BetPhoenix doesnt credit my account for a blackjack and then say that I'm cheating...

[JerseyShop101]

I've been one of the biggest supporters of this book for the last 6 months but there have some subtle moves that have been making me feel very uncomfortable the last couple of weeks... and then this happens Sunday night..

Im playing blackjack and get an AJ.... nice... so then next hand I get blackjack again, this time with AQ, but my account never gets credited and they take the risked money out of my account.



So I'm on the phone and live chat with them for a total of about 3 hours on Tuesday trying to get this straightened out. Well, I eventually get them to send me the full hand history for my live blackjack play on Sunday Night:

http://www.2shared.com/file/10814910/d5cbb4af/p10938.html

It shows that I did get credited for the AJ blackjack, but never got credited for the AQ blackjack and was proof that I'm right. So finally, Carlos (casino manager) comes to the conclusion that I am right and that he just has to send a message to the tech support people in Singapore as is required by the company. He says that he will credit my account 112.50, and a little extra for the inconvenience and patience that I showed. He says that he will credit my account on Wednesday once he hears back from the support team.

So then yesterday comes and its the same thing. I call, and he says the people in Singapore gave him the wrong answer and to give him until today. I alos had a very interesting chat with Jeff Robinson yesterday and I will post that in the next post.

So onto today, I call twice this morning and Carlos isn't there. FInally, Carlos calls me around 12:30 EST and leaves a voicemail. I get back to him and he tells me that the tech support people in Singapore said that the documents are right and i never risked or played that hand. I said WTF, how can that be when I have a damn screenshot that shows otherwise. After arguing on the phone for 10 minutes, it gets nowhere and it ends up with Carlos calling me a cheater. He basically said that I photoshopped the picture and that the documents are always right. For one thing, I have no idea how to photoshop and I'm pretty sure you couldn't make it look that perfect even if you were an expert at it.

This is an email he sent to Jeff Robinson about it:

Brian, I got this email forward from the casino manager carlos, I suggest you get in touch with carlos about this email we got from our casino host. carlos@betphoenix.com
Thanks,
Jeff R

The backend clearly shows no record of him placing $45 on game 068DQN.

I believe the attached screenshot belongs to game 067DQN, not the game 068DQN he claimed.

The Game Id of 067DQN (which you did spot out), and Net Win of previous game 066DQN ($20+$20=$40) do betray him.

So chances are he cleverly performed following steps:

Step 1. After placing $45 on 067DQN, right before the cards were dealt, he captured the screen. (blank with no card).

Step 2. He chickened out the next game (068DQN), which later he found out that was also a Blackjack hand.

He regretted that, so he captured the video screen, and photoshopped it with the previous 067DQN screen.

Not a good sign that they are willing to go to this length over a measly 112 dollars. I am very offended with the whole situation and can't believe Ive actually got cheated over 100 dollars. This is a joke of a company and I think all the posts out there are more then likely legit and warranted. I am done with BetPhoenix, and hope I can get that money so I can cash out.

Couple questions:

If you won a Blackjack on the previous hand, how did you get paid a net of $40? The net win shown above is from the previous hand. It only lets you bet in whole dollars. If you bet $26, BJ would of paid you a net of $39. If you bet $27, BJ would of netted you $40.50.

And do you always screenshot every hand? I can play over 50 hands in a session, I don't screen shot them (they have a link to report any problems on the game screen).

From the time you are dealt your cards, you have 7 seconds to make a decision. You had blackjack and of course made the decision to stay. Then it takes about 5 seconds for the dealer to turn over her 2 cards and place the 4 cards in the discard holder.

Evidently, you noticed in those 5 short seconds that you weren't being paid for your AQ blackjack and quickly hit the "print screen" key? You must keep your finger on the "print screen key" full time just to ensure you are paid correctly on every hand?

I'm not saying you would do anything like this, but I'm sure there are all kinds of stories the books could tell us about players trying to get over on them for even a lot less than $69.

[korbal29]

they dont have enough tools to verify if he cheated or not???

[JerseyShop101]

(had put wrong game id number).

He never played the AQ hand.

[JerseyShop101]

they dont have enough tools to verify if he cheated or not???

I want him to explain how he netted $40 on the previous hand, which he says he got the AJ blackjack.

He netted $112.50 from this blackjack hand. If he would of bet the AQ hand, it would show the net of $112.50 and it does not.

The net of $40 is from the hand before the AJ blackjack!

HE IS BUSTED!

[landers781]

Hmm judging by the hand history we dont know if that bj hand is missing. My question is why would he continue to play for an hour after the fact, unless he looks at the hand history. If he can provide other screen shots it may help his case.

