Palins 17 year old daughter pregnant

[element1286]

You need to serve in combat to grasp the magnitude of war atrocities before you order a war against a country unprovoked and sending other people's sons and daughters to fight for you.

But if Obama is president is he allowed to order military action even though he does not have military experience?

[ryanXL977]

he says he wont order needless military action. why should i not believe him? i will trust someone till they lie to me

[durito]

mccain was in the military and he is for all sorts of needless wars

[element1286]

he says he wont order needless military action. why should i not believe him? i will trust someone till they lie to me

I am not here to debate which wars are necessary and which are not, but I thought your chickenhawk label was completely unfair.

[ryanXL977]

what chickenhawk label?

all i did was define a term for people like pimike who misused it
please reread

[element1286]

what chickenhawk label?

all i did was define a term for people like pimike who misused it
please reread

My bad, TeamPlayer's Chickenhawk label.

[pavyracer]

Bill Clinton didn't see any combat.

Yet he was able to wage a successful war against Serbia, without a single US combat casualty.

And that was my point. Clinton never risked any combat troops on the war against Serbia because he knew that the casualties for the US military forces would have been unacceptable for american public. George W Bush could have driven Saddam out similarly if he was smart enough.

[bmw530i]

...

[treece]

17 year old girls nowadays are such whores.

[bmw530i]

..

[TeamPlayer]

The point is that War should always be an option of "last resort!" because it is the closest thing to hell-on-earth.

Barack Obama will use war as a "last resort"

The problem with "chicken hawks" like Pimike or even Bush/Cheney is that they resort to war as a "first resort!" Therein lies the problem. They didn't have any proof that Hussein had weapons of mass destruction. They cherry-picked totally unsubstantiated evidence to justify their invasion. That's not how to run foreign policy any time, anywhere.

[TeamPlayer]

Do you get it now Element1286? Or is it still to complicated for ya

[RageWizard]

I just read the headline for this thread and I must say that is the typical republican operating procedure. The claim to have the upper moral values but in reality they are a do as I say, not as I do crowd. Don't forget all of the examples of anti gay gays that are in their rank and file of members.

[element1286]

The point is that War should always be an option of "last resort!" because it is the closest thing to hell-on-earth.

Barack Obama will use war as a "last resort"

The problem with "chicken hawks" like Pimike or even Bush/Cheney is that they resort to war as a "first resort!" Therein lies the problem. They didn't have any proof that Hussein had weapons of mass destruction. They cherry-picked totally unsubstantiated evidence to justify their invasion. That's not how to run foreign policy any time, anywhere.

Fair enough. I am not here to defend Bush, but I just don't think labels get us anywhere.

[ryanXL977]

I just read the headline for this thread and I must say that is the typical republican operating procedure. The claim to have the upper moral values but in reality they are a do as I say, not as I do crowd. Don't forget all of the examples of anti gay gays that are in their rank and file of members.

yup

[element1286]

Do you get it now Element1286? Or is it still to complicated for ya

Why so condescending?

[ryanXL977]

Fair enough. I am not here to defend Bush, but I just don't think labels get us anywhere.

correct also

[pavyracer]

The point is that War should always be an option of "last resort!" because it is the closest thing to hell-on-earth.

Barack Obama will use war as a "last resort"

The problem with "chicken hawks" like Pimike or even Bush/Cheney is that they resort to war as a "first resort!" Therein lies the problem. They didn't have any proof that Hussein had weapons of mass destruction. They cherry-picked totally unsubstantiated evidence to justify their invasion. That's not how to run foreign policy any time, anywhere.

But when your agenda is to energize the defense industry economy as well as to drive the price of oil into triple digits for the oil industry then war is the only option to achieve your long term goals.

[Mr KLC]

The point is that War should always be an option of "last resort!" because it is the closest thing to hell-on-earth.

Barack Obama will use war as a "last resort"

The problem with "chicken hawks" like Pimike or even Bush/Cheney is that they resort to war as a "first resort!" Therein lies the problem. They didn't have any proof that Hussein had weapons of mass destruction. They cherry-picked totally unsubstantiated evidence to justify their invasion. That's not how to run foreign policy any time, anywhere.

If I remember right, Democrats and Republicans voted to start the war after looking at the information that was provided by intelligence that the USA and other countries had in their possession.

[ryanXL977]

actually half the dems didnt vote for the war
people can say it over and over but half of them did not
and the half that did should be publicly exectued

[element1286]

But when your agenda is to energize the defense industry economy as well as to drive the price of oil into triple digits for the oil industry then war is the only option to achieve your long term goals.

