Warning - Never play Blackjack on Pinnacle

[bigboydan]

the only advantage your gonna have in Black Jack, is if your a card counter playing in a live game at a casino. these online casinos can set there s/w at anything they damn well please. and, without anything being really regulated. they can get away with it.

even on the older style poker machines you see in your local bars and pool halls. those old modulator boards can be manipulated, and set to pay off as low as 70% by the ower/oweners of the machine. plus, those owers reset those machines so often, you won't pay off the way it's suppose it. not to mention, most bar owners have people modify that modulator type chip in the thing. and, can set it to pay out as low as a 35% clip.

[RamblinRoyce]

where did you come from raiders? Are you just trying to stir the waters more? Please don't say "It's mathematically impossible to win at blackjack" ... sigh, i;m not gettin into this... you're too late for this thread *yawn*

[HAPPY BOY]

Isetap I see a bad moon a rising if you keep betting 2k on one hand i dont give a damn how much cabbage you got in your account. you better have fvcking Oprah money or your ass is gonna be eating cat food some day. Just an opinion is all.

[isetcap]

my plays are much more calculated than your opinions and they have kept me in early retirement for the last 3 years.

at this point in time that bad moon won't be rising. i am well diversified. thanks for your concern though. royce will be happy to accept the cat food if you have some extra cans you can spare.

[HAPPY BOY]

Im glad may u continue on your early retirement u seem to have it together.

[RamblinRoyce]

dude, you got some extra cat food! give it up!

'After Review of the bets placed at the casino...the call stands. RIGGED.'

[imgv94]

my plays are much more calculated than your opinions and they have kept me in early retirement for the last 3 years.

at this point in time that bad moon won't be rising. i am well diversified. thanks for your concern though. royce will be happy to accept the cat food if you have some extra cans you can spare.

MAY I HAVE EVERYONES ATTENTION PLEASE!!
Ok isetcap I am starting to wonder how
legit you are. All i have been seeing from you is you
bragging about how rich you are and how you bet 2k a
hand here 4k a hand there. Ok If you are so rich than send
me,and 3 other people on here some money! prove that
you are rich. send us $ 200. $200 isn't that much for
you right?It's chump change for someone who bets 8k a
hand in blackjack.Put your $ where your mouth is. Bet
you don't-Guaranteed you come with some
excuse to not pay up.Lets hear it? I have a feeling you won't
be on this forum too much longer.My Experience Tells Me
that people that brag about having money are the ones
that don't. I think your a fraud and I think you will
prove it.Well lets see.If you do send the money than I will be stood corrected and will say sorry 2 you and u will have everyones respect. And the thought of you being a fraud
will be gone IF not your done

[tacomax]

Ok If you are so rich than send
me,and 3 other people on here some money! prove that
you are rich. send us $ 200. $200 isn't that much for
you right?It's chump change for someone who bets 8k a
hand in blackjack.

I'm assuming that isetcap plays for the bonuses. Betting big amounts when playing for bonuses isn't particularly unusual.

[isetcap]

LOL. I don't think at any point in time I have bragged about how rich I am. That wouldn't really make sense since I am not.

Now concerning your notion about payment to other individuals on this forum. I am very interested in doing something to that effect, but it will not be in the form of a gift and it will not be put into play at casinos. I've already got them taken care of. In fact, I am thinking of a larger dollar amount and you are at the top of my list. I want you to tell me who you think the other person should be (funding 3 other people is not in my interests) and I will let you know who else I think should take part. Then all 3 of us will have a meeting and discuss the details.

[imgv94]

LOL. I don't think at any point in time I have bragged about how rich I am. That wouldn't really make sense since I am not.

Now concerning your notion about payment to other individuals on this forum. I am very interested in doing something to that effect, but it will not be in the form of a gift and it will not be put into play at casinos. I've already got them taken care of. In fact, I am thinking of a larger dollar amount and you are at the top of my list. I want you to tell me who you think the other person should be (funding 3 other people is not in my interests) and I will let you know who else I think should take part. Then all 3 of us will have a meeting and discuss the details.

Well If that happens then I am sorry,Betting 8k a hand
on blackjack is something only someone who's
finances are immense. There is a difference between
being rich and wealthy, Shaq and Jordan,will never
be broke. NEVER. there's no way you can make them
broke. They will be receiving big checks forever. Now
someones who is rich, could lose all his money with
a crazy summer and a drug addiction. Nonetheless I am
by no means rich and probably wager alot less than the
average person on here. But when I love a game or a horse
I can bet a decent amount. I've posted my bets on here b4.
Well if you are what you say you are than congrats,and
I am not hating, cause I know its possible to make $
in this game,but the one thing the average person
lacks and is discpline.

