I think UFC is the NEW Nascar

[The HOFF]

I don't think MMA can ever approach the Boxing numbers. First of all High-School wrestling is not popular. UFC and MMA in general just doesn't bring in the Hispanic draw. The only country that it does well in is Brazil. I can promise you in this country where Mexican's are becoming the majority BOXING will always be king.
I love the clash of races and intense feelings about it that boxing brings. mexican vs. PR fighters - White vs. Black they are light side stories that make boxing what it is. Italian vs. Irish.
You can't create that in MMA. There are too many IOWA corn fed wrestlers. I don't enjoy watching greco-roman wrestling. Has to be the most boring thing in the world.
UFC = TOO WHITE. TOO Metalica. The phuckkin clothes they wear are ridicolous. It's just not tapping into the Hip Hop world enough.

To be a success in the UNITED STATES you need to be more Hip-Hop and more hispanic. MMA has not done that.

This post is just ignorant.

What is your basis for high school wrestling not being popular? I know plenty of places where wrestling is huge.

What is your basis for saying the UFC doesn't bring in Hispanics? Did you know they are now making a Spanish broadcast available starting with UFC 111?

You don't need racism to create great fights. The UFC is far from an all white Greco-Roman wrestling team as you put it. Two champs are Brazilian, one is French Canadian, and one is Hawaiian. The UFC is a melting pot of fighters.

Hip Hop culture is garbage. The NBA is failing because of it.

[Preston09]

I agree

[JuicedUp]

When was NASCAR on top?

UFC>Boxing

[Pride>UFC]

lol at boxing fans pretending they're still relevant...run along little fella, go watch Ali highlights...

[BurtRapp]

This is just my opinion. Your screen name is pride-UFC would I expect a different opinion? Relevant? Come on buddy. WE all know that MMA can't reach certain demographics. You have brain-washed 14-28 year old white corn field kids I will give you that. I don't watch ALI highlights. I watch quality current fights.
Whoever your best is? I still don't know who that is. Pierre vs whoever. put that against a Mayweather - whoever fight and we will see who outdraws who.
Boxing draws from the past 20 years: Tyson - Hopkins - Roy Jones - DeLaHoya - mayweather - Pac-man - Just to name a few.
I will put those numbers against anyone you want.
UFC doesn't have cross-over appeal. It has it's audience.

[playa420]

This post is just ignorant.

What is your basis for high school wrestling not being popular? I know plenty of places where wrestling is huge.

What is your basis for saying the UFC doesn't bring in Hispanics? Did you know they are now making a Spanish broadcast available starting with UFC 111?

You don't need racism to create great fights. The UFC is far from an all white Greco-Roman wrestling team as you put it. Two champs are Brazilian, one is French Canadian, and one is Hawaiian. The UFC is a melting pot of fighters.

Hip Hop culture is garbage. The NBA is failing because of it.

I agree with everything thing you said except this."hip hop culture is garbage. the nba is failing because of it" now thats some ignorant shit. Why you hatting on hip hop and the nba. Hip hop culture has influenced alot, including the NBA which is doing just fine. How the **** do You figure the nba is failing? The NHL is a failing sport dude.

[Thor4140]

ufc had two bad cards in a row (mostly due to injuries)and now guys like this think everyone is jumping ship. MMA is here for good.

[bruceBRUCEbruce]

I agree with everything thing you said except this."hip hop culture is garbage. the nba is failing because of it" now thats some ignorant shit. Why you hatting on hip hop and the nba. Hip hop culture has influenced alot, including the NBA which is doing just fine. How the **** do You figure the nba is failing? The NHL is a failing sport dude.

the NBA is failing. check the headlines (to the tune of $400 million)

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ap-all-star-stern&prov=ap&type=lgns

I imagine the league won't be able to operate on the level on which it is if they continue to lose that kind of money year in and year out...

it is due in part to the culture surrounding the league, which is influenced by hip-hop.

and the NHL team outdraws their NBA counterpart in many cities. just at a quick glance, NY, DC, Philly; outdraw, outdraw, outdraw.

[BurtRapp]

3 Cities out of 30. You can't be making a case for NHL when you just admitted that they only win in three cities and New York I would say is even.

