Avoid Bank Wires at all costs

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  • louis
    SBR Wise Guy
    • 09-23-06
    • 763

    #36
    USD doesn't necessarily go through the U.S.

    It is just not true that all USD wires, checks, are going to go through the U.S.A.

    The USD is an international currency, and banks all over the world offer USD accounts.

    If two banks have USD accounts they can settle with each other using their country's central bank. They absolutely do not have to go through the U.S.
    Comment
    • bigloser
      SBR Wise Guy
      • 07-19-06
      • 787

      #37
      Originally posted by louis
      The best thing to do is get a USD account in Canada. These banks will use the Canadian banking system to settle up, unless you are sending or cashing checks from U.S. banks.
      That is what Neteller did.
      It may work if your bank and recipients bank is the same as the bank will just complete an accounting entry. Wouldnt risk anything else tough.
      Comment
      • bigloser
        SBR Wise Guy
        • 07-19-06
        • 787

        #38
        Royal Bank of Canadas US$ accounts are held in the US

        Are you a Canadian Snowbird, expat, executive or business owner moving to or living in the U.S.? Simplify your financial life and save money with cross-border banking advice and solutions from RBC Bank.


        Same applies with CIBC.

        Would assume the same for the others but havent checked.

        When you open a $US account with Canadian banks you are opening an account in the US
        Comment
        • JoshW
          SBR MVP
          • 08-10-05
          • 3431

          #39
          Neteller can't pay players in USD anymore as best I can tell. You can still have a USD account, but good luck finding a way to withdrawal.

          This is pretty scary situation. It is absurd that someone in the UK is having this issue. Just think of how likely it is to happen to someone getting a withdrawal in the US.
          Comment
          • increasedodds
            SBR Wise Guy
            • 01-20-06
            • 819

            #40
            The time has come to not use USD.

            Open or change your neteller and bank accounts to UK, Euro, or Can $. Fund your books through neteller. It sucks paying the 1.9% or so, but with 10-25% bonuses, it is not too bad. Sure beats getting things confiscated.

            If you are operating in non US currency from a non US bank and neteller, you should have no problem.

            -Sean
            Comment
            • louis
              SBR Wise Guy
              • 09-23-06
              • 763

              #41
              USD accounts in Canada

              You have to look at the routing numbers on your checking account. Canadian and US routing numbers are different.

              If you want to open up a USD account in Canada, with Canadian routing numbers, then the account is NOT held in the U.S.

              I'm sure you can do this if you want, because I have received checks in USD from Canadian Banks using Canadian routing numbers.
              Comment
              • Scorpion
                SBR Hall of Famer
                • 09-04-05
                • 7797

                #42
                Originally posted by increasedodds
                The time has come to not use USD.

                Open or change your neteller and bank accounts to UK, Euro, or Can $. Fund your books through neteller. It sucks paying the 1.9% or so, but with 10-25% bonuses, it is not too bad. Sure beats getting things confiscated.

                If you are operating in non US currency from a non US bank and neteller, you should have no problem.

                -Sean
                tHE PROBLEM IS MANY BOOKS OFFER ACCOUNTs only in usd such as 5 dimes, youwager,....
                Comment
                • Scorpion
                  SBR Hall of Famer
                  • 09-04-05
                  • 7797

                  #43
                  Originally posted by louis
                  It is just not true that all USD wires, checks, are going to go through the U.S.A.

                  The USD is an international currency, and banks all over the world offer USD accounts.

                  If two banks have USD accounts they can settle with each other using their country's central bank. They absolutely do not have to go through the U.S.
                  I thought all the ban wires in USD go through Fed Reserve
                  Comment
                  • durito
                    SBR Posting Legend
                    • 07-03-06
                    • 13173

                    #44
                    Originally posted by Scorpion
                    I thought all the ban wires in USD go through Fed Reserve
                    Only over a certain amount. I don't remember how high it is, but its pretty high.
                    Comment
                    • Starion
                      SBR High Roller
                      • 01-12-07
                      • 149

                      #45
                      This scenerio was pretty predictable if you think about it. Much like the backbone of the "war on drugs" is government seizures. The US Govt LOVES to seize money from anybody they can and it is nearly impossible to get it back. The burden is on you to prove it wasn't related to any illegal activity.

                      I orginally thought the law would be more of an excuse to go after the "big fish" if they wanted to........but really didn't expect much to be done. However, if they are confiscating funds like it appears they are, that is a huge enforcement incentive.

