Changes to the SBR point system: Effective Feb 15

[pavyracer]

I think anyone who maintains a 50k points plus balance is taking a huge risk of never getting his points cashed out whether he is doing fraudulent activity or not.

[pavyracer]

pavy, I thought you were rooting for trixtrix.

I still do. But Justin has made it clear it is going to be extremely difficult for him from now on since the book reacts faster to mispricings and has made exploiting weaknesses virtually impossible for him.

[onizuka]

Oh Yess, go away Loan Shark



This time, even I'm not yet become a Pro, I agree with you John

[yisman]

I still do. But Justin has made it clear it is going to be extremely difficult for him from now on since the book reacts faster to mispricings and has made exploiting weaknesses virtually impossible for him.

dunno, the post I quoted made it seem like you want him to lose.

[easywinner]

Non-pros already can't play trivia and have to buy into poker if they want to play. That has nothing to do with this thread.

Cool man i just found this out thanks to the dude with the cash on fire avatar.

non-pros can still use the sportsbook.

You seem to have misunderstood what's being talked about here.

I might have with all of the arguing that was going on earlier in the thread.

Also, the post count thing was about making an exception to the new rule against non-pros transferring more than two points a day, not to prevent new users from being able to use the forum or preventing new users from becoming a pro.

Ok i get it then. Sounds fine to me. I thought someone had said to strip non pros of the right to play poker or enter contests or go into the sbr casino/sportsbook. I was just not wanting any "common rights" on the forum stripped from me simply because i wasn't a "sbr pro" yet, i could care less about the points, don't get me wrong it's cool and a nice bonus but I'm not being pissy about it like others were.

Anyone can become a pro, as far as I know.

And you want to shut off transfers for everyone? Talk about completely unnecessary.

I thought point transfers were the cause of all of this fraud going on and thus the restrictions, people with "ghost" accounts transferring to themselves right?? Nobody has answered my question yet asked earlier. Why would anyone need to do a point transfer in the first place and why do people loan other people money or points on here? Do you guys seriously trust each other enough to loan someone a few hundred points or dollars? If so i need a loan for 1k. I'm not arguing with you either, i agree with and respect your points and you actually pointed out a couple of things about this forum i wasn't sure of, so thanks. Take care.

Reply above.

[yisman]

^ Points are SBR currency. Therefore, some posters may reward good posts with points, or make good natured bets with one another.

Why would people need to take out a loan?

Suppose you bet in the SBR sportsbook and you see a bet you really like but you're low on points.

Or maybe SBR has a special in the store (12 points for money in a new account or something) and it's expiring and you're a bit short.

Or maybe you need 20 points to play in that day's poker tournament and you only have three.

There are a number of reasons.

Why would people trust one another? While there are a lot of degenerate thieves here, there are also some good trustworthy posters.

[BigDaddy]

btw, i think i made some headway into the grumperz situation. grumperz could not have made his 50k stack via transfers since he only transferred 3k to his ghost acct. what likely happpened was

1.) grumperz won 30k legitimately in sbr book
2.) grumperz discovered additional glitch which allows him to transfer pts at no additional costs to him
3.) grumperz transfers 3k to his ghost acct
4.) sbr discovers this and confiscates his entire balance
5.) grumperz felt unfair as he won the balance legitimately in sbr book before attempting to use the transfer glitch or something to that effect.

so how close am i?

i don't think we will ever know the truth.

how would you rule though if what you said turned out to be true

is it fair to wipe him clean of everything?

[Kaabee]

i take loans because i lack the patience to save

[Jrod124]

i take loans because i lack the patience to save

+1 sadly

[easywinner]

^ Points are SBR currency. Therefore, some posters may reward good posts with points, or make good natured bets with one another. Why would people need to take out a loan? Suppose you bet in the SBR sportsbook and you see a bet you really like but you're low on points. Or maybe SBR has a special in the store (12 points for money in a new account or something) and it's expiring and you're a bit short. Or maybe you need 20 points to play in that day's poker tournament and you only have three. There are a number of reasons. Why would people trust one another? While there are a lot of degenerate thieves here, there are also some good trustworthy posters.

Fair enough. I won't pass any further questions or judgment on this topic, i see now. There is a whole other level of sports betting/gambling that i wasn't aware of. Cool whatever works for everyone. Is there any recourse in going after someone that shafted someone else on a loan? Like do they get stripped of their points and booted off the forum or anything?

