A question that is the key to winning at online casinos

[chilidog]

Yes, if you could somehow manage to show up at the right time more often than not and play just one hand each time you would win, useless, but true. Also true of a real deck you decide to make a play on.

Big difference between a real deck and a randomly generated deck every single time that you press the 'Deal' button. RNG has absolutely nothing to do with what time you decide to click the 'Deal' button.

[warriorfan707]

People are contradicting themselves here.

[chilidog]

Here's a little bit from wiki about generating the seed used to create the random numbers (in this case, your random numbers would be the cards that you are dealt). It has nothing to do with when you decide to play the game. The seed could be anything, and you'll never be able to find out what that seed is. By determining the seed, one could figure out which cards the casino is going to give you. And for that reason, you will never know what is used to determine the seed. And since the seed is generated on something that you could not replicate (since it would be done server-side), it's a lost cause.

***********************************

The earliest methods for generating random numbers — dice, coin flipping, roulette wheels — are still used today, mainly in games and gambling as they tend to be too slow for most applications in statistics and cryptography.

A physical random number generator can be based on an essentially random atomic or subatomic physical phenomenon whose unpredictability can be traced to the laws of quantum mechanics. Sources of entropy include radioactive decay, thermal noise, shot noise, avalanche noise in Zener diodes, clock drift, the timing of actual movements of a hard disk read/write head, and radio noise. However, physical phenomena and tools used to measure them generally feature asymmetries and systematic biases that make their outcomes not uniformly random. A randomness extractor, such as a cryptographic hash function, can be used to approach a uniform distribution of bits from a non-uniformly random source, though at a lower bit rate.

In 2010 a team at Bar-Ilan University in Israel was able to create a physical random bit generator at a 300 Gbit/s rate, making it the fastest ever.[2]

Various imaginative ways of collecting this entropic information have been devised. One technique is to run a hash function against a frame of a video stream from an unpredictable source. Lavarand used this technique with images of a number of lava lamps. HotBits measures radioactive decay with Geiger–Muller tubes,[3] while Random.org uses variations in the amplitude of atmospheric noise recorded with a normal radio.

[warriorfan707]

I dont think people are really understanding the question. Getting conflicting contradictory answers.

Its clear that noone knows.

Thee question is simple. If I log into 5dimes blackjack RIGHT NOW, would I get the same cards as if I log in in 2 hours?

If the answer is no, it is certainly possible to beat the casino as one could assume it is just a matter of timing.

Saying yes the cards would be different and yet that makes no difference makes absolutely no sense.

[UntilTheNDofTimE]

I dont think people are really understanding the question. Getting conflicting contradictory answers. Its clear that noone knows. Thee question is simple. If I log into 5dimes blackjack RIGHT NOW, would I get the same cards as if I log in in 2 hours? If the answer is no, it is certainly possible to beat the casino as one could assume it is just a matter of timing. Saying yes the cards would be different and yet that makes no difference makes absolutely no sense.

Matter of timing? No shit

As someone said earlier that's no different than a live casino. If you walk up to table 1 at 5:00pm the cards wont be the same as at 5:04. You can walk into a blackjack, you can walk into the dealer having a blackjack. Its all variance and a RNG replaces a shuffler or hand shuffle.

[warriorfan707]

Ok so in other words, the online casino can be beaten if you log in at the right time.

[Jontheman]

*Sigh* This could get into a very philosophical debate about predeterminism but that line of thought is going just a little over the OP's head.

Here's a clear answer for him.

The time you log on is irrelevant. It has no ability to predict what cards you will be dealt. They are not on a set rotation. The RNG is not linked to the clock in any way. You cannot make money this way.

That clear enough?

[Jontheman]

I will not feed the troll
I will not feed the troll
I will not feed the troll
I will not feed the troll
I will not feed the troll
I will not feed the troll

[SteveRyan]

I dont think people are really understanding the question. Getting conflicting contradictory answers.

Its clear that noone knows.

Thee question is simple. If I log into 5dimes blackjack RIGHT NOW, would I get the same cards as if I log in in 2 hours?

If the answer is no, it is certainly possible to beat the casino as one could assume it is just a matter of timing.

