Death Penalty - cant understand why you are still doing it

[Jule]

I could pull the switch with one hand while eating a ham sandwitch with the other because I know in my heart I'm making the world a better place.

These people are like rabid animals...you don't rehab them...you don't lock them up...you eradicate the infestation!

Doc

You know, Doc, you sound so harsh that I cannot buy it. I think you could not do it if you really had to. People are not animals. They might commit horrific acts but they are still human beings. OK, what about that old argument...what if...what if you don't know for sure they did it? Would you still do it then? Just "to make sure" to get rid of the "infestation"? Hm. This is easier said than done.

[acarmelo1]

What if it was your mother or father

[Jule]

What if it was your mother or father

What if my mother/father was the criminal or the victim?

[acarmelo1]

what if your mother was the criminal and you need to turn the switch, will you be able to do it?

[chilidog]

Alright, so let's say that you have a son/daughter. You go to pick them up from school, and they're not there. You get a little annoyed, because they should be waiting. You wait a little bit, then you go to the office to locate your child, and the school knows nothing. Your annoyance turns to panic. You call your husband/wife, to see if they know where your child is. Nothing. After waiting 30 more minutes, you rush home. Nothing. You call all of your kid's friend's parents, and they know nothing. You call the police, and find that the police won't do anything just yet. The afternoon hours give way to the night. Still no word from your child. The next morning, you call the police again, and an Amber alert is issued. Your child's photo is seen all over the news. 3 days later, the police show up at your front door, notifying you that they caught the person that kidnapped your child, and they give you the horrible news that your child was tortured, raped, then brutally murdered.

The case goes to trial. The jury finds the defendant guilty. At the sentencing hearing, (and I know this wouldn't really happen - it's a hypothetical), the judge turns to you, and asks you if you would like to seek the death penalty.

The entire courtroom is focused on you. Does this evil person that kidnapped, tortured, raped, then killed your daughter/son, deserve to live, or should they die?

The issue becomes different when it becomes personal. I believe that the death penalty holds it's place in our society.

[Doc JS]

You know, Doc, you sound so harsh that I cannot buy it. I think you could not do it if you really had to. People are not animals. They might commit horrific acts but they are still human beings. OK, what about that old argument...what if...what if you don't know for sure they did it? Would you still do it then? Just "to make sure" to get rid of the "infestation"? Hm. This is easier said than done.

Look...I know I'm not going to change your opinion about the death penalty...

AND I CAN PROMISE YOU THAT YOU'RE NOT GOING TO CHANGE MY OPINION ON THE DEATH PENALTY...

When you stop acting like a human (Bundy, Gacy, Manson), you lose the rights/benefits of being treated like a human. When you act like an animal. You get dealth with like an animal. And we put down rabid animals...

Doc

[Doc JS]

What if my mother/father was the criminal or the victim?

Father dead. Mother 80 and not likely to wind up in that situation...

But I can promise you if they'd killed my mother or father, I could damn sure pull the switch...

Doc

[chilidog]

But I can promise you if they'd killed my mother or father, I could damn sure pull the switch...

I would prefer to be locked in a room with them like in the movie 'hostel', with my assortment of tools, and I could choose their method of death. Nobody viewing. Just me and the person that ****ed up.

[Jule]

Look...I know I'm not going to change your opinion about the death penalty...

AND I CAN PROMISE YOU THAT YOU'RE NOT GOING TO CHANGE MY OPINION ON THE DEATH PENALTY...

When you stop acting like a human (Bundy, Gacy, Manson), you lose the rights/benefits of being treated like a human. When you act like an animal. You get dealth with like an animal. And we put down rabid animals...

Doc

I like how you emphasize by writing a sentence in bold. I know, this is a never-ending debate. Still, I enjoyed reading your replies. On that note, I will muse on what you have said even though you know as well as I do we will never look into the same direction here. Have a great evening, Doc!

