Book smarts vs. Street smarts

[SBR Lou]

Every snot nosed kid nowadays thinks if you merely attend college and try your hardest, you'll have some cushy six figure job lined up. That's really not the case at all, the greatest factor in anybody's success is luck. Unless you take a route like going to medical school for years and pay your ass off with debt, but even then you have to be wicked smart.

A HS graduate that busts his rump in a city job or similar labor which requires little schooling, perhaps certification courses at the most, can easily, easily make more than somebody that merely went to college. First of all, a great % of those that go to college don't even come out and apply their 'knowledge' in a relevant field.

Just like every single college kid now wants to major in 'business'.... Good luck w/ that...

[flyingillini]

I might be the only person that has said it means nothing depending on what you want to do with your life..... I am very close to getting my Phd but what I do for a living doesn't require anything. I chose to work for myself and I just like going to school but I am the first to tell you I have never used it and I probably never will. When I hire my employees I look at their experience in the field, my supervisor's have nothing but a high school diploma and are better than some of the on-line staff with masters...I for one just like school and I will always go and won't stop after I get my Phd.

[durito]

Practically every gambler out there could improve their bottom line by learning some 6th grade math, yet almost none are willing to do so. What does that say about us as a group of people?

[Cappy]

I see so many posters bragging about their college education and looking down on others who didn't go. Call me crazy, but I'll take the guy who is wise to the ways of the world and can get out there and get things done in a dog eat dog world. I'm not saying education isn't important, but it definately is not the measuring stick for success.

Once you've "taken" that guy, what do you do with him then?

[Cappy]

Every snot nosed kid nowadays thinks if you merely attend college and try your hardest, you'll have some cushy six figure job lined up. That's really not the case at all, the greatest factor in anybody's success is luck. Unless you take a route like going to medical school for years and pay your ass off with debt, but even then you have to be wicked smart.

A HS graduate that busts his rump in a city job or similar labor which requires little schooling, perhaps certification courses at the most, can easily, easily make more than somebody that merely went to college. First of all, a great % of those that go to college don't even come out and apply their 'knowledge' in a relevant field.

Just like every single college kid now wants to major in 'business'.... Good luck w/ that...

hmm

[topgame85]

Education is important yes, College education - No, you can learn far more reading and studying on your own then attending college where you are fed the views of your professors as FACT, whether it be conservative, liberal, or other it is best to read perspectives from both end of the spectrums and figure out what is the truth and makes the most sense, My ex GF (not the one in the av a diff girl) is book smart and has 0 street sense she cried a million times because she could not fix any problem thinking outside the box or have an intelligent conversation unless it was with liberals who shared the same opinion that she believed 100% because of high school teachers and college professors, a ton of bull shit is taught to todays students and I just thank God my parents taught me early not to believe everything I was told and that nobody is right all the time, noone person. book, idea, or set of teachings can teach you everything you need to know life experience and a personal search is the best way to get to where you want to be

[Panic]

Cappy,sky's the limit. Give me a guy like that and he will do what it takes to succeed. He will have already learned how to adapt and change with the flow. He hasnt been stuck in a classroom for 4 years fixated on one particular field. He has learned what it takes to survive and makes adjustments on the fly.

[BuddyBear]

Every snot nosed kid nowadays thinks if you merely attend college and try your hardest, you'll have some cushy six figure job lined up. That's really not the case at all, the greatest factor in anybody's success is luck. Unless you take a route like going to medical school for years and pay your ass off with debt, but even then you have to be wicked smart.

Not sure what era you grew up in Crazy, but most college kids are just hoping for a job when they graduate these days. The vast majority of them will never have a 6-figure salary in their lifetime, let alone right out of college. Luck certainly is important, but it's hardly the greatest factor.

A HS graduate that busts his rump in a city job or similar labor which requires little schooling, perhaps certification courses at the most, can easily, easily make more than somebody that merely went to college. First of all, a great % of those that go to college don't even come out and apply their 'knowledge' in a relevant field.

