Betfair $3.1 million slow-pay and other pro player issues (Video)

[yokspot]

Anty, post about this at Bailey's, in this forum:

http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/...-bonus-issues/

The matter has alrady been brought up in the Happy Hour thread in the "bonus problems" forum, but there are some misunderstandings floating around and I think you need to spell out the facts in full.

[Hareeba!]

Hareeba! - "Betfair, like all bookmakers list a number of options on their site for how a customer can deposit and withdraw funds. Amongst those are Neteller and Moneybookers.

Now should a customer chose to use say Moneybookers and one day in the future Moneybookers goes belly up are you saying Betfair is responsible for the money their customer lost ?"

I don't know.
But Anty's PSP is not belly up. They acknowledge having his money, but they refuse to hand it over.

"...are you saying Betfair is responsible for the money their customer lost ?"

Yes. Or at least, they have some level of responsibility and possibly a great deal of responsibility.

So you are saying that every bookie and in fact every enterprise on the internet which offers a number of different payment options is liable to be held responsible for the default of any of those payment processors ?

If that's the way you think the law should work in this area there really is no point in attempting any further logical discussion with you.

[Scooter]

So you are saying that every bookie and in fact every enterprise on the internet which offers a number of different payment options is liable to be held responsible for the default of any of those payment processors ?

If that's the way you think the law should work in this area there really is no point in attempting any further logical discussion with you.

Good point.

No, that's not the way I think the law should work.

In this case, the processor has not gone out of business, declared bankruptcy, etc.
They are stating "Our contract says that we have to pay you, but it doesn't state when."
This is different than a payment processor going out of business or bankrupting.

[Hareeba!]

Good point.

No, that's not the way I think the law should work.

In this case, the processor has not gone out of business, declared bankruptcy, etc.
They are stating "Our contract says that we have to pay you, but it doesn't state when."
This is different than a payment processor going out of business or bankrupting.

One thing at a time mate. Plenty of fungi on here get their balls in a twist when you attempt to deal with more than one train of thought.

I was simply attempting to demonstrate to you what I meant about 'huge difference' in how Anty came to learn about PSP. That's all.

So now you concede that a business which simply offers a range of options in how to transact with them isn't liable should the customer lose money through dealing with one of those processors we move on.


In looking at Betfair's site and the options offered they were all the standard bank, CC, bank transfer, and well known e-wallets such as Neteller and Moneybookers etc. There was no "PSP" to be seen. And there is no mention of master accounts either.

If Anty hadn't been happy with his method of funds transfer to and from Betfair I wonder why he wouldn't have chosen one of the alternative options listed on their site.

Further I wonder why Betfair would have just approached him out of the blue and suggested he deal with PSP.

I think these are just a couple of valid questions which need to be explored before anyone can come to a conclusion.

[SportsMushroom]

He's not so much dismissing the arguments as pretending they haven't been made, the theory being that if on page 10 you say something already stated on page 2 hasn't been said, casual readers won't bother to check back to page 2 and assume the shill has called it correctly. It's a pain, but Betfair agents aren't about to sit back and let the truth be exposed unchallenged, so you can understand his motivation. At least we're in no doubt about his agenda now. Here's a conspiracy theory which does at least gel with Betfair's extraordinary refusal to take any responsibility for the money owed to this player: with no intention to honour a 3.5 million cashout, they decide on, say, 1 mill. They send it to their close business associate, Irakli Kacharava, with the instruction to pay $600,000, and keep the remaining $400,000 back hander in exchange for taking the flack. Now, Betfair can claim to have "paid", and Irakli Kacharava, a Russian gangster, is almost certainly completely unreachable, so 400K is a pretty fair offer for almost no risk to himself. Of course, Kacharava may simply be sitting on the full 3.1 million outstanding, but that leaves Betfair's refusal to ensure payment without an explanation. Why does SBR rate Betfair at "A" after all this? It defies reality.

[Hareeba!]

yeah in the same realm of stupidity as your posts so no surprise you like it

[SportsMushroom]

yeah in the same realm of stupidity as your posts so no surprise you like it

you are the only idiot in this thread, it has been pointed out many times by a number of posters but obviously you are the idiot so you dont realize they are talking about you, you probably think they are talking about another hareeba

take your shilling elsewhere

[vitalyo]

you are the only idiot in this thread, it has been pointed out many times by a number of posters but obviously you are the idiot so you dont realize they are talking about you, you probably think they are talking about another hareeba

take your shilling elsewhere

[Hareeba!]

you are the only idiot in this thread, it has been pointed out many times by a number of posters but obviously you are the idiot so you dont realize they are talking about you, you probably think they are talking about another hareeba

take your shilling elsewhere

incapable of putting up a reasoned debate, you resort to name calling

if you have nothing more to contribute it is you who should be taking your nonsense elsewhere

[SportsMushroom]

incapable of putting up a reasoned debate, you resort to name calling if you have nothing more to contribute it is you who should be taking your nonsense elsewhere

actually you resort to name calling in every single post

such a moron you cant even remember what you said

what is your only argument? 'dont believe this guy he is scum, betfair is the best weeee'




HAREEBA

KEEP SHILLING

[Toit]

You come close though, with your psychotic replies.