Do you really believe that Pavy?

[pavyracer]

If I remember right, Democrats and Republicans voted to start the war after looking at the information that was provided by intelligence that the USA and other countries had in their possession.

Democrats voted for the war that was supposedtly "mission accomplished" three weeks after it started. Whatever happened after the "mission accomplished" was all Republicans fault and that's why they lost the house and senate in 2006

[ryanXL977]

i mean, he is right
its not hard to back up what he says, you just have to be willing to think outside of things you have learned
its seriously not hard to back that up
its not really a dem or republican thing, its a money thing
the money just seems to flow more to one party than the other
there have been plenty of filthy dems, but right now the gop is a wholly owned party by the defense and oil industries
why is it you think we invaded iraq exactly?

[element1286]

i mean, he is right
its not hard to back up what he says, you just have to be willing to think outside of things you have learned
its seriously not hard to back that up
its not really a dem or republican thing, its a money thing
the money just seems to flow more to one party than the other
there have been plenty of filthy dems, but right now the gop is a wholly owned party by the defense and oil industries
why is it you think we invaded iraq exactly?

WMD's

[pavyracer]

Do you really believe that Pavy?

Yes. Reagan created the "Soviet Union monster" for the defense industry. Does Star Wars ring a bell? Cheney created the Iraq War to justify 10 trillion and more of military spending.

[Mr KLC]

Yes. Reagan created the "Soviet Union monster" for the defense industry. Does Star Wars ring a bell? Cheney created the Iraq War to justify 10 trillion and more of military spending.

In 1979, before Reagan was elected, many of us were still scared of what the "Soviet Monster" could do to us.

[ryanXL977]

what wmds element
there were zero
iraq had nothing to do with 911
i mean come on, its all done now. why parrot the unproven crap

[RageWizard]

The reason for the war in Iraq is to ensure that there is a war in Iraq. Many companies friendly to the Bush administration have made Billions and don't forget the Carlieal group.( I know I spelled it wrong)

[element1286]

what wmds element
there were zero
iraq had nothing to do with 911
i mean come on, its all done now. why parrot the unproven crap

Bad information.

[JRS21386]

Yep white trash. McCain just lost a bunch of voters, what an idiot.

The VP has NEVER contributed more than .8 percent of any election to this day... I don't believe anybody will change their voting stance based on this personal issue.. i mean come on in the end its based on who holds the more popular priciples this nation needs..

I recall four years ago Kerry using Bush's alcoholic past to try and prove that he is not fit in the slightest to be president of this country... and i recall the republicans won that election...

Get over yourself.

[ryanXL977]

Bad information.

bad information? are you serious or kidding
we started a war and have stayed for 6 years bc of bad information? if its bad information why didnt we leave after the wmds werent there

come on dude, think a bit here, you are smart

[pavyracer]

In 1979, before Reagan was elected, many of us were still scared of what the "Soviet Monster" could do to us.

That's how the GOP works. Inducing fear to the public so they will vote for them like sheep.

[ryanXL977]

when did kerry use bush's alcohloism? please refresh our memory

[TeamPlayer]

sorry Element. I just thought it was obvious that the problem with chicken hawks is that they pursue an "aggressive" foreign policy meaning they are quick to rush to War. Unfortunately, the conversation got sidetracked into whether or not a person needs prior military experience.

I agree that we all overuse labels but that is the culture that we live in. Labels are an effective tool, just ask the Republican party. They've become masters of using labels.


Pavy,
motives regarding energizing the defense industry and driving the price of oil into triple digits is debatable. However, I tend to agree that the war was about OIL first and the Military industrial complex second. Third would be that Cheney knew he would be forever rewarded by his buddies at Halliburton for providing them with huge government contracts/money!

Because Americans were so emotional about 911 and thus susceptible to being deceived, Bush/Cheney took the opportunity to invade Iraq in an attempt to get the oil and insert a puppet government that would give American companies sweetheart deals. Unfortunately, they miscalculated and mismanaged the entire war

AND they sullied America's good name all around the world. We lost a lot of the moral highground we used to enjoy for defeating the Nazis and Communism

[Mr KLC]

what wmds element
there were zero
iraq had nothing to do with 911
i mean come on, its all done now. why parrot the unproven crap

At the time, it was believed they were there. What we had was a dictator that consistently did not abide by the sanctions that were brought against him by the UN. I mean, he did gas the Kurds, so it was definitely not out of the realm of possibility that he might of had them.