Avoid Bank Wires at all costs

bigloser · 02-22-07, 03:48 PM

Amount was $10000, dont know if this may have triggered something but advice is to avoid ALL wires in $US

Korchnoi · 02-22-07, 03:50 PM

the world is ending. this is nuts. like watching a movie.

goldengoat · 02-22-07, 04:06 PM

this is ****ing gay bullshit

home of the free????? bullshit!!!!

vanzack · 02-22-07, 04:18 PM

Please keep us updated.

This is obviously very important.

increasedodds · 02-22-07, 04:42 PM

JP Morgan Chase blocked a bank wire to me as well, but returned the funds to the sender. They then sent it again with a different intermediary with no problem.

The bottom line is this. Bank in a more favorable climate. I've yet to have one issue at all since deciding to bank in a nicer place.

Sean

pags11 · 02-22-07, 04:47 PM

this is the first I've heard of something like this...definitely not good...

BigDog · 02-22-07, 05:12 PM

Damn-it,I'm waiting on 2 bank wires now!

SBR_John · 02-22-07, 07:49 PM

WTF?!

Why?

bigloser · 02-22-07, 09:39 PM

HSBC advise me that all $US transactions will go through the US. That this is the same for all banks. $US stay in the US, everything at banks outside US in $US are "just accounting entries".
The money was sent from HSBC UK it then had to go to HSBC US (a subsidiary of HSBC) then to JP Morgan Chase then to the recipients bank outside the US. It doesnt matter where your bank is domiciled if the transaction is in $US.
I sent 3 transfers on the same day. $3000 to Tradesports got there no problem. $10000 to Neteller went AWOL as did the $10000 mentioned above.
Both Neteller and the book above are being very responsive to my discussions and I am hopeful things will end OK.
Will not be sending any more $ payments though. Will change everything to sterling.

Wild Reet · 02-22-07, 10:10 PM

I would keep wires and checks under $5000, money orders from MSBs under $3000, and WUs under $2000. These are the SAR thresholds.

Don't do more than one or two a month. This is to avoid the appearance of structuring or other so-called suspicious activity.

bigloser · 02-22-07, 10:36 PM

I wouldnt send anything at all. Its nothing to do with reporting

Dark Horse · 02-22-07, 10:43 PM

Use cashier checks and Fedex.

Stay under the radar.

vanzack · 02-22-07, 10:44 PM

Wait a minute. This is so confusing.

Are you in the UK? I read your post (#10 in this thread) 5 times and I cant make sense of it.

Where are you, where did you try to initiate the bank wire, and where was it going?

Try to explain in clear english, unless I am the only one it is very hard to understand what happened here.

bigloser · 02-22-07, 10:45 PM

Its over for $US gamblers unless the law is repealed.

bigloser · 02-22-07, 10:46 PM

Although the banks are pissed at the moment. They hate this law. Wonder how much lobbying power they have ?

vanzack · 02-22-07, 10:49 PM

Where are you, where did you try to initiate the bank wire, and where was it going?

bigloser · 02-22-07, 10:53 PM

Originally posted by vanzack

Wait a minute. This is so confusing.

Are you in the UK? I read your post (#10 in this thread) 5 times and I cant make sense of it.

Where are you, where did you try to initiate the bank wire, and where was it going?

Try to explain in clear english, unless I am the only one it is very hard to understand what happened here.

Went from UK through US and was supposed to end up in a 3rd country. There was no need, or so I thought it , that it should go through US. My transfer was from the UK bank to the books offshore account. My bank and the books bank both use agent banks in the US to process the transaction. It just so happens that in HSBCs case the agent was another HSBC subsidiary. The books bank used a none related US agent.
Money was snatched at the books banks US agent

bigloser · 02-22-07, 10:54 PM

Originally posted by vanzack

Where are you, where did you try to initiate the bank wire, and where was it going?

**** you

bigloser · 02-22-07, 10:54 PM

Thats my last post in this thread arsehole

vanzack · 02-22-07, 10:56 PM

Originally posted by bigloser

Went from UK through US and was supposed to end up in a 3rd country. There was no need, or so I thought it , that it should go through US. My transfer was from the UK bank to the books offshore account. My bank and the books bank both use agent banks in the US to process the transaction. It just so happens that in HSBCs case the agent was another HSBC subsidiary. The books bank used a none related US agent.
Money was snatched at the books banks US agent

Cliff notes:

You are in the UK. You sent money to a book in USD. The wire was routed through a US bank where it was confiscated.

Questions:

1. Why did you send USD if you are in the UK?
2. What did your lawyer say about the jurisdiction of a US bank with regards to a British citizens money?

vanzack · 02-22-07, 10:58 PM

Originally posted by bigloser

Thats my last post in this thread arsehole

Huh? Why am I an "arsehole"?

I meant no harm by what I wrote. I was simply asking a question that I thought you overlooked.

Sorry if you took it the wrong way.

Santo · 02-22-07, 11:01 PM

I can answer 1: Many offshores don't support currencies other than USD (or didn't use to), so it was neccesary to keep the Neteller account in USD to avoid paying exchange fees on every transfer.

bigloser · 02-22-07, 11:01 PM

Its not what you wrote it was that you felt it necessary to shout while I was responding to other points in the thread.

