Betfair $3.1 million slow-pay and other pro player issues (Video)

[vitalyo]

As I understand the story what actually happened was that A had some difficulty with getting funds to and from Betfair promptly (and that's another thing we haven't been fully informed about) so he asked them what he could do about it.

They provided him with some options, one of which was this PSP mob which he chose to go with. Whether that amounts to a "recommendation" is another thing.

I consult my stockbroker about which companies I should invest in. He provides me with several options from which to chose. I can't expect him to reimburse me when one of them goes belly-up.

Amongst the number of things none of us know (even that mushroom character) is what nature of due diligence and questioning of Betfair about the bona fides of those guys was ever conducted by A.

Disgusting . Hareeba bushes every one for not been smart enough and it took him almost one week to figure out what the deal is .
You shmack should of watch Justin7 video at least 10 times before you reply .
LOL Now you are in stock trading ? And your loser broker giving you advice .
Look you idiot betfair advised him to deal with PSP

Stop embarrassing yourself with low life excuses that he should of/could of dealt with an adviser . Managements word of 5 billion dollar company should be more then enough and more valuable then your local boy .

You just don't know on how to get out of this one
Arguments are more then welcome .To be polite with you ,i think you lost it .

GL.

[SportsMushroom]

Disgusting . Hareeba bushes every one for not been smart enough and it took him almost one week to figure out what the deal is .

this guy hareeba is an idiot, he keeps asking questions that have been answered already, anty keeps explaining it to him and he still says that there are questions that remain unanswered

he pretends that that anty is hiding something, I hope the book hareeba is using closes down and he never sees dime, or better yet they tell him they will send his money to some russian mobster and he can then take it up with him

[vitalyo]

Yeah I've seen this msg a few times with various videos on YouTube - sometimes they mention a legal complaint and sometimes they just "sorry this content isn't available in your country". I guess those of us here in Australia (and maybe everyone outside of the US) won't be able to view that video again unless we use a proxy.

Here :

http://forum.sbrforum.com/sportsbooks-industry/1191206-betfair-3-1-milliay-video-uk-aussies-slowp.html#post10939806

Direct link :

http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/6586961/Betfair__3.1_million_slow-pay_and_other_pro_player_issues

GL.

[yokspot]

very helpful!

I've read ever word you've posted and reckon I've got a pretty good grasp of your story but please don't expect me to go and do it all over again.

Indeed, when he's already answered a question, he really should go on & on repeating it until you decide he can stop.

I certainly don't recall you ever explaining to what extent you researched these PSP people.

Betfair recommended them. Additionally, we now know that there's at least a much closer connection between this Irakli character and Betfair - he organised at least one Betfair Poker event with them. So it makes sense that Betfair would recommend this partner of theirs, irrespective of the OP's confirmation of the fact.

At the risk of joining in the community bashing, I'm not sure if you're acting dumb, are actually dumb or are just plain malicious. Either way, it looks to me you're seeking outs for Betfair that defy any logic. Whether or not the OP emails each of us proof of Betfair's recommendation of the PSP, we have proof of the ties between them in the Youtube video. You're constant attempts to distance Betfair from this gangster is a road to nowhere, and you're doing Betfair no favours by constantly trying to defend what is plainly indefensible.

[sharpcircle]

Hareeba,

Just stop.

[Hareeba!]

Hareeba,

Just stop.

What's your problem?
The questions getting a bit too probing are they?
I'll stop when I'm satisfied that we've got to the bottom of this story.

[acw]

3.I usually lay superfavourites, not back them

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/profiles/flash-harry-the-outrageous-world-of-britains-premier-punter-793573.html

And big markets are crucial to Findlay's system, which he succinctly describes as "glory or the bullet". Among the high priests of betting, he is a lone voice in preaching the value in backing favourites.

Seems you won all Harry's money!

[SportsMushroom]

What's your problem? The questions getting a bit too probing are they? I'll stop when I'm satisfied that we've got to the bottom of this story.

no, the questions are getting old and after being answered for the hundredth time you still insist on asking them over and over

you are a shill, and not a very bright one

[Hareeba!]

no, the questions are getting old and after being answered for the hundredth time you still insist on asking them over and over

you are a shill, and not a very bright one

At least I'm bright enough to be able to read what has and hasn't been said.

