Worse "big name" coach in March: Self or Williams

[No coincidences]

You expect them to win every year? He's got a title. In his first years at KU, he might have felt some pressure when they lost early. In the last six years - he's got five trips to the Regional Semifinals at minimum. If they win tonight, four Elite 8 or better trips. That's pretty solid for any coach.

Again, they don't hang banners for regional semifinals/finals.

He's had a ton of talent go through Kansas and incredible regular season success. There's no reason they've only been to one Final Four, just like there's no reason they should have lost in the first round in back-to-back years, lost to UNI or gotten their asses kicked by VCU last season.

[No coincidences]

Solid play out of the timeout.

[BigDofBA]

Again, they don't hang banners for regional semifinals/finals.

He's had a ton of talent go through Kansas and incredible regular season success. There's no reason they've only been to one Final Four, just like there's no reason they should have lost in the first round in back-to-back years, lost to UNI or gotten their asses kicked by VCU last season.

VCU has kicked a lot of people's asses.

Donovan lost to Manhattan and Creighton in the first round when Florida had superior talent.

Pitino lost to Morehead State in the first round when L'Ville had better talent.

Coach K. lost to Lehigh this year and a few years ago he lost to Belmont or Richmond?? I don't remember but it was a big upset.

Izzo lost to Butler.

I could go on forever. You can't say someone is a bad coach just because they don't win it all every year. Likewise, you can't penalize Self for getting good players. He gets good players because he is a good coach. People want to play for him.

How can he be a bad coach when he wins his conference every year and has his team in the top 10 going to Elite 8's?

Also, he has hung a lot of banners with all of his conference titles he has.

[BigDofBA]

Solid play out of the timeout.

What about that in bounds play?

[EaglesPhan36]

Again, they don't hang banners for regional semifinals/finals.

He's had a ton of talent go through Kansas and incredible regular season success. There's no reason they've only been to one Final Four, just like there's no reason they should have lost in the first round in back-to-back years, lost to UNI or gotten their asses kicked by VCU last season.

VCU like Butler was a special circumstance Cinderella that happens. I'm not saying that haven't failed in certain situations, but Self is a solid coach. He's done more with KU than Willliams did with 2x the talent.

[No coincidences]

VCU has kicked a lot of people's asses.

Donovan lost to Manhattan and Creighton in the first round when Florida had superior talent.

Pitino lost to Morehead State in the first round when L'Ville had better talent.

Coach K. lost to Lehigh this year and a few years ago he lost to Belmont or Richmond?? I don't remember but it was a big upset.

Izzo lost to Butler.

I could go on forever. You can't say someone is a bad coach just because they don't win it all every year. Likewise, you can't penalize Self for getting good players. He gets good players because he is a good coach. People want to play for him.

How can he be a bad coach when he wins his conference every year and has his team in the top 10 going to Elite 8's?

Also, he has hung a lot of banners with all of his conference titles he has.

As a Kansas fan, you should demand more in the NCAA Tournament. Two first-round losses, embarrassing defeats to UNI and VCU and one Final Four shouldn't cut it.

For every upset loss you can list for the other coaches you mentioned, there are impressive accomplishments and Final Fours to back up their NCAA tourney resume. Self doesn't have that.

[No coincidences]

VCU like Butler was a special circumstance Cinderella that happens. I'm not saying that haven't failed in certain situations, but Self is a solid coach. He's done more with KU than Willliams did with 2x the talent.

Self is only considered a "solid" coach because he hasn't walked the walk in the NCAA Tournament. Given what he's accomplished otherwise, he should be at the very top. His NCAA blemishes are a very dark cloud over an otherwise Hall of Fame career.

[texhooper]

last two games very shaky for kansas against low seeds in later rounds. i understand a win is a win, and advancing is advancing, but man, they do not look good.

[Scuba Gooding Jr]

Kansas only has one high school AA. This was actually supposed to be a down year for the Jayhawks with the loss of both Morris twins, Josh Selby, Mario Little, Tyrell Reed and Brady Morningstar. We lost 4 of 5 starters and still made the elite eight, that's pretty damn good if you ask me.