[vitalyo]

Toit is another intellectual wannabe He has some minor issues with a smiles but the dude is cool just look at his avatar

BOL

[kkkkk]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/pe...er-793573.html

And big markets are crucial to Findlay's system, which he succinctly describes as "glory or the bullet". Among the high priests of betting, he is a lone voice in preaching the value in backing favourites.

Seems you won all Harry's money!

well there are not only Moneyline bets, but also handicap bets and totals. As long as i remember Barca and Real have won a lot games in winter, so i guess he laid overs at very good odds, then normally overs 2.5 goals are around 1.5 for those teams. This is just my though, i doubt anyone thinks anty will come with his strategy for free here.

[yokspot]

I've made a tender portrait gallery in honour of Irakli Kacharava, the Russian who's sitting on the outstanding $3,100,000.

http://online_casino_news.hundredper...ver-three.html

Is there any progress / further cash forthcoming?

[Justin7]

I've made a tender portrait gallery in honour of Irakli Kacharava, the Russian who's sitting on the outstanding $3,100,000.

http://online_casino_news.hundredper...ver-three.html

Is there any progress / further cash forthcoming?

There has been no progress. I am looking for ways to escalate.

[SportsMushroom]

There has been no progress. I am looking for ways to escalate.

I think anty should pay a handsome reward to a recovery agent that would collect on his behalf, is that possible?

[Scooter]

There has been no progress. I am looking for ways to escalate.

Have you heard from YouTube re: banning your video outside of the US?

[anty]

PSP mobsters now officially refused to transfer money to my account anymore. They are saying that they wil transfer money only to the Russian banks (my account is in the Latvian bank) but of course its another lie. Even If I ll give them the account in one of the Russian banks they will not pay.

[pjesnik24]

PSP mobsters now officially refused to transfer money to my account anymore. They are saying that they wil transfer money only to the Russian banks (my account is in the Latvian bank) but of course its another lie. Even If I ll give them the account in one of the Russian banks they will not pay.

that might be true but you should still open an account in a russian bank. I am sure that there are few russian banks in latvia (if that is where you are from)

[anty]

that might be true but you should still open an account in a russian bank. I am sure that there are few russian banks in latvia (if that is where you are from)

And then they will ask for something else as a reason for not paying. It was an agreed account from the beginning, there were no problems until I started to write to SBR.

[Santo]

How much hassle would it be to test that by opening the account? Problems with money transfers out of russia sounds unlikely, but not impossible.

And what do you mean by no problems before you wrote to SBR. They were slow-paying, no? Hence the reason you wrote..

[anty]

There are no such problems they don't even hide that they are doing it as a sort of vengeance in response to my writings to betfair and SBR.
By no problems I mean no such complaints from them. Of course they were slow-paing, in fact as I said they were almost no-paying in the last 3 months.

[SprayBoy]

I'd prefer not to scroll through the whole thread....has SBR helped you out in anyway yet? They usually have a strong voice in these matters...of course I'm guessing Betfair probably chose to ignore. Hope you get your money

[anty]

I'd prefer not to scroll through the whole thread....has SBR helped you out in anyway yet? They usually have a strong voice in these matters...of course I'm guessing Betfair probably chose to ignore. Hope you get your money

Justin is helping me as much as he can, big thanks to him. In fact a lot of guys helping me in this difficult situation, in Russia, in England, in the States. There are many good guys in this world but it seems none of them works for betfair. No reaction from them whatsoever.

[Hareeba!]

Justin is helping me as much as he can, big thanks to him. In fact a lot of guys helping me in this difficult situation, in Russia, in England, in the States. There are many good guys in this world but it seems none of them works for betfair. No reaction from them whatsoever.

If you're so sure of your ground you'd be taking legal action to recover that sort of sum.

[potless]

If you're so sure of your ground you'd be taking legal action to recover that sort of sum.

your usual baseless drivel as bf can do no wrong and bare no responsibility in your eyes

[Hareeba!]

your usual baseless drivel as bf can do no wrong and bare no responsibility in your eyes

If you were actually to read all my posts you'd find several where I've been critical of Betfair.

Do you actually have something intelligent to say about this issue or did you just drop in for a personal insult?

[Scooter]

If you're so sure of your ground you'd be taking legal action to recover that sort of sum.

anty - "PSP mobsters now officially refused to transfer money to my account anymore."

He's already given an excellent reason - long ago in this thread - as to why he - or you or anyone else - would be reluctant to bring this to court.

[Hareeba!]

anty - "PSP mobsters now officially refused to transfer money to my account anymore."

He's already given an excellent reason - long ago in this thread - as to why he - or you or anyone else - would be reluctant to bring this to court.

I've yet to see anything resembling an "excellent reason".

If his case is a sound as he's making out it is the only logical way to proceed against Betfair.

