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By "knew" you mean "saw"? Because I doubt thousands of people actually KNEW Jesus and hanged and chilled with him. As far as I know, Jesus wasn't quite the rock star back then as he is today. So yeah, sure, there are thousands of those who were following Elvis and saw him on numerous occasions (concerts, Vegas, whatever) and claim to have seen him since his death... Maybe he's the new prophet? Was his father a carpenter too?
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The people who witnessed him after his death were his disciples, his mother, and his closest friends. He reappeared to them and gave them the command to spread what he had taught them throughout the world, then he ascended to heaven after spending 40 days and 40 nights with those he was closest too on Earth.
Since there was no mass media back then, no Television, etc. I doubt anyone who didnt know his well during his life would have even recognized him. So yeah thousands of average people may have seen him after he was resurrected, they just wouldnt have even known who he was.
But the Bible also says when he died the skies went dark and even some of the most ardent crucifiers realized they have made a mistake and realized he was who he said he was. the Bible records one guy who was happy to be involved in the crucifiction who cried out, "Surely this was the son of god".
But like I said, we are only ~30 years after Elvis death and he is pretty much been forgotten about. He has been replaced by Springsteen, Michael Jackson, Bieber, whoever. That only took 30 years. Somehow 2000+ years after Jesus death, well over half the world worships him. But of course that doesnt mean anything to you. That just happened by luck, kind of like all the events in his life that were foretold at least 450 years before his birth, kind of like that life occuring with a brain, and an ability to Evolve as you say. Who would have know that could all just happen by dumb luck. But of course, you have to believe it just all happened by dumb luck. Thank God I dont believe that.Comment -
You said that the fact that thousands claimed they saw him after his death (and still do) is a proof of that being true. Whether he's going to be as popular or not after hundreds of years is irrelevant, as that is not what your claim was based on, nor would basing such a claim based on ones popularity make sense...
Christianity got embedded into many cultures, it's teachings became a fundamental part of them and parents (with support and guiding of The company) kept on brainwashing their children to think the same, so you obviously can't compare this to a once popular singer.
There were no HOLY WARS and CRUSADES in the name of Elvis either. So yeah, good job on forcing the Christianity down peoples throat and murdering those who were not willing to accept YOUR god... Condemning people to eternal fire (as I still hear people say today) for not believing is just another face of your religion, or should I say it's followers - lovely people indeed!
And last... There were lots of so called "prophets" throughout the history belonging to different religions and most long forgotten. Jesus was just "lucky" enough that "his" religion stuck with us for so long (though he's probably turning in his grave seeing what it has since been turned into). Doesn't mean there won't be other religions and other "prophets" in the future... I can think of at least one another, still rather popular and every day more so it seems. Whos god is the real God? And why is your God and stories from your holy book any more real than that of another religion?Last edited by JBT; 04-19-11, 08:26 PM.Comment -
No beginning? Always existed?
Kind of a convenient "catch all" explanation for something that you just can't explain... right there with "miracle" and "magic" 
I wonder what he was doing all those infinite years before he decided to create the Earth about 6000 years ago, which is apparently how old the Earth is according to the Bible
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Yes, predicted as written in the New Testament, which was written hundreds of years after these "prophecies" supposedly took place. So again, using the Bible as proof of something because its in the Bible. Is there any other source of a Yosef the Galilean ever even existing? Nope.
BTW, infinity is a human creation, and human creation is a side-consequence of consciousness, which is a side-consequence of a bigger brain, which is a side-consequence of a more spatial uterus, which is a side-consequence of an increase clitoral pleasure lining. Things are nature are quite finite I can assure you.Comment -
During this holy week I will pray for those who deny GOD. Through the darkness he brings light. Salvation is for all of us. The triduum begins Thursday with the last supper into Friday on the cross and Saturday, the resurrection. For the kingdom of heaven is upon us.Comment -
People not realise the Bible is a fable yet?Comment -
No, the predictions of Jesus coming and life and death and resurecetion are in the OT, not the new testament. The prophecies of the NT are mainly the second coming, and the end of the world.
There are many many prophecies of Jesus birth, life, and death in Isiah alone. That is the OT. These prophecies are made throughout the OT, not the NT.Comment -
I am sure your avatar Charlie Sheen knows the bible is a "fable" as you say.
Wow, he is so rich, so famous, comes from a good family, he is a really good looking guy who can gets lots of hot women. His family loves him, he is famous, he can buy anything he wants, dude probably has $500,000,000 or more in net worth. He has everything this world can offer.
Now tell me, why is he so messed up ?Comment -
Where does the bible say this ? Can you give me the verse ? No you cant. Because the bible doesnt say anything of the sort.
