UFC 223: Ferguson vs. Khabib (April 07, 2018)

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  • Richard Clock
    SBR Sharp
    • 02-09-18
    • 394

    #281
    Originally posted by TPowell
    I'd feel better about a Clark play if I could scrounge up a couple more recent fights because if he is a decent striker and isn't a big lumbering brute, he has a decent shot here to get the KO potentially
    There is a video on youtube of Rod's last fight before fighting in the Contender Series against a 5-4 fighter (last name of Hooben). Hooben was significantly smaller and less athletic than the rangy Rodriguez, but still was able to close distance and win in clinch exchanges against the fence. Rod never fought for underhooks, hand or head control, which are the basics of MMA grappling against the cage. He even conceded a few takedowns and was in some precarious situations on his back until Hooben went for an ill-advised submission attack (think someone mentioned it might have been a twister attempt) that found Rodriguez on top. Rod was just too heavy for Hooben and it seemed like Hooben (5-4 MMA record for a reason) lost his gas tank after losing top position.

    After watching the limited Rod tape, my assumption was that Clark would show enough as a grappler in his recent fights to warrant a potential play on Clark, but I saw enough glaring holes in his game where I am staying away at these odds. My lean would actually be a bet on Rodriguez at plus odds if the odds permit it. I see this as close to a 50-50 fight. Despite having a wrestling background, Clark has shown poorly in that area vs Collier and Jan. Collier consistently won the udnerhook battle and reversed position in the clinch despite Clark initiating those exchanges. Clark's main success as a wrestler in that fight was due to an ill-advised standing submission attempt by an exhausted Collier, who was vastly inferior athletically and seemed to be in significantly worse shape than Clark.
    Clark really struggled in grappling against the underrated and skilled Jan, once again losing the underhook battle in the clinch consistently and getting taken down himself. Clark has a 32% takedown success rate overall per UFC stats. He just isn't as good in this area as you may think, and needs his opponent to be severely inferior technically (which is hard to find at the UFC level) and/or athletically lacking to consistently land takedowns, which his pretty exclusive pathway to winning. While Rodriguez showed a lack of experience in the wrestling department in that recent fight vs Hooben, he will come into this fight with a severe reach advantage, is reasonably explosive and athletic, fights for a good camp and has a severe striking advantage. Clark has a 54% striking success rate, but this number is a bit misleading, as most of his strikes have some in the clinch and on the ground where successful strikes are easier to pile up. Clark has shown a particular vulnerability to be countered when trying to enter grappling range, using very little footwork and general craft. His striking lacks diversity and he tends to plod forward with robotic pot shots, relying on athleticism and explosiveness to grab a hold of you rather than any craft. But again, when he does grab a hold of you he struggles to score takedowns with any regularity. His striking defense is a poor 42%, per UFC stats. We haven't seen much of Rodriguez, but I was much more impressed with his striking technique and diversity of striking in the small sample size. He can very easily catch Clark as he tries to awkwardly enter into Rod's range. Whether Rod has improved in the clinch game is unknown, however I haven't seen enough from the supposedly more talented wrestler in Clark to assume he will impose his will in this area. Where msot of my confidence lies in this fight is Rodriguez's ability to outpoint Clark a majority of the time if this fight stays on the feet.
    Last edited by Richard Clock; 04-05-18, 08:23 PM.
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    • Shagdogy
      SBR MVP
      • 06-16-10
      • 3564

      #282
      Originally posted by Richard Clock
      There is a video on youtube of Rod's last fight before fighting in the Contender Series against a 5-4 fighter (last name of Hooben). Hooben was significantly smaller and less athletic than the rangy Rodriguez, but still was able to close distance and win in clinch exchanges against the fence. Rod never fought for underhooks, hand or head control, which are the basics of MMA grappling against the cage. He even conceded a few takedowns and was in some precarious situations on his back until Hooben went for an ill-advised submission attack (think someone mentioned it might have been a twister attempt) that found Rodriguez on top. Rod was just too heavy for Hooben and it seemed like Hooben (5-4 MMA record for a reason) lost his gas tank after losing top position.

