Let The Debate Begin: EVOLUTION VS CREATIONISM
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chilidogSBR Posting Legend
- 04-05-09
- 10305
#456Comment -
PhillyFlyersSBR Hall of Famer
- 09-27-11
- 8245
#458
Pretty clear that God is outside of human comprehension.Comment -
chilidogSBR Posting Legend
- 04-05-09
- 10305
#459Sure. I don't see any reason why that isn't plausible especially in the light of the fact that we're talking about a being capable of creating the universe through sheer will, and creating the world and entire species with a word.
Pretty clear that God is outside of human comprehension.Comment -
Footy4JesusSBR Sharp
- 01-15-14
- 386
#460
I mean that you are trying to argue your beliefs with someone in one post which is fine, but then you resort to calling them an A**hole in the next when you aren't getting through to them. You aren't going to win anybody over doing that and you don't do yourself or other Christians any favors by it. You cant win them all over, its ok. It takes them to have an open heart to the idea in the first place and this is out of our control.
I know you mean well bro, so do continue! And I appreciate this thread that you opened. The popularity of it goes to show how many people are struggling with these big questions. There may only be a dozen people that have contributed to the discussion but I'm sure there are many times over that are quietly observing it. That is why I said what I said to you, just keep that in mind.Comment -
Footy4JesusSBR Sharp
- 01-15-14
- 386
#461
Dead matter, dust.... whats the difference?
Regardless if either is true, something had to give inorganic material life. As far as I've researched into biology, science doesn't explain well how this occurred. The best guess they can come up with is that these compounds somehow magically bounced together at the perfect time and came together in some fashion where it could replicate. For such an incidence to happen, it would be more difficult than winning the lottery every day of your life. Virtually impossible.
This is such a shoddy argument and if such a thing were true, then scientists would be able to prove this and create life themselves. But they cant. Life comes from life. Without life, there would be no living.
Plants dont live off of non-living things, either. They need fungi in their roots to uptake nutrients from soil, the fungi needs organic matter that came from dead things, and the organic matter is made bio-available by microorganisms. Its a cycle, the circle of life.
The only thing that could have set this into motion is something living. A living God that breathed life into the world and man.
Genesis 2:7
And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.Comment -
PhillyFlyersSBR Hall of Famer
- 09-27-11
- 8245
#462
Show one example of an ape turning into a human.
Show one example of any animal turning into an entirely different one.
You disregard the stability of species so easily.
Going by your logic, then, I can safely assume you believe in werewolves or at least the possibility of them.Comment -
PhillyFlyersSBR Hall of Famer
- 09-27-11
- 8245
#463I mean that you are trying to argue your beliefs with someone in one post which is fine, but then you resort to calling them an A**hole in the next when you aren't getting through to them. You aren't going to win anybody over doing that and you don't do yourself or other Christians any favors by it. You cant win them all over, its ok. It takes them to have an open heart to the idea in the first place and this is out of our control.
I know you mean well bro, so do continue! And I appreciate this thread that you opened. The popularity of it goes to show how many people are struggling with these big questions. There may only be a dozen people that have contributed to the discussion but I'm sure there are many times over that are quietly observing it. That is why I said what I said to you, just keep that in mind.
You haven't been here long enough to figure out who's who yet.Comment -
swordsandtequilaSBR Hall of Famer
- 02-23-12
- 9757
#464Not at all.
Show one example of an ape turning into a human.
Show one example of any animal turning into an entirely different one.
You disregard the stability of species so easily.
Going by your logic, then, I can safely assume you believe in werewolves or at least the possibility of them.
Show one example of a human rib bone turning into a human female. If you tell me the bible I'll tell you the wolfman.Comment -
chilidogSBR Posting Legend
- 04-05-09
- 10305
#467
See what I did there? There's no evidence either way. All we are left with are theories. There is zero evidence to support either theory. To claim that because there is no evidence, a grand creator had to have done it ... is simply a fallacy.
Yes, life is massively complex. It is intrinsically complicated, it is beautiful. Just learning the complexities of human physiology are amazing; the ways that everything just fits together perfectly. I understand the creationist theory; that because life is too complex to be random, something must have created it. I get it, I really do.
But there is no evidence to support that. It is a theory. Science offers no explanation, either. All they have are theories. Both sides will argue to the death that they are correct. But neither is right, nor wrong. There is no debate to be had. A debate requires facts - something that this topic severely lacks. It can not be resolved.Comment -
Footy4JesusSBR Sharp
- 01-15-14
- 386
#468
There is evidence to support either theory.
What is up for debate is which sides argument is more reliable.