Saying yes the cards would be different and yet that makes no difference makes absolutely no sense.

I live in Las Vegas and my father is an expert on video poker analysis and random number generators.

There are two different type of RNG.

In video poker, the RNG will deliver an equal distribution of all cards over a large sample. The size of the sample is not known, but we can assume that it is in the millions to hundreds of millions.

This means that after the sample, an equal number of Ace/spades, King/ spades, Queen/ spades, etc has been dealt.

Then, the cycle starts over again. It will repeat the cycle, card for card, EXACTLY as it did in the last sample. At the end of the sample, it will start over again. The reason for this is because the RNG is actually an algorithm. It uses a "Seed number" to get started. After the end of the sample, the original seed number goes into the algorithm and starts over again. It has no choice; it must repeat itself.

With a slot machine, the RNG is different. It does NOT, by design, give an equal distribution of results over a sample of any length.

Regardless of what type of RNG the online casino is using for Blackjack, the odds of you seeing the same results when logging in at different times is impossible, because the number going into the algorithm will be different every time you log on. Your results will be different every time....randomly different.

If someone sits at a slot machine or video poker machine that you were just playing on and hits a jackpot, it does not mean that if you continued to play that you would have hit the same jackpot. The reason why is because the RNG is churning out cards and reel results at a rate of thousands (Or hundreds of thousands) per second. In order for you to hit the same jackpot, you would had to have hit the button at EXACTLY the same time as the person who took your place. This is basically impossible.

Here in Vegas, many years ago; there was a man who discovered that an electronic Keno game at one of the casinos was repeating the numbers EVERY DAY starting at a specific time in the morning. Basically, he had figured out when the seed number was going into the algorithm. He would just bet the same numbers sharply at that time. It did not take long for the casino to figure out what was going on. I believe it was IGT that was responsible for the program; the problem was resolved immediately.

This type of thing just does not happen anymore, even with online casinos.

[Professor1215]

No matter what you do, how you do it, what time you do it, when you do it, you are going to lose vs. the casino. Period.

How ever smart you think you are, someone out there is smarter than you and knows how to con you into betting your money. If that was not true, why would so many people try to lure you in?

No online casino's can be beaten over the long-run and only a professional can beat the real casino in the long run in only a couple of games.

Listen to what the smart money says, stick with sports or poker for any kind of chance of winning anything.

Why?

Because you can't rig sports nor can you rig a poker game. The outcomes of those events are a result of human effort, not computer algorithm's. Yes, both have been "rigged" before, but if you take into account all of the sports games and poker games played, less then .01% of them were rigged.

Concentrate your money on sports or poker or spend it elsewhere. I say this because I used to be the guy who thought he could sit down at an online casino and win big. NOT GOING TO HAPPEN

[SteveRyan]

No matter what you do, how you do it, what time you do it, when you do it, you are going to lose vs. the casino. Period.

That's actually almost true.

Believe it or not, you can actually come out ahead in video poker.

Here is what you need to do:

1. Study video poker via books or reliable online resources.

2. Through your studies, learn which games have the highest return percentage (At least 98%). The most common games that pros play is a version of Deuces Wild that they refer to as NSUD (Not So Ugly Deuces) and just a standard Jacks-or-Better game.

3. Learn how to play the game PERFECTLY so that you never make any errors. There are several software programs out there that will teach you how to play correctly. The most popular one is called "Bob Dancer Presents WinPoker."

4. When you find a machine that offers the game, it must also have a progressive Royal Flush jackpot.

5. Always play with a players card that offers cash back for your play.

6. Have a large enough bankroll so that you can continue to play over a long period no matter how much money you may win or lose during any given session.

IF you can follow these steps, it is a mathematical certainty that you will come out ahead. Even if you hit a Royal Flush and you still have not broken even, if you keep playing you will eventually win all of your money back and usually a more.

Video poker is the only casino game where you are guaranteed to come out ahead if you learn how to do it right.

[hutennis]

That's actually almost true.

Believe it or not, you can actually come out ahead in video poker.