      After watching the limited Rod tape, my assumption was that Clark would show enough as a grappler in his recent fights to warrant a potential play on Clark, but I saw enough glaring holes in his game where I am staying away at these odds. My lean would actually be a bet on Rodriguez at plus odds if the odds permit it. I see this as close to a 50-50 fight. Despite having a wrestling background, Clark has shown poorly in that area vs Collier and Jan. Collier consistently won the udnerhook battle and reversed position in the clinch despite Clark initiating those exchanges. Clark's main success as a wrestler in that fight was due to an ill-advised standing submission attempt by an exhausted Collier, who was vastly inferior athletically and seemed to be in significantly worse shape than Clark.
      Clark really struggled in grappling against the underrated and skilled Jan, once again losing the underhook battle in the clinch consistently and getting taken down himself. Clark has a 32% takedown success rate overall per UFC stats. He just isn't as good in this area as you may think, and needs his opponent to be severely inferior technically (which is hard to find at the UFC level) and/or athletically lacking to consistently land takedowns, which his pretty exclusive pathway to winning. While Rodriguez showed a lack of experience in the wrestling department in that recent fight vs Hooben, he will come into this fight with a severe reach advantage, is reasonably explosive and athletic, fights for a good camp and has a severe striking advantage. Clark has a 54% striking success rate, but this number is a bit misleading, as most of his strikes have some in the clinch and on the ground where successful strikes are easier to pile up. Clark has shown a particular vulnerability to be countered when trying to enter grappling range, using very little footwork and general craft. His striking lacks diversity and he tends to plod forward with robotic pot shots, relying on athleticism and explosiveness to grab a hold of you rather than any craft. But again, when he does grab a hold of you he struggles to score takedowns with any regularity. His striking defense is a poor 42%, per UFC stats. We haven't seen much of Rodriguez, but I was much more impressed with his striking technique and diversity of striking in the small sample size. He can very easily catch Clark as he tries to awkwardly enter into Rod's range. Whether Rod has improved in the clinch game is unknown, however I haven't seen enough from the supposedly more talented wrestler in Clark to assume he will impose his will in this area. Where msot of my confidence lies in this fight is Rodriguez's ability to outpoint Clark a majority of the time if this fight stays on the feet.
      I like the over 1.5 -150 in this matchup. I think it holds value. I think MRod is actually a pretty patient striker despite his numerous 1st round victories (maybe a product of the terrible competition he has faced), and I believe Clark will fight a cautious game where he only enters into danger for brief moments as he goes from all the way out to all the way in. MRod will have to time him up perfectly and land one clean to put Clark out. Clark has shown a solid chin at 205, and from what I've seen I don't think MRod holds game changing power in his hands in the standup game. In GnP, sure, but he has to get Clark on his back. And flying knees? Yeah, always, but he has to time it up perfectly and you better believe Clark will be cautious of it.

      If Clark doesn't consistently ground MRod then I do think MRod can pull off a decision victory if he doesn't get the finish. However, that is only IF his cardio is up to par, which is a huge question mark given that he has never fought in the UFC (adrenaline dump?) and lost the only fight he has ever gone to the 3rd round in.

      You like the over?
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      • Kermit
        BARRELED IN @ SBR!
        • 09-27-10
        • 32555

        #283
        Brett Okamoto @bokamotoESPN



        Per sources, Chiesa/Pettis and Borg/Moreno are both off. Chiesa’s facial cuts, and his weight cut was thrown off. Borg started to experience problems with his eye, from the particles of glass.
        9:28 PM - Apr 5, 2018
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        • JIBBBY
          SBR Aristocracy
          • 12-10-09
          • 83686

          #284
          Bad match up for Anthony Pettis.. http://www.espn.com/mma/story/_/id/2...e-ufc-223-bout

          Chiesa will close distance, grind and take AP down.. Anthony Pettis doesn't have the best TD defense either. Wrestlers is his Kriptonite.. Chiesa by sub has to be the call when this fight goes down..

          Just read you guys talking about this..^^^^


          Well Kermy that's a scratch just like that.. Pettis just dodged a bullet IMO.....
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          • Kermit
            BARRELED IN @ SBR!
            • 09-27-10
            • 32555

            #285
            Originally posted by JIBBBY
            Bad match up for Anthony Pettis.. http://www.espn.com/mma/story/_/id/2...e-ufc-223-bout

            Chiesa will close distance, grind and take AP down.. Anthony Pettis doesn't have the best TD defense either. Wrestlers is his Kriptonite.. Chiesa by sub has to be the call when this fight goes down..

            Just read you guys talking about this..^^^^
            Chiesa is out.