                      Now, there is always the law of unintended consequences. The US Dollar has been weakening steadily for a while and will continue to do so as long as this stuff goes on. Foreigners will start to avoid US currency like the plague. If the world at some point finally decides they don't want to deal with the US Dollar anymore, it will spell disaster for the US economy.
                      Comment
                      • Halifax
                        SBR Wise Guy
                        • 08-10-05
                        • 553

                        #46
                        Originally posted by bigloser
                        Royal Bank of Canadas US$ accounts are held in the US

                        Are you a Canadian Snowbird, expat, executive or business owner moving to or living in the U.S.? Simplify your financial life and save money with cross-border banking advice and solutions from RBC Bank.


                        Same applies with CIBC.

                        Would assume the same for the others but havent checked.

                        When you open a $US account with Canadian banks you are opening an account in the US
                        Wrong on all counts, Mr. Loser.

                        While a Canadian can certainly open an account at RBC Centura (I have FWIW), it is a separate entity from Royal Bank ... if your account is with RBC Centura, it is in the United States .. if your account is with Royal Bank, it is in Canada (even if denominated in US$).

                        RBC Centura is a subsidiary of Royal Bank, and as such, online banking transfers can be made between RBC Centura and Royal Bank, but they are not the same bank. If you have a US$ denominated account with Royal Bank, the account is in Canada.
                        Comment
                        • Halifax
                          SBR Wise Guy
                          • 08-10-05
                          • 553

                          #47
                          Originally posted by louis
                          It is just not true that all USD wires, checks, are going to go through the U.S.A.

                          The USD is an international currency, and banks all over the world offer USD accounts.

                          If two banks have USD accounts they can settle with each other using their country's central bank. They absolutely do not have to go through the U.S.
                          I think Louis' post is more or less correct.

                          _______________________________________

                          Big Loser posted earlier in the thread that "The issue is that it is a $US account and the US controls the currency."

                          I'm fairly certain this statement is incorrect. As a rule, the U.S. does not control the flow of U.S. dollars that occur outside of its borders. As long as the money doesn't flow into the United States, the U.S. does not have any authority over its movement.

                          Regarding the bank wire in question ... technically, the bank wire didn't go through the United States because the US "controls" all U.S. currency. The most likely reason that the bank wire went through the United States is because the Sending bank probably was using a Correspondent Bank located in the United States (probably NYC).

                          So, techically the U.S. does not "control" all U.S. funds all over the world ... but practically speaking, most of the US$ transfers between UK banks and Caribbean/offshore banks probably go through a Correspondent Bank in New York City ... and once the money gets into the United States, then the government can step in like they did.

                          Still very surprised that they did that, seeing as neither the Sender nor the Receiver was domiciled in the United States.
                          Comment
                          • Halifax
                            SBR Wise Guy
                            • 08-10-05
                            • 553

                            #48
                            Originally posted by bigloser
                            HSBC advise me that all $US transactions will go through the US. That this is the same for all banks. $US stay in the US, everything at banks outside US in $US are "just accounting entries".
                            HSBC guy is talking through his ass, for the most part.

                            While there may be some truth to this at the Central Bank level, as far as the average Joe Schmuck is concerned ... his US$ denominated account at a branch of the Royal Bank of Scotland in Glasgow, is in the United Kingdom ... his US$ denominated account at a branch of the Bank of Nova Scotia in Edmonton, is in Canada ... his US$ denominated account at a branch of Credit Lyonnais in Paris, is in France.

                            The Joe Schmucks of the world ... the Joe Schumucks who have US$ denominated bank accounts ... their funds are NOT physically in the United States, nor are they under U.S. control.
                            Comment
                            • bigloser
                              SBR Wise Guy
                              • 07-19-06
                              • 787

                              #49
                              Originally posted by Halifax
                              Wrong on all counts, Mr. Loser.

                              While a Canadian can certainly open an account at RBC Centura (I have FWIW), it is a separate entity from Royal Bank ... if your account is with RBC Centura, it is in the United States .. if your account is with Royal Bank, it is in Canada (even if denominated in US$).

                              RBC Centura is a subsidiary of Royal Bank, and as such, online banking transfers can be made between RBC Centura and Royal Bank, but they are not the same bank. If you have a US$ denominated account with Royal Bank, the account is in Canada.
                              RBC dont have $US check accounts you have to use Centura. The only thing wrong with my statement is that I didnt , my omly error, if you can call it such, is that I didnt specify that Centura was a subsidiary.
                              Comment
                              • bigloser
                                SBR Wise Guy
                                • 07-19-06
                                • 787

                                #50
                                Originally posted by Halifax
                                HSBC guy is talking through his ass, for the most part.