[BigDofBA]

I've blown a lot of wholes in your argument and I'm not a Kansas fan BTW.

You rip Bill Self for losing in the Elite 8 to VCU.

Why don't you rip Jim Calhoun for losing in the Elite 8 to George Mason? That Uconn team was way more talented than Kansas.

You rip self for losing to #8 seed UNI..

Why don't you rip Pitino for losing to MoreHead State?
Why don't you rip Donovan for losing to Creighton and Manhattan?
Why don't you rip Coach K. for losing to Lehigh?
Why don't you rip Boehiem for losing to Vermont?

Why are all these coaches so much better? They all have comparable losses if not worse.

Self has won conference titles at four different schools, been to five Elite 8s, won 8 straight conference titles, and has a winning percentage of 83%. Ob yeah, HE HAS WON A NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP and Memphis had better talent with the likes of Rose and Co.

I'm not sure what your agenda is here. He just took a team that was rebuilding to the Elite 8. The common denominator with Bill Self teams is that they're always good. Are you an Illinois fan? I could see Illini fans being pissed at him because they turned into dog shit after he left.

Coach K's loss was more embarrassing than any loss Self has had and he is one of the best ever.

[BigDofBA]

Also, this crap you say about Bill Self not being a good coach because he doesn't get to Final Fours contradicts your argument that Roy Williams isn't a good coach.

Roy Williams has been to 7 Final Fours. That's 4th most all-time. Yeah....he sucks too. LOL.

[No coincidences]

I've blown a lot of wholes in your argument and I'm not a Kansas fan BTW.

You rip Bill Self for losing in the Elite 8 to VCU.

Why don't you rip Jim Calhoun for losing in the Elite 8 to George Mason? That Uconn team was way more talented than Kansas.

You rip self for losing to #8 seed UNI..

Why don't you rip Pitino for losing to MoreHead State?
Why don't you rip Donovan for losing to Creighton and Manhattan?
Why don't you rip Coach K. for losing to Lehigh?
Why don't you rip Boehiem for losing to Vermont?

Why are all these coaches so much better? They all have comparable losses if not worse.

Self has won conference titles at four different schools, been to five Elite 8s, won 8 straight conference titles, and has a winning percentage of 83%.

I'm not sure what your agenda is here. He just took a team that was rebuilding to the Elite 8. The common denominator with Bill Self teams is that they're always good. Are you an Illinois fan? I could see Illini fans being pissed at him because they turned into dog shit after he left.

Coach K's loss was more embarrassing than any loss Self has had and he is one of the best ever.

I already said Boeheim could be added to this list, and Coach K has been a disaster in the tournament outside of one year since 2004.

I have no "agenda." I'm just saying that for everything Self has accomplished through the years, there's no reason they've only been to one Final Four other than the fact that he isn't an elite big-game coach. That is all. The track record speaks for itself. You can run through the embarrassing losses for Izzo, Calhoun, Donovan, Pitino, etc. all you want, but the bottom line is these guys have also walked the walk over and over again in the Big Dance. Self hasn't.

[No coincidences]

Also, this crap you say about Bill Self not being a good coach because he doesn't get to Final Fours contradicts your argument that Roy Williams isn't a good coach.

Roy Williams has been to 7 Final Fours. That's 4th most all-time. Yeah....he sucks too. LOL.

You honestly watch these games -- and tonight is a good example on both fronts -- and think these two are clutch in the NCAA Tournament?

[BigDofBA]

You honestly watch these games -- and tonight is a good example on both fronts -- and think these two are clutch in the NCAA Tournament?

Who is clutch?

Name 10 coaches that are better.

I don't think Self is the best coach in the game but his resume speaks for itself. I just pointed out embarrassing loses that every top coach has had to endure. It's not like Self is the only coach at a top program to lose to a mid-major in the tourney. I just gave an example of losses that were just as bad and probably worse by the best coaches in the game.

Self has won every where he has gone and has a title. What else do you want? Does he have to goto the Final Four every other year?