[bruceBRUCEbruce]

3 Cities out of 30. You can't be making a case for NHL when you just admitted that they only win in three cities and New York I would say is even.

this is a stupid argument because both leagues suck. and there's less than 15 cities with teams from both sports

but the NHL is as competitive, at the gate (where it matters) with the NBA in:
NYC
Philly
DC
Toronto
Chicago
Detroit
Minneapolis
Denver

at least half, and the NHL dominates the NBA in some of those markets. Philly and DC, for example. now go back to being fags together

[BurtRapp]

NHL doesn't do any numbers on TV. The don't outdraw any arenas other than maybe the two you mentioned. the salaries don't compare. The TV revenue doesn't compare. The coverage doesn't compare.

NHL is trash. No one cares about it get over it. You couldn't pay me to watch an NHL game unless it was sudden death overtime 7th game of the cup and the BlackHawks were involved and I had a dime on the game. Only scenario in the world.

NBA is so much more entertaining. So much more athletic. So many better personalities. I wouldn't know an NHL player if they were in the same pizza joint as me. I can promise you I would know an NBA player.

[Tree Rollins]

So the ufc puts on a dozen or more hugely successful ppv's a year, as well as having very highly rated free events on cable and a wildly successful reality show. Boxing, which is lucky to produce a couple successful ppvs a year, and in each one, people are only buying for 1 fight. and that fight is usually a letdown.
At this point, the mma product is so far superior that it's ridiculous. And as mma grows in popularity all the great talent will go to mma instead of boxing. Boxing will continue to slowly die.

Unfortunately, the guy who made this thread has no idea what he's talking about.

[BurtRapp]

Oh I beg to differ. A reality show that is highly rated? I don't know one person that watches it. It comes on a second class network. law and order re-runs out draw it I can Lock that up. Over saturating the market with too many PPV's will be the ultimate killer in UFC. Who can afford to pay for all those wack fights. Frank Pinzione vs. Jim millerski. Sorry never heard of you and won't pay 40-60.00 to see you. When boxing puts on a PPV you know who is fighting and there is a generous lead into the fight. HBO has never had a show called frank Bigsley - Mike wallison 24/7. If you would like to compare ratings between 24/7 and Ultimate fighter I would love to do so.

Your trying to tell me UFC PPV's aren't let downs please!!!!!!!!! I have seen main events where the guys are so out of shape it is sick. Who is the big 6'5 guy he looks like he should be working at Dunking Donuts his name escapes me because he is like a C-List celebrity just like all UFC figters.

[The HOFF]

I agree with everything thing you said except this."hip hop culture is garbage. the nba is failing because of it" now thats some ignorant shit. Why you hatting on hip hop and the nba. Hip hop culture has influenced alot, including the NBA which is doing just fine. How the **** do You figure the nba is failing? The NHL is a failing sport dude.

I'll rephrase that a little. I don't have a problem with hip hop or some other aspects. The violence and drug culture associated with hip hop is garbage.

[hoopster42]

UFC supporters always get so defensive. listen, the pacquiao-clottey fight and the mayweather-mosley fight will both get better PPV numbers than ANY UFC event this whole yr. just watch.

[hoopster42]

the NBA rules worldwide, no need to bring it into the discussion. even when the NBA is losing revenue it still brings in WAY more than UFC

[JuicedUp]

UFC supporters always get so defensive. listen, the pacquiao-clottey fight and the mayweather-mosley fight will both get better PPV numbers than ANY UFC event this whole yr. just watch.

This argument holds no water. Of course boxing PPV's will get more buys. They only do 1 or 2 per year. Come back to me when they do 12 in a year. Then you can make an accurate comparison.

[hoopster42]

This argument holds no water. Of course boxing PPV's will get more buys. They only do 1 or 2 per year. Come back to me when they do 12 in a year. Then you can make an accurate comparison.

incorrect. boxing does like 5 or 6 a yr, at least

[Tree Rollins]

incorrect. boxing does like 5 or 6 a yr, at least

Yeah, they actually do more then that, but no one would ever know.

[JuicedUp]

incorrect. boxing does like 5 or 6 a yr, at least

yea give me the numbers of the ones that don't include gayweather or pacman.

[JohnGalt2341]

yea give me the numbers of the ones that don't include gayweather or pacman.

[BurtRapp]

So throw out the numbers to the 2 BIGGEST fighters in the world??????????

[JuicedUp]

So throw out the numbers to the 2 BIGGEST fighters in the world??????????

no just give me the numbers of the ppv buys other than these guys. These two represent at most 2 events per year. We are waiting...