[yisman]

no

that consumed a lot of space in this thread. people want it to happen but sbr hasn't been doing anything about it.

[MadTiger]

So-how-much-time-do-we-have-until-these-changes-take-place?

February 15, 2011.

[boscokid]

i just wanted to post in this epic thread

wasn't planning on using the points anyway

[kiln]

Is there any recourse in going after someone that shafted someone else on a loan? Like do they get stripped of their points and booted off the forum or anything?

That's a great idea! Someone should look into that!

What does it tell us when the intuition of a noob (no offense!) is that mods would not allow cheats, scammers, and stiffs free rein? It's common sense that the mods take some sort of action. It's totally counter-intuitive (and really frustrating) that they don't already.

I like to loan to help people out. It's nice to make an extra point or two but that clearly isn't the point of loaning. I've lost hundreds of points to stiffs because I'm willing to try to help people out. Unless your ThadB, there's no profit to be made in it. And for the love of Mercy, look at how hard he has to work for it!

If SBR is against point loaning, then don't let people loan points. You'll get no complaint from me. But the tacit approval of loaning seems to me to mean a vested interest in keeping it clean. The vesting of that interest is displayed everytime a pro does (or doesn't) deposit through an SBR link.

[Ace_of_Spades]

Merry frigging Christmas

Thats kinda rude.

[brumbies]

Amazing.. another price increase. Is that the fourth time already? Wow.

[MBENZ]

As I said I am not opposed to looking at this from all angles especially factoring in the drop off in abuse we should see when the Feb 15 rules go into effect. Its possibly not easy to just tax forum bookies. Some things that sound good in theory can be cumbersome, difficult or too labor intensive to implement. But yes, we do not want to penalize much of the activity you mentioned so we are open to a better solution.

John,it's kind of hard to read between the lines here,but are you saying these special line threads that some of us run are frowned upon by mgt.?I've never received a PM saying to stop or seen anything that says don't do it.Could you clarify this for me one way or the other?

[aceking]

Amazing.. another price increase. Is that the fourth time already? Wow.

you can thank some people for abusing the system .

[SBR_John]

John,it's kind of hard to read between the lines here,but are you saying these special line threads that some of us run are frowned upon by mgt.?I've never received a PM saying to stop or seen anything that says don't do it.Could you clarify this for me one way or the other?

No, not frowned on at all. Our only concern on the special lines is that those offering the line not accept more action than they can pay and pay as soon as the event is over.

The only read between the lines is forum bookies who competed with the SBR Sportsbook with low juice had no expenses. This gave them an unfair advantage that we had to address. The 1% transfer tax leveled the field.

As far as the question on loans; From day 1 we have made it clear that being a lender here carries unusual business risks. Some of the characteristics of that risk is the site will not help you collect loans. We have better things to do than to be bill collectors in black market lending. If we were going to do that we would simply become the lender. Anyway' use interest rates high enough to overcome all the risks associated with this type of lending.

[chachi]

No one that I know of has asked any of the existing admins to be bill collectors unless I've missed something, in fact a few have volunteered to fulfill the duty as a public service.

Also, given your stated support of the practice, using the phrase 'black market lending' strikes me as a very poor choice of wording.

Anyway, I've said my piece and made my opinions on the whole loan situation pretty clear, so I'll give it a rest ...

[MBENZ]

No, not frowned on at all. Our only concern on the special lines is that those offering the line not accept more action than they can pay and pay as soon as the event is over.

The only read between the lines is forum bookies who competed with the SBR Sportsbook with low juice had no expenses. This gave them an unfair advantage that we had to address. The 1% transfer tax leveled the field.

As far as the question on loans; From day 1 we have made it clear that being a lender here carries unusual business risks. Some of the characteristics of that risk is the site will not help you collect loans. We have better things to do than to be bill collectors in black market lending. If we were going to do that we would simply become the lender. Anyway' use interest rates high enough to overcome all the risks associated with this type of lending.

Thanks for the response,only do it once in a while and always put a cap on it so there's no chance the participants don't get paid.I don't want to be a forum bookie,I'd be broke.

[MTek]

All I know is I need additional points....therefore I post

[Hoja Verdes]

One thing is clear: this whole points system thing, from the day it was rolled out, has been a thing of beauty to watch catch fire and then evolve. I've been around for years, so what's funny is that I didn't even realize that points existed until I'd accumulated about 200 of them, then one day was like "wtf are these things, guess i better click on that stickied thread." That was probably 6 months ago. Since then it's been fun watching how they've shaped the forum.

