Is health care a right or a luxury?

[13th Inning]

Incorrect, in Canada healthcare is provided because it is a right, and the right thing to do.

No, it's provided because they want to provide it. It still doesn't mean there is a fundamental 'right' to it.

On the other hand, we all do have the right to use the metric system.

[betplom]

If the Canadian Gov't took 'free' health care away would it still be a RIGHT?

They cannot take it away, no sane Canadian politician would dare suggest it so your question is based on speculation of a fictional occurrence.

[fiveteamer]

It's not free motherfukker, we all pay for it.

I'd rather my taxes go to helping feed, house, and keep my fellow men and women healthy rather than spending endless tax dollars on wars that do nothing other than promote Hegemony.

[oiler]

Interesting points, also I didnt mean to imply the insurance was truly free I just meant free to the minor (or his parents as they would normally pay for it).

How much exactly should the govt "provide" for its citizens is the question on everyone's minds though.

Should we guarantee every citizen food, housing, health insurance, a car, gas money, etc. just bc they are US citizens, you have to understand betplom there is a limit to how much the govt can reasonably provide even though the US is currently still prosperous.

I have a car bc I saved the money and purchased it, am I any better than the guy in the projects who cant afford a car, no, but he needs a car just like I do to get places (assuming public transport isnt an option where he lives) so should the govt pay for his car and gas money, then at what point does the govt provide so much that no one wants to work for anything?

there is a key word here right ;is it a right for everyone to have insurance.i would say no but it is a neccessity

[Sam Odom]

They cannot take it away, no sane Canadian politician would dare suggest it so your question is based on speculation of a fictional occurrence.

If the Gov't gave you this Right then they can take it away.

[fiveteamer]

The Government didn't GIVE it.

We DEMANDED it.

[oiler]

It's not free motherfukker, we all pay for it.

I'd rather my taxes go to helping feed, house, and keep my fellow men and women healthy rather than spending endless tax dollars on wars that do nothing other than promote Hegemony.

this war is the dumbest thing bush ever did.and he did alot of dumb things.if we took all this money we gave to these other countries to fix them back up after we destroyed them,we wouldnt be in this situation,

[betplom]

If the Gov't gave you this Right then they can take it away.

While possible its not likely, taking away rights seems to be more of an American phenomenon than a Canadian one.

At least Canadians have the right to healthcare at this point in time, Americans don't have this right so it cannot be taken away from them.

[bettilimbroke999]

Free food, free housing, free health insurance, hmm I wonder if any probs could result from this

[fiveteamer]

There is a simple fact of life that people need to come to grips with.

And that is, they will be taxed. They will be taxed, probably heavily, until the day they die.

I don't even look at my gross pay, I have no idea what it is. I've accepted that this has ALWAYS been the case, and will continue to be the case.

So, once you've dealt with that little fact, you need to ask yourself what you think those tax dollars should be spent on.

I think we are all in agreement that we need infrastructure such as roads, sidewalks, parks, public transit, airports etc etc...

What else should your tax dollars go to?

Why do people not scream and shout at town hall meetings about why some of the hard earned dollars they send to the government ends up in the hands of arms dealers to be used on innocent people to maim and kill them in other countries?

Why does this not upset people?

Why does trying to make sure that 100% of the American population, the wealthiest nation, and, apparently, the most fortunate group of people in the world, should have all the access to the health care that they need in order to live a full and rich life.

Not sure I'll ever understand why other people can't understand.

[oiler]

There is a simple fact of life that people need to come to grips with.

And that is, they will be taxed. They will be taxed, probably heavily, until the day they die.

I don't even look at my gross pay, I have no idea what it is. I've accepted that this has ALWAYS been the case, and will continue to be the case.

So, once you've dealt with that little fact, you need to ask yourself what you think those tax dollars should be spent on.

I think we are all in agreement that we need infrastructure such as roads, sidewalks, parks, public transit, airports etc etc...

What else should your tax dollars go to?

Why do people not scream and shout at town hall meetings about why some of the hard earned dollars they send to the government ends up in the hands of arms dealers to be used on innocent people to maim and kill them in other countries?