[Jule]

Alright, so let's say that you have a son/daughter. You go to pick them up from school, and they're not there. You get a little annoyed, because they should be waiting. You wait a little bit, then you go to the office to locate your child, and the school knows nothing. Your annoyance turns to panic. You call your husband/wife, to see if they know where your child is. Nothing. After waiting 30 more minutes, you rush home. Nothing. You call all of your kid's friend's parents, and they know nothing. You call the police, and find that the police won't do anything just yet. The afternoon hours give way to the night. Still no word from your child. The next morning, you call the police again, and an Amber alert is issued. Your child's photo is seen all over the news. 3 days later, the police show up at your front door, notifying you that they caught the person that kidnapped your child, and they give you the horrible news that your child was tortured, raped, then brutally murdered.

The case goes to trial. The jury finds the defendant guilty. At the sentencing hearing, (and I know this wouldn't really happen - it's a hypothetical), the judge turns to you, and asks you if you would like to seek the death penalty.

The entire courtroom is focused on you. Does this evil person that kidnapped, tortured, raped, then killed your daughter/son, deserve to live, or should they die?

The issue becomes different when it becomes personal. I believe that the death penalty holds it's place in our society.

(Whispering) It should never become a personal issue. Then, people stop thinking and acting rationally and different standards are being established.

[Doc JS]

I like how you emphasize by writing a sentence in bold. I know, this is a never-ending debate. Still, I enjoyed reading your replies. On that note, I will muse on what you have said even though you know as well as I do we will never look into the same direction here. Have a great evening, Doc!

Doc

[pavyracer]

If there was no death penalty how will they test and maintain the killing machines? PETA would be all over them if they tested on animals.

[chilidog]

It's nearly always a personal issue. I'm not familiar with the legal system in other countries besides the states, but our fate is judged by a jury 'of our peers'. I would say that the vast majority of juries have no legal experience, unless you count watching CSI or Law & Order. Therefore, a verdict can always be swayed by a juror's personal beliefs. If a rapist is on trial, and you have a woman on the jury whose sister has been raped before, it becomes personal. Her decision will instantly be biased because of that.

[Jule]

It's nearly always a personal issue. I'm not familiar with the legal system in other countries besides the states, but our fate is judged by a jury 'of our peers'. I would say that the vast majority of juries have no legal experience, unless you count watching CSI or Law & Order. Therefore, a verdict can always be swayed by a juror's personal beliefs. If a rapist is on trial, and you have a woman on the jury whose sister has been raped before, it becomes personal. Her decision will instantly be biased because of that.

Allow me to rephrase, Cilidog (why am i getting hungry when I write your name? )...it becomes too personal when we decide in order to retaliate. The question you raise if interesting, there is (most of the time) no jury where I live and I have to say I like it that way. The thought of having to "convince" a jury, even if I know I did not do anything wrong, troubles me a bit.
Punishing because of feelings of retaliation is wrong...do you agree with me here?
(time for dinner now...sadly I will have Italian and no typical baseball snack like a hot-dog).

[chilidog]

Allow me to rephrase, Cilidog (why am i getting hungry when I write your name? )...it becomes too personal when we decide in order to retaliate. The question you raise if interesting, there is (most of the time) no jury where I live and I have to say I like it that way. The thought of having to "convince" a jury, even if I know I did not do anything wrong, troubles me a bit.
Punishing because of feelings of retaliation is wrong...do you agree with me here?
(time for dinner now...sadly I will have Italian and no typical baseball snack like a hot-dog).

In order to retaliate, that must mean that somebody did something first.

I do like the idea of a jury. For instance, let's say that my own daughter was god-forbid, kidnapped/raped, and I had the chance to (illegally) kill the person that did it - I would in a heartbeat. Yes, legally, I am guilty of murder. I have broken a law. But when a jury comes into play, you only need one person on the jury who is parent, or can relate to being a parent (that pretty much qualifies everybody). Juries go on emotion. They're not trained in law school.

As for your statement of "Punishing because of feelings of retaliation is wrong...do you agree with me here?" I do not agree with you. Punishment because of retaliation is just logical. When the World Trade Center was attacked on 9/11/01, did the states just sit there? No, they retaliated. When Japan hit Pearl Harbor back in 1941, did we not fight back? If somebody just come walks up and hits you, are you just going to stand there? If somebody takes your wallet, and you notice it happening, are you going to let them get away with it, or chase them down and hopefully cause an action to get police involved so that the person is arrested and punished?

