Until Lebron wins a ring, he is the most overrated player in history. Regular season means nothing, if he is so good he needs to prove it in the playoffs in crunch time. He did it up until the NBA finals last year but then disappeared again as he has done before when the pressure hits. His free throw shooting under pressure is a true sign of his lack of ability to handle pressure and I don't see anything changing this year. Wade will have to carry him when the pressure time comes again this year. If Lebron is so great he needs to prove it when it counts!
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There's ample reasons why Kobe led teams are just 2-11 SU against Lebron led teams in their last 13 matchups:
hehComment -
Ok. So the original post/title makes no sense.
The guy had a good 4 game stretch. Good job.
Mike Brown just left Kobe in last night to get him some garbage stats. Or he would of been left with a 14 point performance. What Mike Brown should of did was pull the starters a few minutes into the 4th. Give Kobe some much needed rest.Comment -
Are you for real? Seriously, is this a joke?
You pick the "if you were STARTING A FRANCHISE" question and are surprised that Kobe isn't on the list in his SIXTEENTH NBA season???? Are you a retard? Do you rub shit through your hair?
From your same survey of NBA GM's (keep in mind..Kobe is in his SIXTEENTH season)
Who is the best shooting guard in the NBA?
1. Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers -- 55.6%
2. Dwyane Wade, Miami -- 40.7%
3. Ray Allen, Boston -- 3.7%
Which player is the best at getting his own shot?
1. Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers -- 35.7%
2. Kevin Durant, Oklahoma City -- 21.4%
T3. LeBron James, Miami -- 14.3%
T3. Dwyane Wade, Miami -- 14.3%
Who is the toughest player in the NBA?
1. Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers -- 32.1%
2. Rajon Rondo, Boston -- 10.7%
T3. Tony Allen, Memphis -- 7.1%
T3. Reggie Evans, L.A. Clippers -- 7.1%
T3. Kevin Garnett, Boston -- 7.1%
Which player is the best leader?
1. Chris Paul, L.A. Clippers -- 25.0%
2. Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers -- 14.3%
T3. Kevin Durant, Oklahoma City -- 10.7%
T3. Steve Nash, Phoenix -- 10.7%
and last, but not least...........
Which player would you want taking a shot with the game on the line?
1. Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers -- 48.1% 
2. Kevin Durant, Oklahoma City -- 30.8%
Personally, I think LeBron is a great talent, but at this time and stage of his career.......has yet to prove he has the nards to get it done when it counts.Comment -
There's ample reasons why Kobe led teams are just 2-11 SU against Lebron led teams in their last 13 matchups:
heh
/threadComment -
Always love these, Robert Horrey has 5 rings too, he also won more games on winning shots in those play off runs than Kobe has. Rings mean shit especially when Kobe had the same coach for all 5, Shaq for 3 and needed Gasol for the other two. The year he didnt have quality players around him Lakers were horrible. This will be another one of those years, mostly because he wont let the guys who can still play run the team.
He may have 5 rings but he cost the franchise at least 3 maybe 4 more. If the guy was even half as good as people think he is he would have 8 or 9 rings.Comment -
Look, I don't think the fact that I am pointing out his flaws is hating on him. He has been in the NBA for 8 years or so and he has improved his game somewhat but he has not proven he is a big gamer to date. He has had some big games over the years, but to me he has proven that he is more of a quitter and choker when it counts. I am not sure why you have decided to defend him in threads that point out his inconsistencies but that is your choice.Comment -
LOL didn't this guy ZR just create a Kobe thread last week and called me out for calling Bryant the 2nd greatest or arguably the greatest player ever to play the game. Understand basketball. I already called Bryant's breakout season before the season started in MULTIPLE threads. This guy comes in 15 games in after he's doing well and calls him the best in the league.
what a bum
Cause Sleep is the Cousin of DeathComment -
His career is just beginning, he has been in the league 8 full years and going on 9. How is that just beginning?Comment -
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Whenever someone can only talk about the long forgotten past (and an overrated mind you, as titles are TEAM accomplishments and not individual ones), it just shows how terrified they are of the present and future.Comment -
Survey of NBA GM's (keep in mind..Kobe is in his SIXTEENTH season)
Who is the best shooting guard in the NBA?
1. Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers -- 55.6%
2. Dwyane Wade, Miami -- 40.7%
3. Ray Allen, Boston -- 3.7%
Which player is the best at getting his own shot?
1. Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers -- 35.7%
2. Kevin Durant, Oklahoma City -- 21.4%
T3. LeBron James, Miami -- 14.3%
T3. Dwyane Wade, Miami -- 14.3%
Who is the toughest player in the NBA?
1. Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers -- 32.1%
2. Rajon Rondo, Boston -- 10.7%
T3. Tony Allen, Memphis -- 7.1%
T3. Reggie Evans, L.A. Clippers -- 7.1%
T3. Kevin Garnett, Boston -- 7.1%
Which player is the best leader?
1. Chris Paul, L.A. Clippers -- 25.0%
2. Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers -- 14.3%
T3. Kevin Durant, Oklahoma City -- 10.7%
T3. Steve Nash, Phoenix -- 10.7%
and last, but not least...........
Which player would you want taking a shot with the game on the line?
1. Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers -- 48.1%
2. Kevin Durant, Oklahoma City -- 30.8%
Personally, I think LeBron is a great talent, but at this time and stage of his career.......has yet to prove he has the nards to get it done when it counts.Comment -
just proves how a massive media market like LA can brainwash the masses.
Moreover, GM census numbers have been wrong way too many times to mention in the past.
Give me numbers that show how much better Wade is when he plays at a high level proportionately to kobe, and it isn't even close. Dirk and Wade are #1 and #2 in the NBA at lifting their teams to wins over the past 9 seasons.. the percentages prove this. And Kobe is by the bottom half in comparison. No two players have been more directly responsible for lifting their teams to wins than Dirk and Wade over the years.. LeBron is 3rd
Head-to-Head it's not even close. Wade makes kobe look like a total chump when they've met and matched up on one another far more often than not. Totally embarrassing Kobe. And this is one of the best kept secrets in the NBA.
Not to mention that Wade (and his "teams") have GREATLY outperformed Kobe and his teams "ALL 4 TIMES" they've played with similar supporting casts vs the same opposition.. Wade has ALWAYS outperformed Kobe when they've had similar supporting casts playing against the EXACT same competition.
ALL FOUR TIMES that has happened in their careers, Wade >>>> Kobe.. and to be frank, the numbers aren't even that close within that 4-0 mark when you look into i deeply. I have ALL the data my friend, nice and handy which I have collected for years. If you want to get down to it and take this further later in this thread, I will make you and your idol kobe look extremely foolish and quite silly. And this is from every metris you want to look at.
Want to look at concise defensive synergy numbers? Wade has had seasons holding his matchups to under 30% shooting. Kobe has not done that ONCE.. not once. Wade has done it in TWO seasons in his career.
Moreover, Wade has been a far better playoff performer.. From any advanced metric you want to look at from PER, to win shares, and on and on. Not to mention, Wade has been a FAR FAR better performer on NBA's biggest stage.. the NBA Finals.. Wade had by far the best PER of any player in that series last year, and in 06 had the best PER of any player in NBA history, ahead of even MJ:
Kobe is a pathetic 41% career shooter in the Finals. Wade in just 2 Finals appearances had many astonishing moments that are very memorable. And if Wade didn't get injured when the Heat were up 3-games to 2 on the Pistons in the 2005 conference finals, Wade would have 3 Finals that overshadow ANYTHING Kobe has done on the NBA's biggest stage. All the greats had amazing and memorable moments in the finals. What were Kobe's memorable moments in the Finals ?? Not NEARLY enough for that amount of finals appearances, is the answer.. NOT EVEN CLOSE!!..because he's VASTLY overrated.
Kobe the stringbean is just a selfish shotjacker, a chucker, who was very fortunate to play in LA in that massive media market, and surrounded with talent that were massive mismatches for any other team in the western conference, breezing through the western playoffs.
My god, there is so much more data that I haven't even given yet that CLEARLY shows, without a shadow of a doubt,, just how much Wade trumps Kobe as an all-around player.
Put Wade in that LA market for all those years, and Kobe in miami with all those shitty teams miami had, and Wade would be 90+ % with GM votes.. Kobe may not even be on the list at all.
Kobe Bryant is the most overrated player in NBA history, and I am so glad we live in this internet and information age where people are noticing and starting to get it. Over the past couple years people from all around have been paying more attention and seeing how overrated he really is:
And in 10 years he won't even be considered a Top-15 player... as more and more people are "getting it" every year as time goes on.Comment -
Originally posted by PR9;13347343[U]just proves how a massive media market like LA can brainwash the masses.
Moreover, GM census numbers have been wrong way too many times to mention in the past.
Give me numbers that show how much better Wade is when he plays at a high level proportionately to kobe, and it isn't even close. Dirk and Wade are #1 and #2 in the NBA at lifting their teams to wins over the past 9 seasons.. the percentages prove this. And Kobe is by the bottom half in comparison. No two players have been more directly responsible for lifting their teams to wins than Dirk and Wade over the years.. LeBron is 3rd
Head-to-Head it's not even close. Wade makes kobe look like a total chump when they've met and matched up on one another far more often than not. Totally embarrassing Kobe. And this is one of the best kept secrets in the NBA.