[isetcap]

Most I have ever bet on a hand to start the hand (before splits and doubles) is $2000.

I am more interested in hearing about your view on my proposition.

[raiders72001]

Rambling Royce- Once again it's mathematically impossible to win long term in blackjack with a reshuffle after every hand. If you want to bet $1000 and let Dozer hold the money and judge then let's do it otherwise STFU.

[SBR_John]

I recall Roberto lost a few hands there and claimed it was rigged.

I lost 30 hands in a row playing and counting perfectly at the Presidental(what a fvcking dump) in Biloxi about 10 years ago. Was it rigged? Well, I never went back to that disgusting pile of crapola that passes for a casino.

But lets face it... places like Pinnacle would never cheat you. They don't have to because they are going to beat you out of all your money anyway.

[raiders72001]

John- Can you tell Royce that it's mathematically impossible to win at BJ with a reshuffle. His math skills are lacking.

[SBR_John]

Actually there are online BJ games that combined with the bonus and rebate do give the player a slight edge if they play perfect basic strategy.

As far as shuffeling between hands; obviously counting does the player no good. I think Pinny reshuffles a 6 deck. There are online games that are single and dbl deck that allow you to play multiple hands and indeed a player playing something like the Revere 4 point card count will have a slight advantage drawing to the latter multiple hands. You can find these games at wizzardofodds.com and other black jack joints.

Otherwise...keep the ole day job.

[AK]

LOL. I don't think at any point in time I have bragged about how rich I am. That wouldn't really make sense since I am not.

Now concerning your notion about payment to other individuals on this forum. I am very interested in doing something to that effect, but it will not be in the form of a gift and it will not be put into play at casinos. I've already got them taken care of. In fact, I am thinking of a larger dollar amount and you are at the top of my list. I want you to tell me who you think the other person should be (funding 3 other people is not in my interests) and I will let you know who else I think should take part. Then all 3 of us will have a meeting and discuss the details.

I would like him on my sheet..

[isetcap]

I'll tell him that. It's the very nature of the game UNLESS the specific game's rules are so favorable that basic strategy provides the player with an overall edge.

For example, and old software provider call Unified Gaming used to offer a set of rules that gave the player a 0.5% edge if the player played perfect strategy. The risk on receiving your winnings afterward is what kept many players away from that action.

To this day, Boss Media (a very highly respected provider) offers a single-deck game through a few choice casino outlets online. The game has the following rules and perfect strategy yields a player advantage of 0.11%

* One Deck
* Dealer stands on soft 17
* Player may double on any first two cards
* Player may double after a split
* Player may not resplit
* One card to split aces
* Dealer always peeks for blacjack (U.S. rule)

This is probably the best rule set for blackjack that will ever be seen at any legit outlet.

So here's the play; deposit a significant amount of money to essentially do away with your "risk of ruin" concerns. I would suggest $50,000. Wager $500 (max amount) on each hand. The outcome does not truly matter as probability dictates you will receive 0.11% on each dollar wagered, which equates to 55 cents per hand. You can expect to be able to play about 250 hands per hour. That will yield a return of $137.50 per hour. In addition to that, some outlets offer comp points which will provide you with an additional 0.1% (or higher depending on your VIP status), effectively doubling your return. Once you've figured all that out, plug away until the casino operator politely informs you your action is no longer desired. I have yet to hear of a case where that has happened though.

[SBR_John]

Thats a darn good post isetcap.

So here's the play; deposit a significant amount of money to essentially do away with your "risk of ruin" concerns. I would suggest $50,000. Wager $500 (max amount) on each hand.

I will say in no way will $50k be enough to handle a heavy draw down playing $500 a hand.

But none the less I think thats one of the better posts at this forum.

[isetcap]

Thanks, John.

With a $50,000 bankroll wagering $500 a hand, your risk of ruin runs roughly around 10%.

If you hit the bottom, then just throw in another 50K, it'll come back eventually. Since the edge for the player, the risk runs down the longer you play. Using this methodology you have a 90% chance of never having to deposit again.

If you deposit 100K, then your risk of ruin drops to below a single percentage point.

Have fun!

[imgv94]

Wow isetcap, Very impressive! This has been a superb thread!! I am
sure everyone has learned alot!! isetcap you are one sharp cookie.
You make it sound easy,which it does sound somewhat simple. I see
you realize math skills have alot to do with being a successful gambler
in any venue. I will say one thing and I know I am right about this, If
u are going 2 play in the casino-blackjack is the only game 2 play.This guy
I know that goes to Santa Anita that used to work for Apple told me
that it is smart to log in and out sporadically while you are playing.Have
any of you heard that? And does that sound like a good idea?