Self has won the Big 12 every year he has been at Kansas, been to three Elite 8s, a Final Four, and won a championship. Meanwhile he has winning 83% of his games. I'lll take that any day.

I don't think you have a team like Tulsa 4 points away from beating North Carolina and making it to the Final Four if you're not a good coach.

Likewise, I don't think you win a national championship either.

[EaglesPhan36]

I still don't see why you bag on Self. Look at his body of work. 13 years as a solid D1 coach between Tulsa-Illinois-KU ... 7 Elite 8s. That's pretty fuckin consistent. People are bagging on this year's Jayhawk squad ... which again makes little sense. This is not that strong a KU squad and they might just make the Final 4. Personally, I think if they make the Final 34 it's probably his best coaching job yet.

[BigDofBA]

I still don't see why you bag on Self. Look at his body of work. 13 years as a solid D1 coach between Tulsa-Illinois-KU ... 7 Elite 8s. That's pretty fuckin consistent. People are bagging on this year's Jayhawk squad ... which again makes little sense. This is not that strong a KU squad and they might just make the Final 4. Personally, I think if they make the Final 34 it's probably his best coaching job yet.

No kidding. This is his worst KU team and all they did was win the conference and make the Elite 8.

[No coincidences]

I still don't see why you bag on Self. Look at his body of work. 13 years as a solid D1 coach between Tulsa-Illinois-KU ... 7 Elite 8s. That's pretty fuckin consistent. People are bagging on this year's Jayhawk squad ... which again makes little sense. This is not that strong a KU squad and they might just make the Final 4. Personally, I think if they make the Final 34 it's probably his best coaching job yet.

Because you shouldn't have records of 33-5, 37-3, 33-3 and 35-3 at Kansas with only one Final Four to show for it. In college basketball, Final Fours and national championships matter more than anything. His NCAA Tournament resume not only doesn't jive with his regular season and overall body of work -- it comes woefully short.

[BigDofBA]

Because you shouldn't have records of 33-5, 37-3, 33-3 and 35-3 at Kansas with only one Final Four to show for it. In college basketball, Final Fours and national championships matter more than anything. His NCAA Tournament resume not only doesn't jive with his regular season and overall body of work -- it comes woefully short.

If that's your arguement, then why do you think Roy Williams is a bad coach?

He is 4th all time with 7 Final
four appearances.

[No coincidences]

If that's your arguement, then why do you think Roy Williams is a bad coach?

He is 4th all time with 7 Final
four appearances.

Because, like Self, he's a sub-par in-game coach who can't adapt/adjust to anything.

Again, if you watched these two games tonight and walked away thinking Williams and/or Self are top-notch NCAA Tournament coaches, I don't know what else to say.

[BigDofBA]

Both are in the Elite 8 and have three national championships between them. If you think they are bad coaches, then I don't know what else to say.

I guess we will disagree. Like I said, Bill Self has a great body of work that includes a title. I would take him at my school.

[casinobones]

Both become stammering, blabbering idiots in March. Teams are always ill-prepared for the tournament.

Boeheim should probably be included on this list too. These guys, despite all of their McDonald's A-A talent, just plain shit themselves when they get far enough and have to do some actual coaching.

I agree with you on Williams,the dumb ass just sits on his hands,never calls timeouts to slow down the other teams run,etc...

[casinobones]

Both become stammering, blabbering idiots in March. Teams are always ill-prepared for the tournament.

Boeheim should probably be included on this list too. These guys, despite all of their McDonald's A-A talent, just plain shit themselves when they get far enough and have to do some actual coaching.

I agree with you on Williams,the dumb ass just sits on his hands,never calls timeouts to slow down the other teams run,etc...

[EaglesPhan36]

Because you shouldn't have records of 33-5, 37-3, 33-3 and 35-3 at Kansas with only one Final Four to show for it. In college basketball, Final Fours and national championships matter more than anything. His NCAA Tournament resume not only doesn't jive with his regular season and overall body of work -- it comes woefully short.

If you're going based on records, then this shit coach list is going to be large.

[No coincidences]

If you're going based on records, then this shit coach list is going to be large.

