarts.

[BuddyBear]

I am not saying they can "learn it in college"...all I am saying is that if someone who doesn't go to college can fix an engine, then surely someone who did go to college is equally capable of learning to do so as well.

However, since much of college curriculum is remote (i.e. far away from those with "street smarts") it is far less likely that the uneducated would be able to pick this type of stuff up.

In the end, having an education has to be worth something. There is a reason that most jobs require some level of expertise in an academic area.

[englishmike]

I've been on both sides of this coin. I have a degree in Physics from UC Davis and worked for Lockheed as an Aerospace Engineer. I've been disillusioned by that, got a degree in Psychology and dabbled in Clinical Psychology for a bit (mostly as an intern) and spent the last 5 or so years working construction. What makes people successful is ambition and drive, and let me tell you the most intelligent people I have met by far have been in the construction field. They deal with problems and road blocks in a much better way than anybody in the other two fields I have worked in.

The reason for that is they are on a timeframe and have to think on their feet because thinking on their feet is part of the job requirement, if there's a problem it's solved thereand then, no delegating or debating, just fix it and move on.

[smitch124]

The reason for that is they are on a timeframe and have to think on their feet because thinking on their feet is part of the job requirement, if there's a problem it's solved thereand then, no delegating or debating, just fix it and move on.

So true, trial by fire. No time for meetings about it, the sheet rockers are here at 1 PM, find a way to do it. No time for 3 meetings at 5 different levels to decide how to proceed, god that used to drive me nuts

[Panic]

No argument, Buddy. We may have got a little off track here. When I made the thread, I said this was in no way saying Education is not important. I agree with you, it is. It can be very beneficial to some people. Some people its not. I'm not trying to argue that school isnt important. I started this thread for those that thought you were a failure unless you finished college.

[smitch124]

So true, trial by fire. No time for meetings about it, the sheet rockers are here at 1 PM, find a way to do it. No time for 3 meetings at 5 different levels to decide how to proceed, god that used to drive me nuts

the front of my head is actually flat from those years...

[BuddyBear]

You are not a failure if you don't go to college. Not at all. Some people aren't in financial position to go to college and for others they have no interest to go b/c they may be going into the family business. Others may not have the necessary foundation to continue onto college

However, there are consequences for not going for most people. Like I said, research has repeatedly shown that the more education you have, the more income you earn. In other words there is a positive relationship between education (X) and income (Y). This is just the way it is. I am not making any judgment about those who didn't go to college. My mother didn't go to college and I have several family memebers who didn't go either including a grandfather who was illiterate.

With this in mind, it is entirely possible to achieve financial success without any formal education beyond high school. It's not easy to do so and very risky. Generally speaking, education opens up many new opportunities and potential career paths. Increasingly, many employers won't accept applicants w/o a college diploma.

After having tought at a university for 6 years I can assure you there are some pretty stupid people who are now "educated." The best way to further edcuate oneself is to read, read, read, read and read some more. Read anything you can get your hands on whether it is a magazine, a newspaper, a book, etc... You always want to be reading something. Also travelling is a good idea too if possible but reading is the best way to further your education.

[englishmike]

I'm going off topic here a bit but it's kinda related. As an outsider I obviously enjoy living here and have made a life here and will continue to live here, but the one thing I've noticed about many Americans is their lack of knowledge about events and current affairs beyond their own shores. I'm almost embarassed at peoples lack of awareness sometimes and I think you'd be really surprised and possibly shocked if you knew how the rest of the world sees America. It never ceases to amaze me how insular and inward looking a lot of Americans are. The reason i bring this up, and I'm not just saying this to kiss butt, some of the most knowledgeable and informed Americans post on these boards. People say a lot of negative things about gambling but what it does do is give you an open mind and (albeit through sports) a social interaction with other countries and cultures that becomes the norm to a gambler. I deserve an SBR T-shirt for thispost.