I'd have personally been making a nuisance of myself in Betfair's HQ demanding payment and be briefing my lawyers to commence proceedings long before now.

[Justin7]

Hareeba,

The general rule for offshore books is that if a processor stiffs a player, he book makes it good. In many, many cases a book has to pay a player his full payout twice.

If Betfair were an A book, I would expect them to pay the player the full 3.1m in whatever means will work, and pursue the PSP for the amount they are stiffing the player. But an A book would never send 3.1m to a processor for a payout that would take 3 years. My personal ranking for Betfair is C or C- now.

[Hareeba!]

Hareeba,

The general rule for offshore books is that if a processor stiffs a player, he book makes it good. In many, many cases a book has to pay a player his full payout twice.

If Betfair were an A book, I would expect them to pay the player the full 3.1m in whatever means will work, and pursue the PSP for the amount they are stiffing the player. But an A book would never send 3.1m to a processor for a payout that would take 3 years. My personal ranking for Betfair is C or C- now.

The "general rule" is that the book selects the payment processor, not the player.

Betfair is not a regular "offshore" book. They don't have US customers and I've never heard of them needing to use payment processors before. I thought they did it all themselves.

The "general rule" for dealing with Betfair is not to have to use a "master account" and to nominate the account you want your funds to be sent to. Betfair appear to have done as the player instructed.

As I've been saying from the outset the resolution of this case would appear to depend upon who's agent PSP is. And I've been asking questions all along in an attempt to get to the bottom of the actual relationships between Betfair, PSP and Anty.

The "general rule" if one feels his case is so strong and hasn't been able to obtain satisfaction through the complaints process is to refer it to an industry adjudicator or take legal action. The apparent reluctance (or "difficulty") in this case leaves one wondering why he hasn't done that.

My personal ranking of Betfair is A++. I've never heard of any ordinary player being stiffed by them. I don't have the slightest concern about having a very significant part of my bankroll with them. And I don't believe any regular player has any cause for concern in dealing with them. Just don't mess with them. Read their rules and understand that they are regulated and won't put up with anything dodgy.

[Justin7]

My personal ranking of Betfair is A++. I've never heard of any ordinary player being stiffed by them. I don't have the slightest concern about having a very significant part of my bankroll with them. And I don't believe any regular player has any cause for concern in dealing with them. Just don't mess with them. Read their rules and understand that they are regulated and won't put up with anything dodgy.

Hareeba,

Betfair stiffed hundreds of players on the Happy Hour promo. I read on another forum that Betfair's potential liabilities from that incident could exceed $10m sterling (although I don't have any solid sources to confirm that figure). They have mugged at least 4 players that wrote SBR on "phantom premium charges". There are dozens of players complaining about this at other forums -- if you are a winning player but haven't hit the max premium charge, you're at risk of being grouped with anyone that beats that sport, even though there is no similar IP or computer involved. Betfair has stolen account balances from players (I think SBR had 2 cases of this) with no rational explanation. The player asked "what did I do?" Betfair simply repeated "you broke our rules" but didn't say what rule.

If in ordinary, you mean small, losing player, you are right. But winning players, especially the larger winning players are at risk of getting screwed by Betfair. If you don't see that, you can't read.

[Hareeba!]

Hareeba,

Betfair stiffed hundreds of players on the Happy Hour promo. I read on another forum that Betfair's potential liabilities from that incident could exceed $10m sterling (although I don't have any solid sources to confirm that figure). They have mugged at least 4 players that wrote SBR on "phantom premium charges". There are dozens of players complaining about this at other forums -- if you are a winning player but haven't hit the max premium charge, you're at risk of being grouped with anyone that beats that sport, even though there is no similar IP or computer involved. Betfair has stolen account balances from players (I think SBR had 2 cases of this) with no rational explanation. The player asked "what did I do?" Betfair simply repeated "you broke our rules" but didn't say what rule.

If in ordinary, you mean small, losing player, you are right. But winning players, especially the larger winning players are at risk of getting screwed by Betfair. If you don't see that, you can't read.

We've been over this before. The players "stiffed" in the Happy Hour promo all broke Betfair's rules. Whether those rules were strong enough as I understand it is still up to the courts to determine.

I'm a long term winning player there and haven't been stung by any premium charges at all.
Betfair is a lot smarter at detecting players who attempt to be too clever than those players who think they are too smart realise. You know very well that there have been numerous cases of players complaining about being dudded by some book or other but haven't fully disclosed what dodgy stuff they've been up to.

As for those who don't get any satisfaction when questioning why their accounts have been closed, have you considered the suspicious transactions reporting legislation which makes it illegal for the book to tell them anything at all?

It just makes no sense for Betfair to terminate accounts of those who play by the rules and by the law as they generate commission income.

Anyway this is all way off the real subject of this thread.

[bettilimbroke999]

Hard to believe Hareeba or anyone else could possibly defend their actions, it seems as though Hareeba must work for BF

[Santo]

Presumably the reason is the shady characters involved and a fear of repercussions, probably something hard to appreciate from here.