            Michael Chiesa is off Saturday's UFC 223 card after he suffered multiple cuts from today's attack on a bus by Conor McGregor and his team. Chiesa (14-3 MMA, 7-3 UFC) was scheduled to fight Anthony Pettis (20-7 MMA, 7-6 UFC) on the UFC 223 main card, which…
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            • JIBBBY
              SBR Aristocracy
              • 12-10-09
              • 83686

              #286
              Originally posted by Kermit
              Yup I edited my above post. Saw that..
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              • Shagdogy
                SBR MVP
                • 06-16-10
                • 3564

                #287
                3 fights scrapped. Absolutely ridiculous.
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                • Kermit
                  BARRELED IN @ SBR!
                  • 09-27-10
                  • 32555

                  #288
                  Originally posted by Shagdogy
                  3 fights scrapped. Absolutely ridiculous.
                  And people think the UFC staged this.
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                  • JIBBBY
                    SBR Aristocracy
                    • 12-10-09
                    • 83686

                    #289
                    Originally posted by Shagdogy
                    3 fights scrapped. Absolutely ridiculous.
                    Scratches happen in every event these days.. Get use to it Shag.. ..
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                    • Richard Clock
                      SBR Sharp
                      • 02-09-18
                      • 394

                      #290
                      Originally posted by Shagdogy
                      I like the over 1.5 -150 in this matchup. I think it holds value. I think MRod is actually a pretty patient striker despite his numerous 1st round victories (maybe a product of the terrible competition he has faced), and I believe Clark will fight a cautious game where he only enters into danger for brief moments as he goes from all the way out to all the way in. MRod will have to time him up perfectly and land one clean to put Clark out. Clark has shown a solid chin at 205, and from what I've seen I don't think MRod holds game changing power in his hands in the standup game. In GnP, sure, but he has to get Clark on his back. And flying knees? Yeah, always, but he has to time it up perfectly and you better believe Clark will be cautious of it.

                      If Clark doesn't consistently ground MRod then I do think MRod can pull off a decision victory if he doesn't get the finish. However, that is only IF his cardio is up to par, which is a huge question mark given that he has never fought in the UFC (adrenaline dump?) and lost the only fight he has ever gone to the 3rd round in.

                      You like the over?
                      I'm worried about paying that much juice when we are dealing with 2 light-heavyweights and there is a particular potential here for a flash KO. After watching Clark's tape, I think Rod by decision at +540 is somewhat intriguing if you want to bet on this fight lasting longer than expected. I'd much prefer just taking Rod ML if it moves into the +120 range. Clark may have the intention to fight patiently initially, but Clark's tendency to explode straight into grappling range and swing wildly has the potential to create wild striking exchanges and someone getting caught, likely Clark due to Rod's superior reach and technique.

                      I am not as worried about Rod's cardio, as he is not a particularly muscular and appears to be economical in his expenditure of energy as a striker. If anyone has the potential to gas, it is probably Clark, who will need to expend a ton of energy trying to get into Rod's range and will get peppered on the way into grappling range, which also can sap your energy.

                      I tend to think that a fighter's cardio is much more circumstantial than people think. To me, a huge reason why Clark's cardio looked so good vs Collier was that Collier couldn't mount enough offense to make Clark uncomfortable and force scenarios and positions unfamiliar to Clark.
                      Collier landed next to nothing on the feet, didn't truly threaten with his own takedowns or force scrambles, and Collier's own fitness level was poor. On the other end, you probably would have seen a much more tired Clark in that 3rd round vs Jan. Clark's muscular frame makes me hesitant. I'm not confident enough in Clark's cardio one way or another for me to think that a significant advantage in cardio exists for either fighter.
                      Last edited by Richard Clock; 04-05-18, 09:05 PM.
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                      • Shagdogy
                        SBR MVP
                        • 06-16-10
                        • 3564

                        #291
                        Originally posted by JIBBBY
                        Scratches happen in every event these days.. Get use to it Shag.. ..
                        This might be a little out of the ordinary... just a little?
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                        • blazes_bff
                          SBR Rookie
                          • 03-13-15
                          • 35

                          #292
                          5 Dimes- Khabib ITD is +110. Mistake?
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                          • JIBBBY
                            SBR Aristocracy
                            • 12-10-09
                            • 83686

                            #293
                            Originally posted by Shagdogy
                            This might be a little out of the ordinary... just a little?
                            Usually 1 or 2 but not 3 I agree.
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                            • Shagdogy
                              SBR MVP
                              • 06-16-10
                              • 3564

                              #294
                              Originally posted by JIBBBY
                              Usually 1 or 2 but not 3 I agree.
                              Keep in mind this is all prior to weigh ins. We have seen 2-3 people miss weight before on a single card... Khabib and Max both questionable there... Joanna has had bad cuts... fingers crossed the rest of them get through to their fights.
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                              • JIBBBY
                                SBR Aristocracy
                                • 12-10-09
                                • 83686

                                #295
                                Originally posted by blazes_bff
                                5 Dimes- Khabib ITD is +110. Mistake?
                                I think they adjusted after I showed it was -190 in an earlier post today on this thread..