With that said, the CS rep should still be reprimanded at the very least

[JerseyShop101]

Hmm judging by the hand history we dont know if that bj hand is missing. My question is why would he continue to play for an hour after the fact, unless he looks at the hand history. If he can provide other screen shots it may help his case.

With that said, the CS rep should still be reprimanded at the very least

I've been in customer service for years, and I know that even when a person is completely scamming you (and you have proof, from the several times prior, ie workers comp fraud, insurance claims fraud). You just have to say disapproved, even though on the inside you want to say a lot worse. Funny that some people are just professional victims and always have 3 or 4 totally separate lawsuits going on at the same time. They are just clumsy, in every store they go in, lol. Sad thing is, a lot of people get away with it.

[acarmelo1]

even if that is true, Jeff didnt had to act like that.

[JerseyShop101]

even if that is true, Jeff didnt had to act like that.

I agree with you.

[katstale]

Jersey, been following this with interest. Kinda wanted to see if this was gonna go down like the guy whose kid lost his balance there. I was trying to figure out "motive" because it didn't seem plausible that it was for that small amt of money.

If you are correct, Phoenix and SBR owe u a few sbr points!! lol cause if money is not the motivation here, then the motivation has to be to smear Phoenix.

In any case, as several have mentioned here, Richard settles this stuff (no matter who is right) in the favor of the player most of the time. Good PR but a major pain for him i imagine.

By the way, Jeff won't be out of work long. He already has the skillset to work for Tony at Dimes.

[Dank_Fire]

Cant believe this is happening. I hope it gets worked out for ya Brian.

[Glitch]

maybe he didnt bet the hand, maybe he did and there was a technical malfunction- nobody knows- nobody can prove it or disprove it. theres no proof for something that didnt happen by definition.

that hand woulda came up whether he was playing or just watching. if someone takes a hit then it shows up whether he asked for it or not.

ps. tell jeff i said F*ck off

[Glitch]

wait wait wait...i missed a couple posts...hmmmm i guess it would have to be doctored pretty adequately and thoroughly for this to occur. i wonder if whoever is accusing him of essentially copying and pasting images of the chips and the bet onto the page that he airbrushed? out....i wonder if they could accomplish this feat so thoroughly as they are accusing him to have perpetrated.

betphoenix you are crooks, thats a fact....with this specific situation tho, its hard to say if the page just didnt change over (technical malfunction) and he didnt make the bet- but it showed the bet was still up. it didnt register in the system and the log because nobody programmed it intentionally to be extorted like that.

who really knows. "a pictures worth 1000 words"

[JerseyShop101]

It was easy to see that the game before his AJ blackjack he netted $40 (066DQN).

He netted $112.50 from this blackjack hand (067DQN). If he would of bet the very next hand which was the AQ hand, it would show the net of $112.50 on his screenshot, and it does not.

Funny how he tried to use the same Game ID 067DQN which was his AJ hand and make it into the AQ hand.

Totally BUSTED.

[tltaylor89]

Won anoth. 100 bucks in the live casino

[JerseyShop101]

Betphoenix has given away $1000s of dollars in contests across forumville. They also given away $25 and $50 free cash to try out there BJ, roulette, and sportsbook for free. Numerous posters/players have been given free plays in the past just for being a loyal customer. And I'm talking hundreds of dollars, when they didn't have to give a cent.

No way Betphoenix would rip off a player for a measley $69. But there are plenty of players out there who would rip off a book for 10 bucks.

[JerseyShop101]

Won anoth. 100 bucks in the live casino

Great going!

Live is so much better than the Random Number Generator software.

[Raven66]

Betphoenix has given away $1000s of dollars in contests across forumville. They also given away $25 and $50 free cash to try out there BJ, roulette, and sportsbook for free. Numerous posters/players have been given free plays in the past just for being a loyal customer. And I'm talking hundreds of dollars, when they didn't have to give a cent.

No way Betphoenix would rip off a player for a measley $69. But there are plenty of players out there who would rip off a book for 10 bucks.

This Brian Laverty is a con artist.

[BrianLaverty]

I dont get it.. how am i con artist?

over 67.50? seriously???

Hell, I tipped the dealer 20 dollars Sunday night!!.. but yet, id cheat for 67.50???

Ive been following this thread all day on my phone at work and wanted to reply but I cant figure out howto sign on to my name so Im finally home and ill answer the questions and comments now.

[trumpdown]

The true nature of all this quite possibly is rooted deeper than first glance.

Hope I'm wrong.