Still waiting on those 10,000 people who will say with a straight face that they saw Elvis.
Lol. You evolutionists are real good at making things up. Why am I not surprised at that ?Comment -
look at all the wasted time and energy that religion has caused in this thread alone
....ill pass
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Pascal writes, “Let us weigh up the gain and loss involved in calling heads that God exists. If you win, you win everything. If you lose, you lose nothing.
Pascal states the argument this way:
You have two things to lose: the true and the good; and two things to stake: your reason and your will, your knowledge and your happiness; and your nature has two things to avoid: error and wretchedness. Since you must necessarily choose, your reason is no more affronted by choosing one rather than the other. That is one point cleared up. But your happiness? Let us weigh up the gain and the loss involved in calling heads that God exists. Let us assess the two cases: if you win, you win everything: if you lose, you lose nothing. Do not hesitate then: wager that he does exist.
<DIR>PETER KREEFT writes:
The most powerful part of Pascal's argument comes next. It is not his refutation of atheism as a foolish wager (that comes last) but his refutation of agnosticism as impossible. Agnosticism, not-knowing, maintaining a sceptical, uncommitted attitude, seems to be the most reasonable option. The agnostic says, "The right thing is not to wager at all." Pascal replies, "But you must wager. There is no choice. You are already committed [embarked]." We are not outside observers of life, but participants. We are like ships that need to get home, sailing past a port that has signs on it proclaiming that it is our true home and our true happiness. The ships are our own lives and the signs on the port say "God". The agnostic says he will neither put in at that port (believe) nor turn away from it (disbelieve) but stay anchored a reasonable distance away until the weather clears and he can see better whether this is the true port or a fake (for there are a lot of fakes around). Why is this attitude unreasonable, even impossible? Because we are moving. The ship of life is moving along the waters of time, and there comes a point of no return, when our fuel runs out, when it is too late. The Wager works because of the fact of death.
Once it is decided that we must wager; once it is decided that there are only two options, theism and atheism, not three, theism, atheism, and agnosticism; then the rest of the argument is simple. Atheism is a terrible bet. It gives you no chance of winning the red prize.
If God does not exist, it does not matter how you wager, for there is nothing to win after death and nothing to lose after death. But if God does exist, your only chance of winning eternal happiness is to believe, and your only chance of losing it is to refuse to believe. As Pascal says, "I should be much more afraid of being mistaken and then finding out that Christianity is true than of being mistaken in believing it to be true." If you believe too much, you neither win nor lose eternal happiness. But if you believe too little, you risk losing everything.
An atheist visited the great rabbi and philosopher Martin Buber and demanded that Buber prove the existence of God to him. Buber refused, and the atheist got up to leave in anger. As he left, Buber called after him, "But can you be sure there is no God?" That atheist wrote, forty years later, "I am still an atheist. But Buber's question has haunted me every day of my life." The Wager has just that haunting power.
</DIR>To the high-minded objector who refuses to believe for the low motive of saving the eternal skin of his own soul, we may reply that the Wager works quite as well if we change the motive. Let us say we want to give God his due if there is a God. Now if there is a God, justice demands total faith, hope, love, obedience, and worship. If there is a God and we refuse to give him these things, we sin maximally against the truth. But the only chance of doing infinite justice is if God exists and we believe, while the only chance of doing infinite injustice is if God exists and we do not believe. If God does not exist, there is no one there to do infinite justice or infinite injustice to. So the motive of doing justice moves the Wager just as well as the motive of seeking happiness. Pascal used the more selfish motive because we all have that all the time, while only some are motivated by justice, and only some of the time.Comment -
In response to Pronk's latest post... it's quite hilarious. Around a million assumptions were made and you don't even realize it. That's what's so disturbing about it. #1 You are assuming that if there IS a God it must naturally be the God of the Bible. There are THOUSANDS of different religions and they all disagree about thousands of different things. Isn't there a CHANCE that there could be a God that isn't the God of the Bible? AND if there is a God that isn't the God from the Bible how do you know what he wants from us? Maybe he only allows skeptics into Heaven. I'm not saying that I believe this... to me it's all nonsense. Also... to quote Clarence Darrow "I am an Agnostic; I do not pretend to know what many ignorant men are sure of." How can somebody possibly "know" something that is not knowable? If you think you know... you are are a moron. I assure you... you don't know. Penn defines Agnostic in this video far better than I ever could. Start watching it at around the 3:50 mark. I agree with Penn... we are all Agnostics... and if you are not... you belong in a mental institution.