Here is what you need to do:

1. Study video poker via books or reliable online resources.

2. Through your studies, learn which games have the highest return percentage (At least 98%). The most common games that pros play is a version of Deuces Wild that they refer to as NSUD (Not So Ugly Deuces) and just a standard Jacks-or-Better game.

3. Learn how to play the game PERFECTLY so that you never make any errors. There are several software programs out there that will teach you how to play correctly. The most popular one is called "Bob Dancer Presents WinPoker."

4. When you find a machine that offers the game, it must also have a progressive Royal Flush jackpot.

5. Always play with a players card that offers cash back for your play.

6. Have a large enough bankroll so that you can continue to play over a long period no matter how much money you may win or lose during any given session.

IF you can follow these steps, it is a mathematical certainty that you will come out ahead. Even if you hit a Royal Flush and you still have not broken even, if you keep playing you will eventually win all of your money back and usually a more.

Video poker is the only casino game where you are guaranteed to come out ahead if you learn how to do it right.

Video poker is not the only game.

You can also beat BJ by counting cards, but its not available online b/c deck is re shuffled before every deal, so counting is useless.

Yes VP can be beat but only with pay out tables where total pay out is higher than 100% aka +EV pay out table. Land casinos would have have one or two machines like that hidden around from time to time for marketing reasons but I have never ever seen anything like that online. If anyone knows about 100+% payout VP game online, I'd like to know where it is.

98% payout is not gonna win any money for you and no bonus will make you money either, since cash back is nothing more than PARTIAL rebate of your theoretical loss.
Obviously, its better to take advantage of any available bonuses but all bonus will do is just prolonging the bleeding.

When you say something about mathematical certainty and would want to be taken seriously you better come up with a prove.

[warriorfan707]

People still don't understand the point that I am trying to make.

[hutennis]

I think we do.

Every deal in online BJ game is independent event so it does not matter when you make a bet.
At any given point any given bet will carry the same negative expectation as any other bet made at any other point in time

[warriorfan707]

This is like trying to convey something to a brick wall.

Of course in the long run there is -EV, im not trying to dispute that.

What I am saying is if it truly random then the game could theoretically be beaten by hitting and running, one hand at a time etc.

Unless its rigged.

[MonkeyF0cker]

This is like trying to convey something to a brick wall.

You finally got something right.

[hutennis]

This is like trying to convey something to a brick wall.

Of course in the long run there is -EV, im not trying to dispute that.

What I am saying is if it truly random then the game could theoretically be beaten by hitting and running, one hand at a time etc.

Unless its rigged.

It is like trying to convey something to a brick wall, you are correct.

Please try hard to understand the following.

Random game cannot be beaten by hitting and running, one hand at the time or any other way.

Random game does not have, or know for that matter, what the clock or calendar is so it does not care whether you play one hand an leave (log out) and then come back (log in back) 10min (or 10 hours or 10 years) later to play another hand.

Random game, no matter what you do, will give you a fair chance of winning a new independent event every time and since you'd be charged commission on every try you will lose regardless of your personal play schedule.

"Hitting and running" (or logging in and out) 100 times a day is exactly the same as playing 100 hands in a row.

[warriorfan707]

Unbefukkinlievable

You still STILL dont understand what I am saying.

Just forget it. The people who have posted in this thread appear to be remarkably narrow minded.

Im not disputing the odds or random nature of the game. What I am merely saying is according some of the posts in this thread, the cards you are dealt will be different and are dependent upon the instant you log into the server.

If that is truly the case, then there are instances where this will be more favorable to the player. On a run of extreme variance, it is theoretically possible to then "log in at the right time" get dealt a BJ, and log out or whatever.

After all, the cards that you will get at 8:30 will be different than the cards you would get at 9:00.

But to be honest I am not 100% certain of this.

We need to know more about exactly how the RNG works.

[evo34]

What I am merely saying is according some of the posts in this thread, the cards you are dealt will be different and are dependent upon the instant you log into the server.

This is dead fuking wrong. No one has said this. No one with a >70 IQ would ever say this. Go back to playing nickel slots.

[warriorfan707]

This is dead fuking wrong. No one has said this. No one with a >70 IQ would ever say this. Go back to playing nickel slots.

1) Ivr never dropped a coin into a slot machine in my life and never will

2) You didn't even bother to read the thread, it was claimed by more than one individual.