[BrianLaverty]

ok so the file that was sent to me was never altered in anyway I am 100% positive of that... With that being said.. I can't be positive he didn't screen shot a file that was altered.. Let me walk you through what that would be like... you would have to take the screen shot (easy)..alter it perfectly in photoshop (ehh kinda hard if u never did it before).. then take a screen shot of the altered screen shot (easy) ... BUt this screen shot would have to be perfect.. i mean he would have to keep photoshop open or some other image viewer and perfectly screen shot it out of the image..Taking a perfect screen shot that would keep photo shop out of the image (could be hard).. the file that was sent to me is a .png which is what a screen shot would be in 99% of cases.. I am waiting to see the other file he has of the first hand.. the hand they gave him credit for.. and i will state my reason after i get it, which i am told won't be for a few days... not saying i think he cheated.. not saying he didn't.. i am just stating the facts .. lets see how it plays out

Marino.. i trust your opinion cause you seem to know what youre talking about. I dont have a damn clue about computers and definitely dont know how to use photoshop... I dont even have it on my computer for christs sake and couldnt tell you how to do ANY of this.

Is there anyway I can send you a computer log of what I did that day? Do computers keep track of all programs that are open and shut on certain days? Im willing to send you a copy of my ****in hard drive to prove to the rest of the people that I dont have photoshop and have never used it. So let me know what I have to do to send you the computer log if there is one, and Ill do it. Im not bullshitting at all.

[BrianLaverty]

I def prefer live over the virtual. At least you can see whats going on. Plus the pace is slower so you dont go bust as fast

As do I.. I trust it so much more and Jeff actually told me when I first opened an account and lost 300 first day on the virtual casino to use the live casino and not the virtual one. I cant remember the exact quote, but he basically said that the virtual casino is 3rd party software and definitely has an edge for the sportsbook. Ive never felt comfortable playing bj on the computer until I played live casino.... Its the most authentic thing you can have on the internet and I actually wish more places would follow the lead.

[BrianLaverty]

Count me in as someone who believes that Jeff @ Bet Phoenix should be FIRED IMMEDIATELY.

I dont even care if he is fired or not... I obviously dont want him as my account manager anymore, but all I want is an apology from both him & Phil, and an explanation on why they just suddenly close my account. A legit explanation...

[BrianLaverty]

Do you have screenshots of otherhands? What made you take one of just that hand?

While I do take screenshots of every blackjack, I saved that one specifically because of the software problem I had.

Three things happened that usually dont....

1) The hand history never changed... This scared me but I thought maybe it just was a momentary pause or something..

2) The big thing for me... the hands never came in big on my screen. For anyone who plays live blackjack knows that the cards come on big on your screen after the dealer deals one at a time. This absolutely never happened before and it made me real nervous that I wouldn't get credit for it... And when I exited the blackjack screen like I did after the AQ hand, my balance was 45 dollars less then it was supposed to be... So instead of deleting the screenshots like I usually do once my balance is right... Id saved the AQ one. And the program actually froze after this... I didnt report it right away because I was watching a game I had money on (It was an NBA one... cant remmeber exactly... maybe Jazz/Nuggets or something liek that? all i can remember is i took the 2nd half over and won). I went back on the program around 30 minutes later and continued to play.. I finally emailed them about the blackjack i didnt get credit for around monday afternoon, after i blew 1500 on a terrible run of cards in BJ Monday morning.

[Toit]

kmarinouofm, does the time stamp of the screenshot match the 10.35pm of his computer?

[BrianLaverty]

Couple questions: If you won a Blackjack on the previous hand, how did you get paid a net of $40? The net win shown above is from the previous hand. It only lets you bet in whole dollars. If you bet $26, BJ would of paid you a net of $39. If you bet $27, BJ would of netted you $40.50. And do you always screenshot every hand? I can play over 50 hands in a session, I don't screen shot them (they have a link to report any problems on the game screen). From the time you are dealt your cards, you have 7 seconds to make a decision. You had blackjack and of course made the decision to stay. Then it takes about 5 seconds for the dealer to turn over her 2 cards and place the 4 cards in the discard holder. Evidently, you noticed in those 5 short seconds that you weren't being paid for your AQ blackjack and quickly hit the "print screen" key? You must keep your finger on the "print screen key" full time just to ensure you are paid correctly on every hand? I'm not saying you would do anything like this, but I'm sure there are all kinds of stories the books could tell us about players trying to get over on them for even a lot less than $69.

If youre gonna say Im cheated, can you at least come up with some real information here.

The net win is what you win plus what you risked.