If because something hasn't been proven for you by others doesn't make you think, because somebody else didn't do the work for you, then you aren't thinking. Call it being a follower and not a leader, not being a free mind or independent thinker, crowd mentality.. its being dumb. This is what uneducated people do, its the majority of Americans, and the reason why our voting system is broken and idiots like Nancy Pelosi continue to get elected. Cmon man. Free your mind and think outside the box for a bit.Comment -
swordsandtequilaSBR Hall of Famer
- 02-23-12
- 9757
#469This is untrue.
There is evidence to support either theory.
What is up for debate is which sides argument is more reliable.
If because something hasn't been proven for you by others doesn't make you think, because somebody else didn't do the work for you, then you aren't thinking. Call it being a follower and not a leader, not being a free mind or independent thinker, crowd mentality.. its being dumb. This is what uneducated people do, its the majority of Americans, and the reason why our voting system is broken and idiots like Nancy Pelosi continue to get elected. Cmon man. Free your mind and think outside the box for a bit.Comment -
Footy4JesusSBR Sharp
- 01-15-14
- 386
#470Pot calling the kettle black, don't you think? Being a follower, not being an independent thinker? Religious zealots are the most close-minded people walking the face of the earth. Most agnostics/atheists are open to the idea there may be a greater force at work, something we don't yet understand, they just don't claim to have all the answers. Idiots like Philly say "I'm right, you're all wrong, burn in hell assholes." He and his ilk may be in the minority, but just like the hard right they scream the loudest. Stay around long enough and you'll understand why he's considered the forum tool.
Ive mentioned before that I havent always been Christian. I was brought up that way, but fell away from the church when I entered highschool and never stepped foot in another one for over 10 years.
School is a very anti-religious place. Even more so in college. When you begin to start thinking for yourself and are already doubting God and the things you were brought up into, being in that kind of environment surrounded by atheists can take its toll on your faith. Many fall away from it completely. If you never had faith in God before, your atheistic ideas are even more solidified.
What I am saying is that school isn't necessarily a bad place, but that it often does the exact opposite from teaching you to think for yourself. Many instructors will try to indoctrinate you with their beliefs instead of teaching objectively and letting their students form their own opinion.
For years and years I tried to make sense of religion, God, and everything related to it. It seemed so silly to me and all I knew was the things I've been taught in school and if it could not be proven through a scientific method or some other form of analysis then I wouldn't believe it to be true. In short, if it could not be proven by science then it wasn't real.
Still, I had this feeling deep inside that i continued to ignore. I could not be satisfied by the unclear answer that atheism provides. I craved something more... there had to be something more. More than just the fact that we live, we die, and then thats it? Nothing else? The world goes on as if I never even existed? How depressing.
It took a very long time for me to finally get honest with myself that maybe there was a little something more than just living then dying. There HAD to be some kind of reason behind all of this. If there isnt, then why the heck am I here? What purpose do I serve? Once I started questioning these things and began to search into the possibility that maybe theres also a spiritual element to life than just the physical, my life began to take on such a bigger meaning. I do serve a purpose. There is a reason I am here. I may not know exactly what it is, and that is why I am not God. Someone has to know though. Something had to put me here. There is some force that makes the world go round and why things in life seem to happen that you know are for a reason or just too uncanny to be a coincidence when things fall into place.
So no, I do not believe that being religious means you aren't an independent thinker at all. It definitely can be that way especially if you grew up in a religious setting and just go through the motions, but you could argue the same for people brought up with atheistic parents. Its well documented that you have a higher rate of being the same faith as your parents or same political views. Theres no doubt that the people you grow up around and surround yourself with will have an impact on you. That doesn't mean you don't have a choice, though. Its just that it takes a lot of work to think for yourself so many choose not to and just stay where theyve been their whole life. What they are comfortable with.
I have lived life with God, then without him, then with him again. I've been on both sides of the fence and know exactly where atheists are coming from. I get it. Thats why I wont ever get mad at them because I understand how hard it is to have faith in something that you cannot prove. Its just after I opened up my mind to the slight possibility that there may be something more to life that science cant explain that it continued to snowball from there. With atheism there is no hope. God gives you that hope, he fills that void in your life that your soul naturally longs for. He made it that way. If only man can lose his pride. And thats the big roadblock. Pride. If you can let it go, then you might be surprised at what you find.
So no, Im not following the crowd. Actually, I would say being a person of faith in todays world is quite the contrary. Being a person of faith is not for the weak and feeble minded. It actually takes alot of strength and courage to keep your faith in a world that will mock and ridicule you for it.