And that one needs to have a lot more evidence to be able to condemn someone than has been made available here.

If you're so bright tell me why Betfair, out of the blue would have sent a "recommendation" to Anty to use PSP's master account. I've never heard of any book doing anything like that, let alone one with a reputation for security such as Betfair's. Does Anty have the evidence to back up this extraordinary claim ?

[yokspot]

Does Anty have the evidence to back up this extraordinary claim ?

Of course, you're doing nothing more than attention-seeking, as well as desperately shilling for Betfair. I think that much is apparent to everyone. But FWIW:

At the time my account was part of a master account. Several years ago the then Betfair manager Arthur Asatridis proposed to me this scheme and promised it would be "quick and easy deposits and withdrawals". It was indeed quick and easy with relatively small sums. But this 3.5 mln USD withdrawal became a farce almost from the start.

He had no reason to lie, in addition to which Betfair would clearly promote this Irakli partner of theirs who organises their East European poker events. So notwithstanding no reason to lie about this, that Betfair would recommend their close partner is an entirely compelling suggestion with an absolute ring of truth to it.

I've never heard of any book doing anything like that, let alone one with a reputation for security such as Betfair's.

What reputation and security? There was little of either left after the Happy Hour fiasco. After this latest matter, you can rate both qualities as non-existent.

Not that this is remotely relevant to anything. When an operation offers an ewallet service, you assume it to be reliable. That Betfair work with, and advocate the service to others of, someone who looks little more than a Russian gangster, is a damning indictment of them.

[Hareeba!]

Of course, you're doing nothing more than attention-seeking, as well as desperately shilling for Betfair. I think that much is apparent to everyone. But FWIW:



He had no reason to lie, in addition to which Betfair would clearly promote this Irakli partner of theirs who organises their East European poker events. So notwithstanding no reason to lie about this, that Betfair would recommend their close partner is an entirely compelling suggestion with an absolute ring of truth to it.



What reputation and security? There was little of either left after the Happy Hour fiasco. After this latest matter, you can rate both qualities as non-existent.

Not that this is remotely relevant to anything. When an operation offers an ewallet service, you assume it to be reliable. That Betfair work with, and advocate the service to others of, someone who looks little more than a Russian gangster, is a damning indictment of them.

So you quickly just accept one (quite improbable) side of a story without waiting to get the other side's ?

I can only assume you've never dealt with Betfair or observed how they go about business if you don't respect their obsession with security issues.

Nowhere have I said Betfair isn't at least in part to blame for this thing. All I've been doing is attempting to get the full details surrounding the relationship between PSP, Betfair and Anty. But you seem to know it all ?

And you don't find that Anty has any responsibility for choosing to deal with a firm which he now regards as being crooks? Would you just trust a company you'd never heard of with a significant amount your cash without doing any due diligence on them?

I find it more than extraordinary that Betfair would do as Anty has claimed.
But as in any company it is possible that a rogue employee may do something which is contrary to company policy and depending on the circumstances may have to accept responsibility for his actions.

[Scooter]

Hareeba! - "I find it more than extraordinary that Betfair would do as Anty has claimed.
But as in any company it is possible that a rogue employee may do something which is contrary to company policy and depending on the circumstances may have to accept responsibility for his actions."

Clearly for Anty to bet thru his own Betfair account after depositing funds with PSP, there has to be more than "a rogue employee [one]" involved.
Numerous people in several different departments had to have knowledge of this and facilitate this.


"All I've been doing is attempting to get the full details surrounding the relationship between PSP, Betfair and Anty."

The full details are not relevant, if the info given by Anty and investigated by Justin is correct.

Read between the lines.
The sportsbetting universe is very large and has many facets.
As does the financial universe.
Several reasons why Anty says a lawsuit will be difficult should be obvious. The same reasons may prevent him from going to the media.
That doesn't mean that Anty isn't being cheated.


"I find it more than extraordinary that Betfair would do as Anty has claimed."

In your universe and realm of experience with Betfair this doesn't exist.
That doesn't mean that Betfair, with the full knowledge of company executives, does not have similar agent relationships with various parties and many customers around the world.

Is Anty's situation unique, or are there many others with similar relationships between Betfair and 3rd party agents?
I believe the latter is the much more likely answer.