                                While there may be some truth to this at the Central Bank level, as far as the average Joe Schmuck is concerned ... his US$ denominated account at a branch of the Royal Bank of Scotland in Glasgow, is in the United Kingdom ... his US$ denominated account at a branch of the Bank of Nova Scotia in Edmonton, is in Canada ... his US$ denominated account at a branch of Credit Lyonnais in Paris, is in France.

                                The Joe Schmucks of the world ... the Joe Schumucks who have US$ denominated bank accounts ... their funds are NOT physically in the United States, nor are they under U.S. control.
                                Didnt say that the accounts whilst outside the US were under control of US, just that when transfers occur they become so.

                                HSBC guy always talks through his ass
                                Comment
                                • NeedProtection
                                  SBR High Roller
                                  • 02-25-07
                                  • 113

                                  #51
                                  I think there is a much, much larger issue here that everyone is ignoring.

                                  It sounds like whichever book Bigloser sent money too is under investigation from the DOJ. Do you want money at a book under investigation by the DOJ?

                                  Bigloser, this is terrible, terrible and I am sorry it happened to you. I hope you can be made whole. Can you let us know which book it is? This is very, very important IMO.

                                  Thanks and best of luck. I say sue the bastards.

                                  Also, I think any bank overseas, even if they don't have a US counterpart (like RBC, etc) still uses an intermediary US bank to wire US funds. I think the answer is to open IBC, then foreign bank account in Euros, and send via SWIFT/bankwire to destination. A PIA, but worth it for big players.
                                  Comment
                                  • NeedProtection
                                    SBR High Roller
                                    • 02-25-07
                                    • 113

                                    #52
                                    Originally posted by increasedodds
                                    JP Morgan Chase blocked a bank wire to me as well, but returned the funds to the sender. They then sent it again with a different intermediary with no problem.


                                    Sean
                                    This isn't a block, this is a conficastion in an apparent criminal investigation of offshore book.
                                    Comment
                                    • NeedProtection
                                      SBR High Roller
                                      • 02-25-07
                                      • 113

                                      #53
                                      Bigloser, which book was it?

                                      Am I the only person that finds this a major concern?
                                      Comment
                                      • increasedodds
                                        SBR Wise Guy
                                        • 01-20-06
                                        • 819

                                        #54
                                        The banks dont know what the hell is going on.

                                        Some are scared, some could care less.

                                        If it went through JP MOrgan/Chase - many wires do, that bank is ****ing terrified.

                                        Bottom line - don't use US dollars.

                                        Sean
                                        Comment
                                        • NeedProtection
                                          SBR High Roller
                                          • 02-25-07
                                          • 113

                                          #55
                                          WHAT SPORTSBOOK IS THIS???
                                          Comment
                                          • Halo
                                            SBR High Roller
                                            • 02-12-07
                                            • 172

                                            #56
                                            Originally posted by bigloser
                                            Amount was $10000, dont know if this may have triggered something but advice is to avoid ALL wires in $US
                                            All transactions of 10k+ must be reported to the internal revenue services (I think thats the correct office) and after that I'm sure they spread the word. If a bank teller also thinks something is up they can flag it and it will be reported too. In the future stager the funds between 8-9k.
                                            Comment
                                            • bigloser
                                              SBR Wise Guy
                                              • 07-19-06
                                              • 787

                                              #57
                                              Originally posted by NeedProtection
                                              Bigloser, which book was it?

                                              Am I the only person that finds this a major concern?
                                              Cant / wont say. Book is being helpful and dont want to jeopardise this. Will let you know how things workout.
                                              Comment
                                              • NeedProtection
                                                SBR High Roller
                                                • 02-25-07
                                                • 113

                                                #58
                                                Helpful with what? Your money is in the hands of the United States government - how in the hell is the sportsbook going to get it back? You think they are going to honor a bankwire that never hit their bank account?

                                                I am sorry you are out your money but this is a very big deal and you could help a lot of people by letting us know what sportsbook is under investigation right now.

                                                I cannot believe that no other posters are demanding an answer here.

                                                I must be the only one around here with a vested interest in knowing if a book is under investigation.

                                                I cannot believe you have this information and won't divulge it and I cannot believe there hasn't been a public outcry demanding the information.

                                                You could of left the part about the sportsbook out of this and still warned everyone if you weren't going to name the book.

                                                This is the biggest story since the neteller arrests and I am the only person that gives a shit.