Just like every single college kid now wants to major in 'business'.... Good luck w/ that...

To continue to debate about HS graduates vs. college graduates is ridiculous. It's almost as if facts don't matter anymore. All else being equal, education and income are positively related. Put another way, for every year of schooling you have, the more money you earn. THIS IS A FACT. Why even continue to argue it and believe otherwise. Enough about this nonsense that if a HS grad applies him/herself then they can make it....the same holds true for anyone regardless of education level.

[SBR Lou]

To continue to debate about HS graduates vs. college graduates is ridiculous. It's almost as if facts don't matter anymore. All else being equal, education and income are positively related. Put another way, for every year of schooling you have, the more money you earn. THIS IS A FACT. Why even continue to argue it and believe otherwise. Enough about this nonsense that if a HS grad applies him/herself then they can make it....the same holds true for anyone regardless of education level.

Nobody is talking about the HS grads that become millionaires with some genius product. We're talking about every day people, construction guys, city employees, versus the blowhard pipedream college students that think they're going to be the next CEO.

Obviously those in an Ivy league or an extremely rich school likely do well, as those that are connected or know the right people will, but we're talking about regular people here. There's really no definable, bankable advantage to going to most random colleges other than getting yourself into debt, and it would only be an advantage to you spiritually if you're into financial domination as a kinky past time...

[durito]

I went to a mediocre state university and yet most of my friends from college already make over 6 figures before they turned 30. They've probably already worked 40 hours this week.

I also went to an expensive elite high school where most graduates went on to ivy or other expensive liberal arts colleges. Many of them still have no idea what they are doing with their lives (not that there is anything wrong with that).

Education is very important, but it comes in many different forms. I'm struggling through a calculus problem right now i could have done easily when I was 17. I think I actually lost book type intelligence during college, but it was certainly a worthwhile experience. I learned a lot more about networking and meeting people and how to live one's life.

[BuddyBear]

Nobody is talking about the HS grads that become millionaires with some genius product. We're talking about every day people, construction guys, city employees, versus the blowhard pipedream college students that think they're going to be the next CEO.

How many CEOs do you know without a college education? Again, education is your best bet for financial success in this world. So much research has established the relationship between education and income, it's amazing that some continue to believe otherwise.

Obviously those in an Ivy league or an extremely rich school likely do well, as those that are connected or know the right people will, but we're talking about regular people here.

Resarch shows that over the course of a lifetime, there is no statistically significant difference in income earned for Ivy league students and non-Ivy league students.

There's really no definable, bankable advantage to going to most random colleges other than getting yourself into debt, and it would only be an advantage to you spiritually if you're into financial domination as a kinky past time...

Ummmm yeah there is actually. Why is it so hard for people to understand things on here. I am going to say it for the billionth time now, EDUCATION AND INCOME ARE POSITIVELY RELATED They covary or we say they corrlate such that when X goes up, Y also goes up. The more education you have, the more money you make. It's not a perfect positive linear relationship, but the fact remains education is the strongest predictor of income.

If two people are standing next to each, same gender, same age, same race...but one of them spent 4 additional years in college and the other stopped at their HS diploma? And you had to pick which one you thought made more money and had to do this for a 1000 different choices, each time you should pick the better educated person. Even though you won't always be correct, you'll be correct most times.

[Tsoprano]

You dont need to go to college if you already know what you want to do in life, and very well educated in that field. Unless of course what you want to do requires some sort of diploma. Ive never needed any of that and I know many college graduates that are in all sorts of trouble right now that got good grades in good schools (school loans, finding a job, getting paid well, etc etc).

Some of the wealthiest people we hear about didnt care for school (Donald Trump, Bill Gates, etc). Yes, trump had a very wealthy background, but his determined mind and smarts for money made him way bigger financially. Even if you still need some studying done in a certain field, look at what the internet provides for someone.... endless sources of valuable information.



***A college diploma is definitely an advantage, but in this world, there are many paths to financial stability, and fvck anyone who says 1 path is the path for all.