[hoopster42]

no just give me the numbers of the ppv buys other than these guys. These two represent at most 2 events per year. We are waiting...

pacquiao, mayweather, hopkins-taylor, pavlik-vs a lot of guys, tarver, mosley-vargas, have all done big big PPV numbers the last 4-5 yrs

[JohnGalt2341]

Oh I beg to differ. A reality show that is highly rated? I don't know one person that watches it. It comes on a second class network. law and order re-runs out draw it I can Lock that up. Over saturating the market with too many PPV's will be the ultimate killer in UFC. Who can afford to pay for all those wack fights. Frank Pinzione vs. Jim millerski. Sorry never heard of you and won't pay 40-60.00 to see you. When boxing puts on a PPV you know who is fighting and there is a generous lead into the fight. HBO has never had a show called frank Bigsley - Mike wallison 24/7. If you would like to compare ratings between 24/7 and Ultimate fighter I would love to do so. Your trying to tell me UFC PPV's aren't let downs please!!!!!!!!! I have seen main events where the guys are so out of shape it is sick. Who is the big 6'5 guy he looks like he should be working at Dunking Donuts his name escapes me because he is like a C-List celebrity just like all UFC figters.

Dude, I'm trying hear your side of the argument the best I can but you are really digging yourself in a hole here. What Main Event are you talking about where the guy was out of shape? If you can't name a name don't even make the comment. Also, who is the 6'5" guy that looks like he should be working at Dunkin' Donuts? I could make comments like that about boxers all day if I wanted to. If you can't name a name isn't not worth mentioning. This whole UFC vs Boxing argument is going nowhere. I have an idea, why don't we add up the total PPV numbers of the UFC vs ALL of Boxing in 2009. I don't care what single event had the biggest numbers. I want the grand total! Boxing loses! No contest! Start living in reality. Boxing used to be great. Now it sucks. MMA has more events and 10 times more exciting fights. Keep living in the past if you want. Boxing is nearly dead.

[JuicedUp]

pacquiao, mayweather, hopkins-taylor, pavlik-vs a lot of guys, tarver, mosley-vargas, have all done big big PPV numbers the last 4-5 yrs

in the last 4-5 years??? You named 6 guys other than gayweather and pacman that are considered "relevant" in your sport in the past 4-5 years! Case closed.

[Bigmikesm]

If these are the only fighters that you are familiar with, then you are simply not a fan of the sport. I am fairly certain casual fans of the sport can name many additional fighters including GSP, Penn, Anderson Silva, Machida, atleast the current UFC title holders.



The UFC's last event was in Sydney, Australia and drew about 18K fans. The UFC's April PPV is in Abu Dahbi. Big MMA shows in Japan still push 20K fans, I believe the NYE show hit almost 40K, but I could be mistaken.
Of the UFC titleholders, only two of the five are Americans and Penn is from Hawaii. I do not think diversity is an issue.

Yes, boxing is bigger with the hispanic population. But, that does not make MMA a fad.



I could be wrong here, but I would think Nascar, with prime slots on Network television, is a bigger draw than Boxing and a would not call Nascar diverse.



The NFL is the most popular sport in this country by a long shot, and I do not see them attempting to be more hip hop or more hispanic. If anything, the NBA, which is struggling compared to past decades, is trying to shed the hip hop image. With the majority of the country, the hip hop image is associated with ignorant trash.

As for high school wrestling, it is very poular in many places. Where i grew up in New Jersey, our wrestling matches would attract thousands of people and sell out large gymnasiums.

You say the clothes "they" wear are ridicolous, I am not sure if you are talking about the fans or the fighters. But if you are talking about the fighters, nothing compares to a boxers entrance attire.




Not sure what you mean by "slower." If you are referring to intelligence, I was unaware the South Side of Chicago was known for their intellectuals. Anyway, last time I checked, the majority of UFC events are held in Las Vegas, California and New Jersey. I have no idea about the popularityof MMA in the midwest, but I know they are very successful when they come to the northeast.

I was a casual boxing fan throughout my youth and into college. However, I have been completely consumed by MMA since early 06. I fight the contrasting fighting styles fasinating. The beauty of MMA too me is the fact that you know so many of the up and coming fighters. I felt like you would buy a PPV boxing event strictly for the main event, if you were extremely lucky, you would know one guy on the undercard and he would usually be fighting a can. Maybe this was doue to the fact that I was not a big enough fan. But on MMA cards, you typically know 15-20 of the fighters well.