                                                Good job forum community

                                                Comment
                                                • bigloser
                                                  SBR Wise Guy
                                                  • 07-19-06
                                                  • 787

                                                  #59
                                                  Its $10000 and I wont jeopardise this for you.
                                                  Comment
                                                  • NeedProtection
                                                    SBR High Roller
                                                    • 02-25-07
                                                    • 113

                                                    #60
                                                    Originally posted by bigloser
                                                    Its $10000 and I wont jeopardise this for you.
                                                    This is not for me, this is so that every single person out there that bets wont get stiffed.

                                                    Do you really think this sportsbook is going to just give you 10k? Are you on drugs? Seriously - what twisted universe do you live in whereby your 10k is sent to a book, it gets confiscated before arriving at the book by the DOJ, and the book (under investigation) gives you the 10k?

                                                    How do they verify the DOJ has it? DO they call the FBI and say we are sportsbook xyz, do you have BigIdiots 10k?

                                                    You should be banned from this forum for not listing the book in my opinion. So many people in jeapardy and for no reason. You aren't going to find a book to just donate 10k to you because they value you as a customer.

                                                    THIS WILL NOT HAPPEN.
                                                    Comment
                                                    • increasedodds
                                                      SBR Wise Guy
                                                      • 01-20-06
                                                      • 819

                                                      #61
                                                      It would surprise me very much if a bank wire was seized. There is no law to allow seizure of bank wires even if used to fund gambling. Neither you nor the book has been arrested or indicted.

                                                      The neteller funds were seized after arrests made..

                                                      It is illegal and unconstitutional to seize money with no reason.

                                                      In this time when books are hurting, it would not surprise me if the book has the money.

                                                      I once had a book tell me a wire did not make it. It took my bank 6 weeks to prove to them it did.

                                                      I've heard of wires being blocked and returned to sender, but have never heard of one being seized. It is very very unlikely that out of the 10000+ forum users on various sites, you had the only seized wire.

                                                      My guess is the book intentionally or unintentionally is simply wrong. They may have received the money. Your bank may have wired it the wrong place. I promise you the FBI did not call them and say - hey guys we are investigating you and seized a wire. Have your bank trace the wire and find out where it went. It will take 3-4 weeks...

                                                      Sean
                                                      Comment
                                                      • NeedProtection
                                                        SBR High Roller
                                                        • 02-25-07
                                                        • 113

                                                        #62
                                                        Increase, why would this poster lie?

                                                        I am not sure what amazes me more: the lack of outcry for this guy BigLoser to name the book from the posters here, the fact that BigLoser thinks some book is going to give him his 10k back out of charity, or the the fact that we are all looking at future potential calamaties that he couldn't care less about.

                                                        He doesn't care that we could all get stiffed or worse. He knows the book. What harm is there in naming it?


                                                        I personally think it is a very, very, very scummy thing to do. We will look to him if disaster strikes. When this happens, he will still be out his 10k and we will all be out a lot more.

                                                        What kind of person thinks a business is going to reimburse him for 10k they never received? Especially a book that is under investigation?

                                                        Is this guy for real?
                                                        Comment
                                                        • vanzack
                                                          SBR Sharp
                                                          • 12-16-06
                                                          • 478

                                                          #63
                                                          Originally posted by NeedProtection
                                                          Increase, why would this poster lie?

                                                          I am not sure what amazes me more: the lack of outcry for this guy BigLoser to name the book from the posters here, the fact that BigLoser thinks some book is going to give him his 10k back out of charity, or the the fact that we are all looking at future potential calamaties that he couldn't care less about.

                                                          He doesn't care that we could all get stiffed or worse. He knows the book. What harm is there in naming it?


                                                          I personally think it is a very, very, very scummy thing to do. We will look to him if disaster strikes. When this happens, he will still be out his 10k and we will all be out a lot more.

                                                          What kind of person thinks a business is going to reimburse him for 10k they never received? Especially a book that is under investigation?

                                                          Is this guy for real?

                                                          I have a suggestion for you.

                                                          Go on with your life as if you never saw this thread.

                                                          He's not going to tell you, and if you pretend you never saw this thread your happiness meter will go through the roof. You have posted several rants about how incredibly unjust and massively unfair the poster is, and he hasnt budged.

                                                          I think you are fighting a losing battle. Go pour yourself a glass of chardonnay, run a bubble bath, light some candles, put on some John Tesh, and get in touch with your inner peace.
                                                          Comment
                                                          • sportsfanatic
                                                            SBR MVP
                                                            • 03-10-07
                                                            • 3967

                                                            #64
                                                            bigloser, I know you don't like answering questions. Getting you to answer questions seems to be extremely tough. Considering your post, IF TRUE, I'm assuming it is - is one of the most interesting stories I've read in a while. I'm hoping you can answer one simple question, that I can't imagine could hurt you in any way.

