My horror with 5dimes.com !!!

[imgv94]

True for 100% of winning wager disputes.

I'm sure you know what I meant with that statement.

Books only seem to notice IP issues,multiple accounts,suspicious behavior etc when someone wins.

When someone utilizes shady practices and lose,books ignore it.

[tacomax]

Books only seem to notice IP issues,multiple accounts,suspicious behavior etc when someone wins.

When someone utilizes shady practices and lose,books ignore it.

Do you know that for a fact? Or do you think it's more of a case that you don't tend to hear the stories posted on forums by people who have lost at a book but have got booted out since there's no financial incentive for them to publicise their story?

[un1bomber]

if thats how tony likes to treat his players he can go fuk himself... I don't even know why this book is rated "professional" on SBR.... clearly a rookie book

[chano]

Bill, whats the latest?

[jjgold]

I wonder if 5 Dimes is broke?

[SBR_John]

What is the low down on this?

[Dark Horse]

I would say God is about to come down to Earth.

You know, not just sending his son would be a step in the right direction.

[tacomax]

Bill, whats the latest?

There are at least a dozen questions at this point. The player is going to provide wagering history and go over the timeline with me. We will talk with 5Dimes as well. Unfortunately this case may go on hold as the player will be traveling next week.

[romaine]

Bill Dozer and I will hopefully get in contact about this matter later on today if I find the time and he is available.

[jjgold]

Lets us know Romaine

Good Luck, hopefully 5 Dimes does the right thing here and pays you.

[Justin7]

Bill Dozer and the player asked me to take a look at this dispute, and to "think out loud". From what I read, here are what I think the facts are.
1. Romaine is a sharp tennis player and was recognized as such by 5Dimes
2. Romaine was dissatisfied with the $100 - $250 limits allowed by 5Dimes on challenger. It appears that he opened multiple accounts for the purpose of circumventing 5Dimes' limits.
3. 5Dimes' software permitted Romaine to place multiple identical $500 parlays on tennis.
4. 5Dimes verbally told him the limits for Challenger Tennis.

What bothers me about this dispute? There isn't a clear right and wrong side.

Romaine comes in with "unclean hands". Professional players know better than to max-bet parlays repeatedly (or even max-betting normally, regardless of whether the software allows it) without contacting the book. He obviously went to great lengths to circumvent 5Dimes' limits. A small market like challenger is easy to beat - hence the lower limits. By using extra accounts, and repeatedly betting parlays, he knew he was in a gray area.

5Dimes comes in with "sloppy hands". Why does their software allow this kind of parlaying? Most sportsbook software allows a book to disable parlays and other exotics for entire markets. The second area 5Dimes was sloppy: why did it take them several months to realize they were getting beaten on parlays? Why wasn't this addressed immediately?

I would look at the first day of betting as a "bad limit", similar to a bad line. 5Dimes wanted to offer $250 exposures, not $5000 (or however much the player managed to bet). Similar to a bad line, it is reasonable to cancel a wager, as long as it is done in a reasonable amount of time. Sportsbooks have a bureacracy, and I realize they might not be aware of the problem for 7-10 days. In the case of a "bad limit", it could be reasonable for the book to go back, and cancel winning AND losing wagers made above the limit. If they caught it in this time period, they probably would not be down much, and might just eat the loss, and fix the problem.

This dispute is much worse though, because 5Dimes waited several months to take action. It cancelled all bets in excess of its limits, which would be a fair solution *if* it were done in a timely manner. They did not, which let them "freeroll" the player.

Both parties are in the wrong. Two things should happen: 1. 5Dimes should make some sort of compromise - perhaps honor all bets that were made more than 10 days before the dispute arose, and cancel the excess ones from the last 10 days. 2. 5Dimse should invest in better software and management. Both of these improvements would have prevented this problem.

2 suggestions for Romaine (and other pro players): 1 if you are going to bet more than the limits, ask the book for permission. I know many people have asked Pinnacle and been told it is ok once they move the line, although many books (including Pinny and Oly) will get mad if you use parlays to "pull a fast one". 2. don't use multiple accounts.

[Korchnoi]

i think one of the most potentially sinister things is 5Dimes allegedly asked the guy to deposit more money before confiscating what money the player had remaining...i’d like to hear you think out load about this too.

[TLD]

Intelligent, well-thought out post, Justin.

I have mixed feelings about it as well, as evidenced in my posts in this thread and when you posed a similar case as a hypothetical in another thread.

In the end, I agree with you that both parties have “unclean hands” and that therefore a compromise settlement is more appropriate than a ruling fully in favor of one party and against the other.

What form that compromise should take I haven’t really thought through. Your speculations on that sound plausible, though for now I’ll reserve judgment on whether that or something else would be the fairest settlement.

[Justin7]

i think one of the most potentially sinister things is 5Dimes allegedly asked the guy to deposit more money before confiscating what money the player had remaining...i’d like to hear you think out load about this too.

Romaine said that, but Tony didn't acknowledge it. I didn't accept that as "fact" (although it may end up being true). If I did accept that as a fact, it would bother me.