[Hareeba!]

The full details are not relevant, if the info given by Anty and investigated by Justin is correct.

How can you possibly know that the full details aren't relevant?

IF is the biggest two letter word in our language.

Read between the lines.
The sportsbetting universe is very large and has many facets.
As does the financial universe.
Several reasons why Anty says a lawsuit will be difficult should be obvious. The same reasons may prevent him from going to the media.
That doesn't mean that Anty isn't being cheated.

I've never said he isn't being cheated.
The issue is to what extent if any Betfair is at fault.

"I find it more than extraordinary that Betfair would do as Anty has claimed."

In your universe and realm of experience with Betfair this doesn't exist.
That doesn't mean that Betfair, with the full knowledge of company executives, does not have similar agent relationships with various parties and many customers around the world.

Is Anty's situation unique, or are there many others with similar relationships between Betfair and 3rd party agents?
I believe the latter is the much more likely answer.

I am not questioning that there are others using Betfair via master accounts

What I said is that it seems most extraordinary that Betfair would "out of the blue" tell him he should be using these crooks.

Has anyone else with a Betfair account ever had that happen to them ?

Why only Anty ?

[Justin7]

Justin7 - Are you aware that your video cannot be viewed in Australia?

No, I did not know this. Is it banned in UK also? I'll contact Youtube, and again, offer my rule name if Betfair wants to sue me.

[Scooter]

Has anyone else with a Betfair account ever had that happen to them ?

Why only Anty ?

You've already agreed that Anty is not the only Betfair member using a PSP.
So it's not "only Anty".

We don't know who approached who first on the subject of PSP's - what's the difference?

A few reasons why Anty is someone that Betfair referred to a PSP:

1. A minority of Betfair members have millions on site.

2. Anty is (I assume or maybe he stated it) Russian.


You're putting the burden on Anty to have done due diligence on the PSP.
Doesn't Betfair have an even greater obligation to do so before referring customers to them and setting up banking/money transfer relations with them?
Ignoring legal issues for the moment, doesn't Betfair have an ethical and moral obligation to safeguard the funds of depositors?

[Scooter]

No, I did not know this. Is it banned in UK also? I'll contact Youtube, and again, offer my rule name if Betfair wants to sue me.

Don't know where Youtube is banning it.
I'm in the US - only know about the ban due to Hareeba! referring to it.

Surprised that Shari didn't inform you of this!

[SportsMushroom]

Hareeba just because they didnt steal your 30 bucks that doesnt mean they are honest people

as anty already stated, they gave him no problems while the sums were small, they just showed their malicious nature when the amount was worth them faking a client over

and they would do the same to you if you had the same amount in there, but its obvious you are a losing bettor, envious of someone that is better at it than you

[Hareeba!]

You've already agreed that Anty is not the only Betfair member using a PSP.
So it's not "only Anty".

That's not what I said.
Anty is the only one I've ever heard of getting an "out of the blue" recommendation to use PSP is what I did say.

We don't know who approached who first on the subject of PSP's - what's the difference?

Enormous difference.
If Betfair just approached him out of the blue with the "recommendation" they must take at least some of the blame.

However if Anty complained about the method he was using and they then suggested a range of options he might like to use instead, the responsibility for his decision must rest with him.

You're putting the burden on Anty to have done due diligence on the PSP.
Doesn't Betfair have an even greater obligation to do so before referring customers to them and setting up banking/money transfer relations with them?
Ignoring legal issues for the moment, doesn't Betfair have an ethical and moral obligation to safeguard the funds of depositors?

IF Betfair referred and recommended them then yes.

If a business is instructed to make due payment to an agent then the business has satisfied its responsibility to the creditor by doing so. Surely that is the normal legal position?

However if the business and the agent are not entirely independent of each other then there could be cause to challenge that position. And clearly that's what Anty is claiming.

But he needs to prove that there is such a relationship and the full nature of his with PSP.

[Hareeba!]