                                I think the ITD at +110 makes more sense and the fight won't go the distance -165 are legit now...

                                As of this morning both ITD and FWGD props were both set at -190.. I was scratching my head at that..Adjustments were made..
                                Comment
                                • JIBBBY
                                  SBR Aristocracy
                                  • 12-10-09
                                  • 83686

                                  #296
                                  Originally posted by JIBBBY
                                  I'm really thinking Khabib stops Max. 5 rounds is a very long time for someone to get beat up on the ground especially if Max struggles to make weight and isn't trained up.. When you look at Khabib's recent wins some are by sub and by KO so I think ya have to go ITD prop with Khabib.. Ref might stop it if Max is really getting pounded on..




                                  Odds are crap though.. Wanna see something funny compare these 2 props.. LOL...


                                  1009 Nurmagomedov wins inside distance -190

                                  1004 Fight won’t go 5 round distance -190
                                  This was my early morning post when I saw the odds up..
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                                  • rsynweap84
                                    Restricted User
                                    • 06-24-16
                                    • 622

                                    #297
                                    Originally posted by firekillex
                                    lol relax bro
                                    Calm down what? Yer hero wrecks 3 fights in one day after the fact the main event was wrecked and changed to begin with!

                                    Guy has nothing respectable about him now, little enough to begin with.

                                    GJ Conor, thank god we have him in the UFC.


                                    EDIT: Jesus fuccccck! 33 parlays and every goddamn one has cancellations, some my 5 and 4 legs are now 2 and 1 legs...

                                    Death to the man, his bitch, and his kid, I’ll be drinkin’ to it tonight!

                                    EDIT 2: On a bright note while Jon Jones is still a total fuckk up, at least he is second to our new king fuckk up.

                                    Think my hope for sending him to gutters might just come true, list of lawsuits here is potentially endless.
                                    Last edited by rsynweap84; 04-05-18, 09:49 PM.
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                                    • Hugo de Naranja
                                      SBR Posting Legend
                                      • 04-14-16
                                      • 14140

                                      #298
                                      Fuckk McGregor
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                                      • rsynweap84
                                        Restricted User
                                        • 06-24-16
                                        • 622

                                        #299
                                        Hah nypd got him, oyster turned himself in get fooked ya irish prick
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                                        • eidolon
                                          SBR Hall of Famer
                                          • 01-02-08
                                          • 9531

                                          #300
                                          Is Khabib really -400? He has never been the champion, yet he is going in at -400 favorite? is that the biggest contender favorite line in like 20 years?

                                          Not to say Khabib isn't a beast, but that line is very surprising.
                                          Comment
                                          • Hugo de Naranja
                                            SBR Posting Legend
                                            • 04-14-16
                                            • 14140

                                            #301
                                            Originally posted by eidolon
                                            Is Khabib really -400? He has never been the champion, yet he is going in at -400 favorite? is that the biggest contender favorite line in like 20 years?

                                            Not to say Khabib isn't a beast, but that line is very surprising.
                                            Is Max is the most established elite fighter in MMA history to be (+375)?
                                            Comment
                                            • jrgum3
                                              SBR Hall of Famer
                                              • 07-21-17
                                              • 7005

                                              #302
                                              Well this card has turned to shit thanks to McGregor. I usually still watch the fights but with 3 of them scrapped I'll be spending my Saturday night doing something else.
                                              Comment
                                              • rsynweap84
                                                Restricted User
                                                • 06-24-16
                                                • 622

                                                #303
                                                Originally posted by jrgum3
                                                Well this card has turned to shit thanks to McGregor. I usually still watch the fights but with 3 of them scrapped I'll be spending my Saturday night doing something else.
                                                See that shit fire? See what yer fuckion wonderboy did!!?

                                                Legacy biatch!
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                                                • Thrilla
                                                  SBR Posting Legend
                                                  • 03-10-15
                                                  • 13809

                                                  #304
                                                  Originally posted by Kermit
                                                  And people think the UFC staged this.

                                                  People or one clown?
                                                  Comment
                                                  • Thrilla
                                                    SBR Posting Legend
                                                    • 03-10-15
                                                    • 13809

                                                    #305
                                                    Originally posted by Hugo de Naranja
                                                    Is Max is the most established elite fighter in MMA history to be (+375)?