Why does this not upset people?

Why does trying to make sure that 100% of the American population, the wealthiest nation, and, apparently, the most fortunate group of people in the world, should have all the access to the health care that they need in order to live a full and rich life.

Not sure I'll ever understand why other people can't understand.

before i got sick it bother me alittle but once all this shit happened,i got alot of other things to worry about besides taxes

[betplom]

Not sure I'll ever understand why other people can't understand.

This statement confirms your citizenship, you wouldn't need your passport to confirm you are 100% Canadian.

Fiver, I and the vast majority of Canadians feel the same way as you do regarding healthcare.

The difference between Canada and the USA regarding this issue is the fact that Americans are looking for change while we are content with our system.

[Doc JS]

If it is a "right" from where does this right come?

Excellent question, Sam.

I just re-read the Bill of Rights for the first time in a long time and I can see no mention of my having a "right" to health care. http://www.constitution.org/billofr_.htm

Surely if I had this "right" the government would have written it down somewhere, wouldn't they?

Doc

[betplom]

Excellent question, Sam.

I just re-read the Bill of Rights for the first time in a long time and I can see no mention of my having a "right" to health care. http://www.constitution.org/billofr_.htm

Surely if I had this "right" the government would have written it down somewhere, wouldn't they?

Doc

It isn't a right in the USA, but it certainly is in Canada.

We also have the right to play at Pinnacle, something the citizens of the self proclaimed freest nation on the planet cannot do.

[bettilimbroke999]

We got the poor populations growing at a much more rapid rate than the wealthy, Mexicans have all but taken over the Southwest, blacks the big cities and both groups have no money but have 6x the birth rate of the whites on top of the Mexicans all jumpin the fence and having their newly American kids here, by the way how can you illegally enter a country then have a kid and have the kid be a legal citizen what a fuked up rule, it just means if you're a pregnant Mexican drag that fat whore over the border to have her baby and we'll arrest her but the baby can stay and suck the welfare system dry

[capitalist pig]

Its not a right or a luxury, its a service you pay for. Nobody (govt) owes anyone anything in the USA, lots of people dont seem to realize that, and thats the major problem with society today. Too many people looking for govt handouts,JMO.

later

[Enogsiwon]

Anyone that thinks it's a right is an idiot!! If you can't afford a child dont have a kid,.. Pretty fu@&ing simple.. The poor people pumping out kids like pinky mice are what ruined this country..They should be shot.. I get banned and have to come back to read this crap..

Everyone that votes "right" should be banned from this site for a week..

King

[betplom]

Everyone that votes "right" should be banned from this site for a week..

King

Voting should not be a right, it should be a privilege reserved only for rich people, those of us that are not rich are simply here for the benefit of the rich - we are their servants.

[oiler]

Anyone that thinks it's a right is an idiot!! If you can't afford a child dont have a kid,.. Pretty fu@&ing simple.. The poor people pumping out kids like pinky mice are what ruined this country..They should be shot.. I get banned and have to come back to read this crap..

Everyone that votes "right" should be banned from this site for a week..

King

im just making an observation and this is not intended to anyone in particular.before i got sick everyone said at least you got your health and then later on when i got the cancer and all the other things that came with it,it made me think wow glad i have insurance,as much as i want to say it is a right,i cant,it may not be a right but damnit it is essential in peoples lives,alot of people who responded apparently has had a long illness where they where hospitalized for a period of time or seeing a variety of doctors 3or 4 times a week.but when u get there ,then u will know what im talking about,i treid to get the state to help with some of my medicines cause it cost me 1000 a month but they said if i had a baby out of wedlock or was a drug or alcohol abuser they would help me,but since ive done evrything right [the way i was raised]they said they couldnt do nothing for me

[bettilimbroke999]

Voting should not be a right, it should be a privilege reserved only for rich people, those of us that are not rich are simply here for the benefit of the rich - we are their servants.