Not to mention that Wade (and his "teams") have GREATLY outperformed Kobe and his teams "ALL 4 TIMES" they've played with similar supporting casts vs the same opposition.. Wade has ALWAYS outperformed Kobe when they've had similar supporting casts playing against the EXACT same competition.
ALL FOUR TIMES that has happened in their careers, Wade >>>> Kobe.. and to be frank, the numbers aren't even that close within that 4-0 mark when you look into i deeply. I have ALL the data my friend, nice and handy which I have collected for years. If you want to get down to it and take this further later in this thread, I will make you and your idol kobe look extremely foolish and quite silly. And this is from every metris you want to look at.
Want to look at concise defensive synergy numbers? Wade has had seasons holding his matchups to under 30% shooting. Kobe has not done that ONCE.. not once. Wade has done it in TWO seasons in his career.
Moreover, Wade has been a far better playoff performer.. From any advanced metric you want to look at from PER, to win shares, and on and on. Not to mention, Wade has been a FAR FAR better performer on NBA's biggest stage.. the NBA Finals.. Wade had by far the best PER of any player in that series last year, and in 06 had the best PER of any player in NBA history, ahead of even MJ:
Kobe is a pathetic 41% career shooter in the Finals. Wade in just 2 Finals appearances had many astonishing moments that are very memorable. And if Wade didn't get injured when the Heat were up 3-games to 2 on the Pistons in the 2005 conference finals, Wade would have 3 Finals that overshadow ANYTHING Kobe has done on the NBA's biggest stage. All the greats had amazing and memorable moments in the finals. What were Kobe's memorable moments in the Finals ?? Not NEARLY enough for that amount of finals appearances, is the answer.. NOT EVEN CLOSE!!..because he's VASTLY overrated.
Kobe the stringbean is just a selfish shotjacker, a chucker, who was very fortunate to play in LA in that massive media market, and surrounded with talent that were massive mismatches for any other team in the western conference, breezing through the western playoffs.
My god, there is so much more data that I haven't even given yet that CLEARLY shows, without a shadow of a doubt,, just how much Wade trumps Kobe as an all-around player.
Put Wade in that LA market for all those years, and Kobe in miami with all those shitty teams miami had, and Wade would be 90+ % with GM votes.. Kobe may not even be on the list at all.
Kobe Bryant is the most overrated player in NBA history, and I am so glad we live in this internet and information age where people are noticing and starting to get it. Over the past couple years people from all around have been paying more attention and seeing how overrated he really is:
And in 10 years he won't even be considered a Top-15 player... as more and more people are "getting it" every year as time goes on.[/U]
Please condense your useless rhetoric. Thanks.
P.S. Five Rings
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PR9 1k posts in 3 weeks this kid is actually convinced he knows something about basketball, sits here 18 hours a day. Unreal.
Anyway, Kobe was the best player at the time of this thread, he has cooled off considerably since. Definitely forcing but who is he supposed to pass too? Everyone else is struggling
On a side note, can anyone think of any reason why Howard would want to play for the lakers? Kobe won't create any shots for him, nobody besides Blake can shoot.Comment -
Of course, who in their right mind would take a 16 year vet to start a franchise off. You need younger guys obvioiusly, But right now..Are you for real? Seriously, is this a joke?
You pick the "if you were STARTING A FRANCHISE" question and are surprised that Kobe isn't on the list in his SIXTEENTH NBA season???? Are you a retard? Do you rub shit through your hair?
From your same survey of NBA GM's (keep in mind..Kobe is in his SIXTEENTH season)
Who is the best shooting guard in the NBA?
1. Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers -- 55.6%
2. Dwyane Wade, Miami -- 40.7%
3. Ray Allen, Boston -- 3.7%
Which player is the best at getting his own shot?
1. Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers -- 35.7%
2. Kevin Durant, Oklahoma City -- 21.4%
T3. LeBron James, Miami -- 14.3%
T3. Dwyane Wade, Miami -- 14.3%
Who is the toughest player in the NBA?
1. Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers -- 32.1%
2. Rajon Rondo, Boston -- 10.7%
T3. Tony Allen, Memphis -- 7.1%
T3. Reggie Evans, L.A. Clippers -- 7.1%
T3. Kevin Garnett, Boston -- 7.1%
Which player is the best leader?
1. Chris Paul, L.A. Clippers -- 25.0%
2. Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers -- 14.3%
T3. Kevin Durant, Oklahoma City -- 10.7%
T3. Steve Nash, Phoenix -- 10.7%
and last, but not least...........
Which player would you want taking a shot with the game on the line?
1. Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers -- 48.1%
2. Kevin Durant, Oklahoma City -- 30.8%
Personally, I think LeBron is a great talent, but at this time and stage of his career.......has yet to prove he has the nards to get it done when it counts.Comment -
I hate mike brown, btw. I'll never understand why they picked him, well I mean i understand in theory, but I think it's retarded.Ok. So the original post/title makes no sense.
The guy had a good 4 game stretch. Good job.
Mike Brown just left Kobe in last night to get him some garbage stats. Or he would of been left with a 14 point performance. What Mike Brown should of did was pull the starters a few minutes into the 4th. Give Kobe some much needed rest.Comment -
Kobe misses a shot that could have sent the game to overtime. Should have deferred to Fisher again
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Should we post lebrons 4th quarter numbers in the finals?
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Derek Fisher might be the worst starter in the NBA. How can LA not do something. Outside of Kobe, Bynum and Gasol, the team is a steaming pile of dung. Just not good enough as a team. Not even close. If Kobe went down, they'd be lucky to win 25% of games. They'd be one of the worst.Comment -
So just think....All LeBron has to do is win the championship the next three yrs retire for two then come back & win the next three championships. If he can pull this off he will have accomplished what Jordan did @ the same age. Basically leBron needs to win 6 championships in a row just to tie Jordan, the greatest player of all time. And you're honestly comparing the two
Good luck!!Comment -
you always appear when lakers lose or should i say when kobe loses, but when lebron loses you disappear faster than anyone else, look at the 2010 playoffs where lebron loses to the celtics, you need to disappear for months and need to create a new username just to save your face williams22
, it also happened last season when heat lost to the mavs
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I'm pretty sure Mike Brown didn't leave Kobe in "to get him some garbage stats"
I''m pretty sure he left him in to give his team the best chance to win the game
There isn't a coach in the league that pulls starters for good down 15 w/ nearly an entire quarter to play......NOT ONE.Comment -
I think what people are referring to is when LeBron plays the biggest & most important games of his career:
1) Game 6 vs Orlando '09. Cavs down 3-2. At the time this was LeBron's most important game of his career. He scores 16 1st Q points then inexplicably disappears over the final 3 Q's of the most important game of his career as the #1 overall seed Cavs season gets flushed down the toilet.
2) Game 5 vs Boston '10. Series tied 2-2 & Cavs desperately needing home court back to have a chance to win the series LeBron goes out in what was @ the time the most important game of his career & proceeds to quit on his team on the way to literally his worst game as a professional as the #1 overall seed Cavs season again gets flushed down the toilet.
3) Game #1 Finals vs Mavs. In the at the time most important game of LeBron's career he disappears in the 4th quarter
4) Game #2 Finals vs Mavs. In the at the time most important game of LeBron's career he disappears in the 4th quarter
5) Game #3 Finals vs Mavs. In the at the time most important game of LeBron's career he disappears in the 4th quarter
6) Game #4 Finals vs Mavs. In the at the time most important game of LeBron's career he disappears in the 4th quarter
7) Game #5 Finals vs Mavs. In the at the time most important game of LeBron's career he disappears in the 4th quarter
8) Game #6 Finals vs Mavs. In the at the time most important game of LeBron's career he disappears in the 4th quarter
The common denominator seems to be the bigger & more important the game is the more predictable the outcome becomes. If LeBron could consistently dominate in the most important games of his career he truely would be arguably the greatest player ever. Until he does so though he will be considered "overrated" It's pretty much as simple as that.Comment -
Noone will ever be Jordan, and I never said he would be... But he could and should very easily finish his career better then kobeSo just think....All LeBron has to do is win the championship the next three yrs retire for two then come back & win the next three championships. If he can pull this off he will have accomplished what Jordan did @ the same age. Basically leBron needs to win 6 championships in a row just to tie Jordan, the greatest player of all time. And you're honestly comparing the two
Good luck!!Comment -
He can put UP all the stats he wants. Unless he wins championships, plural btw, he will never be considered better than Kobe. And it doesn't matter how many championships he puts UP he will still never be considered better than Jordan.
More so in basketball than any other sport.......Championships define greatness!!!
At least we can agree that Jordan is the greatest ever.Comment -
Kobe missed a buzzer beater, but he isn't afraid to take them. That's why he's missed and made the most. Lechoke is 0 for his last 19, and when it's a big game he won't even have the courage to try. Lebron doesn't need a few championships to be in a discussion with kobe, he needs about 10 since he plays with Team USA.Comment -
You are.correct, he needs championships... He is only 27 and will have plenty of chances. Jordan is the best and kobe is not even close. If lebron gets 3 or 4, he wil pass kobe. He is already a better individual player then kobe ever was, now he just needs some rings to end any debate. If lebron can prove he can show up in the big spot, there really will no longer even be a.comparison. that is the only edge kobe had on him..Comment