3) You havent the slightest clue, so stop pretending to.

4) You are a jackass.

[hels]

Take a deck of cards and shuffle it. The deck you now hold is one of 80,658,175,170,943,878,571,660,636,856,4 03,766,975,289,505,440,883,277,824,000,0 00,000,000 possible combinations of those cards. There are more possible orders than there are atoms in our solar system.

OP, if you believe that online casinos operate with a 24 hour shuffle that is reused day in, day out I would advise you to open your mind.

[warriorfan707]

People if you are going to comment about this, at least read the damn thread first.

[UNCGQ]

1) No. Just no.

2) If you can't comprehend the relatively simple concepts (which were well explained I might add) in SteveRyan's lengthy RGN post, and apply them to the scenarios you're asking about, you are certainly not equipped to 'figure out the pattern to log in at just the right time to beat the game.

3) Step away from the interwebs.

[warriorfan707]

Jesus F'ing Christ you folks are beyond hopeless.

I know it is not possible to decipher a pattern, thats not what this post is about.

Show me where I said I am "trying to figure out a pattern to log in at the right time"

I know damn well the online casinos are probably impossible to beat in the long run.

This is a question about the random number generator and how it works.

[UNCGQ]

it is theoretically possible to then "log in at the right time" get dealt a BJ, and log out or whatever.

...

[vividjohn45]

guess i'm confused went to a local casino and won 46.50. i won about $23 in a online casino. today got real good bj. from what i can tell they are using their rng from poker.

they are max bet $50 in bj.

honesty bro. they are scared of a real rng. that is not rigged.

---------------------

ok when i was in vegas. iplayed onthe gamekings. blackjack. single deck. for the first 3-4 months at the casino i moved next to. i never had a losing day at blackjack.

but dumbass that i was i used a players card. and the techs and management realized they were losing money on the gameking to me.

so they changed theprograms on them. wher they defeated one of my systems.

so what i did then realize there are like 200 gamekings in this casino. so i would play one at $1or $2 ahand.and using another system would pop it for 2 or 3 bux. frontend. then go on to the next gameking doing this all day.

i just left vegas in october. my daughter died and i moved back to tulsa to help withthe grandchildren. wehave 3or casinos in tulsa.

i'm ok.

but when i wasbleaving i noticed the gamekngs programs where changing again. hell i saw the techs with the machines working on them.

and these gamekings would beat you at the front end. mid end and back end. they set them at unbeatable.

i already knew don't play those much.

but online and real casinos realize that pro gamblers and semipro gamblers do work off of frontend. so they put the WINS towards the backend. majority of times.

all this to be applied to electronic games or software.

---------------------------

so a practical approach is you have to have ways to sidestep the blocked frontend. and get to the middle.

this is a more advanced discusson but for sure you gotta have more then balckjack. electronica if you want to be a lifetimewinner.

* all this being said i have not played one minute in the sbr casino.in the last 2 months because they know me.
and rip me off. so i don't care for them at all.

funny sh.it. i play incasino games all day and won't touch sbr.

and sbr says its all good.

idiots.
lol/

[UNCGQ]

Step 3: Profit

[FourLengthsClear]

This is like trying to convey something to a brick wall.

Of course in the long run there is -EV, im not trying to dispute that.

What I am saying is if it truly random then the game could theoretically be beaten by hitting and running, one hand at a time etc.

Unless its rigged.

FFS. Assuming a fair deck, the odds of you beating online BJ are exactly the same as beating live blackjack (no card counting) in the long run.

As I told you earlier the probability of being ahead after 100,000 hands is 0.007% if you play in a typical game where the house edge is 1.2%. If you like those odds, knock yourself out.

Whether you play one hand at a time or sit down for two hours at a time has no bearing on this probability.

[evo34]

Jesus F'ing Christ you folks are beyond hopeless. I know it is not possible to decipher a pattern, thats not what this post is about. Show me where I said I am "trying to figure out a pattern to log in at the right time" I know damn well the online casinos are probably impossible to beat in the long run. This is a question about the random number generator and how it works.