Hell, the UFC has PPV's were fighters which wer in the main event - co main event slot within the past year, are 4, 5 or 6 fights deep on the card. You get to see so many top level fights on an MMA card. Fighters arnt pampered the same way.

People call boxing the sweet science. In my opinion, BJJ is the sweet science. Boxing is not fighting, it is boxing. They shouldnt call it fight night, it is a match. In a fight you can hold, wrestle, implement measures to stop the opponent from hitting you.

I will also address the fact that people think MMA is too barbaric. In fact it is Boxing that is barbaric. Two guys stand in front of each other and punch each other, without being able to use all their available (reasonable) self defense resources. If they get hurt, the ref gives them 10 seconds to recover, just enough time so they can go on taking more trauma to the head. Then the round ends in a shorter 3 minutes, giving the half concussed person more time to recover and take more head trauma.

Is this really a science? More people have died due to boxing sustained injuries than people care to count anymore. There a virtually no deaths associated with MMA.

Anyway, i went off subject here. But figure I would address more of the boxing/mma debate.

IMO more and more wrestlers are going to see MMA as their professional outlet and you will continue to see more college educated, intelligent athletes in the sport. Boxing will continue to be a popular outlet for inner city and less fortunate youths and will continue to maintain a presense in the country. However, I believe the MMA fanbase is much younger and will continue to grow. Just because the UFC peaked with a few unusually high PPV events over the past year, does not mean that it is a fad.

You had to be captain of the debate team in High School?

[hoopster42]

half the time, UFC is dudes grappling w/each other on the canvas and it's very boring, gimme boxing any day of the wk over a UFC match,
boxing is way more aesthetically pleasing to watch

[Yi]

UFC has room to grow as it becomes more global. Right now it seems to be dominated by fighters who have wrestling background; however, this can change as sooner or later someone will come along and figure out a strategy to defeat the top wrestlers.

I think one of the biggest proponent of UFC is in the fairness in the judged fights. Most often I agree 100% with the decision of the judges on who won the fight.

[hoopster42]

former boxer james toney signs multi-fight deal with UFC.......a FORMER boxer because he could no longer get it done in the ring so now he moves to the octagon

[Ian]

post deleted

[terpkeg]

former boxer james toney signs multi-fight deal with UFC.......a FORMER boxer because he could no longer get it done in the ring so now he moves to the octagon

"The 41-year-old Toney's (72-6 Boxing, 0-0 MMA) most recent fight was this past September when he defeated Matthew Greer by TKO in a boxing match. Prior to that, he defeated Fres Oquendo for the vacant NABO and IBA heavyweight belts."

http://mmajunkie.com/news/18156/41-year-old-boxing-champ-james-toney-signs-multi-fight-agreement-with-ufc.mma

I don't think saying he could "no longer get it done in the ring" is accurate.

Ironically, the day after I found this thread, I was driving to work and heard poll results done by ESPN. It was of people who are general sports fans and asked. what sports are you an "avid" fan of? The NFL was first with 30% of people saying they were an avid fan. Followed by college basketball at 25%, MLB was at 20%, NBA 15% and MMA was 14%, Hockey 7%.

They did not even mention boxing? I will try to find the results, because maybe the host of the show just choose not to mention some relevant Sports.

[terpkeg]

half the time, UFC is dudes grappling w/each other on the canvas and it's very boring, gimme boxing any day of the wk over a UFC match,
boxing is way more aesthetically pleasing to watch

It is completely fine that you find grappling boring. That is why you are not a fan of MMA. But, that has nothing to do with MMA being a fad. Many people like grappling. I find BBJ to be the best part of an MMA fight. To one their own.

[JohnGalt2341]

former boxer james toney signs multi-fight deal with UFC.......a FORMER boxer because he could no longer get it done in the ring so now he moves to the octagon

I'd like to see Toney fight Kimbo. I think they could bring in pretty big numbers even though it would be 2 of the worst Heavyweights in the UFC fighting each other. As bad as Kimbo's ground game is I think he would submit Toney. Make it happen Dana!

[Cappy]

Pay-per-view sucks, if they can make it happen on TV in some other way, it will work. PPV could kill it though, but that's just stubbornness, not having anything to do with the sport. Because MMA is the shit.