[BuddyBear]

You dont need to go to college if you already know what you want to do in life, and very well educated in that field. Unless of course what you want to do requires some sort of diploma. Ive never needed any of that and I know many college graduates that are in all sorts of trouble right now that got good grades in good schools (school loans, finding a job, getting paid well, etc etc).

Some of the wealthiest people we hear about didnt care for school (Donald Trump, Bill Gates, etc). Yes, trump had a very wealthy background, but his determined mind and smarts for money made him way bigger financially. Even if you still need some studying done in a certain field, look at what the internet provides for someone.... endless sources of valuable information.



***A college diploma is definitely an advantage, but in this world, there are many paths to financial stability, and fvck anyone who says 1 path is the path for all.

This is just bad advice in general.....

[max_asdf]

goto harvard u can make a killing of blackjack tables

[SBR Lou]

This is just bad advice in general.....

Ever notice it's always the people that feel there's only one way of doing things that are never really happy?

I say, to each his own. There's no guarantee of success in this world, no matter what a page of statistics tell you, spend your monies on college to make yourself a better person, not because you think it'll leave you better off than your neighbor. Because if you go into anything with those expectations, chances are your head (and heart) is not in the right place..

[durito]

People tend to base everything on personal experience and the few other cases they hear about on the news or wherever. So, I played at sportsbook.com for 5 years with no problems...they should be an A (who cares if they stole $250,000 from someone else).

Or, hey I saw a story about kidnapping in colombia on the news....colombia is very dangerous everyone gets kidnapped there

bill gates didn't finish college...i don't have to.

i've been stressful without college...no one needs to go.


these are great and all, but buddy bear is completely correct, there is a strong relationship between education and income. it's been studied endlessly. are there exceptions? sure. there are plenty of phd's working public sector jobs making well below what they could privately -- but that's by choice.

it's absolutely correct that with just a college degree it's getting harder and harder to make a good living in the US, but I can't even imagine how difficult it must be right now without one. teenage unemployment just hit a 20 year high, imagine being 18 and just finished with high school looking to find a job to support oneself. then imagine having a kid. health insurance alone would be more than the take home.

[BuddyBear]

Crazyl...just about everything you've said on here is factually wrong. You aren't in position to argue otherwise. You've had your chance and havne't really said anything of note (or of fact).

There are multiple ways to achieve financial success. The easiest way of course is to inherit money or win the lottery or rob a bank if you would like. But the best bet for financial success (in America at least) is education. Education has a positive relationship with income. Sure, other ways work, but education is the safest and the best predictor.

I challenge you to find me a peer-reviewed journal article that says otherwise, or that there are better ways than by education.

[SBR Lou]

it's absolutely correct that with just a college degree it's getting harder and harder to make a good living in the US, but I can't even imagine how difficult it must be right now without one. teenage unemployment just hit a 20 year high, imagine being 18 and just finished with high school looking to find a job to support oneself. then imagine having a kid. health insurance alone would be more than the take home.

Full time construction workers make a very nice living, and if you've got your head screwed on right (pun?) there's advancement in that field.

That's just one example. I'll concede that having "some" schooling will help one get their foot in the door, but again the importance of the degree itself is overstated. I don't frankly give a rats ass about any study conducted on the matter, someone that is a hard worker with a bit of common sense can easily go much further than some nincompoop who solely has a college degree and that's his stamp on the world.

College is most useful when you know precisely what you want to do, and what courses and studies are required. That is whats being missed here. The vast majority of students go into college having no idea what they want to do, and when they are out of college, they merely take whatever is around them.

[SBR Lou]

Not to mention, even if you go into college knowing you want to be a businessman, there are a million little runts just like yourself with the same ambition. So what it comes down to is the quality of the school you attend, connections start playing a part as well, so there are still a vast majority of people who know exactly what they want to do, and don't end up much better than the hard working man across the street who chose not to entwine himself in tuition early on in life.