[Tommy_de1st]

I think anyone who maintains a 50k points plus balance is taking a huge risk of never getting his points cashed out whether he is doing fraudulent activity or not.

Paver, so what you saying is that SBR can't cash the points one has? Do you know any case like that?

[trixtrix]

i don't think we will ever know the truth.

how would you rule though if what you said turned out to be true

is it fair to wipe him clean of everything?

no, unfair to take back any pts/money that are earned legitimately. however, i'm still unsure if my hypothesis is correct. john seem to be saying he can multi-transfer between sbr wallet and sbr book instead p2p transfers.

[trixtrix]

I still do. But Justin has made it clear it is going to be extremely difficult for him from now on since the book reacts faster to mispricings and has made exploiting weaknesses virtually impossible for him.

great pavy, i'm so glad my betting profile is as transprant to you as j7's book. you demonstrate a real core knowledge on both subjects.

i know i really should not let facts get in the way of a good story, but as i and sbr have stated numerious times, i won majority of my funds on nfl teasers which are still there at the sbr book and all the regular books. it has not been been virtually impossible for me to bet.

it has been virtually impossible for you to actually read j7's book and understand what he's talking about though.

[trixtrix]

you can thank some people for abusing the system .

this is true, posters that beg for loans to spent 4k+ on personal merchandise: mousepads, camera, clothes etc yet providing no value to the board, should be banned from receiving more sbr pts. those posters are obv just gleaming the system by posting once a day and then spend their pts as fast they get their hand on them by begging/cheating etc any means necessary.

the posters that advocates that book steal balances as well are especially scumbaggish and imo should NEVER be allowed to collect prizes reserved for legitimate players.

i propose a poster review category to make sure posters are not trolls and the value of their postings are consistent w/ SBR's core values in order to receive sbr pts.

furthermore, i propose that any pts collected have to wait 30 days before spent to reduce possible fraud.

[Richkas]

Like I said. No big deal that you cant transfer more than 2 points a day. All you have to do is bet both sides of a game to transfer points.

[trixtrix]

It should be easy to single out when two nonpros keep on betting opposite side of the same game.

[Richkas]

It should be easy to single out when two nonpros keep on betting opposite side of the same game.

Apparently a lot harder than one thinks, thus the rule changes.

[Richkas]

Best way to do it would be to make people go pro if they want points. If they care none about points let them stay a non pro. There were no points when I joined. They could get rid of the points all together as far as I care. I loved this place long before points

[pavyracer]

Paver, so what you saying is that SBR can't cash the points one has? Do you know any case like that?

I'm just saying that the points you get here are not FDIC insured like savings in the bank. SBR might decide tomorrow (hypothetically) to shelve the program and you will be left with 50,000 points in the hands worth nothing.

[trixtrix]

I'm just saying that the points you get here are not FDIC insured like savings in the bank. SBR might decide tomorrow (hypothetically) to shelve the program and you will be left with 50,000 points in the hands worth nothing.

and i have gone on record to state that i'm okay if that happens, there is obv a difference of emphasis we put on MY pts. (ie: you care about them much more than i do, i don't lose sleep over them)

I think your life would be a lot easier if you stopped stressing out so much over my pts as well. happy holidays.

[MBENZ]

I'm just saying that the points you get here are not FDIC insured like savings in the bank. SBR might decide tomorrow (hypothetically) to shelve the program and you will be left with 50,000 points in the hands worth nothing.

That would create the longest,funniest thread in the history of SBR even trumping the Taco/Squarebear follies.

[aceking]

this is true, posters that beg for loans to spent 4k+ on personal merchandise: mousepads, camera, clothes etc yet providing no value to the board, should be banned from receiving more sbr pts. those posters are obv just gleaming the system by posting once a day and then spend their pts as fast they get their hand on them by begging/cheating etc any means necessary.

the posters that advocates that book steal balances as well are especially scumbaggish and imo should NEVER be allowed to collect prizes reserved for legitimate players.

i propose a poster review category to make sure posters are not trolls and the value of their postings are consistent w/ SBR's core values in order to receive sbr pts.

furthermore, i propose that any pts collected have to wait 30 days before spent to reduce possible fraud.

I propose all thieves get booted , like grumperz and He who shall not be named, lol .