You mean there are other coaches with well over .900 win percentages four times in major conferences that were ousted in the NCAA Tournament prematurely three of those times? Because I can't think of any to be honest.

[likedatbet]

You mean there are other coaches with well over .900 win percentages four times in major conferences that were ousted in the NCAA Tournament prematurely three of those times? Because I can't think of any to be honest.

Man, you are such a whiny douche. Just b/c you bet Kansas and UNC, they don't cover, you gotta blame the coaches. Cry and moan just a little more; is it that time of the month for you?

[Inkwell77]

If anyone believes that Bill Self is a better coach than Brad Stevens they need their head checked.

No one could possibly say that unless they are a moron. Brad Stevens has 2 final fours and 2 final game appearances at BUTLER and Bill Self has 1 final four appearance and 1 final game appearance at KANSAS. B

[snoopaloop31]

Man, you are such a whiny douche. Just b/c you bet Kansas and UNC, they don't cover, you gotta blame the coaches. Cry and moan just a little more; is it that time of the month for you?

Whose the whiny douche again? gtfo.

[snoopaloop31]

Williams and Boeheim have my vote for worst top name coaches.

[BiffTFinancial]

off the top of my head, coaches that i think are better than Roy Williams:

Izzo
Stevens
Majerus
Coach K
Brey
Pitino
Bo Ryan
Donovan
Buzz Williams
Painter
Boeheim
Calhoun
Few
Crean
Calipari

i'd take a number of those guys over Self too, but i think that Self has done an outstanding job with this year's KU team. i just have a hard time giving a ton of respect to anyone who is on record as saying that he fundamentally doesn't believe in in-game adjustments. Self is top 20. Roy is not. grew up a UNC fan but stopped rooting for them when Roy arrived.

[HoulihansTX]

Bill Self has the be the worst when its comes to ATS records in March.

[YOUNGBUCK]

Whos the top recruit on Kansas right now?

[dmncnlou]

Boeheim, Coach K, Roy, John Thompson, Calipari, & Pitino all suck!

[BigDeem5]

Pitino is the best coach left

[EaglesPhan36]

You mean there are other coaches with well over .900 win percentages four times in major conferences that were ousted in the NCAA Tournament prematurely three of those times? Because I can't think of any to be honest.

Upsets happen. Players play poorly. Other teams have outstanding games. Is Coach K terrible because Duke has lost three times in the 2nd round or 1st round in three of the last six years? I don't think so.

[BigDofBA]

off the top of my head, coaches that i think are better than Roy Williams:

Izzo
Stevens
Majerus
Coach K
Brey
Pitino
Bo Ryan
Donovan
Buzz Williams
Painter
Boeheim
Calhoun
Few
Crean
Calipari

i'd take a number of those guys over Self too, but i think that Self has done an outstanding job with this year's KU team. i just have a hard time giving a ton of respect to anyone who is on record as saying that he fundamentally doesn't believe in in-game adjustments. Self is top 20. Roy is not. grew up a UNC fan but stopped rooting for them when Roy arrived.

You were a UNC fan but quit rooting for them when Roy Williams arrived? That's not called being a fan. It's called being someone that is a bandwagoner. Who do you like now, Kentucky?

As for that list, only 6 of those guys have won a championship and most of those guys have never even made it to the Final Four.

Roy Williams has 2 Championships and 7 Final Four appearances.

You guys are basically ripping Self and Williams for losing in the Elite and Final Four when these other coaches you bring up don't even get there.

All of the coaches you mentioned are good, but I feel all of this criticism of Self and Williams is unwarranted.

If my memory serves me correctly, Bill Self beat John Calipari head to head in the national championship game and Memphis had better players.

I guess Calipari sucks since he can't win in a one-and-done situation. LOL. I guess all of these coaches suck since they have all been victim to the upset.

You guys act like Billy Donovan walks on water and he has lost in the first rounds to teams like Temple, Creighton, and Manhattan.

Pitino lost to Morehead St.

Coach K., one of the best ever, lost to Lehigh.

Calhoun lost to George Mason.

UPSETS HAPPEN! Geez.