[durito]

Well, that was kind of the point of my first post, that working hard is just as important.

Worthlessness, the construction industry in the US is contracting right now at an alarming rate, and for entry level jobs you are competing with immigrants who were making $3 a day in their country and are willing to really work their asses of.

I had no idea what i would do with my life in college, it was still a worthwhile experience.

[Panic]

Here's a nice article: Crazyl is said this in his posts as well.




America's Most Overrated Product: the Bachelor's Degree
Related data: Results of The Chronicle Survey of Undergraduate Admissions Officers

Related articles: View all of the articles from this special issue on Admissions & Student Aid

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By MARTY NEMKO

Among my saddest moments as a career counselor is when I hear a story like this: "I wasn't a good student in high school, but I wanted to prove that I can get a college diploma. I'd be the first one in my family to do it. But it's been five years and $80,000, and I still have 45 credits to go."

I have a hard time telling such people the killer statistic: Among high-school students who graduated in the bottom 40 percent of their classes, and whose first institutions were four-year colleges, two-thirds had not earned diplomas eight and a half years later. That figure is from a study cited by Clifford Adelman, a former research analyst at the U.S. Department of Education and now a senior research associate at the Institute for Higher Education Policy. Yet four-year colleges admit and take money from hundreds of thousands of such students each year!

Even worse, most of those college dropouts leave the campus having learned little of value, and with a mountain of debt and devastated self-esteem from their unsuccessful struggles. Perhaps worst of all, even those who do manage to graduate too rarely end up in careers that require a college education. So it's not surprising that when you hop into a cab or walk into a restaurant, you're likely to meet workers who spent years and their family's life savings on college, only to end up with a job they could have done as a high-school dropout.

Such students are not aberrations. Today, amazingly, a majority of the students whom colleges admit are grossly underprepared. Only 23 percent of the 1.3 million high-school graduates of 2007 who took the ACT examination were ready for college-level work in the core subjects of English, math, reading, and science.

Perhaps more surprising, even those high-school students who are fully qualified to attend college are increasingly unlikely to derive enough benefit to justify the often six-figure cost and four to six years (or more) it takes to graduate. Research suggests that more than 40 percent of freshmen at four-year institutions do not graduate in six years. Colleges trumpet the statistic that, over their lifetimes, college graduates earn more than nongraduates, but that's terribly misleading. You could lock the collegebound in a closet for four years, and they'd still go on to earn more than the pool of non-collegebound — they're brighter, more motivated, and have better family connections.
Also, the past advantage of college graduates in the job market is eroding. Ever more students attend college at the same time as ever more employers are automating and sending offshore ever more professional jobs, and hiring part-time workers. Many college graduates are forced to take some very nonprofessional positions, such as driving a truck or tending bar.
How much do students at four-year institutions actually learn?

Colleges are quick to argue that a college education is more about enlightenment than employment. That may be the biggest deception of all. Often there is a Grand Canyon of difference between the reality and what higher-education institutions, especially research ones, tout in their viewbooks and on their Web sites. Colleges and universities are businesses, and students are a cost item, while research is a profit center. As a result, many institutions tend to educate students in the cheapest way possible: large lecture classes, with necessary small classes staffed by rock-bottom-cost graduate students. At many colleges, only a small percentage of the typical student's classroom hours will have been spent with fewer than 30 students taught by a professor, according to student-questionnaire data I used for my book How to Get an Ivy League Education at a State University. When students at 115 institutions were asked what percentage of their class time had been spent in classes of fewer than 30 students, the average response was 28 percent.