[tacomax]

John- Can you tell Royce that it's mathematically impossible to win at BJ with a reshuffle. His math skills are lacking.

Hope you're reading and learning, raiders.

For example, and old software provider call Unified Gaming used to offer a set of rules that gave the player a 0.5% edge if the player played perfect strategy. The risk on receiving your winnings afterward is what kept many players away from that action.

To this day, Boss Media (a very highly respected provider) offers a single-deck game through a few choice casino outlets online. The game has the following rules and perfect strategy yields a player advantage of 0.11%

[isetcap]

I never have heard of that IMG. I'm not sure what the perceived benefit might be.
Did he describe to you his reasoning?

[tacomax]

This guy
I know that goes to Santa Anita that used to work for Apple told me
that it is smart to log in and out sporadically while you are playing.Have
any of you heard that? And does that sound like a good idea?

The guy you know might have had good results doing that. Someone else might claim that they make a lot of money when they play between 1am and 2am on the third friday of every month. Raiders swears he gets good results while fingering his ass and looking at pictures of male Brazilian volleyball players. But people who claim things like that are usually wrong.

Most things like this can be discounted by simply thinking about them - in this case:

1) Do you think that there's a casino loophole that gives an enhanced return by something as simple as sporadically logging in and out?

2) If 1) is true then it's something so simple it would spread like wildfire. Everyone would be sporadically logging in and out and beating the casinos. Casinos would be going out of business left, right and centre.

isetcap's post is quite correct and is a definate player edge, but the difference there is that the casino knows it's a game with a positive player edge - there's no unknown loophole being exploited there. It's just that most people don't have the balls to put down x250 $500 hands per hour in order to take advantage of it.

And if there really was a loophole which someone spotted, they'd be a pretty sharp player to find it out. And a sharp player wouldn't go around blabbing about the loophole to anyone else, golden goose and all that.

[isetcap]

If you're sitting at a blackjack table in a casino and you experience a bad losing streak, moving to another table will not in and of itself alter your results. Is that analagous to what you are describing IMG?

As taco says, each hand is an independant event. Probability doesn't care if the next hand you play is during your current session or 2 hours or 2 days later.

The only time probability does not play a role is on Chinese New Year when luck takes over completely. If you lose on the CNY then you are simply unlucky and should go ahead and kill yourself.

[juuso]

Heads up isetcap for mentioning bet365 casino in "Euro bookies in USA" thread. I have an account at bet365, but never tried their casino. Went to check their bonuses and they had 100% match bonus up to 100 in $/£/€. I deposited 100, played 1000 2 Euro hands of blackjack and was left with 174. Not a big win, but very easy money for low roller bonus hunters as it's only 10x rollover and BJ allowed.

[isetcap]

Heads up isetcap for mentioning bet365 casino in "Euro bookies in USA" thread. I have an account at bet365, but never tried their casino. Went to check their bonuses and they had 100% match bonus up to 100 in $/£/€. I deposited 100, played 1000 2 Euro hands of blackjack and was left with 174. Not a big win, but very easy money for low roller bonus hunters as it's only 10x rollover and BJ allowed.

Excellent to hear it juuso! Did you take notice of their massive bet limits? Keep in mind when playing blackjack at playtech casinos; you want to always play the surrender game if allowed. You give yourself an extra 0.13% by properly applying the surrender option.

Statistical analysis of your play dictates you should have lost about 8 euro overall (10 if you didn't play surrender). You lost 26 but that is well within the deviation range based on your methodology. Enjoy your new money.

When I play at Playtech casinos, I always play Blackjack Switch when allowed. It is a more sophisticated game than Blackjack, but the added layer of skill required to play allows the casino to offer a very favorable game for the perfect player. If you play properly, then the edge working against you is a miniscule 0.05%. When you pair that with the 0.1% comps you receive, you are effectively receiving an advantage...

This is my favorite positive play in the online casinos. Obviously the return per hand is lower than the Boss play I described earlier, but when you take the other important factors into account you see its beauty. A few rare casinos, Bet365 included, offer Blackjack Switch with a max bet of $2000. Each round of Switch is played as two hands against the dealer's one, which means you are playing at least $4000 per round. Switch requires considerably more decision making and button pressing so each round takes longer than regular BJ, which means you will only be able to play about 200 rounds per hour once you are completely proficient with the game. Crunch the numbers and realize you are wagering about $800,000 per hour. This yields a return of $400 per hour for the perfect player. Contrast that to the $135 per hour at Boss. This play does require $150,000 of ready capital to execute properly. Many rounds are pushes but when the streaks come you feel like you are playing craps.