And I am thinking independently with a free mind. I've pondered both sides of the God argument, I've lived it, and on my own free will have I come to the conclusion that God makes a whole lot more sense to me than atheism.
Keep asking yourself these questions, brother. Keep looking and you'll find answers. Might I even say, though you may feel its silly and that you're talking to some imaginary friend, pray to God. You might be surprised to see what happens. He will answer you.Comment -
brooks85SBR Aristocracy
- 01-05-09
- 44709
#471
Are you sure you know what the word IN means? Lets try again
"So Catholic Monasteries were the origin of museums? I guess that library of Alexandria was just in a storage locker then."
And either way, you've accepted that catholics didn't start museums.Last edited by brooks85; 02-15-14, 10:40 AM.Comment -
brooks85SBR Aristocracy
- 01-05-09
- 44709
#472This is untrue.
There is evidence to support either theory.
What is up for debate is which sides argument is more reliable.
If because something hasn't been proven for you by others doesn't make you think, because somebody else didn't do the work for you, then you aren't thinking. Call it being a follower and not a leader, not being a free mind or independent thinker, crowd mentality.. its being dumb. This is what uneducated people do, its the majority of Americans, and the reason why our voting system is broken and idiots like Nancy Pelosi continue to get elected. Cmon man. Free your mind and think outside the box for a bit.Last edited by brooks85; 02-15-14, 11:04 AM.Comment -
chilidogSBR Posting Legend
- 04-05-09
- 10305
#473I will await your evidence supporting both evolution and creationism. Facts, please. Actual evidence. No theories.
This is untrue.
There is evidence to support either theory.
What is up for debate is which sides argument is more reliable.
If because something hasn't been proven for you by others doesn't make you think, because somebody else didn't do the work for you, then you aren't thinking. Call it being a follower and not a leader, not being a free mind or independent thinker, crowd mentality.. its being dumb. This is what uneducated people do, its the majority of Americans, and the reason why our voting system is broken and idiots like Nancy Pelosi continue to get elected. Cmon man. Free your mind and think outside the box for a bit.Comment -
Footy4JesusSBR Sharp
- 01-15-14
- 386
#474
You guys really need to think about what you are saying. I know we all probably aren't students of Law, but I have done enough study to know that fact and evidence are not the same thing.
Lets just say that you are the judge presiding over the case between evolution vs. creationism. In a way, you really are so this analogy fits. Maybe not coming to a ruling for all people, but you are coming to a decision for yourself.
All evidence presented in a court is not on the same level. There is circumstantial evidence that is based off of weaker arguments and assertions, then there is direct irrefutable proof. When you are talking about scientific evidence, you are using known theories to attempt coming to a conclusion about what is more probable. It often does not prove that the evidence is fact. After all, many of these scientific hypotheses are theories. Thats why they are called theories. Many things once thought of as true in science in the past don't hold water today.
Still, it can be used as evidence in the court. Its not necessarily the nail in the coffin for the prosecution or accused, but merely added to the collection of all the evidence presented to which the judge or jury will use to come to a decision.. What the judge or jury must come to is a direct burden of proof for whatever side by which the evidence offers. The decision is made if the case can be proven without a reasonable doubt.
Not without a doubt whatsoever, but without a reasonable one. Big difference there. Often guilt of the accused cannot be proven without a single doubt. But the likelihood that the accused did commit the crime is so high that it is taken as meeting the burden of proof. It may not be absolute proof, but enough that the judge or jury is sold on whether they are most probably guilty or innocent. If our law system required us to proof without a single doubt the accused is guilty, how could we ever try and convict people? Every criminal would be walking free because they had one little thing that cast some doubt on their guilt.
Perhaps there is a law major out there that can clear up some of the lingo on this issue, but from what I know:
evidence, facts, theories= not the same.Comment -
Footy4JesusSBR Sharp
- 01-15-14
- 386
#475
I also wont take my own time to explain to you something that you might not even take the time to read. Especially if you already aren't going into into it with an open mind. If you truly are open to finding answers for yourself, then I cant do the work for you. You need to do your own homework.Comment -
chilidogSBR Posting Legend
- 04-05-09
- 10305
#476I also wont take my own time to explain to you something that you might not even take the time to read. Especially if you already aren't going into into it with an open mind. If you truly are open to finding answers for yourself, then I cant do the work for you. You need to do your own homework.Comment -
chilidogSBR Posting Legend
- 04-05-09
- 10305
#477Semantics.
You guys really need to think about what you are saying. I know we all probably aren't students of Law, but I have done enough study to know that fact and evidence are not the same thing.