I will take that as a genuine apology and respond to your questions

vanzack · 02-22-07, 11:04 PM

Originally posted by Santo

I can answer 1: Many offshores don't support currencies other than USD (or didn't use to), so it was neccesary to keep the Neteller account in USD to avoid paying exchange fees on every transfer.

Got ya.

Thanks.

Im just shocked that the US has the jurisdiction to do this. If so, there are tons of reasons why the US could confiscate a wire transfer from one overseas business to another.

Legal pot bar in amsterdam sends a payment to their supplier in Spain in USD. The US can confiscate that?

Here you have one law abiding citizen in a sovereign nation sending funds to another law abiding business in a sovereign nation. Does the fact that it is in USD's make it the US jurisdiction?

This is crazy....

vanzack · 02-22-07, 11:05 PM

Originally posted by bigloser

Its not what you wrote it was that you felt it necessary to shout while I was responding to other points in the thread.

I will take that as a genuine apology and respond to your questions

Im truly sorry. I didnt realize I was "shouting".

I simply saw that you commented on other things but did not answer that question and I thought it was because it was buried in my post and you missed it.

No problems.

bigloser · 02-22-07, 11:08 PM

1) I have a $US bank account in UK to fund offshore accounts and Neteller. This avoids exchange charges. Most European books offer a choice of currencies, unfortunately Caribean etc books do not.

2) My Lawyer says that for as long as Neteller is under investigation I can forget getting my money back from the US, this is a more optimistic interpretation than the solicitor at JP Morgan who thinks I should say goodbye to the money.
Both advise that when the money reaches the US it becomes the recipients, it looks as if I will be successful in that argument in both cases. BUT as mentioned in another thread, this has implications on transfers Neteller has made to others as technically when it reaches the US Neteller have paid YOU. It is your money that has been conficated.

vanzack · 02-22-07, 11:12 PM

Originally posted by bigloser

1) I have a $US bank account in UK to fund offshore accounts and Neteller. This avoids exchange charges. Most European books offer a choice of currencies, unfortunately Caribean etc books do not.

2) My Lawyer says that for as long as Neteller is under investigation I can forget getting my money back from the US, this is a more optimistic interpretation than the solicitor at JP Morgan who thinks I should say goodbye to the money.
Both advise that when the money reaches the US it becomes the recipients, it looks as if I will be successful in that argument in both cases. BUT as mentioned in another thread, this has implications on transfers Neteller has made to others as technically when it reaches the US Neteller have paid YOU. It is your money that has been conficated.

This really concerns me.

Many Americans have considered setting up offshore bank accounts (which is totally legal if reported to IRS) as a solution to all of these banking issues. Afterall, it would be a wire transfer from the Bank of the Caribbean to a sportsbooks bank.

But now this experience for you opens up a whole new can of worms in that the transfer I describe above would go through the US and could be confiscated.

Every day this shit gets more and more unbelievable.

Do you feel your wire was confiscated because it was sent to neteller SPECIFICALLY?

I hope this works out for you. I cannot believe that you are in another ****ing country and this is effecting you. That is hard to believe.

GPC · 02-22-07, 11:14 PM

You might be able to get some more information on exactly where your money is if you call the Chase wires desk (866-223-0359). I have found in the past that they generally will speak to non customers provided you can identify yourself as the originator of the transfer. To do this you will need the Fedwire IMAD (Input Message Accountability Date) number. You should be able to get this from your bank (they will have to ask Chase for this via Swift).

Good luck.

bigloser · 02-22-07, 11:53 PM

Originally posted by vanzack

This really concerns me.

Many Americans have considered setting up offshore bank accounts (which is totally legal if reported to IRS) as a solution to all of these banking issues.

The issue is that it is a $US account and the US controls the currency. Set up an offshore account in another currency, (id go sterling) and things will be OK. If the books that you play with are $US only then you will pay exchange charges but these will still probably be less than some of the exotic options being mentioned.

bigloser · 02-22-07, 11:55 PM

Originally posted by GPC

You might be able to get some more information on exactly where your money is if you call the Chase wires desk (866-223-0359). I have found in the past that they generally will speak to non customers provided you can identify yourself as the originator of the transfer. To do this you will need the Fedwire IMAD (Input Message Accountability Date) number. You should be able to get this from your bank (they will have to ask Chase for this via Swift).

Good luck.

Chase have been fine. I didnt need to call them they called me. The money has been seized by the US govt , that is where it is.
I dont blame the banks (or Neteller ).

jjgold · 02-23-07, 07:22 AM

I agree with Darker here

Zerlinco · 02-23-07, 07:36 AM

More and more the Locals are becoming more real. Back to the past seems more like a sure bet.

BigDog · 02-23-07, 08:11 AM

I recieved one of my bank wires this morning for $2000...it took 3 days from request to arrive @ bank

Lucas · 02-23-07, 09:24 AM

I am afraid that this http://forum.sbrforum.com/players-ta...people-us.html was not total bullshit.