How fukking hard is it to understand how a random number generator works? No one else is having any trouble figuring this out. 100% of the people in this abortion of a thread think you are a complete idiot. It's been explained to you in excruciating detail over and over. I can only assume you are trying to pad your post count. (It's sort of social. Demented and sad. But social...) Even a moderately dumb person would not be repeating the same vague thing over and over.

P.S. No one claimed anything about me not reading the thread. You haven;t even read your own fukking thread. Get this fecal matter out of the think tank.

[vividjohn45]

Jesus F'ing Christ you folks are beyond hopeless.

I know it is not possible to decipher a pattern, thats not what this post is about.

Show me where I said I am "trying to figure out a pattern to log in at the right time"

I know damn well the online casinos are probably impossible to beat in the long run.

This is a question about the random number generator and how it works.

no if the machine is programmed there mite be patterns to it. it isbestto familiarize yourself with the electronica.

i look for them in all electronica games i play in.

i.e is the slot set tite or loose. same with blackjack.

hell the el cortez downtown vegas advertises loose blackjack slots. paying back a higher % then competitors black jack slots.

DO NOT LISTENTO THE PEOPLE WHO SAY IT CAN:T BE SET OR PATTERNIZED

idiots.

[vividjohn45]

FFS. Assuming a fair deck, the odds of you beating online BJ are exactly the same as beating live blackjack (no card counting) in the long run.

As I told you earlier the probability of being ahead after 100,000 hands is 0.007% if you play in a typical game where the house edge is 1.2%. If you like those odds, knock yourself out.

Whether you play one hand at a time or sit down for two hours at a time has no bearing on this probability.

so what u are saying if i play 100000 hands i will be .000007 something.

yah. its what u are saying.

whatever.

go blow this smoke up someones ass. not mine.

[FourLengthsClear]

so what u are saying if i play 100000 hands i will be .000007 something.

yah. its what u are saying.

whatever.

go blow this smoke up someones ass. not mine.

What?

[vividjohn45]

That's actually almost true.

Believe it or not, you can actually come out ahead in video poker.

Here is what you need to do:

1. Study video poker via books or reliable online resources.

2. Through your studies, learn which games have the highest return percentage (At least 98%). The most common games that pros play is a version of Deuces Wild that they refer to as NSUD (Not So Ugly Deuces) and just a standard Jacks-or-Better game.

3. Learn how to play the game PERFECTLY so that you never make any errors. There are several software programs out there that will teach you how to play correctly. The most popular one is called "Bob Dancer Presents WinPoker."

4. When you find a machine that offers the game, it must also have a progressive Royal Flush jackpot.

5. Always play with a players card that offers cash back for your play.

6. Have a large enough bankroll so that you can continue to play over a long period no matter how much money you may win or lose during any given session.

IF you can follow these steps, it is a mathematical certainty that you will come out ahead. Even if you hit a Royal Flush and you still have not broken even, if you keep playing you will eventually win all of your money back and usually a more.

Video poker is the only casino game where you are guaranteed to come out ahead if you learn how to do it right.

vid poker is not the only game.

more bs.

it depends more on the set of the casino. on their electornica. you know loose slot casinos (110%) u will outbeat video poker.

do casinos set their slotsat 130%. sure they do . in high traffic areas. at a casino i went theslots rightnextto the slot club where as loose as hell. all wilds.

same slot out on the floor chew up ur $50 bill like it was corn on the cob.
no matterwhat the 101% payback on joker poker.

[warriorfan707]

How fukking hard is it to understand how a random number generator works? No one else is having any trouble figuring this out. 100% of the people in this abortion of a thread think you are a complete idiot. It's been explained to you in excruciating detail over and over. I can only assume you are trying to pad your post count. (It's sort of social. Demented and sad. But social...) Even a moderately dumb person would not be repeating the same vague thing over and over.

P.S. No one claimed anything about me not reading the thread. You haven;t even read your own fukking thread. Get this fecal matter out of the think tank.

You are an absolute fukking moron.

Congrats.

[vividjohn45]

What?

what i'm saying is u can theorize about what the set is in casino odds but a skilled person gets around these things.

real life is more then just theory. and casinos are not #'s on a chalkboard.