The hand before I got AJ blackjack, I risked 20 and won 20. Therefore, that is a net of $40 and is not 5 hands, but 2 hands before I got AQ.

The screen never changed after I got the AJ blackjack., Like I said in a previous post, this is why I freaked out. I had a feeling I wouldnt get credit for it and I didnt. The screen never changed, which is why the top left hand corner of the screen was the same as before the AJ hand. Obviously, this is either me photoshopping it OR a software error. Maybe it was a connection error on my side? I dont know, but I do know I didnt edit or airbrush or photoshop the screen.. I have no idea even how to do that.

[BrianLaverty]

Hmm judging by the hand history we dont know if that bj hand is missing. My question is why would he continue to play for an hour after the fact, unless he looks at the hand history. If he can provide other screen shots it may help his case. With that said, the CS rep should still be reprimanded at the very least

I actually didnt continue to play.

As you can tell from the hand history, I exited the screen after the AQ one at 10:35. The reason for this is because I thought there was an error on my side and I went to go switch computers (I have a laptop that is in my room, and there is a computer in my family room.)

I made a screenshot of the AQ around 10:35 or whatever it is... and then got caught up in the game I was watching, and went back on the other computer to play finally at 11:05. I didnt just keep on going.. I stopped and switched computers because I get a better connection with the regular computer.

[Unchained]

Brian, JerseyShop busted you. For $67 you put BetPhoenix security techs, customer service people, and managers on notice for hours. They have a right to be pissed off.

Cooome Onnn Man.

[BrianLaverty]

Jersey, been following this with interest. Kinda wanted to see if this was gonna go down like the guy whose kid lost his balance there. I was trying to figure out "motive" because it didn't seem plausible that it was for that small amt of money. If you are correct, Phoenix and SBR owe u a few sbr points!! lol cause if money is not the motivation here, then the motivation has to be to smear Phoenix. In any case, as several have mentioned here, Richard settles this stuff (no matter who is right) in the favor of the player most of the time. Good PR but a major pain for him i imagine. By the way, Jeff won't be out of work long. He already has the skillset to work for Tony at Dimes.

I dont know anything about some kid who lost his balance. Have no idea how it ended up as I am not able to be at the computer every day.

With that said, I admit I was playing all along and even admit that I lost a balance of 1500 on monday morning. I even admit that Jeff gave me 10% of my casino losses back that day because I complained about how my casino wasnt even supposed to be open. It was suppose dto be shut permenately because I dont like to use the casino but sometimes chase with it and lose alot more then I should. Thats a whole nother issue though and Jeff was very kind about that.

What motivation would I have to smear Phoenix? If you havent noticed, I have given them HUGE praise in almost every post about them up until Tuesday when they accused me of cheating. Look at my old posts!!!!! Look at my posts on covers!! I put my neck out ad stuck up for them several times when the whole place was against them... Now all of a sudden I want to smear them?

Hell, a few weeks ago they had lines up at the completely wrong time in a few Sun Belt basketball games and I helped them out with it!!! Ive never had anything but praise for them... And there is certainly a few at the computer that do a great job... I have no reason to smear them.. I actually have been trying to avoid getting to this point because I really appreciate the bonuses they have given me. But I just think they are wrong on this case and now Im getting ripped because of it... Its not because I hate Phoenix, because I dont and I probably would continue playing there if we can come to a reasonable conclusion.... and its definitely not the amount of money because I tipped them half of what I Bet here.. and because I was betting 100 a hand the next day.. .I obviously am not stressing out the fact that they owe me 67 dollars... Its all about the fact that I feel like I should get what I am owed, and I definitely shouldnt have been talked to this way. Especially not with how much i praise them, and how much business i have been giving them.

[BrianLaverty]

Unchained... this has cost me alot more time then it has them. All they do is email the tech support people in Singapore, while I have been on the phone and live chat for countless hours since Monday trying to figure out what happened.

JerseyShop busted me how? Because it shows the same Hand History # and the screen didnt change? Why THE **** would i do this over 65 dollars? I just dont get why you guys think this.

If I smart enough to go through the whole process on photoshop, dont you think id notice every little detail? Im not stupid enough to not change the damn hand history because thats the integral part to there argument. I didnt alter the screenshot, even though I knew damn well this looks bad.

Ask marino about the screenshot or any of that.... I didnt ****in alter the picture. I am a graduate of Bryant University for business and am currently going to grad school for psychology at Boston University. Im not THAT stupid.