Lets just say that you are the judge presiding over the case between evolution vs. creationism. In a way, you really are so this analogy fits. Maybe not coming to a ruling for all people, but you are coming to a decision for yourself.
All evidence presented in a court is not on the same level. There is circumstantial evidence that is based off of weaker arguments and assertions, then there is direct irrefutable proof. When you are talking about scientific evidence, you are using known theories to attempt coming to a conclusion about what is more probable. It often does not prove that the evidence is fact. After all, many of these scientific hypotheses are theories. Thats why they are called theories. Many things once thought of as true in science in the past don't hold water today.
Still, it can be used as evidence in the court. Its not necessarily the nail in the coffin for the prosecution or accused, but merely added to the collection of all the evidence presented to which the judge or jury will use to come to a decision.. What the judge or jury must come to is a direct burden of proof for whatever side by which the evidence offers. The decision is made if the case can be proven without a reasonable doubt.
Not without a doubt whatsoever, but without a reasonable one. Big difference there. Often guilt of the accused cannot be proven without a single doubt. But the likelihood that the accused did commit the crime is so high that it is taken as meeting the burden of proof. It may not be absolute proof, but enough that the judge or jury is sold on whether they are most probably guilty or innocent. If our law system required us to proof without a single doubt the accused is guilty, how could we ever try and convict people? Every criminal would be walking free because they had one little thing that cast some doubt on their guilt.
Perhaps there is a law major out there that can clear up some of the lingo on this issue, but from what I know:
evidence, facts, theories= not the same.Comment -
Footy4JesusSBR Sharp
- 01-15-14
- 386
#478
Listen guy. I have devoted hours of my time to this single thread. If you go back through all of the pages I clearly have the longest, most drawn out and in depth posts out of anybody. I have given a lot of evidence already, and there is much more out there if you want to find it.
What none of you have done is return the same favor. The only responses coming back from atheists are your one-liners, a single sentence or two, and nothing to back up why you feel the way you do. Please, explain to me your side of the story. Im all ears. Im interested to see if one of you can do it without resorting to any slanderous insults on people of faith or jew-bashing, because thats all thats gone on here.
The reason I wont take the time to provide you evidence is not because I dont have any, but because I already have if you just opened your eyes. But you have not. You already go into the reply with your mind closed and ready to attack whatever I say that you can use against me. I'm not stupid,and I'm not going to play your games.
If you have already decided for yourself what you want to believe, fine. But don't ask me to waste my time to explain my faith more deeply so it can fall on your deaf ears.Comment -
swordsandtequilaSBR Hall of Famer
- 02-23-12
- 9757
#479I'm not a law major but I say: Case dismissed.Comment -
lucullusSBR MVP
- 09-16-13
- 1027
#480Listen guy. I have devoted hours of my time to this single thread. If you go back through all of the pages I clearly have the longest, most drawn out and in depth posts out of anybody. I have given a lot of evidence already, and there is much more out there if you want to find it.
What none of you have done is return the same favor. The only responses coming back from atheists are your one-liners, a single sentence or two, and nothing to back up why you feel the way you do. Please, explain to me your side of the story. Im all ears. Im interested to see if one of you can do it without resorting to any slanderous insults on people of faith or jew-bashing, because thats all thats gone on here.
The reason I wont take the time to provide you evidence is not because I dont have any, but because I already have if you just opened your eyes. But you have not. You already go into the reply with your mind closed and ready to attack whatever I say that you can use against me. I'm not stupid,and I'm not going to play your games.
If you have already decided for yourself what you want to believe, fine. But don't ask me to waste my time to explain my faith more deeply so it can fall on your deaf ears.
Any one else notice this guy never really say's any thing? Very crafty man he is.Comment -
Footy4JesusSBR Sharp
- 01-15-14
- 386
#481Hey nice to see you stop by satan. You are just the hate-filled, slanderous Jew-basher I was talking about. The real deceitful and crafty one is you.Comment -
chilidogSBR Posting Legend
- 04-05-09
- 10305
#483So what I'm hearing is ... you have no evidence? At least I'm open-minded enough to realize that neither side is right, nor wrong. There is no evidence pointing to either side. There is a leap being made by both sides. They are both theories.
There is a direct correlation between religiosity and one's level of intellect.
Listen guy. I have devoted hours of my time to this single thread. If you go back through all of the pages I clearly have the longest, most drawn out and in depth posts out of anybody. I have given a lot of evidence already, and there is much more out there if you want to find it.