Hareeba just because they didnt steal your 30 bucks that doesnt mean they are honest people

as anty already stated, they gave him no problems while the sums were small, they just showed their malicious nature when the amount was worth them faking a client over

and they would do the same to you if you had the same amount in there, but its obvious you are a losing bettor, envious of someone that is better at it than you

spoken like a true loser

get back under that toadstool

[SportsMushroom]

spoken like a true loser get back under that toadstool

lol go back and read the thread again, everyones been calling you a moron for 300 posts and you still keep posting like you have a leg to stand on

[Hareeba!]

lol go back and read the thread again, everyones been calling you a moron for 300 posts and you still keep posting like you have a leg to stand on

not quite everyone .. only mushrooms and other fungi

I suggest you read what I've been saying and when you have something sensible to say about the points I've made or questions I've asked come back and enlighten us.

[SportsMushroom]

not quite everyone .. only mushrooms and other fungi

I suggest you read what I've been saying and when you have something sensible to say about the points I've made or questions I've asked come back and enlighten us.

nah you just rumble the same crap over and over, you've gotten tiring

betfair are crooks and have been exposed, nothing you can do about it now

the more you bitch the more you make people in the thread dispise you and your corrupt employers

[Hareeba!]

nah you just rumble the same crap over and over, you've gotten tiring

betfair are crooks and have been exposed, nothing you can do about it now

the more you bitch the more you make people in the thread dispise you and your corrupt employers

You may not agree with my points of view but I've certainly not posted anything as outrageously stupid as you have.

I don't care a hoot if you or some others despise me.

And my only employer is myself if that's possible.

[SportsMushroom]

You may not agree with my points of view but I've certainly not posted anything as outrageously stupid as you have. I don't care a hoot if you or some others despise me. And my only employer is myself if that's possible.

you dont care if people despise you but you care about betfairs reputation?

I said it before, you dont seem like someone thats smart enough to be self employed

even if you somehow managed to be your own boss you'd be fired before the week was out

[Hareeba!]

you dont care if people despise you but you care about betfairs reputation?

I said it before, you dont seem like someone thats smart enough to be self employed

even if you somehow managed to be your own boss you'd be fired before the week was out

I'll back my smarts against a mushroom any day.

My interest re the Betfair stories is to put some balance into the absurdly one sided, grossly inaccurate and unfair stuff which is forever being posted on this forum and not only against Betfair. I've done the same when I've seen the same regarding other books too.

[durito]

I´d back a mushroom versus you. You still want to bet thremp? Surely he is less intelligent than a mushroom. Lets set it up.

[SportsMushroom]

I'll back my smarts against a mushroom any day. My interest re the Betfair stories is to put some balance into the absurdly one sided, grossly inaccurate and unfair stuff which is forever being posted on this forum and not only against Betfair. I've done the same when I've seen the same regarding other books too.

oh yes but see, in this case the poster has answered all the questions he's been asked and his story makes sense, you are the douchebag that keeps insisting that he is hiding something when he's answered everything and you think you are robin hood for the books, which confirms what a moron you are

this site was made with a purpose to protect bettors from corrupt sites like betfair so back off, if you want to defend the greedy fakkers at betfair then you are at the last place you should be

[Hareeba!]

I´d back a mushroom versus you. You still want to bet thremp? Surely he is less intelligent than a mushroom. Lets set it up.

Here he is again !

Have you ever popped into thread to contribute something or is it always to indulge in personal abuse ?

[SportsMushroom]

Here he is again ! Have you ever popped into thread to contribute something or is it always to indulge in personal abuse ?

well I dont see you contributing anything sunshine

just trying to defend betfair using childish discussion methods, you just stick to your story no matter how silly it sounds

[Hareeba!]

well I dont see you contributing anything sunshine

just trying to defend betfair using childish discussion methods, you just stick to your story no matter how silly it sounds

LOL

You really are demonstrating that your intelligence is no greater than a mushroom's.

If you can read you will see that my contribution has primarily been raising questions which need to be determined before anyone can say who's at fault in this matter.

Please show me the "childish part" or anything as stupid as your post #332

[Scooter]

Scooter - "We don't know who approached who first on the subject of PSP's - what's the difference?"

Hareeba! - "Enormous difference.
If Betfair just approached him out of the blue with the "recommendation" they must take at least some of the blame.
However if Anty complained about the method he was using and they then suggested a range of options he might like to use instead, the responsibility for his decision must rest with him."

That may make an enormous difference for the Hareeba! "Let me personally assign fault" decision making.
It is meaningless in real world terms.