[Dark Horse]

What a mess.

The golden rule of betting (to me) is that a bet is a business contract. 5D seems to be willing to breach those contracts after accepting them. An A book doesn't do that.

I always try to judge a book by the mentality at the top, because it will trickle down through the entire organization. I forgot the exact quote, but it comes down to 'an organization being the lenghtened shadow of a single man'. So if a questionable character shows up at or near the top, that's a red flag. Why? Because all rules are open to interpretation, and you don't want some megalomaniac explaining everything in his favor, because he happens to be on some godlike egotrip.

This business is entirely based on trust, and therefore should set the highest standards of honor and integrity. You don't want people that give betting a bad name. A guy like Tony should be doing business in some dark alley; not on a major internet gambling site.

[Arhimed]

IMO, Justin7 is trying to show 5dimes in much better light than they are. The money at Romaine's account is by no mean 5dimes's. It is money which Romaine let 5dimes keep for him, and they didn't have any right to confiscate his money.
Second, I don't know how Justin7 got impression that Romaine opened multiple accounts, Romaine denies that. Even 5dimes didn't make statement about accounts from same ip address or same address.
At the time I enter the submit button and the message from the bookie that the wager is good, there is an agreement between me and the bookie which can be broken only before the start of the game. After that, according the result of the game the bookie should pay my winnings or my bet is lost. Any other action from the bookie is CHEATING.

[Justin7]

What a mess.

The golden rule of betting (to me) is that a bet is a business contract. 5D seems to be willing to breach those contracts after accepting them. An A book doesn't do that.

One of the key elements of a contract is a "meeting of the minds". If two people sign a deal, but one person made a mistake and the other person knew of the mistake, the law lets them out of the contract. That is why the "bad line" rule exists, but the line has to be bad enough that the player knows it is bad.

At an earlier point, 5Dimes could have used a "bad limit" argument... But they waited too long. Once they receive the benefit of the deal (giving the player a chance to lose long-term), they can't cry foul on everything.

[Justin7]

IMO, Justin7 is trying to show 5dimes in much better light than they are... Second, I don't know how Justin7 got impression that Romaine opened multiple accounts, Romaine denies that...

Arhimed, I have a confession to make. I used to be a dirty player. I've used every trick in the book - I've bonus whored, had multiple accounts, double-popped books, and circumvented limits. I've done it, and I can tell when others are doing it. The circumstantial evidence Tony offered is very persuasive to me. Go back and read what he offered. This doesn't mean they are in the right, but it *does* mean I agree with Tony's conclusion that alias accounts were used to help circumvent limits.

[romaine]

1. Romaine is a sharp tennis player and was recognized as such by 5Dimes
2. Romaine was dissatisfied with the $100 - $250 limits allowed by 5Dimes on challenger. It appears that he opened multiple accounts for the purpose of circumventing 5Dimes' limits.3. 5Dimes' software permitted Romaine to place multiple identical $500 parlays on tennis.
4. 5Dimes verbally told him the limits for Challenger Tennis.

ad 2. Without going deeper which I will as soon as I get someone on the phone I ask you to make something plausible for me: Limit was 500 from the start (as per old rules and very first chat conversation and as far as the software is concerned.) Why do I need multiple accounts to circumvent a no limit software?

[Sam Odom]

IMHO, An A+ BOOK would have frozen his acct[s] the minute they suspected rule violations and contacted the player then get to the bottom of the 'problem.'

If the book then felt the player was a 'cheat' they would pay the player (book the bet pay the bet) and boot him with a warning, "if you try to play here again we will keep your $$)

End of story.

[Arhimed]

IMHO, An A+ BOOK would have frozen his acct[s] the minute they suspected rule violations and contacted the player then get to the bottom of the 'problem.'

If the book then felt the player was a 'cheat' they would pay the player (book the bet pay the bet) and boot him with a warning, "if you try to play here again we will keep your $$)

End of story.

Sam Odoms post is a real END OF STORY. I would add, that should do any Book from A-D. If 5Dimes continue with such business,for me 5Dimes is "Caution, extreme risk to players funds. Possibility of a scam", which means F bookie.

[romaine]

IMHO, An A+ BOOK would have frozen his acct[s] the minute they suspected rule violations and contacted the player then get to the bottom of the 'problem.'

If the book then felt the player was a 'cheat' they would pay the player (book the bet pay the bet) and boot him with a warning, "if you try to play here again we will keep your $$)

End of story.

Instead he said: Your dough is gone but if you are so crazy about limits, why don´t you deposit a certain amount of money and I let you play a certain time to see what happens. At that time Tony said that I owed him 15.000$ with my further deposits he would have settled the score I am sure!!

Make him post the very first chat that we had. No word about multiple accounts only his way of getting back at me. I none of our chats did we speak about multiple accounts!

[Sam Odom]

Arhimed, I have a confession to make. I used to be a dirty player.

I've done it, and I can tell when others are doing it.