I refer back to my original post. If it were your son or daughter was kidnapped, tortured, raped, then killed, would you want that person to live or die?

[shari91]

Alright, so let's say that you have a son/daughter. You go to pick them up from school, and they're not there. You get a little annoyed, because they should be waiting. You wait a little bit, then you go to the office to locate your child, and the school knows nothing. Your annoyance turns to panic. You call your husband/wife, to see if they know where your child is. Nothing. After waiting 30 more minutes, you rush home. Nothing. You call all of your kid's friend's parents, and they know nothing. You call the police, and find that the police won't do anything just yet. The afternoon hours give way to the night. Still no word from your child. The next morning, you call the police again, and an Amber alert is issued. Your child's photo is seen all over the news. 3 days later, the police show up at your front door, notifying you that they caught the person that kidnapped your child, and they give you the horrible news that your child was tortured, raped, then brutally murdered. The case goes to trial. The jury finds the defendant guilty. At the sentencing hearing, (and I know this wouldn't really happen - it's a hypothetical), the judge turns to you, and asks you if you would like to seek the death penalty. The entire courtroom is focused on you. Does this evil person that kidnapped, tortured, raped, then killed your daughter/son, deserve to live, or should they die? The issue becomes different when it becomes personal. I believe that the death penalty holds it's place in our society.

Not only have you outlined my worst nightmare come true but you've touched on something I've been thinking a lot about since first coming into this thread. I really don't understand how parents of murdered children can forgive their killers. I honestly don't, and I'm actually starting to cry thinking about if I were in their place. How do you do that? Why would you even want to let someone off the hook in your mind for robbing your child of their life? Especially when your child is literally still a child. I'd rather live with the blind hatred inside of me and take my chances of turning into a bitter, old woman than forgive someone who purposefully took the life of my child. I'm just not programmed like that sweet, innocent, give everyone a chance Shari anymore and I'm not even a little bit ashamed to admit it. And for the record, my answer would obviously be that they should die. They didn't give my son the chance to have a life, they don't deserve the chance to maybe rehabilitate.

[chilidog]

I completely agree, Shari. As a parent as well, there is no way in this world that I could ever forgive somebody for taking the life of my baby girl. Ever. I would want them dead. To go even further, I would want to be the person that got to push the button, or pull the trigger, or flip the switch, that ended that person's life. And I would want it as inhumane as possible; they should not be afforded the luxury of a pain-free death, free from suffereing. They should suffer. Some might argue that simply putting that person behind bars for the rest of their life is suffering enough for them, but I disagree. People adjust to their surroundings. A person sentenced to life in prison would adapt, and would resume their life in the fashion they have been condemned to. While I am left to visiting my daughter's grave and crying. No thank you.

The type of person that could kill an innocent child, holds no place in our society. There was a design flaw in them, somewhere along the way.

[Bostongambler]

Rapists, murderers, child abusers, terrorists = fry em.

Add touts as well

[chilidog]

My friend Butch told me that the last prison he was in would get like $190 dollars a day from the state for every day he was in jail. If people think that is cheaper than the death penalty than they are wrong.

Heh, about 10 years ago, I was driving in Texas, and I was pulled over for speeding. After the cop took my license and went back to his car, and came back and told me that I had a warrant for my arrest for an unpaid speeding ticket. This was at around 10pm. I got arrested, and he let me follow him back to the station. I was processed, and placed in the holding cell until morning. It was an interesting night, being around the drunks.

Anyway, the next morning, around 10am, this judge walks in, and I get called into a room. He asks me if I have the money on me to pay the speeding ticket. I tell him no, but I do in the ATM, if an officer would just drive me to one (the same thing that I told the arresting officer the night before). The judge agrees to this, and an officer drives me to an ATM about 5 minutes down the road. I withdraw the money, go back to the jail, and pay the money. When I am released, along with my belongings, they give me a check for $78. I asked them what it was for, and they told me that the state of Texas pays them a certain amount of money per inmate per day, and that's what was owed to me, because of my time served.