                                                    Carefull to not get influenced by last card where dogs dominated.
                                                    Comment
                                                    • Richard Clock
                                                      SBR Sharp
                                                      • 02-09-18
                                                      • 394

                                                      #306
                                                      Originally posted by Thrilla
                                                      Carefull to not get influenced by last card where dogs dominated.
                                                      When do dogs NOT dominate cards? This fight and line shows just how easily people are influenced by confirmation bias and can get carried away with a hyped up fighter. Holloway is a P4P great fighter, significantly more skilled than anyone Khabib has faced, yet he was given a 20% of winning a fight at one point. I think I saw somewhere online that he has the 2nd lowest probability of winning on the card based on the odds. This is just absolutely insane for me, and it convinces me that people either just haven't watch Holloway's recent fights, and if they have, don't really know what they are looking at. The reality is that people would have put money on Khabib at these insane odds no matter who the opponent was and what the price is. Assuming Khabib will smash every opponent because he is Khabib and has looked indestructible at time is just lazy and not how to be profitable.
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                                                      • ichiro4thehall
                                                        SBR High Roller
                                                        • 12-02-09
                                                        • 244

                                                        #307
                                                        Anybody care to guess odss for Till vs Thompson? Till available at +150 on some Euro books. Seems very big to me considering he is fighting in his home city.

                                                        Very good fight potentially but strange matchup. I always thought the UFC favored Thompson as he has a kind of wholesome, clean-looking image that is marketable but this is a tough fight for him, and a loss really hurts him in terms of getting another title shot.
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                                                        • Richard Clock
                                                          SBR Sharp
                                                          • 02-09-18
                                                          • 394

                                                          #308
                                                          Originally posted by ichiro4thehall
                                                          Anybody care to guess odss for Till vs Thompson? Till available at +150 on some Euro books. Seems very big to me considering he is fighting in his home city.

                                                          Very good fight potentially but strange matchup. I always thought the UFC favored Thompson as he has a kind of wholesome, clean-looking image that is marketable but this is a tough fight for him, and a loss really hurts him in terms of getting another title shot.
                                                          The UFC has thrown Thompson Rory, Woodley and Masvidal, so I don't imagine they are too concerned with padding his record. A win vs Till and Masvidal back to back puts him in near title contention.

                                                          I agree though that this is a strange matchup; I think Masvidal vs Till would have made for a more violent brawl and a more exciting fight buildup. Till has showed promise but hasn't nearly fought the level of competition Wonderboy has, and I don't know if Till presents anything stylistically that will be particularly challenging to Wonderboy. I think we are making a pretty large leap of faith in thinking Till is on the level of Wonderboy, as Wonderboy is as elite a technician as there is. The odds make sense to me.
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                                                          • Kermit
                                                            BARRELED IN @ SBR!
                                                            • 09-27-10
                                                            • 32555

                                                            #309
                                                            Well, Kabib made weight. 154.5
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                                                            • Kermit
                                                              BARRELED IN @ SBR!
                                                              • 09-27-10
                                                              • 32555

                                                              #310
                                                              Originally posted by Thrilla
                                                              People or one clown?
                                                              Several.
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                                                              • TPowell
                                                                SBR Posting Legend
                                                                • 02-21-08
                                                                • 18842

                                                                #311
                                                                I took Thompson at -130. Glad to have the nut line for once lol
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                                                                • TPowell
                                                                  SBR Posting Legend
                                                                  • 02-21-08
                                                                  • 18842

                                                                  #312
                                                                  Someone brought up a good point about Rodriguez conserving energy by being very inactive but I'm not sure Clark let's him fight that way. He'll want to clinch and grind him to wear him down. Clark is muscular but he cuts like no weight for 205.
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                                                                  • Kermit
                                                                    BARRELED IN @ SBR!
                                                                    • 09-27-10
                                                                    • 32555

                                                                    #313
                                                                    Hollaway declared medically unfit to fight.

                                                                    Brett Okamoto @bokamotoESPN



                                                                    BREAKING: Max Holloway has been declared medically unfit to fight. Holloway is out of UFC 223. Per Dana White.
                                                                    9:46 AM - Apr 6, 2018
                                                                    Comment
                                                                    • TPowell
                                                                      SBR Posting Legend
                                                                      • 02-21-08
                                                                      • 18842

                                                                      #314
                                                                      Holloway unfit to fight. My God what a shit show
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                                                                      • turbozed
                                                                        SBR MVP
                                                                        • 10-15-08
                                                                        • 2435

                                                                        #315
                                                                        Originally posted by UncleChael
                                                                        Khabib and his team wanna team up on Artem but hide once a coked up McGregor arrives.
                                                                        Absurd. You really think Khabib needed a whole team to take on Artem? Khabib alone could do whatever he wanted to Artem but didn't do anything but call him out like he was in high school.

                                                                        McGregor came with a gang of 20 thugs to instigate violence.

                                                                        Completely not on the same level
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