Worse "big name" coach in March: Self or Williams

[BiffTFinancial]

You were a UNC fan but quit rooting for them when Roy Williams arrived? That's not called being a fan. It's called being someone that is a bandwagoner. Who do you like now, Kentucky?

As for that list, only 6 of those guys have won a championship and most of those guys have never even made it to the Final Four.

Roy Williams has 2 Championships and 7 Final Four appearances.

You guys are basically ripping Self and Williams for losing in the Elite and Final Four when these other coaches you bring up don't even get there.

All of the coaches you mentioned are good, but I feel all of this criticism of Self and Williams is unwarranted.

If my memory serves me correctly, Bill Self beat John Calipari head to head in the national championship game and Memphis had better players.

I guess Calipari sucks since he can't win in a one-and-done situation. LOL. I guess all of these coaches suck since they have all been victim to the upset.

You guys act like Billy Donovan walks on water and he has lost in the first rounds to teams like Temple, Creighton, and Manhattan.

Pitino lost to Morehead St.

Coach K., one of the best ever, lost to Lehigh.

Calhoun lost to George Mason.

UPSETS HAPPEN! Geez.

i grew up rooting for UNC because my dad is UNC fan. same with the Redskins. watched pretty much every televised game they played from mid-80s through about 1999 (loved those Thursday night Jefferson-Pilot games). i watched the Chris Webber timeout on Franklin Street at a bar and slept in a homeless shelter that night (cops wouldn't let anyone sleep in cars). what happened? i grew up, went to college, now i root for William & Mary and Ohio State because i went to school there (almost went to Duke too, getting over childhood super-fanship is part of being an adult). i've never liked Roy Williams, and i've never liked the Yankees or the Stillers or the Cowboys or Kentucky, and as a gambler, rooting for UNC sucks. i've gradually stopped rooting for them (a) because it was no fun, (b) Roy Williams is a clown, and (c) identifying so closely with a popular persistent fave school you did not attend is just weird. in fact, fighting over fanship and tying up all kinds of emotions in rooting interests in general is creepy.

whatever your opinion is of that, i could care less. go back to picking fights with strangers over shit that doesn't matter.

[BigDofBA]

i grew up rooting for UNC because my dad is UNC fan. same with the Redskins. watched pretty much every televised game they played from mid-80s through about 1999 (loved those Thursday night Jefferson-Pilot games). i watched the Chris Webber timeout on Franklin Street at a bar and slept in a homeless shelter that night (cops wouldn't let anyone sleep in cars). what happened? i grew up, went to college, now i root for William & Mary and Ohio State because i went to school there (almost went to Duke too, getting over childhood super-fanship is part of being an adult). i've never liked Roy Williams, and i've never liked the Yankees or the Stillers or the Cowboys or Kentucky, and as a gambler, rooting for UNC sucks. i've gradually stopped rooting for them (a) because it was no fun, (b) Roy Williams is a clown, and (c) identifying so closely with a popular persistent fave school you did not attend is just weird. in fact, fighting over fanship and tying up all kinds of emotions in rooting interests in general is creepy.

whatever your opinion is of that, i could care less. go back to picking fights with strangers over shit that doesn't matter.

Wasn't picking a fight. Just sharing my opinion.

[No coincidences]

Man, you are such a whiny douche. Just b/c you bet Kansas and UNC, they don't cover, you gotta blame the coaches. Cry and moan just a little more; is it that time of the month for you?

What in the hell are you talking about?

[No coincidences]

Whos the top recruit on Kansas right now?

Robinson I guess, but I know Robinson, Withey and Taylor are all projected NBA Draft picks.

[No coincidences]

I knew cats like Houli and Biff would come to my defense.

[t-wizzle]

No coin you're always ripping coaches for being idiots and trashing their "gameplans" but you never have any suggestions for what you think they should have done instead.

[No coincidences]

No coin you're always ripping coaches for being idiots and trashing their "gameplans" but you never have any suggestions for what you think they should have done instead.