As an aside, Bet365 can't be used because they do not comp play at their casino.

If there is enough interest in the specifics on this play, I'll write up a more detailed post.

[juuso]

I didn't play exactly perfect strategy on every hand this time. Was bored and wanted to kill some time and have some fun playing. It was a small deposit so i didn't care too much if i win 200 or 176.

I didn't notice the limits as i throw two smallest coins to the table and rebet every round.Took several hours, but was fun.

The second time i tried Playtech software and have to say it's ok. Not nearly as customizable as Microgaming with autoplay and such, but nice graphics and games.

[raiders72001]

Isetcap- Good post. Check out this calculator. I don't agree 100% but it's interesting

Black Jack Calculator

Taco- You still don't get it but it doesn't surprise me. We all know with bonus there can be a player advantage. Your comprehension is bad as we were betting w/o bonus.

Even if you are in Vegas depending on how much you play they can comp you giving you an advantage even if they reshuffle every hand. Look at the calculator. You won't understand it but I'll walk you through it.

[tacomax]

Taco- You still don't get it but it doesn't surprise me. We all know with bonus there can be a player advantage. Your comprehension is bad as we were betting w/o bonus.

Dearie me. Winning the "SBR Assclown of the Year" award is going to your head. I'll re-post again for your benefit, but this will be the last time.

To this day, Boss Media (a very highly respected provider) offers a single-deck game through a few choice casino outlets online. The game has the following rules and perfect strategy yields a player advantage of 0.11%

What isetcap is saying is:

1) Boss Media is a highly respected provider.

2) Boss Media offer a single-deck game through some of it's casinos.

3) Playing perfect strategy there is a player advantage of 0.11%. This is a player advantage without the use of a bonus. This also means that your comment that it is "mathematically impossible to win at BJ with a reshuffle" is complete and utter shit.

I hope this clarifies the situation and I hope that this finally sinks in, although I do have my doubts.

[RamblinRoyce]

Sweet! I love you Guys, but you're straying way off Track. RIGGED.

BTW, I got my money back at CRIS playing $5000 hands of BlackJack and some good streaks. Therefore, CRIS BlackJack is legit and Pinnacle LackJack is just that, RIGGED.

And Raiders, you need to clarify your statements. It is mathematically favored for the house to win if you do not vary your bets, and you never quit while you are ahead. Thanks for the Enlightenment, Oakland Pansy. It's a good thing i know that now cuz I've been betting Millions and Millions of $$$ on BlackJack. And yes, I'm a Billionaire with infinite paychecks.

Good Day.

ATTACK! ATTACK!

[isetcap]

Every time Royce posts he exposes himself more and more. To the point now, that I can't take him seriously any longer.

[isetcap]

Isetcap- Good post. Check out this calculator. I don't agree 100% but it's interesting

Yes, you can count on the Wizard to put good stuff out there. I have asked him on more than one occasion to put peek rules and drawing to split aces on there, but as you can see he has not updated the calculator for 4 years. This is because he wrote this using a combinatorial script and if you add additional criteria, it blows up the number of combinations.

You will notice the greatest factor change is when you move from one deck to two.

Beyond that, if you wish to play BJ in casinos online, then www.wizardofodds.com is the resource you need to use.

Interestingly, he has only one advertiser on his site...Bodog.

[RamblinRoyce]

You're not a true Gambler if you take anything seriously.

And Isetcap, I concede. A man of your composure and wisdom deserves respect and to be regarded as the master of gambling, especially blackjack. Furthermore, your bankroll obviously exceeds mine and others here. I shall bow down.

Here's my analysis. You haven't had a job for three years and as such, have very little opportunities to receive Gratitude or respect from peers and co-workers. As such, you strive to acquire approval at these forums along with many otheres here. But the truth is, well... it's lame. I DO respect you... don't read me wrong and get Defensive, don't start attacking and making personal Slanders, and then curse my name in anger. I'm here to help.

This thread is way off point, and the truth is, if you're a good gambler, you don't need anyone's approval cuz you can go out and buy a whole buncha junk which you really don't need and afford almost anything...without really having to work like the mainstream. So if you win, you got nothing to prove. If you lose, you Post Defaming posts about casinos and people on these Forums and attack others to compensate for your losses and to compensate for a general lack of happiness with yourself....

My exposé ! CheerS!

[isetcap]

excellent post...i'm not sure what you mean when you say your are "here to help" though

[raiders72001]

Taco- Many times you will see that there's a possible positive expectation because they take the standard deviation into consideration. This is why many slots say pays up to 101%. Blackjack is not +even. I guess they didn't teach math at your school.