That's not to say that professor-taught classes are so worthwhile. The more prestigious the institution, the more likely that faculty members are hired and promoted much more for their research than for their teaching. Professors who bring in big research dollars are almost always rewarded more highly than a fine teacher who doesn't bring in the research bucks. Ernest L. Boyer, the late president of the Carnegie Foundation for the Advancement of Teaching, used to say that winning the campus teaching award was the kiss of death when it came to tenure. So, no surprise, in the latest annual national survey of freshmen conducted by the Higher Education Research Institute at the University of California at Los Angeles, 44.6 percent said they were not satisfied with the quality of instruction they received. Imagine if that many people were dissatisfied with a brand of car: It would quickly go off the market. Colleges should be held to a much higher standard, as a higher education costs so much more, requires years of time, and has so much potential impact on your life. Meanwhile, 43.5 percent of freshmen also reported "frequently" feeling bored in class, the survey found.

College students may be dissatisfied with instruction, but, despite that, do they learn? A 2006 study supported by the Pew Charitable Trusts found that 50 percent of college seniors scored below "proficient" levels on a test that required them to do such basic tasks as understand the arguments of newspaper editorials or compare credit-card offers. Almost 20 percent of seniors had only basic quantitative skills. The students could not estimate if their car had enough gas to get to the gas station.

Unbelievably, according to the Spellings Report, which was released in 2006 by a federal commission that examined the future of American higher education, things are getting even worse: "Over the past decade, literacy among college graduates has actually declined. … According to the most recent National Assessment of Adult Literacy, for instance, the percentage of college graduates deemed proficient in prose literacy has actually declined from 40 to 31 percent in the past decade. … Employers report repeatedly that many new graduates they hire are not prepared to work, lacking the critical thinking, writing and problem-solving skills needed in today's workplaces."

What must be done to improve undergraduate education?

Colleges should be held at least as accountable as tire companies are. When some Firestone tires were believed to be defective, government investigations, combined with news-media scrutiny, led to higher tire-safety standards. Yet year after year, colleges and universities turn out millions of defective products: students who drop out or graduate with far too little benefit for the time and money spent. Not only do colleges escape punishment, but they are rewarded with taxpayer-financed student grants and loans, which allow them to raise their tuitions even more.

I ask colleges to do no more than tire manufacturers are required to do. To be government-approved, all tires must have — prominently molded into the sidewall — some crucial information, including ratings of tread life, temperature resistance, and traction compared with national benchmarks.

Going significantly beyond the recommendations in the Spellings report, I believe that colleges should be required to prominently report the following data on their Web sites and in recruitment materials:


Value added. A national test, which could be developed by the major testing companies, should measure skills important for responsible citizenship and career success. Some of the test should be in career contexts: the ability to draft a persuasive memo, analyze an employer's financial report, or use online research tools to develop content for a report.

Just as the No Child Left Behind Act mandates strict accountability of elementary and secondary schools, all colleges should be required to administer the value-added test I propose to all entering freshmen and to students about to graduate, and to report the mean value added, broken out by precollege SAT scores, race, and gender. That would strongly encourage institutions to improve their undergraduate education and to admit only students likely to derive enough benefit to justify the time, tuition, and opportunity costs. Societal bonus: Employers could request that job applicants submit the test results, leading to more-valid hiring decisions.


The average cash, loan, and work-study financial aid for varying levels of family income and assets, broken out by race and gender. And because some colleges use the drug-dealer scam — give the first dose cheap and then jack up the price — they should be required to provide the average not just for the first year, but for each year.


Retention data: the percentage of students returning for a second year, broken out by SAT score, race, and gender.


Safety data: the percentage of an institution's students who have been robbed or assaulted on or near the campus.


The four-, five-, and six-year graduation rates, broken out by SAT score, race, and gender. That would allow institutions to better document such trends as the plummeting percentage of male graduates in recent years.


Employment data for graduates: the percentage of graduates who, within six months of graduation, are in graduate school, unemployed, or employed in a job requiring college-level skills, along with salary data.


Results of the most recent student-satisfaction survey, to be conducted by the institutions themselves.


The most recent accreditation report. The college could include the executive summary only in its printed recruitment material, but it would have to post the full report on its Web site.

Being required to conspicuously provide this information to prospective students and parents would exert long-overdue pressure on colleges to improve the quality of undergraduate education. What should parents and guardians of prospective students do?