[betphoenix]

I had all of the proof of what happened yesterday evening...I was more looking at how to handle this today with kid-gloves. At times it is hard to handle these situations in a way that is politically correct. I prefer these things offscreen at times because nobody wins here. The Managers and Reps involved were told this was a fraudulent situation by the Casino Manager, so they were a tad crass with Brian and quick to close the account. I do not agree with or condone the tone of the chat regardless of the situation.

That being said...I will close this down at this point with a heavy head due to the fact that I actually like Brian and am a tad confused as to why this ever transpired at all. Contact me Brian richard@betphoenix.com. The rest of this we can handle offscreen I hope.

Jersey,

You made my life 1 million % easier today and thank you for that...contact me as well, I have something for you.

[BrianLaverty]

By the way... here are some of my quotes about betphoenix untiul I started this thread:

[COLOR=#000000 ! important]

I havent had any problems with this site at all.. I dont get it... If the new one is going slow, go to the old version and it works fine. And if not, just call them up and place the wager that way..

Just Tuesday:

**** the bullshit.. betphoenix has been my favorite book the last 6 months... Never have any problems depositing/cashing out... customer service is great....

Again Tuesday:

I've been with the book for 6+ months and have had no problems at all.


I also have money at close to 10 B+ or better books... Id say betphoenix is a top 4 within them.

Betphx definitely is an A book IMO

[/COLOR]

Cant believe how many people still bash this book...

I know people in Costa Rica and have them check out the statuses of some books down there sometimes.

Well, I was told that they have a very impressive building and seem like a very stand up company. Also mentioned to me about some kind of side work that betphoenix does, not just bookmaking but other stuff.

So today Im talking to Chris for about 3 hours because of a malfunction in there casino software, where I didnt get credited for a blackjack when I clearly hit it (and had a screenshot to prove it.) They seem to have gotten that taken care of, and will credit my account tomorrow. Chris (sales) and Carlos (casino manager) did a great job handling it and were very patient with me when i was getting visibly agitated. Very professional on both of there parts. Anyway, back to my point, Chris told me that betphoenix is not just a bookmaker, but actually have a sports training center. They have a big boxing ring and casino in there basement. They dont just do online gambling, but have some big training gym that is very successful in Costa Rica. This is what my friend was talking about I guess. Its always nice to see when a book is not just a book, but a product. Theres huge differences between this company and ones that went under like Cascade. Its not even close.....

I really cant say enough what kind of help Chris and my sales manager, Jeff, are. They are the best sales reps that I have ever dealt with.. and that includes businesses here in the US. Its crazy to me that they get trashed so much just cause of some downtime.... While there is no one here that trashes Matchbook at all when they are very clearly on the down hill road.

Obviously i feel like an idiot now.

[robertg]

I can't fathom why Phoenix would try to screw someone out of 67 bucks. I think you should focus on your grad school and drop the blackjack. Trust me, thats FRIENDLY advice.

robert

[trumpdown]

At any rate Richard handled it with class.

[soxwin1917]

This thread took a crazy turn for me. I was squarely behind Brian at the beginning, but Jersey showed what the truth really is in this case.

Nicely done Jersey.

[BrianLaverty]

UPDATE:

Just called up and spoke to Richard (and Jeff).

There's clearly a mixup someway... I guess we have to agree to disagree. There's no way of proving my innocence and I guess I just have to come to that conclusion.

Richard was very helpful, and though I still think he doesn't believe me, he agreed to open up my account and give me a freeplay. Not to show that they were wrong, but actually, the opposite. He handled it well and I guess I see where they are coming from. I also hope that they see where Im coming from, and I hope you guys understand that i didn't cheat, but whatever. Also, if you notice on the screenshot that my connection is next to null. Maybe theres a mix up with the connection and my laptop froze? I dont know.... But Richard is right, it makes the both of us look bad and I guess there's no good that comes out of it. Thanks alot though Richard for taking care of this.

I also asked to speak to Jeff, and we kissed and made up (no homo). He took it personally that they thought I was cheating and he thought I kind of stabbed him in the back. On the other side, I took it very personally that I was being accused of cheating and that i "chickened" out. You guys have to understand that there is nothing worse then to accuse an innocent man. I still stress that I didn't cheat, and they insist that evidence says I do.

While Im not happy that I didnt get BJ, Im glad I worked things out with the book, and just hope they realize that Ive never one to take shots and cheat. You can look at my history at every book ive been at, whether it be pinnacle back in the day, betjamaica, the greek, 5dimes, etc. Hell, I wagered 12,000 on one football game in September at 5dimes... I'm not cheating over 65 dollars.

But thank you both Fred and Richard for showing some class and I apologize to Jeff for having to read the negative things said about him on this forum.