I'm not being paid millions of dollars to come up with said gameplans.

Are you telling me that just because Marshall was out, Carolina should have basically fluked into a win over Ohio in the Sweet 16? Or Kansas just barely skate by Purdue and NC State?

[t-wizzle]

I'm not being paid millions of dollars to come up with said gameplans.

Are you telling me that just because Marshall was out, Carolina should have basically fluked into a win over Ohio in the Sweet 16? Or Kansas just barely skate by Purdue and NC State?

There's no script. That's your problem. You always think certain things are supposed to happen and when they don't you're baffled.

[No coincidences]

There's no script. That's your problem. You always think certain things are supposed to happen and when they don't you're baffled.

So if you're a Kansas fan, you should be OK with one Final Four trip under Self and just chalk things up as things not going "according to script"? I'd say if you win over 90 percent of your games as a Big 12 power four times (not even considering the other successful regular seasons they've had before flaming out in the Dance) and only have one Final Four trip to show for it, that's a little more than just chalking it up to bad luck or extenuating circumstances.

[t-wizzle]

So if you're a Kansas fan, you should be OK with one Final Four trip under Self and just chalk things up as things not going "according to script"? I'd say if you win over 90 percent of your games as a Big 12 power four times (not even considering the other successful regular seasons they've had before flaming out in the Dance) and only have one Final Four trip to show for it, that's a little more than just chalking it up to bad luck or extenuating circumstances.

Do they give trophies out for making the Final Four? I'm pretty sure KU just won the championship 4 years ago. Under Self, the Jayhawks have had arguably the most success in the country. There have been a couple disappointing tourneys but year in and year out they are among the top teams. Was Kansas even really supposed to be a top 8 team before this season? They were expected to have a down year but most would argue that he did a great job with those kids and turned them into a team with a legitimate shot at a title.

[No coincidences]

Do they give trophies out for making the Final Four? I'm pretty sure KU just won the championship 4 years ago. Under Self, the Jayhawks have had arguably the most success in the country. There have been a couple disappointing tourneys but year in and year out they are among the top teams. Was Kansas even really supposed to be a top 8 team before this season? They were expected to have a down year but most would argue that he did a great job with those kids and turned them into a team with a legitimate shot at a title.

Yes, they give out trophies and hang banners for reaching the Final Four.

A "couple of disappointing tourneys"? Self has been at Kansas for eight full seasons. They were upset in the first round in '05 and '06, knocked out by Northern Iowa in '10 and cold-cocked by VCU in '11. Is that not a pattern of underachieving, given all of the regular season success?

[t-wizzle]

Yes, they give out trophies and hang banners for reaching the Final Four.

A "couple of disappointing tourneys"? Self has been at Kansas for eight full seasons. They were upset in the first round in '05 and '06, knocked out by Northern Iowa in '10 and cold-cocked by VCU in '11. Is that not a pattern of underachieving, given all of the regular season success?

OK so this is the fourth elite 8? Is that really that bad? I think a big part of the last two years was that the Morris twins weren't big game players and they were such huge parts of those teams.

You don't need to be getting paid millions of dollars to be able to point out such blatant coaching mistakes which is what you make it seem like. I've never once seen you make a suggestion as to what a coach should have done.

[t-wizzle]

During this same stretch of time, Duke has been to 1 Final Four (the year they won). Extremely comparable pre-tourney success during those eight seasons. Is Krzyzewski a bumbling idiot too?

[No coincidences]

During this same stretch of time, Duke has been to 1 Final Four (the year they won). Extremely comparable pre-tourney success during those eight seasons. Is Krzyzewski a bumbling idiot too?

Duke fans should be incredibly disappointed in their program since 2004. I already posted that earlier in the thread. Syracuse as well; Boeheim's NCAA Tourney record in the last 15 years, sans Carmelo, is a joke.

[likedatbet]

Williams and Boeheim have my vote for worst top name coaches.

God let's bow to your vote and wisdom. Great f'in analysis.