Last edited by JohnGalt2341; 04-20-11, 10:14 PM.Comment -
Here's just a few Bible Contradictions for anyone that is a believer. Someone please explain to me why there are so many contradictions in the Bible? It's almost as if ONE can pick and choose what they believe... hmm.. interesting. If you are a Christian... ask yourself... do you PICK AND CHOOSE which parts of the Bible you believe.. or do you actually believe the entire thing? Either way you are a hypocrite. If you don't think you are... watch this video again.
Last edited by JohnGalt2341; 04-20-11, 10:20 PM.Comment -
Another thing that disturbs me deeply is... the story of Jesus is not even an original one. It's sort of the "Hollywood" version of the story so naturally everyone fell in love with it. Watch this video for further explanation:
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8 min. of my life I'll never get back, what a waste! Who is that doped fatso yelling and screaming at 2 cameras?
JG, have you ever read the Bible from start to finish for if you have, you wouldn't watch that fat moron ever againComment -
Are you referring to Penn Jillette? This proves my point exactly. Penn doesn't do drugs. Doesn't drink. Doesn't smoke. Nor has he ever. But YOU are making an assumption. And you are WRONG! I will grant you that he is overweight... he is well aware of that. Thanks for pointing it out though. Now, I ask YOU... have YOU ever read the Bible from start to finish? How can you get past the first 3 pages without knowing it is complete nonsense? Read the first 3 pages of the Bible... anyone who believes that is either under the age of 12 or is a complete idiot. Which are you? I hope you respond to this... I am going to quote some passages of the first 3 pages of the Bible in my next message. It's absolutely hilarious... how could anyone with an IQ over 70 actually believe such crap?Comment -
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To answer your question if I read the Bible from start to finish- you bet, at least 4 times and with each time I read it I appreciated this amazing Book more and more.Comment -
For those trying to educate themselves, especially those that deem themselves scientifically inclined, or are at least trying to use science to quickly write off God.
New Proofs for the Existence of GodComment -
obviously religion is a scam..and so is the fact that there were dinosaours...they would have eaten the whole planet if they existed...they all dropped dead when a meteor hit and weren't discovered until 1875 by some english guy who glued some bones together and said look what i found...like no one found them sooner because they never existed and this english guy wanted to start a cottage industry so he said look what i discovered the dinosaour..come to my museum and see it...what a crock...Comment -
"But things are so pretty and I don't understand how they got there, therefore god."
At least some of the physics in this book is right. The Second Law of Thermodynamics argument is extremely barren and ignorant, though. The second law considers isolated systems where the states of heat differences are constant. For example, I heat up a cup of coffee, then let it sit, it will lose heat.
The problem is, organisms have this habit of absorbing nutrients, aka, we eat. We also move. I can't unscramble an egg but I can feed it to a chicken. Any child knows this. Just another example of how the idea of god can masque reason. Its a memetic virus that does nothing good but make copies of itself by appealing to the desirable.Comment -
You sure you know your book son?
According to the Bible, Adam lived about 6000 years ago. So Earth, according to the Bible, is also about 6000 years old, since Adam was the first man, created in the first week of the Earth's existence.
And don't give me no bullshit how "days" are actually just "stages" and not literally days, as you can't just selectively take out a word here and a paragraph there and (miss)interpret it as it best suits your personal foul interests... The Bible is quite clear on what it meant by seven days:
"Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour and do all thy work. But the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God. In it thou shalt not do any work, neither thou nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy maidservant nor thy cattle nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea and all that in them is and rested the seventh day; wherefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it." Exodus 20:8-11
The reference could not be any clearer. So yeah, according to the Bible, Earth is indeed no more than 6000 years old
What say thee?Comment -
you cant reanimate life. he would have not had oxygen to his brain for some time resulting in him being brain dead anyway. no one has successful been able to reanimate life so to think it is possible would be illogical. a person of rational thinking would not think it is possible.
however this has nothing to do with the existence of God just the lunacy of Christian beliefs.Comment -
A fool takes no pleasure in understanding, but only in expressing his opinion. Prov.18:2
and another to you oh FOOL of sbr:
A whip for the horse, a bridle for the donkey, and a rod for the back of fools. Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest you be like him yourself. Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own eyes. Whoever sends a message by the hand of a fool cuts off his own feet and drinks violence. Like a lame man's legs, which hang useless, is a proverb in the mouth of fools. ...
Prov. 26:3-12
‘Fool! This night your soul is required of you, and the things you have prepared, whose will they be?’
"Men are born ignorant, not stupid. They are made stupid by education."
-Bertrand RussellComment
"God hoo?" 