If your child's high-school grades and test scores are in the bottom half for his class, resist the attempts of four-year colleges to woo him. Colleges make money whether or not a student learns, whether or not she graduates, and whether or not he finds good employment. Let the buyer beware. Consider an associate-degree program at a community college, or such nondegree options as apprenticeship programs (see http://www.khake.com), shorter career-preparation programs at community colleges, the military, and on-the-job training, especially at the elbow of a successful small-business owner.


If your student is in the top half of her high-school class and is motivated to attend college for reasons other than going to parties and being able to say she went to college, have her apply to perhaps a dozen colleges. Colleges vary less than you might think (at least on factors you can readily discern in the absence of the accountability requirements I advocate above), yet financial-aid awards can vary wildly. It's often wise to choose the college that requires you to pay the least cash and take out the smallest loan. College is among the few products that don't necessarily give you what you pay for — price does not indicate quality.


If your child is one of the rare breed who knows what he wants to do and isn't unduly attracted to academics or to the Animal House environment that characterizes many college-living arrangements, then take solace in the fact that countless other people have successfully taken the noncollege road less traveled. Some examples: Maya Angelou, David Ben-Gurion, Richard Branson, Coco Chanel, Walter Cronkite, Michael Dell, Walt Disney, Thomas Edison, Henry Ford, Bill Gates, Alex Haley, Ernest Hemingway, Wolfgang Puck, John D. Rockefeller Sr., Ted Turner, Frank Lloyd Wright, and nine U.S. presidents, from Washington to Truman.

College is a wise choice for far fewer people than are currently encouraged to consider it. It's crucial that they evenhandedly weigh the pros and cons of college versus the aforementioned alternatives. The quality of their lives may depend on that choice.

Marty Nemko is a career counselor based in Oakland, Calif., and has been an education consultant to 15 college presidents. He is author of four books, including The All-in-One College Guide: A Consumer Activist's Guide to Choosing a College (Barron's, 2004).


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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[Willie Bee]

What is that people without a college education can do that those with a college education can't do?

You guys are arguing apples and oranges. You can better yourself by continuing your education, but it simply does not make you better than everyone else. Does having a college degree help to increase your income? Yes, I think it does. Does it make you necessarily any smarter or more capable than someone who doesn't? No, I don't think it does.

If your AC or heater goes out at home, who are you going to call, the guy with the PhD in Literature or the certified electrician? Conversely, if you're looking to discuss and debate the meaning of Milton's Paradise Lost, you're more likely to have an intelligent discussion with a Lit major than the electrician.

[Tsoprano]

This is just bad advice in general.....

Why...

Because I disagree with you? So your sayiong without being in the lecture halls, you are doomed for a less successful life???

For someone who gambles you should know you cant judge a situation entirely because of a statistic.

Im not telling people to drop out or not attend school, im saying you can not put a label on people who simply chose another path. Yes, many people skip school for ridiculous reasons, however, me and many other Americans have "made it" just fine. And no, Gambling is NOT the way to make it.

[BuddyBear]

Why...

Because I disagree with you? So your sayiong without being in the lecture halls, you are doomed for a less successful life???

For someone who gambles you should know you cant judge a situation entirely because of a statistic.

Im not telling people to drop out or not attend school, im saying you can not put a label on people who simply chose another path. Yes, many people skip school for ridiculous reasons, however, me and many other Americans have "made it" just fine. And no, Gambling is NOT the way to make it.

No, it's bad advice b/c education is positively related to income. You continue to hold a belief that is just flat out incorrect. Education is your BEST BET for a financially successful life. Period, end of debate. You can do it other ways, sure...not disputing that...but to continue to believe that education is not the MOST IMPORTANT predictor of financial success is flat out wrong.

If you can show me research that says otherwise, feel free to do so.

[BuddyBear]

Not to mention there are many more benefits from education besides income.

People who are educated tend to be less conservative, they tend to be less religious, they tend to be in better overall health, they tend to have broader social networks, they tend to have a longer life expectancy, etc....