[likedatbet]

Duke fans should be incredibly disappointed in their program since 2004. I already posted that earlier in the thread. Syracuse as well; Boeheim's NCAA Tourney record in the last 15 years, sans Carmelo, is a joke.

You are a f'in genius and god's gift to SBR. I vote we hire you as the new head coach of any of these programs.

[No coincidences]

God let's bow to you vote and wisdom. Great f'in analysis.

Pop quiz: how many times has Boeheim been past the Sweet 16 since 1997?

[likedatbet]

Pop quiz: how many times has Boeheim been past the Sweet 16 since 1997?

Hey a'hole. The man went 32-2 this season. Please stfu already with your back-seat driver logic.

[No coincidences]

Hey a'hole. The man went 32-2 this season. Please stfu already with your back-seat driver logic.

Answer the question.

[likedatbet]

Answer the question.

The answer is it don't f'in matter. In a one-game do or die, anything happens. If you think there is one coach good enough to take a team to win a champ every year, don't you think they would find the mofo and pay him 20mil a year. Insane how moronic you are.

[No coincidences]

The answer is it don't f'in matter. In a one-game do or die, anything happens. If you think there is one coach good enough to take a team to win a champ every year, don't you think they would find the mofo and pay him 20mil a year. Insane how moronic you are.

Big difference between "every year" and hardly ever.

[likedatbet]

Answer the question.

Btw I don't even like Cuse or Boeheim. Matter of fact I'm betting OSU today. But the fact is you are just plain wrong.

[likedatbet]

Big difference between "every year" and hardly ever.

Name one coach that is there every year than a'hole. Enough already you are plain wrong.

[No coincidences]

Name one coach that is there every year than a'hole. Enough already you are plain wrong.

No one is there every year. I've already said that. But when Brad Stevens can get to the Final Four in consecutive seasons at Butler while Self and Boeheim's teams continue to stammer their way to premature exits, you should maybe start thinking outside of the box instead of drinking the ESPN Kool-Aid.

[BigDofBA]

No one is there every year. I've already said that. But when Brad Stevens can get to the Final Four in consecutive seasons at Butler while Self and Boeheim's teams continue to stammer their way to premature exits, you should maybe start thinking outside of the box instead of drinking the ESPN Kool-Aid.

I'm pretty sure Stevens isn't even in the tournament this year.

Butler's talent was underrated the years they went to the title game. Two of the starters off those teams are in the NBA and one starts for the Jazz. What did Stevens do this year when his NBA talent left? He couldn't even when the Horizon league.

Using your logic, Stevens would be a choker since he couldn't win the big game.

Also, Self and Williams get paid millions because they have three national championships and 8 Final Fours between them.

Self makes money because he has won his conference every year he has been the coach and brought a national title to the school. What else does he need to do in your opinion?

Also, I have pointed out on several occasions of big time coaches losing to mid-majors in the tournament. Why don't you rip them?

Coach K. lost to Lehigh, a 15 seed. Does he suck? What about Pitino losing to Morehead State last year?

I agree with a lot of your posts but feel like your totally wrong here.

[No coincidences]

I'm pretty sure Stevens isn't even in the tournament this year.

Butler's talent was underrated the years they went to the title game. Two of the starters off those teams are in the NBA and one starts for the Jazz. What did Stevens do this year when his NBA talent left? He couldn't even when the Horizon league.

Using your logic, Stevens would be a choker since he couldn't win the big game.

Also, Self and Williams get paid millions because they have three national championships and 8 Final Fours between them.

Self makes money because he has won his conference every year he has been the coach and brought a national title to the school. What else does he need to do in your opinion?

Also, I have pointed out on several occasions of big time coaches losing to mid-majors in the tournament. Why don't you rip them?

Coach K. lost to Lehigh, a 15 seed. Does he suck? What about Pitino losing to Morehead State last year?

I agree with a lot of your posts but feel like your totally wrong here.

How many times do I have to say that Duke fans should be disappointed in what's happened to their program since 2004 NCAA Tournament-wise?