Sad but true, the poor mostly exist to serve the rich, think about the only reason you work is for money if you already have tons of money you dont need to work

This is the nature of capitalism betplom, pure capitalism is basically what the animals practice

[betplom]

Sad but true, the poor mostly exist to serve the rich, think about the only reason you work is for money if you already have tons of money you dont need to work

This is the nature of capitalism betplom, pure capitalism is basically what the animals practice

Right, pure Capitalism works extremely well for those at the top of the food chain (the super rich)- it is likely the source of misery for those at the bottom of it.

Capitalism is useful, but left unchecked it can cause problems, they key is moderation, socialism has a place in most industrialized nations as well. A balance between the two ideologies seems ideal.

[Enogsiwon]

You know what right you have...

You have the right to work hard, keep your nose clean, and become rich!!

The Poor are poor because of themselves and their parents.. It's up to you poor losers to stop the cycle.. I don't have much money but I sure as hell ain't gonna blame the rich..

You brainwashed idiots should be shot so we can start over..

Maybe then we'll have a chance

[losturmarbles]

Right, pure Capitalism works extremely well for those at the top of the food chain (the super rich)- it is likely the source of misery for those at the bottom of it.

Capitalism is useful, but left unchecked it can cause problems, they key is moderation, socialism has a place in most industrialized nations as well. A balance between the two ideologies seems ideal.

bullshit, complete utter bullshit.

[losturmarbles]

health care is for everyone is only 1 side of the equation. Cost is the other side of the equation. No one have talked about fixing the cost. You can't fix one side without fixing the other side. Why are American pharmaceutical companies willing to sell the meds to Canada at a lower price than they do in the US? Why is the FDA not allowing meds from other countries to come to the US to foster competition? This whole thing STINKs to high heaven.

Democrats solutions is always more taxes to pay for the social programs. Republicans solution is "who give the sh!t, you can't pay? you die." At the EOD, you can't touch these monstrous companies because they have paid off the government to leave them alone to charge whatever they want.

To the Dems, everything is a right; except the right to bare arms.

sorry i lost all my points, but that deserves 1.

[losturmarbles]

[losturmarbles]

If it is a "right" from where does this right come?

anyone going to answer this man?

[betplom]

bullshit, complete utter bullshit.

How well would America function if everyone were rich?

A: It probably wouldn't, who the fukk would there be to do the work if everyone has gobs of cash?

A purely capitalistic society resembles a pyramid scheme in that a relatively few number of people (at the top of the pyramid) enjoy most of the benefits of capitalism while those at the bottom toil in poverty, these same poor people are then brainwashed to believe they too can become rich if they work hard and have faith they too will be rich and can exploit those less fortunate.

Bullshit? I think not. Too many Americans are simply sheep that are easily convinced by the propaganda floating around the country.

Capitalism would grind to a halt if everyone were rich.

Capitalism needs the poor to perpetuate the system, without poor people for the lower level of the pyramid the top cannot enjoy their position at the top.

[fiveteamer]

anyone going to answer this man?

It is a HUMAN RIGHTS issue.

You do not need motherfukking Abe Lincoln to have written something down on a piece of paper 300 years ago for it to be considered a right.

[bettilimbroke999]

You know what right you have...

You have the right to work hard, keep your nose clean, and become rich!!

The Poor are poor because of themselves and their parents.. It's up to you poor losers to stop the cycle.. I don't have much money but I sure as hell ain't gonna blame the rich..

You brainwashed idiots should be shot so we can start over..

Maybe then we'll have a chance

Okay so we have several votes for socialized health care, several against it and a couple posters wanting to shoot the poor, clearly there's mixed opinions on this topic which is prolly why I'm hearing about it everyday in the media. Never seen a more talked about and more polarizing domestic issue yet, I wonder how the Canadians came to agree on it, are they just a more socialized culture and the US more capitalist so there was less resistance or is this just a bad idea and Americans are trying to avoid a disaster that the Canadians are oblivous to?

[losturmarbles]

How well would America function if everyone were rich?

A: It probably wouldn't, who the fukk would there be to do the work if everyone has gobs of cash?

A purely capitalistic society resembles a pyramid scheme in that a relatively few number of people (at the top of the pyramid) enjoy most of the benefits of capitalism while those at the bottom toil in poverty, these same poor people are then brainwashed to believe they too can become rich if they work hard and have faith they too will be rich and can exploit those less fortunate.