Clearly the benefits of education go beyond just income....

[Willie Bee]

I'm not even going to get into a discussion about whether or not being "less religious" or "less conservative" are necessarily beneficial. They aren't, period, end of debate.

But Buddy, I''d like to know exactly what you mean by 'educated' or 'education.'

[durito]

this thread should be 7 pages long by tonight

[BuddyBear]

I'm not even going to get into a discussion about whether or not being "less religious" or "less conservative" are necessarily beneficial.

Umm okay, take a look at the current war in Iraq. It's hard to imagine a liberal secular individual initiating such a war. Conservtism and religion are two of the worst ideas and are made even worse when compounded.

But Buddy, I''d like to know exactly what you mean by 'educated' or 'education.'

This is a conceptual question. "Education" in an of itself does not exist in the same sense a table or lamp physically exist. Therefore, education has to be measured by some real world indicator. In short, you have to operationalize education in such a way that it can be observed.

The most common measure of education is "years of schooling." A researcher typically asks how many years an individual went to school and that response becomes their "education level" and is treated as such in data analysis. This of course doesn't say whether one learned anything or not, it simply tells you how many years they spent in school. But again, the resarch shows a positive relationship between education and income.

[Tsoprano]

Not to mention there are many more benefits from education besides income.

People who are educated tend to be less conservative, they tend to be less religious, they tend to be in better overall health, they tend to have broader social networks, they tend to have a longer life expectancy, etc....

Clearly the benefits of education go beyond just income....

School is not the only source to educate someone. School is definitely not do or die.

The richest people in this Country never went to college. They had a business and had smarts with money. Not everyone requires taking orders until they are 22 to achieve things their way. Some do need it, some dont.

Either way you are very naive.

[Tsoprano]

No, it's bad advice b/c education is positively related to income. You continue to hold a belief that is just flat out incorrect. Education is your BEST BET for a financially successful life. Period, end of debate. You can do it other ways, sure...not disputing that...but to continue to believe that education is not the MOST IMPORTANT predictor of financial success is flat out wrong.

If you can show me research that says otherwise, feel free to do so.

Im your research pal, im your statisic of the average failure without a college degree. One problem is, I live in one of the richest areas in NYC and I have no problems financially. I am very well educated in most areas. Either way im smart enough to say there are different paths for every. Shame on you for being the "God of success" and how it should be achieved.

[Panic]

Maybe I'm missing something here, but didn't Bush graduate from Harvard, Buddy? How is this argument helping you? You said people who achieve a higher education tend to be Liberal, then you go on to bash Bush, but he graduated.

Is this what you are saying?

Educated=Democrat
Uneducated=Republican

Seems like you're trying to push your political views across now.

[durito]

i love sample sizes of 1


and bush went to harvard business school, thanks to daddy\s connections

[Tsoprano]

Maybe I'm missing something here, but didn't Bush graduate from Harvard, Buddy? How is this argument helping you? You said people who achieve a higher education tend to be Liberal, then you go on to bash Bush, but he graduated.

Is this what you are saying?

Educated=Democrat
Uneducated=Republican

Seems like you're trying to push your political views across now.

Hes the type that always has to be right, his methods and opinions are flawless.

No one argue with BuddyBear and his wonderful researched statistics.

[Panic]

i love sample sizes of 1


and bush went to harvard business school, thanks to daddy\s connections

Would you like me to bring up other examples, durito? Even you would know that there would be little effort involved to accomplish that. And we can guess what side of the fence you play on, no need to keep shoving it out there. You have no idea whether he attended Havard through his dads connections or on his own merit. You have just become accustomed to bashing Bush and do so at any opportunity. But this is not a political thread so lets stick to the topic at hand, shall we.

[jjgold]

educated people run the world
Educated people end up with the power jobs
Educated people for the most part make better decisions than non educated people
Educated people do not have better family backrounds and foundations
I can go on and on