The Books know this but they can 'play' along hoping the cheats will lose BUT if they don't the Books can say "Look, a cheat" and keep their money. I'll bet % wise there's just as many dirty book employees as dirty players. Booking is a shady biz.

[BuddyBear]

FYI: Arhimed.....hmm, let's see for a moment. 5dimes helps pay SBR's bills. Romaine does not. I wonder who SBR is going to side with here.

Do you think for one moment SBR is going to do anything about this situation...do you even think SBR is even working on the "case" here

Give me a break....basically Justin is slowly trying to sway public opinoin on 5dimes side. That's the new gameplan. That's what moderators on here are trained to do. By the end of this whole ordeal, almost everyone on here will believe 5dimes is completely innocent and is the victim and Romaine is a cheat. SBR is fine when pressuring these C and D books....but they are not going to say anything to their corporate paymasters. I hate to say this, Romaine means absolutely nothing to SBR and if anything, SBR will get a small cut of the money 5dimes stole from Romaine. 5dimes will always have a special home here at SBR no matter what.

[Dark Horse]

Justin said he knows every trick in the book. So do the books. So they should be prepared for them, instead of acting surprised like some dumbass who had no idea these things could happen.

As soon as we move into 'you lose, you lose; you win, you don't win' all bets on the book are off. That's the bottomline for me. The fact that 5D only presented the problem when the player asked for a large payout makes it very clear where the book was coming from. With that in mind, if they did ask for another deposit, that would border on theft (intent to steal).

[SBR_John]

Uhh Buddy Boy, we side with the player quite a bit. We side with who is right.

A small cut??? LMAO! Do you really think that we are that short sighted and just downright foolish?

Buddy I know as a conspiracy buff it is your nature to always think the worse. But your latest conspiracy theory shows rather convincingly that you are blinded by paranoia and far more restricted in cranium capacity than I would of thought.

[tacomax]

IMO, Justin7 is trying to show 5dimes in much better light than they are. The money at Romaine's account is by no mean 5dimes's. It is money which Romaine let 5dimes keep for him, and they didn't have any right to confiscate his money.

Welcome to the forum, Arhimed. Having said that, my spider sense is tingling. You joined today and have made 3 posts, all about 5dimes. Either you're extremely interested in the case or you have a vested interest. Which one is it?

[romaine]

Welcome to the forum, Arhimed. Having said that, my spider sense is tingling. You joined today and have made 3 posts, all about 5dimes. Either you're extremely interested in the case or you have a vested interest. Which one is it?

Does your spider-sense sense a multiple account of mine here?

Just kidding!

[jjgold]

Romaine we love you man, your becoming a national hero. I am calling John personally to speed up things.

If 5 Dimes does the right thing here, I will go back to supporting them and Tony.

Lets go Tony............I have always said you have A type book material if you would just put your ego aside and mange it right.

Do the right thing here and your back in my top 10 book ratings.

[tacomax]

Does your spider-sense sense a multiple account of mine here?

My Magic 8 Ball says "Cannot predict now".

[romaine]

My Magic 8 Ball says "Cannot predict now".

No need for predictions. The admins might give you a hint.

[Arhimed]

Welcome to the forum, Arhimed. Having said that, my spider sense is tingling. You joined today and have made 3 posts, all about 5dimes. Either you're extremely interested in the case or you have a vested interest. Which one is it?

I intended to sign up 5dimes or Pinnacle and was looking posts about them. Then I noticed this thread. I make wagers at bwin, and they have similar behaviour like 5dimes in this case. But I understood that this case is not how 5dimes regularly work, so I am waiting how this situation will be solved. So, the only my interest in this case is not choose bookie where I will be like customer, not like a criminal. You have to know that this case is on the most forums about sports and a lot of bettors are waiting for a epilogue. Now this is not only big case for 5dimes reputation, but for SBR reputation, which is more imporant for me now.
P.S What is your interest in the case tacomax?

[tacomax]

P.S What is your interest in the case tacomax?

I'm interested in sportsbooks and that's why I post at Sportsbook Review.

[Arhimed]

Does your spider-sense sense a multiple account of mine here?

Just kidding!

I am almost sure that one way or other you had multiple accounts at 5dimes. But who gives them right to confiscate your money just because they were suspicious about your multiple accounts. That is the main issue in the case. As I understood, they didn't find same IP's, same addresses or same PC's.

[BuddyBear]

Uhh Buddy Boy, we side with the player quite a bit. We side with who is right.

A small cut??? LMAO! Do you really think that we are that short sighted and just downright foolish?

Buddy I know as a conspiracy buff it is your nature to always think the worse. But your latest conspiracy theory shows rather convincingly that you are blinded by paranoia and far more restricted in cranium capacity than I would of thought.

What's so "conspiratol" about what i said. There is a dispute SBR is asked to resolve. One side is a player. The other side is a book. The players give SBR nothing. The book pays advertising dollars. I claim there may be a potential bias at the very least a conflict of interest. It's not exactly rocket science what I am claiming here.....

Even Taco can understand such things....