                                                            Are you a British citizen?

                                                            That's all. Yes or no. Why? Because I find it extremely disturbing that a British citizen's wire can be intercepted by the US government simply because you are trying to transact in US dollars. Very, very disturbing.

                                                            This coupled with Neteller's inability to write U.S. currency cheques suggests to me a pattern is forming regarding U.S. currency.
                                                            Comment
                                                            • ShamsWoof10
                                                              SBR MVP
                                                              • 11-15-06
                                                              • 4827

                                                              #65
                                                              I know this is going to sound absurd but there is a good chance they are using internet gambling as a front to enforce currency control in the US... I have been expecting this to happen for a few years but nothing yet... I DO KNOW FOR A FACT the AMERO is coming and this could also be a small element towards that step... I am GUESSING the AMERO will debut after the dollar drops to a certain low..but don't know...

                                                              just a thought
                                                              Comment
                                                              • sportsfanatic
                                                                SBR MVP
                                                                • 03-10-07
                                                                • 3967

                                                                #66
                                                                Originally posted by ShamsWoof10
                                                                I know this is going to sound absurd but there is a good chance they are using internet gambling as a front to enforce currency control in the US... I have been expecting this to happen for a few years but nothing yet... I DO KNOW FOR A FACT the AMERO is coming and this could also be a small element towards that step... I am GUESSING the AMERO will debut after the dollar drops to a certain low..but don't know...

                                                                just a thought
                                                                Huh? <confused shrug>
                                                                Comment
                                                                • ShamsWoof10
                                                                  SBR MVP
                                                                  • 11-15-06
                                                                  • 4827

                                                                  #67
                                                                  Currency control is where they do not allow US dollar in or out of the country.. Since the US Dollar is a reserve currency the rest of the world uses it so I believe they are going to implament currency control and have two types of dollars.. The Greenback and The Redback... The Redback will have a dark tint to it so you can tell the differance and it will be used internationally while The Greenback will be used domestically not not allowed in or out...

                                                                  I have read that within the last couple of years the Fed. Reserve have printed The Redback and have already distributed it or are still for later use... Not sure how true this is but we'll see... Agaain just a thought
                                                                  Comment
                                                                  • Ganchrow
                                                                    SBR Hall of Famer
                                                                    • 08-28-05
                                                                    • 5011

                                                                    #68
                                                                    Originally posted by ShamsWoof10
                                                                    Currency control is where they do not allow US dollar in or out of the country.. Since the US Dollar is a reserve currency the rest of the world uses it so I believe they are going to implament currency control and have two types of dollars.. The Greenback and The Redback... The Redback will have a dark tint to it so you can tell the differance and it will be used internationally while The Greenback will be used domestically not not allowed in or out...

                                                                    I have read that within the last couple of years the Fed. Reserve have printed The Redback and have already distributed it or are still for later use... Not sure how true this is but we'll see... Agaain just a thought
                                                                    This stinks of monomaniacal conspiratorial spunk. I'd be rather curious to see a single account of this in from any reputable journalistic source.

                                                                    Even if this were proven to be at all true, I'd go out on a limb and opine that its motives are far less nefarious than some (especially those coincidentally lacking any nontrivial understanding of ecomic theory) would have us believe.

                                                                    And besides, at the last Illuminati meeting we decided we wouldn't bring down the US economy until after we loosed our android army hordes.
                                                                    Comment
                                                                    • increasedodds
                                                                      SBR Wise Guy
                                                                      • 01-20-06
                                                                      • 819

                                                                      #69
                                                                      I did not say the poster lied.

                                                                      I said it is likely the book has lied - either intentionally or unintentionally.

                                                                      If the FBI seizes a wire, they don't call you and tell you they are investigating...

                                                                      Most likely the wire was sent the wrong place, got stuck and bounced back, or was not sent.

                                                                      Sean
                                                                      Comment
                                                                      • bigloser
                                                                        SBR Wise Guy
                                                                        • 07-19-06
                                                                        • 787

                                                                        #70
                                                                        Originally posted by sportsfanatic
                                                                        .

                                                                        Are you a British citizen?
                                                                        Yes British Citizen and not resident in the US. Only visit to US in last 5 years was 5 days in Vegas for New Year 2006/7.
                                                                        Comment
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