Bullshit? I think not. Too many Americans are simply sheep that are easily convinced by the propaganda floating around the country.

Capitalism would grind to a halt if everyone were rich.

Capitalism needs the poor to perpetuate the system, without poor people for the lower level of the pyramid the top cannot enjoy their position at the top.

even more bullshit. capitalism rewards hard work and penalizes sloth while socialism rewards sloth and penalizes hard work. prospeirty always has and alway will come from capitalism.

the so called "less fortunate" (i love that term, like they just had bad luck ) are at the so called "bottom" because that is were they choose to be. it is/was their decision to not educate themselves, it is/was their idea to waste their time and money. socialism only keeps those who wish to pull themselves up from doing so.

btw the poor in this country rival the "fortunate" in most countries.

[Enogsiwon]

I can tell you this much.. Marbles will raise a man..

Betpolm and 5 will raise whiney little bitches..

If 5 Teamer was my dad I'd kill myself!!

[losturmarbles]

Donahue: When you see around the globe the mal-distribution of wealth, the desperate plight of millions of people in underdeveloped countries, when you see so few haves and so many have-nots, when you see the greed and the concentration of power, did you ever have a moment of doubt about capitalism and whether greed’s a good idea to run on?

Friedman: Well, first of all, tell me is there some society you know that doesn’t run on greed? You think Russia doesn’t run on greed? You think China doesn’t run on greed? What is greed? Of course none of us are greedy; its only the other fellow who’s greedy.
The world runs on individuals pursuing their separate interests. The great achievements of civilization have not come from government bureaus. Einstein didn’t construct his theory under order from a bureaucrat. Henry Ford didn’t revolutionize the automobile industry that way. In the only cases in which the masses have escaped from the kind of grinding poverty you’re talking about, the only cases in recorded history are where they have had capitalism and largely free trade. If you want to know where the masses are worst off, it’s exactly in the kinds of societies that depart from that. So that the record of history is absolutely crystal clear: that there is no alternative way so far discovered of improving the lot of the ordinary people that can hold a candle to the productive activities that are unleashed by a free enterprise system.

Donahue: But it seems to reward not virtue as much as ability to manipulate the system.

Friedman: And what does reward virtue? You think the communist commissar rewards virtue? You think a Hitler rewards virtue? You think – excuse me, if you will pardon me – do you think American presidents reward virtue? Do they choose their appointees on the basis of the virtue of the people appointed or on the basis of their political clout? Is it really true that political self interest is nobler somehow than economic self interest? You know I think you are taking a lot of things for granted. Just tell me where in the world you find these angels who are going to organize society for us? Well, I don’t even trust you to do that.

[bettilimbroke999]

even more bullshit. capitalism rewards hard work and penalizes sloth while socialism rewards sloth and penalizes hard work. prospeirty always has and alway will come from capitalism.

the so called "less fortunate" (i love that term, like they just had bad luck ) are at the so called "bottom" because that is were they choose to be. it is/was their decision to not educate themselves, it is/was their idea to waste their time and money. socialism only keeps those who wish to pull themselves up from doing so.

btw the poor in this country rival the "fortunate" in most countries.

So being born to a doctor and living your life at a country club is not luckier than bein born to a welfare mom in the projects

What would you call it skill?

[betplom]

even more bullshit. capitalism rewards hard work and penalizes sloth while socialism rewards sloth and penalizes hard work. prospeirty always has and alway will come from capitalism.

btw the poor in this country rival the "fortunate" in most countries.

I don't disagree with what you are saying, but you haven't addressed my claim that everyone cant be rich in a capitalistic system.

Capitalism serves a purpose and I'm not opposed to capitalism in moderation, but unrestricted capitalism merely allows those with the most money to basically run over those that have little.

If you were rich, would you work at McDonalds? The system would fail if everyone became wealthy, and it isn't even possible for everyone to become rich.

Like saying everyone makes money on the market or in sports betting.

[Enogsiwon]

Sounds like the welfare MOM is to blame.. Not the system..