12 hours, and I got paid $78. I don't know why they didn't just knock off $78 from the fines for the speeding ticket, but I never cashed the check. I still have it, just because I think it's funny, and I enjoy telling the story of how stupid the legal system can be at times

[Doug]

Getting paid for being in jail is insane.

[DwightShrute]

I see both sides of the capital punishment argument but my vote is kill em for certain crimes.

The guy that killed all those people in Fort Hood for example. He dies if I had the power to decide!

[chilidog]

I see both sides of the capital punishment argument but my vote is kill em for certain crimes.

The guy that killed all those people in Fort Hood for example. He dies if I had the power to decide!

Agreed - I'm from Ft Hood, and that one hit way too close to home.

[poochiecollins]

nor am I a fan of telling a woman what to do with her body

How does a person not have rights when they are inside the body of another? I never understood this "her body" argument. It's common sense to me that someone gives up some freedom when they let themself/their woman to get pregant.

[DrStale]

How does a person not have rights when they are inside the body of another? I never understood this "her body" argument. It's common sense to me that someone gives up some freedom when they let themself/their woman to get pregant.

Because if the thing is 2 weeks old, then it certainly isn't a person yet.

[empty cookie jar]

Getting paid for being in jail is insane.

there was the case of this poor bastard who spent something like 30 years behind bars and turned out he was innocent.....think he collected somewhere in the neighborhood of a high 6 figures when they let him out......something in the law that paid him for being wrongfully convicted.....

hell, i might volunteer to spend a year behind bars if they supplied me with a nice library and protection from the ass rapers if i could net 50 grand when i got released

[empty cookie jar]

Because if the thing is 2 weeks old, then it certainly isn't a person yet.

i'm against abortion, but understand the argument about when it should be considered living....after a few months and that baby has a heartbeat, no way.....

don't give me this crap that it can't survive outside the mother's womb without medical intervention.....might as well let anyone who is in an auto wreck and can't survive without assistance go ahead and die......

[joe blow]

We should just go back to hanging people in the public square. That's cheap as hell.

Also if it were up to me anyone caught having sex with a very young child (DNA evidence) would have their genitals removed on PPV, and the money would go to the family of the violated child. My guess is there would be less sex offenders.

I agree 100%

[DrStale]

i'm against abortion, but understand the argument about when it should be considered living....after a few months and that baby has a heartbeat, no way.....

don't give me this crap that it can't survive outside the mother's womb without medical intervention.....might as well let anyone who is in an auto wreck and can't survive without assistance go ahead and die......

Yeah, like I said earlier I am in no way "pro-abortion" and the destroying of a fetus that is many months along definitely bothers me, but if it's within a matter of days or weeks after conception then it isn't as big a deal to me. In an ideal world there wouldn't be a need for abortion, but we live where we live and the bottom line is that some people simply should not be having children, for their own sakes as well as the child.

[poochiecollins]

Yeah, like I said earlier I am in no way "pro-abortion" and the destroying of a fetus that is many months along definitely bothers me, but if it's within a matter of days or weeks after conception then it isn't as big a deal to me. In an ideal world there wouldn't be a need for abortion, but we live where we live and the bottom line is that some people simply should not be having children, for their own sakes as well as the child.

Yes, the line should be drawn somewhere on abortion. I would do it where the fetus is believed to process pain. According to my research on the Internets, there's good evidence that this happens ~50 days in. I think this is plenty of time for a cut-off. Addressing the people we don't want having kids is more complicated. I would disallow anyone who can't prove a certain financial sustenance from having children. I would beef up adoption support so that the typical minor in the adoption system will be comfortable. This second idea makes my next one more plausable: more frequent removals of minors from bad parents.

[Doug]

there was the case of this poor bastard who spent something like 30 years behind bars and turned out he was innocent.....think he collected somewhere in the neighborhood of a high 6 figures when they let him out......something in the law that paid him for being wrongfully convicted.....

hell, i might volunteer to spend a year behind bars if they supplied me with a nice library and protection from the ass rapers if i could net 50 grand when i got released

A wrongly convicted person getting paid is fine but that wasn't what was described.

[Snowball]

anti-death penalty here.