The disconnect in my argument is that it's relative to the program we're talking about. When you're at Kansas or North Carolina or Duke or Syracuse, you should be held to an elite standard. Of course guys like Self or Williams or Boeheim or Coach K have sparkling resumes during the regular season and they get 5* recruits year in and year out. They deserve credit for that. But why has Boeheim been past the Sweet 16 twice in the last 15 years? Or Duke once in the last nine? Or Self to the Final Four only once? Most programs would kill to have those expectations and/or track records, but these aren't "most programs" we're talking about here.

[likedatbet]

No one is there every year. I've already said that. But when Brad Stevens can get to the Final Four in consecutive seasons at Butler while Self and Boeheim's teams continue to stammer their way to premature exits, you should maybe start thinking outside of the box instead of drinking the ESPN Kool-Aid.

I got two words for you homie - Shelvin Mack. That man got game.

[likedatbet]

How many times do I have to say that Duke fans should be disappointed in what's happened to their program since 2004 NCAA Tournament-wise?

The disconnect in my argument is that it's relative to the program we're talking about. When you're at Kansas or North Carolina or Duke or Syracuse, you should be held to an elite standard. Of course guys like Self or Williams or Boeheim or Coach K have sparkling resumes during the regular season and they get 5* recruits year in and year out. They deserve credit for that. But why has Boeheim been past the Sweet 16 twice in the last 15 years? Or Duke once in the last nine? Or Self to the Final Four only once? Most programs would kill to have those expectations and/or track records, but these aren't "most programs" we're talking about here.

And how many times do I have to say, real fans don't give two sh1ts what garbage you spewing.

[No coincidences]

I got two words for you homie - Shelvin Mack. That man got game.

And who recruited Mack, Hayward and Howard to Butler?

[No coincidences]

And how many times do I have to say, real fans don't give two sh1ts what garbage you spewing.

Interesting, because I know plenty of fans of these teams who agree wholeheartedly -- as they should, because they're tired of seeing teams roll through the regular season at 33-3 or whatever, only to bomb out when the pressure's on in a one-and-done situation.

[likedatbet]

How many times do I have to say that Duke fans should be disappointed in what's happened to their program since 2004 NCAA Tournament-wise?

The disconnect in my argument is that it's relative to the program we're talking about. When you're at Kansas or North Carolina or Duke or Syracuse, you should be held to an elite standard. Of course guys like Self or Williams or Boeheim or Coach K have sparkling resumes during the regular season and they get 5* recruits year in and year out. They deserve credit for that. But why has Boeheim been past the Sweet 16 twice in the last 15 years? Or Duke once in the last nine? Or Self to the Final Four only once? Most programs would kill to have those expectations and/or track records, but these aren't "most programs" we're talking about here.

The true disconnect with your argument is, the average big-name program fan is happy with their team and their big-name coach. It's the anal-retentive minority like yourself that is never satisfied. Keep it up, we need to change your last name to Santorum.

[No coincidences]

The true disconnect with your argument is, the average big-name program fan is happy with their team and their big-name coach. It's the anal-retentive minority like yourself that is never satisfied. Keep it up, we need to change your last name to Santorum.

I couldn't care less about these programs. I'm not a fan of any of them.

[likedatbet]

Interesting, because I know plenty of fans of these teams who agree wholeheartedly -- as they should, because they're tired of seeing teams roll through the regular season at 33-3 or whatever, only to bomb out when the pressure's on in a one-and-done situation.

That's the beauty of march. It's been that way for years. People like yourself will find anything to complain about and create controversy where there is none.

[likedatbet]

I couldn't care less about these programs. I'm not a fan of any of them.

Well then your opinion truly is more worthless than before.

[No coincidences]

That's the beauty of march. It's been that way for years. People like yourself will find anything to complain about and create controversy where there is none.

Guys like Williams, Self and Boeheim are regularly ridiculed for getting out-coached in clutch situations.

Again, that's the price you pay for being an elite program. I don't blame people for being disappointed.