"Your Honor, they referred me to a Payment Provider they are in business with who has robbed me of 3.1 million dollars".
Judge - "Yes, but you asked them if there's another way for you to get funds to them, so it's your fault. Case dismissed."

I don't think so.

"Your Honor, Mr. Madoff has swindled me out of 3.1 million dollars."
Judge - "Yes, but you approached him - the responsibility for your decision must rest with you - so he is allowed to swindle you. Case dismissed."

[Hareeba!]

Scooter - "We don't know who approached who first on the subject of PSP's - what's the difference?"

Hareeba! - "Enormous difference.
If Betfair just approached him out of the blue with the "recommendation" they must take at least some of the blame.
However if Anty complained about the method he was using and they then suggested a range of options he might like to use instead, the responsibility for his decision must rest with him."

That may make an enormous difference for the Hareeba! "Let me personally assign fault" decision making.
It is meaningless in real world terms.

"Your Honor, they referred me to a Payment Provider they are in business with who has robbed me of 3.1 million dollars".
Judge - "Yes, but you asked them if there's another way for you to get funds to them, so it's your fault. Case dismissed."

I don't think so.

"Your Honor, Mr. Madoff has swindled me out of 3.1 million dollars."
Judge - "Yes, but you approached him - the responsibility for your decision must rest with you - so he is allowed to swindle you. Case dismissed."

You're demonstrating a sad lack of ability to comprehend what I've been saying.

Betfair, like all bookmakers list a number of options on their site for how a customer can deposit and withdraw funds. Amongst those are Neteller and Moneybookers.

Now should a customer chose to use say Moneybookers and one day in the future Moneybookers goes belly up are you saying Betfair is responsible for the money their customer lost ?

[vitalyo]

You're demonstrating a sad lack of ability to comprehend what I've been saying.

At this point no one can possibly figure out on what you are saying .You dismiss every argument with your "superior" knowledge you failed on numerous occasions and misunderstood or refuse to understand on what is written in Black and White . You have been asking questions that are already been answered . It's like you didn't read the very first "anty" post nor watched Justin7 video . SBR posters had to pointed out to you on numerous occasions that your questions are already been answered. This is really embarrassing
I am getting impression that you are dumb or you have some sort of shilling problem . If non above fits in your category then you should try to think before you post .Wouldn't be a bad idea to read the whole trend again .
I know thinking is hard job and it requires a lots time , but you should try .

GL.

[Scooter]

Hareeba! - "Betfair, like all bookmakers list a number of options on their site for how a customer can deposit and withdraw funds. Amongst those are Neteller and Moneybookers.

Now should a customer chose to use say Moneybookers and one day in the future Moneybookers goes belly up are you saying Betfair is responsible for the money their customer lost ?"

I don't know.
But Anty's PSP is not belly up. They acknowledge having his money, but they refuse to hand it over.

"...are you saying Betfair is responsible for the money their customer lost ?"

Yes. Or at least, they have some level of responsibility and possibly a great deal of responsibility.

[yokspot]

At this point no one can possibly figure out on what you are saying .You dismiss every argument with your "superior" knowledge you failed on numerous occasions and misunderstood or refuse to understand on what is written in Black and White .

He's not so much dismissing the arguments as pretending they haven't been made, the theory being that if on page 10 you say something already stated on page 2 hasn't been said, casual readers won't bother to check back to page 2 and assume the shill has called it correctly. It's a pain, but Betfair agents aren't about to sit back and let the truth be exposed unchallenged, so you can understand his motivation. At least we're in no doubt about his agenda now.

Here's a conspiracy theory which does at least gel with Betfair's extraordinary refusal to take any responsibility for the money owed to this player: with no intention to honour a 3.5 million cashout, they decide on, say, 1 mill. They send it to their close business associate, Irakli Kacharava, with the instruction to pay $600,000, and keep the remaining $400,000 back hander in exchange for taking the flack. Now, Betfair can claim to have "paid", and xxxxxx xxxxxxxxx, a Russian gangster, is almost certainly completely unreachable, so 400K is a pretty fair offer for almost no risk to himself.

Of course, xxxxxxxxx may simply be sitting on the full 3.1 million outstanding, but that leaves Betfair's refusal to ensure payment without an explanation.

Why does SBR rate Betfair at "A" after all this? It defies reality.