What none of you have done is return the same favor. The only responses coming back from atheists are your one-liners, a single sentence or two, and nothing to back up why you feel the way you do. Please, explain to me your side of the story. Im all ears. Im interested to see if one of you can do it without resorting to any slanderous insults on people of faith or jew-bashing, because thats all thats gone on here.
The reason I wont take the time to provide you evidence is not because I dont have any, but because I already have if you just opened your eyes. But you have not. You already go into the reply with your mind closed and ready to attack whatever I say that you can use against me. I'm not stupid,and I'm not going to play your games.
If you have already decided for yourself what you want to believe, fine. But don't ask me to waste my time to explain my faith more deeply so it can fall on your deaf ears.Comment -
20Four7SBR Hall of Famer
- 04-08-07
- 6703
#484Personally dude, I think you need to go back to school and take a philosophy course on religion and whether God exists. Listen to all the arguments over the years read Kant, Craig, Hawkins, Aquinas, Descartes and many others. This dates back to Plato. Unfortunately the bible thumpers do not want to hear an argument against them. Faith is great, but blind faith lead many nations including Germany to follow their leaders blindly. Hitler ruled on the faith of the nation.
Listen guy. I have devoted hours of my time to this single thread. If you go back through all of the pages I clearly have the longest, most drawn out and in depth posts out of anybody. I have given a lot of evidence already, and there is much more out there if you want to find it.
What none of you have done is return the same favor. The only responses coming back from atheists are your one-liners, a single sentence or two, and nothing to back up why you feel the way you do. Please, explain to me your side of the story. Im all ears. Im interested to see if one of you can do it without resorting to any slanderous insults on people of faith or jew-bashing, because thats all thats gone on here.
The reason I wont take the time to provide you evidence is not because I dont have any, but because I already have if you just opened your eyes. But you have not. You already go into the reply with your mind closed and ready to attack whatever I say that you can use against me. I'm not stupid,and I'm not going to play your games.
If you have already decided for yourself what you want to believe, fine. But don't ask me to waste my time to explain my faith more deeply so it can fall on your deaf ears.Comment -
Footy4JesusSBR Sharp
- 01-15-14
- 386
#485Been there. Loved philosophy. Just because I came out of it holding opinions on the subject different than your own doesn't mean I didn't get anything out of it.Comment -
chilidogSBR Posting Legend
- 04-05-09
- 10305
#486
1. What period in time they happened to have been born
2. What geographic meridien they happened to be residing
3. Cultural influences
That's it. How can any intelligent person not realize this? One can argue their chosen religion/Deity until they are blue in the face, but it still all boils down to the 3 options I just listed.
And when a person finally comes to terms with why they actually believe what they do, and they still continue to do so, well, there-in lies their true level of intelligence.Comment -
Footy4JesusSBR Sharp
- 01-15-14
- 386
#487So what I'm hearing is ... you have no evidence? At least I'm open-minded enough to realize that neither side is right, nor wrong. There is no evidence pointing to either side. There is a leap being made by both sides. They are both theories.
There is a direct correlation between religiosity and one's level of intellect.
The correlation between religion and intellect is all a matter of opinion. Studies have come up on both sides, and whos to say that the research studies aren't biased?
If you look into many of the worlds corporate executives, lawyers, judges, people who hold political office, university presidents and other well-respected members of society, they are active members of a church in their community. Yeah, these guys are real idiots.Comment -
muldoonSBR MVP
- 01-04-10
- 4397
#488
One is based on throwing your hands up in the air and saying "we'll never understand it - must have been God"
A person only needs to look at the mechanics of how a honeybee flies. Many creationist websites still cite the flight of a honeybee as proof that "Science says it's impossible - yet don't tell that to the bee!" (based on the size and weight of the body of the bee versus it's wing size)
Yet now, through high speed photography and controlled experiments, we understand that the bee alters it's flapping pattern which previously was thought to be more static like other insects.
This discover is less than 10 years old. Science keeps moving forward in discovery.
Meanwhile, in the other camp...."I know the bible is true, because it says so...right here in the bible"
One theory most definitely has evidence to support parts of it.Comment -
Footy4JesusSBR Sharp
- 01-15-14
- 386
#489
However, I challenge you to provide evidence towards anything in the bible to be untrue. Many have tried. All have failed.Comment -
rkelly110BARRELED IN @ SBR!
- 10-05-09
- 39691
#490Just to put my 2 cents in. There have been very intelligent people who feel the same way you guys do who didn't believe
in the almighty. They died and were brought back by science. They told an unbelievable story about the afterlife. They
are believers now. You tube testimonies are in the hundreds. Maybe check them out for the sake of an argument?Comment
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